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When do the 2013 Denon's come out? Any new features we should expect? - Page 4

post #91 of 1844
2/18/12 at 6:47am
THX only a guess since it will be considered "flagship", (and some justification for a substantial price increase over the 4311) plus they gotta keep up with the Onkyo's next door

THX has never been a deal breaker/deal maker to most of the respected individuals I read here... nor to me either, but it does add more initials to the front panels of our purchases!
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post #92 of 1844
2/18/12 at 10:32am
Although it's been in the works for awhile now, apparently the new XX13 models will be firmware updateable via USB which will resolve the issue of the non-networking models formerly having to be shipped to a repair center for updates as well as with networking models having issues updating from Denon's servers.
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post #93 of 1844
2/27/12 at 10:15am
As this thread seems to have developed into a 'what would we like' one rather than 'what to expect', I'll add my tuppence.

1. Class D Amps for smaller size (would please my wife giving higher power at lower price points (higher power = better audio quality)
2. Software updates every year (chargeable, say £100-500 depending on model, and would compensate Denon for less frequent hardware releases)
3. Ethernet over HDMI. Yes, I know this isn't for purists but they don't have to use it. I would just like it so that I can turn all the varous wifi devices off such as TV, BDP etc without having to bother running Cat5 cables.
4. Better GUI. Denon are better than they used to be but why isn't a high end device as easy to use as an iPad or a Windows 7 Media Centre machine?
5. Get rid of archaic connectors such as analogue radio (totally unnecessary if you have broadband) and composite (if you've still got something using composite, through it away and buy a new one of whatever it is BEFORE you buy a new receiver)
6. Front HDMI on all models
Ethernet over
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post #94 of 1844
2/27/12 at 10:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bathugeo View Post

1. Class D Amps for smaller size (would please my wife giving higher power at lower price points (higher power = better audio quality)

This has been a common theme in this thread. But, many years ago, the ding against Class D was the higher distortion. Is this no longer a problem?
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post #95 of 1844
2/28/12 at 3:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by rogo View Post

That would presumably be the kind of feature that only a subset of the 43xx set would use (and really no one else). I mean how many people have 11 speakers?

I do, well sort of, if you count the old Polk bookshelfs plus the Dahlquists that need to be reconed plus the PC speakers plus the half broken subwoofer.
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post #96 of 1844
2/28/12 at 3:42pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phantom Gremlin View Post

This has been a common theme in this thread. But, many years ago, the ding against Class D was the higher distortion. Is this no longer a problem?

I know it's apples and kumquats but Class D amps are the big (little?) "thing" in bass guitar amplification. My 600 watt Genz-Benz Shuttle amp weighs 3.75 lbs and almost all of the major makers have an over 500 watt under 5 lb amp in their lineup. Not an engineer (and I don't play one on TV) so I don't know why Class D amps wouldn't work in AVR applications.
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post #97 of 1844
2/29/12 at 1:45am
Early release on 1713 and 1913 models .... looks like the 1713 gains networking.

http://translate.google.com/translat...26prmd%3Dimvns
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post #98 of 1844
3/10/12 at 4:46pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

Early release on 1713 and 1913 models .... looks like the 1713 gains networking.

http://translate.google.com/translat...26prmd%3Dimvns

Instead of the input selector knob on the front left they how have numerous input buttons under the display? Is that Denon cost cutting in action once again?

I really hope they go all out on the new upcoming 4XXX Flagship.
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post #99 of 1844
3/10/12 at 4:56pm
^^
That change was made on the 1312, 1612, 1712, and 1912 so not a change for the XX13 models.
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post #100 of 1844
3/10/12 at 6:22pm
Well then a shame for the xx12 series onwards
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post #101 of 1844
3/25/12 at 10:08pm
Chirp. Chirp. Chirp.

That's the sound of crickets chirping. This thread is moribund.

Early on in this thread there was speculation that the earthquake threw off the usual annual release schedule. Now that we're getting closer to that time of year, does anyone have any updated information and/or speculation?
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post #102 of 1844
3/26/12 at 6:31am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Solid-State View Post

You think there are AVRs/Pre/Pro with multiple network PHYs?

ROTFL

Uhh I think your looking at an 8P8C socket for something like Denon Link etc

As an engineer that hopefully understands IP networks and NICs what possible logical reason would any AVR processor or any STB etc embedded device ever have more than one network interface.

EVER

DUH

You're talking outta your ass

Just my $0.02..

or

You're smoking something!

PS Doh! wired PHY and wireless PHY so I guess some have two technically but three or four is just ass talk and the notion shows a complete lack of understanding of computer IP networks and relevant hardware PHYs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2MuchHT View Post

No, to be honest, I DON'T "trust you".

If we REALLY have to explain it to you: perhaps you are in IT and obviously have a gaggle of managed network switches in your home system. Most consumers do not. Add to that the need to connect an inceasingly wide range of broadband dependant products that may not have built-in wireless (e.g. TiVo) Sony DID introduce a model with a four port switch two or three years ago. It's out of the line now, but I assure you it was there.

Don't believe me? Look here.

http://store.sony.com/webapp/wcs/sto...52921666238657

I think Sony knows the difference between an 8T8C socket and a switch. Yup, quoting from their web site, I think they know the difference and are happy to answer your plea for an explanation:

"The STR-DA5600ES has a 4 Port Ethernet Switch so you can connect your Network TV, BD Player, and PlayStation®3 to your router via the AV receiver. (no need for an additional Ethernet Switch) (HDMI cables sold separately)"

Think about what you are saying before you blindly go into attack mode. Why would Sony have provision for Denon Link? Sony has never embraced A-Bus. Sony DOES push connectivity. At the time, a built-in switch must have made sense to them. Maybe not to you, but I guess you don't design AVRs, do you?


But don't trust ME. Trust what was on display at CEDIA in 2009 as shown in the image attached below. It was sold for a year or so before being discontinued. Was the idea a good one? Perhaps at the time before switches became relatively cheap and more products began to include built in wireless for broadband connectivity. No one ever said it was a GOOD idea then, or would be a good idea now. Good or bad, that doesn't change the fact that the product was very real.

I have no need to "Giggle" or make fun of anyone. Only the truth is needed. M Code knows more about AVRs and consumer electronics than any dozen people on this forum. Why do you continue to mock him? He's many things, but he isn't your "brother".

This is why you do not post like an assmuncher. Invariably, you are munching on your own ass.
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post #103 of 1844
3/27/12 at 6:24am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phantom Gremlin View Post

Chirp. Chirp. Chirp.

That's the sound of crickets chirping. This thread is moribund.

Early on in this thread there was speculation that the earthquake threw off the usual annual release schedule. Now that we're getting closer to that time of year, does anyone have any updated information and/or speculation?

AFAIK, it only delayed the release of the new 4311CI/4810CI successor ... all other XX13 models should be announced in April and released starting in May/June as in previous years.
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post #104 of 1844
3/27/12 at 11:02am
I just caught up on this thread today and have to say that I am firmly in the camp of "give us a [special?] line that favors high quality audio (and possibly video) over networking". I currently have a Denon 2112CI and the only use I have for its networking capabilities are firmware upgrades (which new models will be able to do probably more reliably via USB) and only occasional web GUI control of the AVR. I would gladly give up the WEB gui or smartphone app and not feel deprived. Of course, a better remote would be nice :=)

I consider myself an audiophile and videophile. So the only HD content I watch is via my Oppo BD-83. I would never stream Netflix due the loss of quality. In fact I am also a huge user of my Squeezebox Touch. Now admittedly the SB Touch is a network device, but it is connected to the 2112 via standard audio inputs. I have hacked the Touch and it's SQ is OUTSTANDING, handling my entire CD collection losslessly. I am continually amazed at the quality of music played this way.

Maybe I am in the minority (like being one of few remaining Netflix disc-only [no streaming] customers), but I suspect there are many others out there and in this thread that feel similarly.

The idea of a multiport switch in an AVR sounds preposterous to me (a software engineer). After all, each device on a LAN is individually addressable -- switches take care of that. No need to put the switch inside the AVR. Instead give us better quality audio components!
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post #105 of 1844
3/27/12 at 11:26am
^^
The 1712 already fills this niche ... offering XT without networking.
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post #106 of 1844
3/27/12 at 3:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

^^
The 1712 already fills this niche ... offering XT without networking.

Specifically said: "favors high quality audio (and possibly video) over networking".

If its a niche heis looking for, you've missed the first half of the qualifications, as this unit would not exactly be described as audiophile.
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post #107 of 1844
3/27/12 at 4:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Osamede View Post

Specifically said: "favors high quality audio (and possibly video) over networking".

If its a niche heis looking for, you've missed the first half of the qualifications, as this unit would not exactly be described as audiophile.

Yeah, I was in fact responding so someone's earlier posting about a special line that emphasizes audio/video quality at the expense of unwanted networking features. So I'm thinking of something that does not yet exist. Since I currently have the 2112 (which I specifically chose so I could get firmware upgrades, and Audyssey MultiEQ XT, but not for the other network features) the 1712 would not have fit the bill due to no way to upgrade firmware short of taking it to a service center. With USB firmware upgrades, network features go *way* down in importance for me. But I would surely pay up for higher SQ (better amps/DAC/Audyssey [XT32 or Pro],etc.).

But, let he who is without sin cast the first stone :=) JDSmoothie was only trying to be helpful.
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post #108 of 1844
3/27/12 at 5:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Osamede View Post

Specifically said: "favors high quality audio (and possibly video) over networking".

If its a niche heis looking for, you've missed the first half of the qualifications, as this unit would not exactly be described as audiophile.

Thank you for that very complementary response. You put too much emphasis on the word "audiophile" (which I did not) and less on what the OP is actually using (which I did). My response was directed to the fact that the OP has a 2112CI which uses XT and the 1712 is designed for those that want the better version of Audyssey without the networking feature. The next jump up in audio fidelity comes with upgrading to XT32 at a cost of roughly 4x that of the 1712.
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post #109 of 1844
3/27/12 at 5:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by turquoisewords View Post

Since I currently have the 2112 (which I specifically chose so I could get firmware upgrades, and Audyssey MultiEQ XT, but not for the other network features) the 1712 would not have fit the bill due to no way to upgrade firmware short of taking it to a service center.

Note that although this is true, the non-networking models rarely receive (or need for that matter) a firmware update. The firmware updates for the networking models generally involve features that only the networking models use.
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post #110 of 1844
3/27/12 at 9:42pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

Note that although this is true, the non-networking models rarely receive (or need for that matter) a firmware update. The firmware updates for the networking models generally involve features that only the networking models use.

Perhaps that may true now, but my previous AVR, a 1909, needed a firmware update to fix a nasty bug. I never sent it to a repair center because I didn't want to be without my system for possibly many weeks.
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post #111 of 1844
4/2/12 at 7:11am
Okay, we are now into April. Where's Denon's announcement about the 2013 lineup?
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post #112 of 1844
4/2/12 at 1:53pm
Yamaha just made its announcement. I'd imagine Denon won't be too far behind.
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post #113 of 1844
4/2/12 at 5:23pm
Likely next week sometime which is about when the XX12 line was announced last year.

As it turns out though, one of the authorized parts distributors is already reporting parts for some of the new models ...

1513
1613
1713
1913
2313CI
3313CI
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post #114 of 1844
4/2/12 at 5:24pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by citrixscu View Post

Yamaha just made its announcement. I'd imagine Denon won't be too far behind.

I'm in no hurry. I'd like to think that my 4311 is their 'flagship' for a little bit longer (4810 owners' mileage may vary). Especially since I just bought one LT two months ago and am still getting the finishing touches of my Pro calibration done, with OmniMic measurement and some positioning tweaks. But as long as there's regular firmware upgrades, I'm not sure how much 'current' really matters until 4K is more supported with content. I would think there's a few 4810 & 4311 owners that would substantially agree:-).

Edit: I don't see the 43xx or 48xx on that list on the post above this.

Stuart
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post #115 of 1844
4/3/12 at 1:14pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

Likely next week sometime which is about when the XX12 line was announced last year.

As it turns out though, one of the authorized parts distributors is already reporting parts for the new models ...

1513
1613
1713
1723
1913
2313CI
3313CI

So the 1513 replaces the 1312 and no 2112CI replacement it appears.

Will be interesting to see how the different flavors of Audyssey MultEQ from top XT32 are climbing down the model ladder. Also glad to see the 1312 without any room EQ will disappear from the line and hope the 1513 will have at least the MultEQ version of Audyssey.
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post #116 of 1844
4/3/12 at 1:34pm
There may not be any further progression of XT32 down the product line, if the 4311 remains unchanged. The 4311 is almost twice the price of the 3312. You toss XT32 in the 3313 and there is probably no point still fielding the 4311 - its gonna be near impossible to sell it - at least at that price premium.

That's the problem with all this over-segmentation, there are models out there that have little real life difference and it starts to force the manufacturer into making bad decisions.
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post #117 of 1844
4/3/12 at 1:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Osamede View Post

There may not be any further progression of XT32 down the product line, if the 4311 remains unchanged. The 4311 is almost twice the price of the 3312. You toss XT32 in the 3313 and there is probably no point still fielding the 4311 - its gonna be near impossible to sell it - at least at that price premium.

That's the problem with all this over-segmentation, there are models out there that have little real life difference and it starts to force the manufacturer into making bad decisions.

Come to think of it, why are there five AVRs in the 1x13 line?
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post #118 of 1844
4/3/12 at 1:43pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdrucker View Post

Come to think of it, why are there five AVRs in the 1x13 line?

Yeah, and what is 1723, a model for the year 2023? Wow!

jd? We need you!
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post #119 of 1844
4/3/12 at 1:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mogorf View Post

Will be interesting to see how the different flavors of Audyssey MultEQ from top XT32 are climbing down the model ladder. Also glad to see the 1312 without any room EQ will disappear from the line and hope the 1513 will have at least the MultEQ version of Audyssey.

That's what I'm waiting to hear. If the Onkyo 818 is going to have XT32 I don't see how the 3313 could not have it if Denon wants to be competitive. I think it was a huge mistake for Onkyo to take XT off the 717 and go down to 2EQ but I still wonder if that is a misprint. If the 3313 has XT32 then I might have to pick one up but if it stays with XT I will look at Onkyo. I hate to do it with all the quality control issues they have had in the last few years but I need XT32 and I'm not willing to pay thousands of $s.
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post #120 of 1844
4/3/12 at 3:57pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mogorf View Post

Yeah, and what is 1723, a model for the year 2023? Wow!

jd? We need you!

Sorry, Feri ... no can do.

Denon is always tight lipped around this time of year and I'm still trying to break into the "new gang" at Denon what with Jeff T. gone. Note, however, I just picked those models off of the parts distributor's website, no other inside information available on the 1723 or it's validity.
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