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Graphics Card Advice Please

post #1 of 32
10/25/11 at 3:23pm
Thread Starter 
So my current built in card supports DVI and VGA, i've been using VGA then got wide screen monitors, used one on DVI and just cant even look at the one on VGA anymore becuz after the nice clean digital picture that analoge image hurts my eyes [i'm spoiled now]. So I need a card with HDMI and DVI so i can have 2 monitors running with the digital picture. Now the computer isnt very fast to begin with [its an older Dell Dimension 8400] but its PCI-E x16. I had a few cards in mind and I was wondering if anyone could tell me which would be better in the case of mostly being used for video viewing/photoshop editing, with some light gaming, most like counter-strike or newer games maybe but obviously at lower resolutions [as my choices are on the inexpensive side]. I'm just not sure if i should go bigger memory or faster memory....


Gigabtye is 1GB size, but DDR3
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814125392

Sapphire is 513mb size, but DDR5
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-947-_-Product
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post #2 of 32
10/25/11 at 3:28pm
In comparisons of 1G DDR3 vs 512M DDR5 I have seen, they are usually pretty close in performance, but there is a slight advantage to the DDR5 I think.
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post #3 of 32
10/25/11 at 4:25pm
Thread Starter 
Yeah I figured they would be, I just wasn't sure if its better to have more memory capacity or faster memory speed. Like the advantages of each so that I could figure out which would be best suited and more importantly which one would have a better "technology shelf life" so I didnt have to upgrade as soon...if that makes sense

Anyone with experience around this price range of card [between $30-$60] show me a decent card for the money that maybe I missed?
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post #4 of 32
10/25/11 at 6:58pm
Thread Starter 
Right now they are both the same price [with the rebate on the 512mb] at $40. Could someone school me on the advantages of having more memory over faster memory and vice versa? I guess that'd be the best way for me to land on my decision
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post #5 of 32
10/25/11 at 7:54pm
Google "DDR3 vs DDR5"
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post #6 of 32
10/25/11 at 9:48pm
GDDR5 version is much better in performance, even at video playback, let alone gaming.
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post #7 of 32
10/25/11 at 10:37pm
Thread Starter 
Well my research basically shows that there isn't much of a difference between a 512MB DDR5 and a 1GB DDR3. The speed from DDR3 to DDR5 isn't much, but also unless your running games with BIG texture rates 512MB is enough for most games anyway....maybe this will help on a more specific end. The computer this will be going into is Dell Optiplex GX620. I believe its a 3.8Ghz Dual Core with 4gb of RAM...its not much of a Gaming computer but if I decide to upgrade I wana get the card that will work better with this computer and something better I would put it in to....can someone tell me which of these cards would be fine for this computer. Like as far as benefiting from the bigger or faster memory based on my computer specs which would be a better choice?
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post #8 of 32
10/25/11 at 10:51pm
Simply 1GB video memory is pointless at this level of card (no large textures). The difference between DDR3 and GDDR5 (there is no "DDR5") in video playback is obvious. HQV 2.0 total score:

- AMD HD 6450 GDDR5: 189
- MSI HD 6450 DDR3: 144

It's not just benchmark, I see differences here and there in real-world experience.
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post #9 of 32
10/25/11 at 10:57pm
Ok, you are comparing GeForce 210 DDR3-1200 and HD 6450 GDDR5-3200. Then the answer is even obvious, go for HD 6450. GeForce 210 is simply inappropriate for decent video playback (too few CUDA processors for decent post-processing, no HD audio bitstreaming).
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post #10 of 32
10/25/11 at 11:01pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

Simply 1GB video memory is pointless at this level of card (no large textures). The difference between DDR3 and GDDR5 (there is no "DDR5") in video playback is obvious. HQV 2.0 total score:

- AMD HD 6450 GDDR5: 189
- MSI HD 6450 DDR3: 144

It's not just benchmark, I see differences here and there in real-world experience.


I was just going by what the card memory type specs say on neweggs website which is

Memory Type: DDR5

Didn't mention the "G", not saying your wrong cuz i dont know, but thats what it said....but I was leaning toward the 512MB card on that fact that the 1GB seems like it might not be much, if any, a benefit at this low end of a card. The 1GB might just be mainly marketing toward people who dont do any research and assume just cause it says 1GB it'll be better than a 512MB which simply [from what i can tell] isn't true....and I right in my assumptions?

[my assumption being [with your input], at this lower end of cards Id get really no benefit in having 1GB memory becuz this card isn't capable of running high texture games in the first place and with the 512MB running GDDR5, there would be a benefit in video play back]
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post #11 of 32
10/25/11 at 11:05pm
Yup, "1GB" is just a marketing strategy, that is practically useless.
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post #12 of 32
10/25/11 at 11:07pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

Ok, you are comparing GeForce 210 DDR3-1200 and HD 6450 GDDR5-3200. Then the answer is even obvious, go for HD 6450. GeForce 210 is simply inappropriate for decent video playback (too few CUDA processors for decent post-processing, no HD audio bitstreaming).

I'm not exactly sure about HD audio bitstreaming, but it def sounds like i'd rather have that then not and thank you for the input. I always come to this forum asking for advice on new electronics and always buy with the confidence i'm making the right choice. I might have went with the Gigabyte card if I hadn't of asked. I think i'm def going to go with the Sapphire in this case! Thanks again
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post #13 of 32
10/25/11 at 11:17pm
Thread Starter 
Oh and once last thing before I actually make the purchase since I got you here. Based off my choice do you know of another similarly priced card that might be better? I dont do much shopping for video cards but this one is on neweggs daily special so thats why i'm considering it, but for the price $50, could you recommend [with link if you could] a better card? Just wana get the best for the money in these financially tough times.
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post #14 of 32
10/26/11 at 12:11am
GeForce GT 430 is much better, there are several cards < $50. ZOTAC is out of stock, ECS a bit lout, MSI definitely loud, ASUS's DDR3-1200 is a bit slow, MSI is good but $60. Oh well...
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post #15 of 32
10/26/11 at 12:22am
Thread Starter 
This the ECS you were talking about? I dont have to much experience with this company...
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814134121

What about any of these?

Zotac $45 [after mail in rebate] no experience with them either
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814500177

Gigabyte $50 after mail in, have had good experience with this company
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814125346

XFX $35 after mail in, no experience with these either
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814150556

ASUS $50 after mail in
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814121471

any of those look good, I dont have any experience with most of those but I typed in GeForce GT 430 in the search and selected some of the cheaper ones that came up
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post #16 of 32
10/26/11 at 12:40am
When choosing GT 430, a rule of thumb is DDR3-1600 or higher video memory is very good, DDR3-1400 is the minimum for good video post-processing, anything lower should be avoided.

Galaxy DDR3-1600, $45 AR, is pretty good.

GIGABYTE GV-N430OC-1GL DDR3-1800, $50 AR, is in my recommendation list. Very quiet.

ZOTAC DDR3-1600, $45 AR? I don't know how quiet/loud it is.

XFX DDR3-1000 is too slow, so is ASUS DDR3-1200.
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post #17 of 32
10/26/11 at 1:43am
Quote:
Originally Posted by LaowtherKamia View Post

they are usually pretty close in performance.

Not really, depending on how to interpret "usually". There could be a big difference under certain circumstances. Just pay a little attention and you will be able to get a better card for the same cost.
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post #18 of 32
10/26/11 at 2:02am
Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

Yup, "1GB" is just a marketing strategy, that is practically useless.

Do you have any stats on memory load for TMT, PDVD, EVR CP(with shaders), madVR? I don't mean some strong proves, your word will be enough (if you ever paid attention to those).
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post #19 of 32
10/26/11 at 8:11am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

When choosing GT 430, a rule of thumb is DDR3-1600 or higher video memory is very good, DDR3-1400 is the minimum for good video post-processing, anything lower should be avoided.

Galaxy DDR3-1600, $45 AR, is pretty good.

GIGABYTE GV-N430OC-1GL DDR3-1800, $50 AR, is in my recommendation list. Very quiet.

ZOTAC DDR3-1600, $45 AR? I don't know how quiet/loud it is.

XFX DDR3-1000 is too slow, so is ASUS DDR3-1200.


Thanks man, if i dont go with the original idea with that Sapphire and decide to dish out the extra $20 I think i'll prob go with that Gigabyte, i assume being on your recommendation list you'd say the benefit would be worth the extra $20?
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post #20 of 32
10/26/11 at 8:14am
Quote:
Originally Posted by qwiktune View Post

you'd say the benefit would be worth the extra $20?

Yes.
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post #21 of 32
10/26/11 at 9:40pm
Thread Starter 
I saw a review of that Radeon HD 6450 isn't great for running dual monitors in 1080p which is what i'm going to be doing so I'm going to go with that step up GeForce GT 430 as you suggested, thanks again man!
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post #22 of 32
10/27/11 at 7:22am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Qaq View Post

Do you have any stats on memory load for TMT, PDVD, EVR CP(with shaders), madVR? I don't mean some strong proves, your word will be enough (if you ever paid attention to those).

At playback of HD i video:

- EVR CP/PDVD/TMT/libavcodec+yadif+madVR: ~300MB
- CUVID+madVR: ~450MB

For HD film, roughly 50MB lower.

Present queue = 4 (default). If I set present queue = 16, it went up to ~550MB (video memory is DDR3-1600 1GB, GT 220).

So, in general 512MB is enough. If you want to experiment with madVR, 1GB is a good choice.
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post #23 of 32
10/27/11 at 12:43pm
If your going to use the machine as an HTPC, then go with an NVidia based card. Look on Doom9.org for LAV filters. Its a great set of codecs that work with NVidia only (at least it was the last time I checked).
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post #24 of 32
10/27/11 at 7:36pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by darth b View Post

If your going to use the machine as an HTPC, then go with an NVidia based card. Look on Doom9.org for LAV filters. Its a great set of codecs that work with NVidia only (at least it was the last time I checked).

Correct me if i'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure that the GeForce is nVidia?
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post #25 of 32
10/27/11 at 11:14pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

So, in general 512MB is enough. If you want to experiment with madVR, 1GB is a good choice.

Yeah, I thought so. A headroom might be useful for color management, HQ processing. Thanks for testing and clarifying.
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post #26 of 32
10/28/11 at 1:00am
Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

Ok, you are comparing GeForce 210 DDR3-1200 and HD 6450 GDDR5-3200. Then the answer is even obvious, go for HD 6450. GeForce 210 is simply inappropriate for decent video playback (too few CUDA processors for decent post-processing, no HD audio bitstreaming).

I have an objection on g210 because for dxva x264 progressive content is decent enough, even for madvr apart from some dropped frames at the beginning of the playback the rest is stable.
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post #27 of 32
10/28/11 at 1:47am
When I recommend a graphics card, I usually test it with all 5 major video formats: SD film, SD video, HD film, HD i video, HD p video. G210 fails in playing back SD video and HD i video under madVR (lots of dropped frames). The number of CUDA processors of G210 is only 16 vs 96 of GT 430. 16 is too few to do decent graphics processing tasks.
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post #28 of 32
10/28/11 at 8:35am
Quote:
Originally Posted by darth b View Post

If your going to use the machine as an HTPC, then go with an NVidia based card. Look on Doom9.org for LAV filters. Its a great set of codecs that work with NVidia only (at least it was the last time I checked).

LAV Filters works with both AMD Radeon and Nvidia Geforce. However, there is something called CUVID which is Geforce only. You really don't need this. I'm not sure I see the point of it.
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post #29 of 32
10/28/11 at 10:09am
CUVID supports hardware video decode and post processing under *any* video renderer (the author keeps madVR in mind; under DXVA, you have to use EVR). I see two points:

- Deinterlacing and pulldown detection by hardware/driver is usually better than software solutions.
- Offloading CPU is a must under certain cirucmstances (e.g. a dual-core processor + madVR + HD interlaced contents; but then, at least 96 CUDA processors are necessary).
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post #30 of 32
1/2/12 at 12:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by qwiktune View Post

Thanks man, if i dont go with the original idea with that Sapphire and decide to dish out the extra $20 I think i'll prob go with that Gigabyte, i assume being on your recommendation list you'd say the benefit would be worth the extra $20?

I just ordered a NE ShellShocker Gigabyte GeForce 210 1GB 64-bit DDR3 for $15 AR.

I couldn't resist the price AND it supports two analog monitors (VGA and DVI-I), which seems to be a feature dropped from more recent generation video cards.

After buying it I decided to check what avsforum/renethx thought of it. Useful comments about the video processing, but I don't regret splurging $15 (AR) on it.

It'll probably replace a "GeForce 6200 Turbo Cache" in my wife's desktop system., in an old nForce4 motherboard.
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