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When do the 2013 Denon's come out? Any new features we should expect? - Page 47

post #1381 of 1844
Quote:
Originally Posted by JKR1963 View Post

I have changed my mind about the new design of the 4520 (vs my 3808) and think it looks very good and classy.
I am going to be interested in the 4520 and there is some info here.....http://www.whathifi.com/blog/valencia-streets-and-the-temple-of-ken-denon-marantz-and-boston-acoustics-re-invent-themselves

Well, for those who scrutinize DACs, Denon appears to have upped the ante to 32 bit with the 4520CI, since it is reported to be the first AVR to incorporate Denon's AL32 processing.

AJ
post #1382 of 1844
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Mac View Post

JKR,
Thanks for posting that link smile.gif. Some very interesting news in it with quite a bit of information on the 4520. I like the looks of the 3313 and the 4520 as well. The piece that has my interest is the DBT-3313UD universal player with DL4. The fact that it is a fan less design is very interesting.
Bill

Comparing the 4520CI photo with the 3313CI photo on Denon's website, the front panels are virtually identical, with the height of the 4520CI appearing to be about 1/2" taller based on the button separation. Also note that the DBT-3313UD uses the newer DL HD jack (coax digital) only found on the Denon 3313CI and 4520CI models.
post #1383 of 1844
Quote:
Originally Posted by WiWavelength View Post

Well, for those who scrutinize DACs, Denon appears to have upped the ante to 32 bit with the 4520CI, since it is reported to be the first AVR to incorporate Denon's AL32 processing.
AJ

Better music through better math!
post #1384 of 1844
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

Comparing the 4520CI photo with the 3313CI photo on Denon's website, the front panels are virtually identical, with the height of the 4520CI appearing to be about 1/2" taller based on the button separation. Also note that the DBT-3313UD uses the newer DL HD jack (coax digital) only found on the Denon 3313CI and 4520CI models.

jd,

I did notice that the 4520 appears to look taller than the 3313. Chances are I'll go for the 4520 at the end of its model life when EE has them for under $1300 wink.gif. If the DBT-3313UD has DL4 with coax digital connection that is not compatible (adapter?) with the DL4 input on the 4311 I will of not be buying it. Do you have a link to the rear panel of the DBT-3313UD?
post #1385 of 1844
^^
Sorry no links to the DBT-3313UD, however, you can see what the jack looks like by viewing the back panel of the AVR-3313CI (see below). Also the new DL HD input is not compatible with DL4 and AFAIK, no adapter available for now at least, the DBT-3313UD will be able to "only" connect to the 3313CI and the 4520CI.

82
post #1386 of 1844
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

^^
Sorry no links to the DBT-3313UD, however, you can see what the jack looks like by viewing the back panel of the AVR-3313CI (see below). Also the new DL HD input is not compatible with DL4 and AFAIK, no adapter available for now at least, the DBT-3313UD will be able to "only" connect to the 3313CI and the 4520CI.
82

jd,

Thanks for posting the picture of the 3313. To be honest I'm at a loss for words as to why Denon would change the connector for DLHD rolleyes.gif. They just lost a sale of the DBT-3313UD because of that. I'm sure there might be a reason but it appears it is just so current Denon owners will upgrade to newer AVRs, prepros and BR players. That move could backfire as many might get fed up with that mindset from Denon.

Bill
post #1387 of 1844
The 4520 is easily an inch taller than 3313. Its the same height as the 4810 (195mm). I also like that has an ethernet hub and will offer apple iPhone and iPad control as well as android app. The power is rated at 150 x 9. But what do they mean...free amp assign???
Edited by 7channelfreak - 6/16/12 at 3:41pm
post #1388 of 1844
^^
Where are you seeing the back panel of the 4520CI? "Free Assign" is a feature of the 4810CI as noted in the image below:

365
post #1389 of 1844
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

^^
Where are you seeing the back panel of the 4520CI? "Free Assign" is a feature of the 4810CI as noted in the image below:
365



I just have a list of new products with selling features that I got from dealer. Not sure he was suppose to do that but....

No rear panel pics. Just one next to the 3313 and one showing each new model and the highlights of each new model.
post #1390 of 1844
"free assign" means you can assign ANY amp to ANY channel. As opposed to the standard amp assign you see on the 4311 -- where the "core" 5 channels are locked in and only the "extra" 4 amps are assignable -- the "free assign" that the 4810 had allowed assignment of any of the 9 amps.

the advantage is primarily for people running external amps for their main speakers, which then allows them to repurpose those "unused" amps to other rooms. For example, let's say you are using a 5ch amp to power your L/C/R and surround speakers, and you add wide + height speakers to run a 9ch DSX setup. Now you want to add power to a pair each of zone 2 + zone 3 speakers. With the 4311, the 5 internal amps that would have been used for L/C/R/SL/SR channels are "wasted", even though there are 5 unused channels since you have an external amp, you can't reassign them. The 4 amps that can be assigned are being used for wide + height speakers. However with the 4810, you could use "free assign" to change the FR, FL, SR, SL amps into powering Zone 2 + Zone 3.
post #1391 of 1844
Quote:
Originally Posted by 7channelfreak View Post

I just have a list of new products with selling features that I got from dealer. Not sure he was suppose to do that but....
No rear panel pics. Just one next to the 3313 and one showing each new model and the highlights of each new model.

Can you post the complete details list for the 4520 please? Thanks smile.gif
post #1392 of 1844
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Mac View Post

... To be honest I'm at a loss for words as to why Denon would change the connector for DLHD rolleyes.gif. They just lost a sale of the DBT-3313UD because of that. I'm sure there might be a reason but it appears it is just so current Denon owners will upgrade to newer AVRs, prepros and BR players. That move could backfire as many might get fed up with that mindset from Denon.Bill

Bill, I agree. The info dribbling out on the new DLHD is another reason I recommended a low $ buy-in on DL3 for music for your new 4311. We'll have to wait to find out if DLHD really offers any audible improvement over the current DL. Personally I am skeptical there's a whole lot more improvements to squeeze out of DL/jitter reduction. As some of you know I was skeptical about DL3, but found it worked for music. In contrast I see and hear no difference with DL4 vs plain ol HDMI for BluRay, but perhapsthat's exactly where DLHD will improve things- though BluRay seems preeety fine to me as is without DL.

As to the 4520, it is exciting to hear about the many new next-gen audio features as listed in the article linked above, such as 32 bit DACs, discrete amps, AL32 processing, improved streaming, etc. It is an attractive package and I'll be interested to find out how much sonic improvement that translates to, if any. Of course for me to retain the DL advantage with a 4520 requires purchasing a new DLHD model player. Geeze, a newly released hi-end AVR + newly relesed hi-end player? Plus $150 for another Pro license. Hmmm.... a bit daunting. Well, right now I'm quite satisfied with my Denon electronics (AVR A100/4311 and DBP A100/4010 connected via DL/CAT5).... but I'm getting some new speakers next week.biggrin.gif After that I'm considering acoustic room treatments.

So while my wallet recovers, it should give the early adopters of Denon's new high-end gear plenty of time to report on the SQ and for my upgradosis to flair up. wink.gif
post #1393 of 1844
Will they build a pre/pro of the 4520 with XLR connections?
post #1394 of 1844
^^
It would seem that will be covered by the new Marantz pre-pros.
post #1395 of 1844
^Yup, that's what the Denon/Marantz rep implied to me at the recent AudioKarma Fest.

I wonder if the 4520 has the same switching to Preamp Mode as the 4311 (disconnects the line level signal, but amps remain on at idle) that makes almost no difference sonically. It'd be interesting if they came up with something more effective, like switched connections from the amps to the power transformer, etc.
post #1396 of 1844
New speakers?! eek.gif didnt you just upgrade the whole setup to Dali ?
post #1397 of 1844
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

^^
It would seem that will be covered by the new Marantz pre-pros.

From the link earlier...
Quote:
Due later in the year is this heavyweight Marantz processor/preamp, the £1500 AV7701. This will have 6+1 HDMI inputs (the +1 being a front-panel hook-up), 2+1 HDMI outputs, and 7.2 channel XLR balanced audio outputs. It’s designed to be used with the existing MM7055 five-channel power amp, with which it's shown above, and MM7025 stereo unit.

Only 7.2 and I think only XT (not XT32)

Is there another?

I've not heard the Marantz line of AVRs but having owned some of Marantz stereo gear in the past, it had a tendency to sound overly warm and not to my liking. Are the AV series the same?

Plus there's no DenonLink on Marantz
post #1398 of 1844
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Mac View Post

jd,
Thanks for posting the picture of the 3313. To be honest I'm at a loss for words as to why Denon would change the connector for DLHD rolleyes.gif. They just lost a sale of the DBT-3313UD because of that. I'm sure there might be a reason but it appears it is just so current Denon owners will upgrade to newer AVRs, prepros and BR players. That move could backfire as many might get fed up with that mindset from Denon.
Bill

I don't think it's just the connector that was changed, I think it is the whole DenonLink philosophy. Basically DenonLink started out as a way of sending high-res digital audio over an interconnect (cat 5e/6) between a player and a receiver. Once DL 4 came around, HDMI was already sending out the high res codecs in digital form for BD. So, DL 4 became the DL - DL3 audio transfers (which works and sounds great) as well as this anti-jidder thing for BD audio, with the actual audio bits being sent over HDMI.

Suppose to lower the price points, instead of needing to transfer the music, DL-HD just sends the anti-jidder clock for all types of audio (SACD, DVD-Audio, BD, etc). All actual audio transfers are done over HDMI with no audio ever being sent out of DL-HD. DL-HD just sends a clock. Even the control signals can go out over HDMI (as in DL 4).

That would explain why only (what looks to be) an oversized RCA plug will now work where-as before you needed a high speed connection. It also would be completely incompatible with previous DL versions, which we are seeing. No adapter will ever work since the audio bits aren't included anymore.

For the record, this is all speculation based on what I've seen in photos and the little bit of text we have seen. But, it makes sense. It true, asking for backwards compatibility or even an adapter would be impossible. So if you want the old DL3 DVD-Audio/SACD functionality, then your only way to do that would be to find older (pre-13) units that are still available somewhere. From now on, HDMI sends the audio and DL-HD becomes a way of providing clock stability which may or may not be audible.
post #1399 of 1844
Andy - I think you are 100% right. Everything I've seen indicates that the new "model" for DL transfer will be to use HDMI for the data and DL will just supplement that with clock info.

I wonder what Denon's going to do with all that stock of $500 DL cables? tongue.gif
http://www.amazon.com/Denon-AKDL1-Dedicated-Link-Cable/dp/B000I1X6PM
post #1400 of 1844
Does anyone have a release date for the 4520 yet? I would love to get the real release date a pricing and full product information......it just does not seem to be forthcoming........must be patient I guess.
post #1401 of 1844
The 4520CI (MSRP $2500) is scheduled to be released after CEDIA (Sep 2012).
post #1402 of 1844
it's still way early, the "flagship" models don't usually appear until the fall, so I would anticipate a Sept/Oct release with full details forthcoming in August or so.
post #1403 of 1844
Quote:
Originally Posted by JKR1963 View Post

Does anyone have a release date for the 4520 yet? I would love to get the real release date a pricing and full product information......it just does not seem to be forthcoming........must be patient I guess.


Yep....showing the 4520 and the DBT-3313UDCI in September. The DBT1713UD in July.
post #1404 of 1844
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spizz View Post

Can you post the complete details list for the 4520 please? Thanks smile.gif

Sent you a PM
post #1405 of 1844
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

New speakers?! eek.gif didnt you just upgrade the whole setup to Dali ?

ROTFL. Yes, indeed, and the Dalis were certainly a HUGE upgrade sonically over the old Polks from Best Buy. biggrin.gif

I'm staying in the timbre-matched hi-end Dali family, just upgrading the FR/L floorstanders for my Stereo listening pleasure. I been wondering if there's much SQ improvement to be had by moving up into the stratosphere from my current Helicon 400 (MSRP $3.8K/pr) to the Euphonia MS4 (MSRP $12K /pr) and I just couldn't pass up a 75% off deal.
post #1406 of 1844
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundofMind View Post

We'll have to wait to find out if DLHD really offers any audible improvement over the current DL.
European Denon representative said, they managed to reduce jitter by another 10 %biggrin.gif. Also he said, that Denon Link HD will be easier to set up.

Mor information about it and some preliminary (?) 4520 specs are here: http://www.avforums.com/forums/video-productions/1646122-denon-marantz-boston-acoustics-launch-event-2012-a.html

Also European Denon representative said, that 4520 wil have 9 monoblocks. Is AVR-4311 amplifiers construction the same type?
post #1407 of 1844
the 4520 advertises: "150W x 9 Symmetrical Mono Amp construction".

the 4311ci product sheet advertises: "9 channels discrete Mono Amp construction"

I bet it's the same basic thing in terms of design philosophy, although the 4520 will have more power (bigger, heavier, 150W rating up from 140W on the 4311).
post #1408 of 1844
^^^

yea, almost certainly the same amplification design*, just backed with a more robust power supply... it'll be interesting to see what the number on the back of it says...

didn't watch vid... any "new" features? the audyssey trick bass thingie maybe?

* let's face it, there's not a lot of breakthroughs to be made when it comes to class a/b ss amplification...
post #1409 of 1844
I haven't seen the back panel but there are a couple of interesting changes separating it from the 4311:

- Physically it will be larger (4810 sized)
- More powerful amps
- "Free Assign" amp mode like the 4810
- AL32 processing and 32/192 DAC's
- Supports hi-rez network audio streams (192kHZ)
- SiriusXM and Spotify added to menu of network services (with Rhapsody + Napster deleted) like the xx13 models
- AirPlay can stream to other zones while watching a different source in Main Zone
- Built-in 4 port ethernnet hub (so you can take one ethernet connection and hardwire other components in the rack through the 4520)
- dts Neo:X (alternate 11ch processing to DSX)
- presumably Audyssey LFC
- 4k scaling

plus of course the HDMI matrix ability with the 3rd output. It looks like the 3rd HDMI out will be "Zone 4" like the 4810ci's optical output, meaning you can do a separate source on the HDMI matrix output than you have set for Zone 2/3 (unlike the 3313, which requires the same source with Zone 2 for both HDMI and standard output).
post #1410 of 1844
Quote:
Originally Posted by IcetomLT View Post

European Denon representative said, they managed to reduce jitter by another 10 %biggrin.gif. Also he said, that Denon Link HD will be easier to set up.
Mor information about it and some preliminary (?) 4520 specs are here: http://www.avforums.com/forums/video-productions/1646122-denon-marantz-boston-acoustics-launch-event-2012-a.html
Also European Denon representative said, that 4520 wil have 9 monoblocks. Is AVR-4311 amplifiers construction the same type?

Thanks for the link. smile.gif
My interpretation of his wording was that he was just stating that Denon Link in general improves jitter by 10% not that the newer version improves on the older version other that easy of set-up and it is now available at a lower price point.
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