When do the 2013 Denon's come out? Any new features we should expect? - Page 26

it would definitely be interesting if the 2313 is "Pro" capable, although (as with the 7.2 pre-outs) I'm not holding my breath for the US version to have this. If it does, along with DSD support, that would make it a really killer little "budget audiophile" receiver.

I imagine "enhanced Zone 2" refers to the fact that it has additional controls vs. the lower models (as does the 2312ci), like bass/treble adjustment, HPF control, variable volume for the pre-outs, etc. If it does digital to zone 2 that would be pretty sweet though... but to this point Denon has never offered this below the 28xx level.

No expanded graphical display on the 2313? This was a big reason for me to step up to the higher models. I'm talking about the 5 or 7 channel graphic of the incoming/outgoing signals allowing you to see the channels of your source.

I went back and took a look at the specs for the 2112 and the 2312 and I'm pretty sure you're right. It would be nice, though, as I'm tired of having to do the control panel shuffle every time I want to use zone 2 with my computer. I'm hoping Windows 8 will fix that but that's a topic for another forum.

Jim

No AM makes no sense to me either. I listen to a lot of local sports talk myself and with my flaky internet connection (thank u Crapcast), it looks like I'll be skipping this generation as an upgrade option. What are they going to save on taking out the feature, cents? Really.

This is a carryover as the 2312CI is also Pro capable. The European 2312 actually dropped the preouts, so it's possible the 2313CI will have preouts as well.


This is correct.

Denon has apparently chosen to go with a larger font size single line display across all models which does not allow room for the input/output icons.

Bizzare. It's not as if a larger LCD isn't overdue or would bankrupt them. Every time they take a step forward in one place it seems they take one back somewhere else.

You never get the sense that these folks want to make killer products, just massively compromised ones.

Not that it's a bad thing, and fully understand the reasoning behind stripping these things down, but the proof will be in the pudding when someone actually gets to play with one of these new 'minimalist' AVRs as far as SQ goes. I mean after all, isn't that the drive behind an AVR in the first place???

All I can say is I feel saddened to have seen just how 'un-special' these new Denons, Onkyos, Pioneers etc...have become in such a short period of time. I know about the deletion of analog legacy inputs. We are in the digital age that doesn't need all of that anymore. Hell, I don't use 3/4s of the inputs I have on my 4310 so I do understand. I just feel Denon will see a slip in sales and enthusiasm with the new lineup. Seems it has lost the class, the flexibility, the prestige that it had attained from generations of top shelf equipment. At least that is how I feel. And am so pleased to have a 'legacy' unit now.

But, again, it all depends on the SQ, which I am sure, will be outstanding, as usual.

^^
As the XX13 models use the same internal components as the XX12 models, there should be no change in SQ. Also Denon likely isn't so much worried about "upgraders" as they are about bringing new HDTV owners who want surround sound into the fold. To that end, the newer models are much less confusing with far fewer inputs to worry about.

And I agree whole heartedly. I am certain it is just me that feels the way I do tho. It's just for the same money as the legacy units, I want (expect?) everything I can. After 40 years of stereos with back panels full of jacks and dials/faceplates with all the meters and lights and indicators, kinda hard to let go.

Of course, it is a new generation out there and they won't miss what wasn't there in the first place.

^^
You got it Toyota! (er Denon).

Hey I'm all for budget audiophile models but IMO the savvy shopper doesn't spend $700 on Pro kit + license for an MultEQXT model, but rather reallocates those funds to moving up the Denon (or Onkyo, for that matter) line to an AVR with XT32.

I agree with this. Pro-capable on a 2313CI is probably best used by installers, putting those units in smaller secondary rooms.

right but what if you already had a Pro kit and you wanted a secondary setup in a smaller room or something? Then it's just the license fee.

I also imagine that the custom installer market is important, they have a lower price point option with good CI features (including Pro).

+1

A buyer may not want the capabilities of the 4311CI, however, the custom installer can still offer a better EQ on the 2312CI/2313 for a few hundred more.

Well sure. I got a 4311CI for a secondary room, and I have the installer kit. However, since it's only a stereo set-up, I'm not sure if I want to drop the $150 for another license


Agreed. The installer market should not be overlooked. A lot of well-off folks might desire 5.1 in all rooms with a TV. I'm personally pretty satisfied with a good receiver + 2.0 for casual listening.

Wow, really? I would never have thought of that without your input! Good thing you are here! Can you help me figure something else out? If I want two HDMI outputs on my AVR, should I buy an AVR with two HDMI outputs?

Don't know where that silly notion of yours to buy a two HDMI output AVR came from, but if you want two HDMI outputs on your AVR, you better buy an AVR with two HDMI outputs. Your way will leave you wanting, while my way completely satisfies...(at least that what she said last nite! )

+1... since i already have the kit, if i got another avr for another room, i would likely purchase the license for it...

of course, if denon would just offer me an upgrade to the 5800 to make it pro kit ready...


hey, i want a pony too... but i ain't getting one...

we know you want a 9 channel avr, you've told us that many times... whining that it's not happening on the "modestly priced" models isn't going to make it happen...

you want to run with the big dogs, bring your wallet...

No, and no. You buy 2 separate AVRs that have 1 HDMI output each. THen you would have 2 Outputs.

I am in exactly the same boat! That 818 looks sweet but it won't fit in my cabinet no matter how hard I try.



Amen. Shallower receivers are a good move.

Now I wish there were some shallower power amps. I've looked at Marantz's MM2075 and some pro amps purely for that reason.

I can't accommodate you and your 19" depth, Emotiva...

Any idea if the 3000 series will send stereo out to zone 2 from an HDMI source? I just bought the 3312CI and it's killing me that I can't do this. I'm told only the 9000 series for 2011/12 had this capability

Please excuse the newb question, but I'm new to the forum as well as Denon AVR's.

I'm interested in having the capability of running an external 2-channel amp on my front mains. I know the 3312 and 4311 have pre-outs for all channels. I'm guessing that the new 3313 and 4520 will have the pre-outs also. Are any of the lower level Denon units capable of this? I'm guessing that zone 2 pre-outs are not capable of being for this purpose, or if they are used the Audyssey auto-calibration would not work properly?

^^
Welcome to AVS Forum.

Currently the 33XX series and higher are the only models with main channel preouts. The European 2313 has preouts and it's very possible the 2313CI (USA model) will as well. And no, you can't use the Zone 2 preouts for the front mains and Audyssey is not applied to them.

There have been extensive conversations about this elsewhere, and apparently the answer is no.

Also, I'm kinda new around here, but I'm not familiar with a Denon 9000 series AVR (but there is a DVD player with such a model number). Can you be more specific? As far as I know, no Denon AVR has ever done this.

I have yet to see a list of what you can do with Zone 2. As AVRs get fewer and fewer non-HDMI inputs, it seems less and less useful. Here's what I've managed to gather so far:

* You can play any analog audio source, if your AVR has them
* You can use AirPlay, XM, Pandora, DLNA, and any of the other network-sourced audio your AVR can do
* You can play the same thing that's playing in zone 1, even if it's from a digital input

Can someone confirm/correct my list? I'm pretty confident of the first two, but the last one I'm not so sure about.

1. Yup.
2. Yup.
3. 2312CI and lower; 1913 (at least) - Nope
3312CI and higher - PCM 2.0 over optical/digital coax as well as analog

Thanks. To be clear, are you saying you can't do HDMI to zone 1 and zone 2 simultaneously?

Let's say I'm listening to stereo music via an AppleTV connected using HDMI. I want it playing in the living room (zone 1) and on my deck (zone 2). Can I do that? Seems like I should be able to, since from the receiver's standpoint it should be the same as playing that music to a single 7.1 zone.

^^
No current Denon AVR can pass HDMI audio to Zone 2 regardless of whether it's playing in Zone 1 or not. The only way to pass HDMI audio to a set of speakers in another room is to set them up as "Front B" which will then play the same source as in the main zone at the same volume as the Front A speakers.

Got it. Thankfully, the AppleTV also has optical out, which it sounds like I could hook up in parallel and use for my intended purpose.

I'm assuming it's a PITA to change configuration from Zone 2 to Front B and vice versa?

^^
Yes, it would be a PITA. You'd have to first place them in the main zone and run AUTO SETUP with your other main zone speakers. You would then have to go into the sub menus and change AMP ASSIGN from "Zone 2" to "Front B". And as noted, the volume of these speakers would be the same volume as the Front A speakers.