When do the 2013 Denon's come out? Any new features we should expect? - Page 17

That's absolutely not true from a technical perspective. ZIP files are a great example of lossless compression, as is PNG for images.

For video here is a list of lossless video codecs: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...ss_compression

It is completely technically possible to compress without loss, and this is done all the time.

Looks like they don't have programmable remotes anymore.

^^
Denon programmable remotes are currently only found on the 43XX and higher models (never were offered with 33XX models or lower).

Yes. 2D GUI overlay on the 1513, and 2D/3D GUI overlay on 1613 and higher (formerly only on 2312CI and 3312CI).

Current information learned so far from various sources (some features are listed in notes section) ...

1513 (MSRP $249.99) ----> 5.1, 75W, 4/1 HDMI, AM/FM, GUI, HDMI Standby pass through, 3.5mm jack, No ARC, No Audyssey, No USB, (April)
1613 (MSRP $399.99) ----> 5.1, 75W, 5/1 HDMI, FM only, MultEQ (April)
1713 (MSRP $449.99) ----> 5.1, 80W, 6/1 HDMI, MultEQ XT, Zone 2 (preouts only) (May)
1913 (MSRP $579.99) ----> 7.1, 90W, 6/1 HDMI, MultEQ, Adv GUI, Zone 2 (Amp Assign), Comp video IN (1), Analog-->HDMI, 1080p/24hz upscaling, PLIIz (April)

2113CI (MSRP $ ) --> 7.1, 90W, 6/1 HDMI, 4k upscaling, MultEQ XT, (May)
2313CI (MSRP $ ) --> 7.2, 105W, 7/2 HDMI, 4k upscaling, MultEQ XT, DSX (June)
3313CI (MSRP $ ) --> 7.2, 125W, 7/3 HDMI, 4k upscaling, Denon Link HD, Aluminum faceplate (June)

4520CI (MSRP $2500?) --> Audyssey LFC(?), DTS Neo:X (?), ???? (Sep)

NOTES:
* Front HDMI (all models)
* Networking/Airplay (Zone 2 independent from main zone)/SiriusXM/Flickr, Pandora (1613 and higher)
* Spotify (1913 and higher via firmware upgrade later this summer)
* GUI (1513, 1613, 1713); Advanced GUI (1913 and higher)
* "Auto Standby" feature: [2hrs, 4hrs, 8hrs, Off] (1513 only), [30min, 60min, Off] (1613 and higher)
* "Dialogue Level" (enhance center channel dialog), Front USB, GUI overlay on 3D video, HDMI Control (1613 and higher)
* Web Control w/SAVE/LOAD of config file/Audyssey (1713 and higher)
* Dynamic Volume renamed from (Day, Evening, Midnight) to (Light, Medium, Heavy)(1613 and higher)
* Audyssey "Manual EQ" relabeled "Graphic EQ" (1913 and higher)
* Audyssey mic ACM1HB replaces DM-A409 (1613 and higher); cosmetic changes made only, interchangeable with DM-A409
* No mention of firmware update via USB in Owner manuals(?)
* iPad connection to USB (1713)
* Larger font size on front panel display
* New Denon Remote App Ver 3.0 with XX13 model unique features (Frequency Direct FM Tuning, Fast Internet Radio Browsing,,Volume Limit Setting)


Features not carried forward from XX12 model:
* Rhapsody and Napster (all networking models)
* Ipod docking station jack (S-Video)
* Assignment of HDMI inputs
* AM radio (1613 and higher)
* Component IN/Out (1713)
* Number of analog audio inputs reduced
* Reduction of 2" of depth in unit dimension
* Preouts: 1513 (Surr Back), 1613 (Surr Back/Front HT)
* Custom 2CH Direct/Stereo settings (1713)
* Party Mode (multiple Denon AVRs in house)
* Denon remote no longer preprogrammed with other device codes

Those would be I assume the learning remotes. My 1712 in the menu gives you preset codes you can set to control various tvs, blu ray players or cable boxes. I use my remote to control my Denon DBP-1610 and would also my tv but being an insignia it uses some weird code that it doesn't have.

^^
Which is why a universal remote (eg. Harmony) is recommended to replace the Denon and all other remotes (big WAF points as well).

Unlike others I like that fact that the back of the new units are less complicated and have fewer inputs. Everything that I plug in is HDMI today and I hate HDMI. The cables don't seat well and to me seem silly. The back of the unit should have speaker posts and a single ethernet cable. Not sure why the industry is taking so long to get there.

So... for the 1713 vs 2112CI .. all I see as different is a few plugs and the powered rear surround.

Has the software changed in any significant way? Processors?

Lengthy preview of the 1713 by Area DVD: http://www.areadvd.de/hardware/2012/denon_avr1713.shtml

German, so you might want to use google translate if you'd like to read it in Korean.

you are going to be waiting a very long time...

http://www.amazon.com/Denon-AVR-1913.../dp/B007R8U5R6

It really takes alot of restraint to not buy this but I will let someone else be first

Sounds like denon is following onkyos lead, denon is dropping some of its best menu options like "Custom 2CH Direct/Stereo settings"

So how do I connect my HTPC to it? Do I need to install another NIC? Currently it doesn't output HD video and HD audio through ethernet, it does it through HDMI. I do agree that HDMI connectors are a bit weak, though.

Looks like the new 1913 is losing alot of weight, like 25% at only 20.1 pounds. That can't be good for amp output. The 1909 was over 25 lbs !

Based on posted spec pages, there appears to be no change in the processor, DAC, or ADC on the 1513-1913 as compared to the models they are replacing.

Just connect it via HDMI which is how all current AVRs work.

I wonder if the xx12/xx13 models use the SHARC Hammerhead 21487 DSP chip?

^^
Yup. 1612/1613 and higher models.

Here it is translated ...

http://translate.google.com/translat...26prmd%3Dimvns

The review compares the 1713 to the 1612 because there was no 1712 distributed over in Europe (one of the reasons why the Europe 1912 has MultEQ XT). It does however, mention the firmware update via USB as well as the capability to connect an iPad to the USB jack (something the XX12 models nor the 1613 or 1913 is capable of doing per their respective Owner's manual).

So, I've been waiting for this announcement to pull the trigger on upgrading my receiver. The 1912 was my bare minimum (Airplay + 2 powered zones). I was considering the 2112CI for the better menu system, and I was actually seriously considering ponying up for a 3312CI, just for the front HDMI, using the extra power, HD radio, and myriad extra inputs (should I ever need them) as extra justification.

I really don't want to wait any longer. I'm not very clear on the differences between the 2112CI and the 1913. Can someone clarify, and/or offer any insights that seem relevant?

EDIT: Denon comparison page for 1913, 2112, 2312, 3312

Looking at the above, I see the following differences betwee the 2112 and the 1913:
* 1913 is smaller and slightly lighter (I don't care)
* 1913 adds SiriusXM, missing Napster and Rhapsody streaming (I don't care)
* 1913 moves one of the six HDMI inputs to the front (I like)
* 1913 doesn't work with Denon's iPod dock, but can plug one in via USB on the front panel (I don't care)
* 1913 has lower analog-to-digital conversion rate, 96kHz vs 192 (I'd never notice)
* 1913 doesn't have independent power supplies (I don't think I care, but high-end characteristics like that appeal to my inner nerd)
* 1913 has MultEq, 2112 has MultEq XT (I don't know what the difference is, but I know XT is "better")
* 1913 has 1080p video scaling; 2112 doesn't appear to do any scaling (I think I would prefer to have scaling)
* 1913 doesn't have "Party Mode Plus" (I don't know what that is)
* 1913 has the on-screen first-time setup guide (sounds nice, but whatever)

The comparison chart seems to indicate that the 1913 doesn't come with a pre-programmed remote. I'm not sure what to make of that. Anyone know?

I know Denon's comparison pages leave things off and/or mislead -- for example, nowhere in the chart does it say that the 3312 has HD Radio, but the 3312 product page does. What else is missing? I might care! :/

Street price for both the 1913 and the 2112 are about the same, so that's a wash. Can anyone fill me in on why I should care about having MultEQ XT over regular MultEQ, or Party Mode Plus? I'm guessing that I won't find those very compelling, and will end up getting a 1913.

Then again, the 3312's third zone, video to the second zone, and the nearly 40% increase in amplifier power are calling to me. It's quite a bit more money, but I can afford it. Then again, the 3313 will almost certainly have all that and a bag of chips, so I'd really have a hard time pulling the trigger on one now.

I'M SO TORN! Somebody help me decide.

EDIT 2: I googled Party Mode Plus. It sounds cool, but I don't think I'd miss it. I also googled MultEQ XT, but I'm still not clear on what it adds over regular MultEQ or why I should care.

^^

1913 -- adv GUI, powered Zone 2 only, Audssey MultEQ, Front USB, 6 HDMI (1-Front), Airplay (independently plays to Zone 2), 2 yr warranty


2212CI - adv GUI, powered & preout Zone 2, Audyssey MultEQ XT, Front USB, 6 HDMI (all on back), Airplay (must also be selected in main zone to play in Zone 2), 3 year warranty,

Denon USA A/V webpage now has the 1513, 1613, 1713, 1913 showing today.

Denon home page has a link to same URL saying "Introducing our 2012 AV Receiver Lineup".

Nothing concerning CI series.

What's the difference between the two different MultEQs? I know that XT has 8 measurement positions vs 6, and higher "filter resolution," whatever that is, but I don't know what that means in terms of the effect it'll have on my listening experience. Should I care? This is for a 5.1 system in my living room, used primarily for watching TV and blu-ray movies.

http://www.audyssey.com/audio-technology/multeq

Wow there barely any inputs and output, but lots of hdmi. I must be old school, these new avrs are made for children.

^^^

last time i checked, hdmi was "input and output"... also, last time i checked, this has nothing to do with being a child...

do you have anything useful to add to the topic? or are you just pulling your normal routine here?

If you were to compare the two versions, you would likely notice some difference in better audio fidelity from the 2112CI (XT); however, if you're not familiar with Audyssey at all, the 1913 will serve you just as well.

He has never had anything useful to add to any topic so I don't see why he would start now.

I'm just waiting on him to tell us how much better video quality his betamax has than blu-ray.

Sort of wondering if the 3313ci will follow suit and lose some legacy inputs over the 3312ci? If so, what goodies will come in exchange?