When do the 2013 Denon's come out? Any new features we should expect? - Page 46

The rub though with that 1st switch you suggest (7974) is it doesn't have an analog output so you have to spend even more money on an optical--> analog converter. Also 5557 is not replaced by 7974, rather 7974 is simply a newer and similar model as they are different.

^^
Touché...glanced over them too quickly.

Just got the 2113ci shipped from Denon with free hat. Easy set up and everything is working great. I have not networked it yet but hopefully will get around to do so this weekend.

I like the onscreen menus, but I hate the display. I miss the speaker input graphic.

So far I like the new receiver.

Anyone heard anything more about dates for the 3313CI? My rep at local shop still has nothing...I've seen the one site that jd had linked mentioning an expected delivery around 6/18, but nothing else anywhere. =(

Still no user manual for the 3313 either...grumble grumble.

Good to hear a positive first report. Yes, the channel icons are an absolute must in my opinion. I love and am spoiled by them.

Well, I just came back from vacation and was pleased to discover that, in my absence, the 2113, 2313, and 3313 were announced. I've done my homework, and while I'm a little disappointed at the loss of PCM 2.0 to Zone 2, I think the 2113 meets my core needs just fine. That said, I have a bit more money allocated than that, and I think the 2313's more powerful amplifiers, Audyssey Pro capability, and additional inputs seem pretty worthwhile. Mostly I'm interested in the amps. I'd love to pony up for the 3313 and get even bigger amps, HD radio, and Zone 2 HDMI, but I just don't see it for the huge price jump.

Thanks everyone for your help and information! Now I just have to find the right deal. A little bird told me I should order by phone....

Just wanted to say thanks for all the info in this thread. It helped me decide to purchase a 4311 instead of a 3313.

Any word on the announcements on the 29th? Models or Bluray players? Who will be blogging the event?



Thanks

Bought a 1912 open box at best buy. Not bad, but I don't really don't need 7.1, 2nd zone or component inputs. From what what I hear, audissey Xt is a must, so I guess the 1713 is the receiver for me as I also want AirPlay and Internet radio (both a must).

Problem is that I cannot find a single store in Canada that carries that model. Best buy and future shop both cleared out their 1712s, but never received the 1713. They do have the 1613 and 1913 but no 1713. I have just over 3 weeks left to return my open box, hopefully it gets released here before then. BB does have the 2112ci but quite expensive still at $629!

The 1713's release day is a month after the 1613 and 1913. Since the later is just hitting stores now, it will probably be a bit before the 1713 is out.

BTW the 1712 was a Futureshop exclusive in Canada.

Futureshop still has the 1712 but you have to get them to check the store stock from other stores and have it brought in. It is still available in Saskatchewan.

Yeah, but I need the network features, so prefer the 1713. I will just wait and see. Is audissey XT really that much better than regular Audissey? Is it worth downgrading from a 1912?

Yes, XT is worth the price of admission in my opinion. This is not to say MultEQ isn't good, after all, it is GREAT! But XT is that much better.

http://www.avland.co.uk/aasp/denon/1...0/avr-4520.asp

What the 4520 should be like. Personally, I'd grab the 4311 if I was in the market.

^^
My guess is they're missing some features as this is nothing more than the new 3313CI features pasted into the 4311CI features.

^^^

safe to say that's a good guess, as they start by saying "9.1 receiver"...

That picture is the 4520 though as you can read the model # on the front. I prefer the styling of the 4311 though. Denon went away from the square look with the 08 series, which I thought was a major improvement in the looks department and now they have gone back to it.

If you have the 4311 already, there's no compelling reason to upgrade to the 4520 unless you're dying for 4K conversion/passthrough or want to experiment with Denon Link HD. And with multiple subs, the 4311 represents better 'one-stop' shopping than the Onkyo 818 for reliable, real-world use (e.g. if you don't have a 4K/2K projector).

OTOH, if Audyssey improved the Audyssey XT32 algorithm to optimize its filter-based corrections with more sensitivity than 1/6 octave smoothing, and incorporated sub distance adjustments to better calibrate FR dips at the crossover, with a more capable processor included in the 4520 to handle the overhead (or better use of a laptop's CPU with the Pro Kit), it's a different story.

I'm confused, are you implying that MultEQ only corrects at best in 1/6 octave bands? Because if so that's not even close to true (and not sure where you got that idea). First off it doesn't correct "bands" at all, XT32 for example has thousands (probably tens of thousands) of "taps" to shape the freq response. Even if you are talking about regular MultEQ which presumably has only several hundred taps, by definition that has to be much finer correction than 1/6 octave.

Batpig,
I should have been clearer: I was referring to the estimated correction, based on the Audyssey "after" curves, related to what's measured by independent measurement software/mic by an REW or OmniMic. Clearly MultiEQ is using a filter approach (what you call taps), and at a considerably more sophisticated level than 1/6 octave band control. I'm well aware that it's a different paradigm in room correction than simple parametric EQ.

However, I believe 1/6 octave smoothing is used for reporting the estimated response AFTER Audyssey. At least that's the chatter on the Pro thread. Not quite the same thing. As great as job as Audssey does, there's still room for improvement if you do independent measurement. Curves plotted at 1/12 or 1/24th smoothing have a higher resolution in exploring the results of Audyssey than the standard plot at approximately 1/6th smoothing, whether you're looking speaker by speaker, or for a combined response (e.g. mains & subs).

My point is that there's been a fair amount of talk on the Audyssey as well as the Audyssey Pro thread in the past few months, about using distance tweaks of the sub(s) around the splice/crossover point between mains and sub(s) to improve upon what Audyssey delivers. At least a few people (Craig Johns, Kbarnes, AustinJerry are the ones that come to mind, and I've done it as well) have used this 'trick' to account for crossover-area dips by at least partially smoothing out dips that show up in this region, using REW, OmniMic, XTZ etc. with curves plotted at 1/12 or 1/24th octave smoothing.

It would be 'nice' if Audyssey reported the curve plots at greater precision than the smoothing used in its curves, either at a speaker by speaker basis, or for selected 'interactions' like mains & subs, and could take any adjustments needed in sub distance into account with its algorithm. In other words, to better automate what needs to be done manually for the more perfectionists (OCD-focused LOL) among us. That's what I meant.

Normally I wouldn't mention something this technical on a thread like this, but since we're talking about potential new features.....it would be something that might make the 4520 more compelling. Rven if it's more like a nextgen Audyssey improvement than something that's directly in Denon's control as such. But if the 4520 is the new 'flagship', we can dream, anyway.....

Hopefully that make sense - and I'm not sticking my foot in my mouth on explaining what I'm talking about.

ok, that's what I thought, you are just referring to the graphs reported by the "pro kit". Just because the graphs are smoothed to 1/6 octave doesn't mean that's what the correction is doing though.


I'm aware of that and agree with it, it's just totally unrelated to the prior point. The former (1/6 octave thing) seems to be just a quirk of the graphs, the latter (improving the crossover splice) is a legitimate issue.

In the checklist on usa.denon.com, the 3313CI has...

... a "tick" next to HDMI SACD support

... a "yes (Denon Link HD) next to Denon Link

... a "dash" next to "HDCD Decoder" under Audio Modes.

What does the last one mean?
That the unit won't stream or play DSD over HDMI?
Something else?

^^^

it means exactly what it says... "hdcd" is an encoding format... it has nothing to do with dsd...

You're confusing SACD with HDCD which are two different things. So let's identify what each item means, although keep in mind that there are errors on the XX13 model spec pages, so until the Owner manuals are published we won't know for sure on the DSD support ....

- any model can accept SACD PCM over HDMI, however, this implies that the 3313CI can process DSD over HDMI

- uses Denon Link HD currently only with the new BDP-3313UD

- there is no HDCD support

I'm trying to ascertain what this means...

Does it affect CD/DVD/SACD/DVD-A/BluRay playback?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_De...atible_Digital

Seems to suggest it is primarily a Microsoft thing, so I'm thinking why would I care?

Is the issue only like to raise its ugly head if I try to play HDCD WMA files or similar?

It will NOT affect CD/DVD/SACD/DVD-A/BluRay....it will affect playback of HDCD shiny discs. A company called Pacific Microsonics developed this CD format in the 90's and was bought out by Microsoft sometime in the mid 2000's. The format never gained mass acceptance (like SACD) but there are still HDCD discs out there and a very very small number of new ones. HDCD discs are playable in a normal Red Book CD player...the sound quality benefit (which is marginal IMHO) only happens if the player or AVR has an HDCD decoder.
Most all of Joni Mitchell's albums were released in HDCD...Neil Young is another example. The OPPO players support HDCD, Denon 4xxx and 5xxx AVR's too. At one time Denon had it in the 3xxx AVR line but it was left off starting with the 3310 IIRC...

nah, it won't effect anything else...

the only issue i've ever come across with hdcd is if BOTH components in the chain have decoders... in which case, you want to use the one in the avr, as when decoding in the player (with an oppo, anyway), some of the hdcd metadata still exists in the decoded stream, and it causes issues...

I wonder if the matching SACD player will be crippled with only 16/44 over HDMI when playing back SACDs unless you use DL

I have changed my mind about the new design of the 4520 (vs my 3808) and think it looks very good and classy.

I am going to be interested in the 4520 and there is some info here.....http://www.whathifi.com/blog/valencia-streets-and-the-temple-of-ken-denon-marantz-and-boston-acoustics-re-invent-themselves

JKR,

Thanks for posting that link . Some very interesting news in it with quite a bit of information on the 4520. I like the looks of the 3313 and the 4520 as well. The piece that has my interest is the DBT-3313UD universal player with DL4. The fact that it is a fan less design is very interesting.

Bill