Help with small 2channel system

SVS SB-12NSD:

http://www.svsound.com/products-sub-box-sb12nsd.cfm

There's no indication of what your budget is, but since you're considering Rel and Velodyne I'll assume you can spend a few dollars. That being the case here are a couple of potential options worth exploring further...

Paradigm UltraCube 10 or Seismic 110
Sunfire HRS10
Emotiva Ultra 12
DefTech SuperCube III
Martin Logan Dynamo 7000
Axiom EP175
Mirage Prestige S8
DynAudio Sub 250

Each of them is relatively small, and has their own strengths. The price range is pretty wide too.

Some of the models referenced above are way overpriced for what you get. Axiom is one of those lines that simply doesn't compete. A member just returned the $1,270 Axiom EP-500 and kept the $679 SVS PB-12 NSD, which he said just crushed the Axiom.

The Mirage S8 is tiny and will not meet its published specs.

Sunfire is in a kind of no-mans-land business wise with its subs and speakers.
The DefTech SCIII is a very modest performer which is what you can expect for something so tiny.
The Dynaudio is not only obscure but weighs a whopping 22 pounds or about 60% less than the SVS SB-12 NSD.

The Emotiva Ultra 12 is a good buy at $379 and just fine for a music sub.

So, if you want the most bang for the buck, the $379 Emotiva is it. There isn't much rhyme or reason to the list and most of the models are overpriced for what you get.

Caveat Emptor

You're actually saying something good about the Ultra 12? That has to be a first...

You're very welcome. Hope you find something that works for you.

Note that there is indeed "rhyme or reason" to my list; it's based upon what you requested. Every one of those are good subwoofers, but your needs will dictate what is best for you. Some of them are better values, some better performance, some better companies, but all in line with what you specified. Most can be had for a discount over MSRP too, which is a bonus.

You'll probably get other suggestions as well, but at least that's a good place to start.

I run a Velodyne SPL-1200 in a room just a bit smaller then yours with a pair of bookshelves. It is strictly for music and the Velodyne sounds extremely good. It is very punchy and clean. You could also get away with the smaller 10" MiniVee.

I tried my SVS SB12-NSD in that room and it didn't sound as good as the Velodyne. The Velodyne really adds a lot of clean definition to bass notes in music.

+1. This is a fantastic sub for small-medium rooms.

Interesting. My bedroom is around the same size and I am only using an Emotiva Ultra 10 (10" sealed) in my 2.1 setup. I find that it performs really well in that room with music and digs fairly deep (perhaps due to room gain). My SB12nsd would rock that room with no problem. It digs deeper and plays a bit louder with less effort.

That said, I think the $379 Ultra 12 would be your best best in terms of value. My Ultra 10 is a great music sub and I can only imagine that the Ultra 12 is even better.

If you want more flexibilty and a smaller footprint, the Ref-X 10 can be had for $500 and should have the same or better performance over the Ultra 12.

Output wise, the Velo and SVS are close. The Velo does sound better though. It was immediately noticeable. Not saying the SVS sounds bad or muddy but the Velo is definitely a step above.

Hmm, perhaps different rooms, different results. You are currently using the SB12nsd with a PB12plus right?

Yes, I have the SB12nsd with the PB12plus. I have the sb at the front. I wanted to get another pb12plus but it wouldn't fit in my front stage. The sb12 is doing a nice job up front. The pb12 plus is near field and the sb fills in the front stage nicely. The combo sounds good to me.

Audioholics reviewed the Velodyne SPL-1200 Series 2 in April of 2004. The MSRP at that time was $1500. The reviewer found the Velo very musical. Never the less, given that the SVS SB-12NSD sells for $679, it is not exactly a fair comparison.

A much closer comparison would be the SPL-1200 and the SVS SB-13 Plus that sells for $1199 delivered.

"Good" by what standard? Obscure reviews? Even then, regarding the $582 Axiom EP175, one reviewer had to try to explain the substantially overblown specs provided by Axiom:

"The EP175, compared to many contemporary HT subs, seems a tad lightweight. Its 9db down point is given as 22Hz, but I'm sure that's in the ideal room, in the single best position, and with a tail wind. I suspect 30Hz is more like it."

So, in your opinion a $582 subwoofer that is down 9 db at 30 Hz is "good". At what frequency do you think the EP175 is at the half power point, (minus 3db)? 35 Hz? 40 Hz? 45 Hz?

And how do you propose that potential buyers sort out the various strengths and weaknesses of these subs? By reading the very mixed reviews on the company web site?

I couldn't in good conscious recommend the $582 Axiom EP175 to anyone.

A small subset of quotes from a small subset of reviews on a small subset of the subwoofers I mentioned is not even worthy of a reply. You live in the world of sound bites and numbers far too much.

Then get the Emotiva for your library and save the money towards a bigger and better sub for your main room