or Connect
AVS › AVS Forum › Display Devices › Digital Projectors - Under $3,000 USD MSRP › The Official Acer H9500BD Thread
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

The Official Acer H9500BD Thread - Page 6

post #151 of 4744
I've been really happy with the H5360 also, although I was at first a little frustrated by Acer's funky menu settings. For example, it doesn't actually have a setting to turn brilliant color on/off. It appears to go off when switched between say "standard" and "movie", which works, but was really confusing initially.

So the 9500 has a specific BC setting???
post #152 of 4744
coderguy, could you add this model to your calculator?

I'm wondering how high you can shelf mount and use vertical lens shift.
post #153 of 4744
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joesyah View Post

The review has been posted guys http://www.projectorreviews.com/acer/h9500bd/index.php . OMG it destroys the 3010 in contrast easily! Seems a few clicks a head of the Optoma hd33 as well.

the review seems like a mixed bag. I'd have like to see grey scale adjustments for 3x the price of the 5360, but it's good to see FI and DI even if it sounds like the DI is a little slow.

I am surprised to hear about the low output in 3D mode considering how bright it is in 2D. no mention of the color wheel speed?

The BenQ W7000 prices haven't been released and are in a different price category, but it's sounding like this would be the 'dedicated 3D projector' to beat if one is looking for all the features of the BenQ including the excellent lens shift for HP owners and fast color wheel speed.
post #154 of 4744
Quote:


Most likely you should chose a white surface with gain up to 1.5 for this Epson, or a high contrast gray surface, if your layout benefits from it.

http://www.projectorreviews.com/acer...bd/screens.php
"If I made you feel second best
PJ I'm sorry I was blind
You were always on my mind ,You were always on my mind"
post #155 of 4744
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joesyah View Post

The review has been posted guys http://www.projectorreviews.com/acer/h9500bd/index.php . OMG it destroys the 3010 in contrast easily! Seems a few clicks a head of the Optoma hd33 as well.

You noticed that too eh? Just looking at the lower right quadrant of those pictures it is clear what is going on. And that area on the 3010 also reveals the "softness" that I am not jumping up and down about with my 8350 image. I don't suppose they were able to calibrate the "pop" into the 3010. The 9500 appears to meet my requirements and I am not too concerned about the grayscale adjustment based on the review. And I believe I can do that with my AVR with it's ISF certified video processor. Now to catch it on a good sale.
post #156 of 4744
This sounds like a very solid projector for what you get:
DI, CFI (although I would never use this for movies, only sports), lens shift, blacks/shadow much stronger than the HD33 and Epson 3010, a pair of glasses. Very sharp image. Not much here not to like.

From Art's review, I have two concerns. He refers to the picture being "lively" and mentions using brilliant color several times to get more accurate colors. Not sure how I feel about this. I tend to like a more natural looking image and I tend to be a little more anal about color accuracy vs sharpness. I am just worried the PQ will look a little to "processed" to my liking.

From his review:
"Brilliant Color when on does add a lot of dynamic pop to the image, but skin tones appear oversaturated, and transitions in shades of skin are coarse by comparison."

And in terms of 3D brightness, it sounds like the Acer does not measure up to my current projector, the Epson 3010.

He also said this:

Art said this:
"For a 100" diagonal, the Acer can get by, but brighter projectors in 3D (since the glasses cost so much in brightness - about 75%), like the Epson or the Panasonic PT-AE7000, have the advantage. Overall color in 3D was good, not great, once processed through the glasses."

Which raises some concerns to me as how the Acer would handle 3D on a 125-130" diagonal screen. I think 2D brightness will be fine, but will it have enough lumens to drive a bigger screen.

I am tempted to take my 3010 back, I believe I am at the very tail in for my return period at Best Buy, and pick this one up to compare and go with the one I like better. Seems like the Acer has a number of strengths, and they may outweigh the negatives.

Glad to see a projector with lens shift that puts out a solid picture and supports 3D for under $2K.
post #157 of 4744
Quote:
Originally Posted by ack_bk View Post

This sounds like a very solid projector for what you get:
DI, CFI (although I would never use this for movies, only sports), lens shift, blacks/shadow much stronger than the HD33 and Epson 3010, a pair of glasses. Very sharp image. Not much here not to like.

From Art's review, I have two concerns. He refers to the picture being "lively" and mentions using brilliant color several times to get more accurate colors. Not sure how I feel about this. I tend to like a more natural looking image and I tend to be a little more anal about color accuracy vs sharpness. I am just worried the PQ will look a little to "processed" to my liking.

From his review:
"Brilliant Color when on does add a lot of dynamic pop to the image, but skin tones appear oversaturated, and transitions in shades of skin are coarse by comparison."

And in terms of 3D brightness, it sounds like the Acer does not measure up to my current projector, the Epson 3010.

He also said this:

Art said this:
"For a 100" diagonal, the Acer can get by, but brighter projectors in 3D (since the glasses cost so much in brightness - about 75%), like the Epson or the Panasonic PT-AE7000, have the advantage. Overall color in 3D was good, not great, once processed through the glasses."

Which raises some concerns to me as how the Acer would handle 3D on a 125-130" diagonal screen. I think 2D brightness will be fine, but will it have enough lumens to drive a bigger screen.

I am tempted to take my 3010 back, I believe I am at the very tail in for my return period at Best Buy, and pick this one up to compare and go with the one I like better. Seems like the Acer has a number of strengths, and they may outweigh the negatives.

Glad to see a projector with lens shift that puts out a solid picture and supports 3D for under $2K.

I use a 2.8 HP 120" screen with the 720p 3D Acer so I'd be surprised if the 9500 doesn't work well with it. For 3D I feel a high gain screen is the only way to get satisfactory brightness, especially as the lamps age.
post #158 of 4744
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deja Vu View Post

I use a 2.8 HP 120" screen with the 720p 3D Acer so I'd be surprised if the 9500 doesn't work well with it. For 3D I feel a high gain screen is the only way to get satisfactory brightness, especially as the lamps age.

I can't use an HP screen as I am going AT. Just shooting the 3010 on a temporary wall at 125", it is plenty bright enough for me in 3D. Art may be more sensitive to brightness than me as well, he tends to be more anal than me with black level too.
post #159 of 4744
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post


I am surprised to hear about the low output in 3D mode considering how bright it is in 2D. no mention of the color wheel speed?

Unfortunately it's a 3x wheel according to Newegg (all the way at the bottom), I think same as the 5360. I have the 5360 and don't see any rainbows normally, although I have once or twice with just the right image. I'm probably average on seeing them. 2x wheels definitely bother me. 3x seems to be just enough. I also have a Infocus X10 which is 4x and never see rainbows on it.
post #160 of 4744
I dug up the User's Manual. To answer my own question about turning brilliant color on/off specifically, yes you can, it's in the advanced menu (page 23). More importantly it also allows adjustment of noise reduction and sharpening. The 5360 needs all 3 of those as some of the preset modes have them set differently.
post #161 of 4744
With a 120hz refresh rate, wouldn't this be considered a 6X CW?
ack_bk if I were you I would try it for the sake of putting your mind at ease, as long as you can return either without a lot of hassle.
I have a good feeling the ONLY reason you'd go back to the Epson would be for its brightness. Even then I don't think you'd return when considering the overall difference in IQ.
The difference in contrast alone would have me running back to Best Buy..not walking. lol

Manual
http://www.manualowl.com/m/Acer%20Co.../Manual/223864
post #162 of 4744
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joesyah View Post

With a 120hz refresh rate, wouldn't this be considered a 6X CW?
ack_bk if I were you I would try it for the sake of putting your mind at ease, as long as you can return either without a lot of hassle.
I have a good feeling the ONLY reason you'd go back to the Epson would be for its brightness. Even then I don't think you'd return when considering the overall difference in IQ.
The difference in contrast alone would have me running back to Best Buy..not walking. lol

Manual
http://www.manualowl.com/m/Acer%20Co.../Manual/223864

Brightness and color accuracy and this:

"the price may be that the Acer H9500BD seems to be a little slow, occasionally exhibiting what seems to be a little overshoot and back up (yo-yo effect. We've seen this many times before. This can make it slightly noticeable especially when changing from one scene to another of different brightness."

I had a Mitsubishi projector that had the yo-yo effect iris and it used to drive my nuts.. I noticed it all the time. So far the 3010 has not exhibited this. I am hoping the Acer is pre-production model and the yo-yo effect is either fixed or minimized. Because I don't think I can put up with this again, even if the blacks are better.

To the OP or anyone else who owns this PJ, can you comment on the Iris when changing between dark/light scenes and the yo-yo effect?
post #163 of 4744
Quote:
Originally Posted by ack_bk View Post

This sounds like a very solid projector for what you get:
DI, CFI (although I would never use this for movies, only sports), lens shift, blacks/shadow much stronger than the HD33 and Epson 3010, a pair of glasses. Very sharp image. Not much here not to like.

From Art's review, I have two concerns. He refers to the picture being "lively" and mentions using brilliant color several times to get more accurate colors. Not sure how I feel about this. I tend to like a more natural looking image and I tend to be a little more anal about color accuracy vs sharpness. I am just worried the PQ will look a little to "processed" to my liking.

From his review:
"Brilliant Color when on does add a lot of dynamic pop to the image, but skin tones appear oversaturated, and transitions in shades of skin are coarse by comparison."

And in terms of 3D brightness, it sounds like the Acer does not measure up to my current projector, the Epson 3010.

He also said this:

Art said this:
"For a 100" diagonal, the Acer can get by, but brighter projectors in 3D (since the glasses cost so much in brightness - about 75%), like the Epson or the Panasonic PT-AE7000, have the advantage. Overall color in 3D was good, not great, once processed through the glasses."

Which raises some concerns to me as how the Acer would handle 3D on a 125-130" diagonal screen. I think 2D brightness will be fine, but will it have enough lumens to drive a bigger screen.

I am tempted to take my 3010 back, I believe I am at the very tail in for my return period at Best Buy, and pick this one up to compare and go with the one I like better. Seems like the Acer has a number of strengths, and they may outweigh the negatives.

Glad to see a projector with lens shift that puts out a solid picture and supports 3D for under $2K.

other than better blacks, Art's review seems to suggest that Acer is not as bright as 3010 in 3D and colors are not as vivid as HD33/3010...especially with no calibration controls....throw in the limited warranty and added expense for additional glasses, it will end up costing more than 3010 for sure....
post #164 of 4744
Acer H9500BD vs. its competitors
http://www.projectorreviews.com/acer...ompetitors.php

it takes it to Epson 3010 pages [where he doesnt even compare 3010 with HD33...very annoying !]
post #165 of 4744
The problem with this review is that there is absolutely no mention of "ghosting" -- is that because the is none visible, which I would expect from a DLP. The non-DLP projectors will display some visible "ghosting" and this may or may not be important to some (it is to me).
post #166 of 4744
Quote:
Originally Posted by ack_bk View Post

Brightness and color accuracy and this:

"the price may be that the Acer H9500BD seems to be a little slow, occasionally exhibiting what seems to be a little overshoot and back up (yo-yo effect. We've seen this many times before. This can make it slightly noticeable especially when changing from one scene to another of different brightness."

I had a Mitsubishi projector that had the yo-yo effect iris and it used to drive my nuts.. I noticed it all the time. So far the 3010 has not exhibited this. I am hoping the Acer is pre-production model and the yo-yo effect is either fixed or minimized. Because I don't think I can put up with this again, even if the blacks are better.

To the OP or anyone else who owns this PJ, can you comment on the Iris when changing between dark/light scenes and the yo-yo effect?

Quote:
Originally Posted by falafala View Post

other than better blacks, Art's review seems to suggest that Acer is not as bright as 3010 in 3D and colors are not as vivid as HD33/3010...especially with no calibration controls....throw in the limited warranty and added expense for additional glasses, it will end up costing more than 3010 for sure....

True.. nothing is perfect in life.You can find faults in anything. The one factor I think you guys aren't understanding is, though color accuracy may be off a hair. Colors will be more vivid with more punch on the Acer. Why? Well..it simply has the greater contrast of the three. Contrast affects the colors too. The deeper the contrast, the more saturated the colors.

Hitting the screen with 2000 lumens is only good for 3D. Now if that's all you plan to watch..fine. What about when you watch 2D movies? I have over a thousand of them here on hard drive. I tell you guys, you need something with decent contrast to enjoy most of them. Even the animations look better on a higher contrast projector.

Most of these projectors have a service menu that will allow you to go in and experiment with the Iris. It could be possible to tweak it, if Iris pumping is an issue. The reason you don't see much Iris movement on the Epson 3010 is simple.
The darn thing doesn't have much of an affect on the image. It's not moving much. How do you guys think Epson can get such drastic differences in the contrast from entry level to their top models? If they let the Iris do what it needed to, you'd essential have a 5010 instead of a 3010.
I see fellows stating their image doesn't look washed out. All I would need to do is drop a higher contrast projector in your room and you'd see just how washed out projectors like the 3010 can be for 2D viewing.
You are losing fine details,color vividness,contrast and black level details(shades of black) to gain super high brightness.

The Acer looks to be a nice medium between 2D and 3D. It will no doubt take sales away from some of the higher priced 3D dlps because of it.

@Mikestwocents
Yup..those night train pics do have their purpose! lol..If nothing else, they do tell you the drastic differences in contrast. That's if your monitor at home will allow you to see it.
post #167 of 4744
I have been looking for a good 3D projector that is 1080p and reasonably priced. My viewing situation is the typical ambient lighted walls living room environment. I was thinking about the optoma HD 33/3300, but now is this a "no-brainer"? I know AVS has the HD 3300, but the contrast ratio and thrown in glasses seem like a bargain for a first time prospective buyer. Any thoughts?
post #168 of 4744
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joesyah View Post

@Mikestwocents
Yup..those night train pics do have their purpose! lol..If nothing else, they do tell you the drastic differences in contrast. That's if your monitor at home will allow you to see it.

Joe, I can definitely see every bit of the difference. The way you posted them together like that really shows the difference and to be honest the 3010 looks washed out compared to the other two. What is the most stiking to me though is the detail in the 9500 picture, the sharpness. It spanks the other two if you ask me with the Optoma being next best in that particular comparison. As for calibrating I would simply use my AVR but not sure how good it is. I am going to play with it maybe tonight on my 8350 and see what it can do. Seems nobody else selling this but egg and tiger. I like egg but don't like to pay tax when I do not have to. Anybody find this elsewhere?

Oh, and thanks for getting it up Art. I know it is a work in progress and apparently a cut/paste or template used but appreciate the look.
post #169 of 4744
You can tell the higher contrast in some comparisons if they are way ahead, but it's hard to judge from that image.

Skin tones sound pretty decent overall, but the lack of calibration controls would scare me a bit, and we don't know what controls are in the service menu (maybe someone does and they can post it). Probably not a deal-breaker for some though.

Look at the white part of the train in the Acer image compared to the Mits hc4000, the Acer image is over-exposed. The Mits hc4000 image is more likely closer to the real representation of what he sees on the screen. The Acer has darker blacks than the Mits hc4000, but the image looks better on the hc4000 because of camera exposure. The white balances and the white intensities are not the same in the different images, either due to varying brightness (calibrated 100 IRE), the gamma being off at different points, or because the camera picked each image up at different intensities. To me it looks like a combination of all these issues. Now compare the last image of Sony to the others, the Sony hw30 has triple the native contrast or more and about 9x the dynamic contrast than most of the others on that page, yet the black areas in the shrubbery barely looks darker than the Benq w1200 or Mits hc4000, it's because the colors and white balances are off, as well as the brightness of the image. In reality, the Sony would blow past these in black levels to the N'th degree.

There seems to be a pattern to those images, the brighter projectors are looking more washed out (the Benq w6000 looks washed out), and the Viewsonic looks the most washed out (the Viewsonic and the 3010 are the two brightest projectors of them all in that line-up pretty much).

Another example, the Viewsonic Pro8200 is showing better shadow detail than the Benq w1200 because the Benq w1200 is darker, but in real life the camera limitations or Gamma and white balance could not show this on most monitors and it is EXTREMELY hard to duplicate this between camera shots even if your monitor did show it correctly. Hence, the Benq would actually have the better shadow detail given the calibrations were equal, because other than noise processing or banding issue (which neither the Benq or the Viewsonic have), shadow detail is only determined by Gamma and Native Contrast. The projector with the higher Native Contrast should pretty much always have the better shadow detail given the calibrations are equal, except for the problem you get is that when a projector cannot go dark enough, it can sort of the work the opposite way to the eye in some cases. So this stuff gets pretty confusing when looking at an image. I know for instance, it would be very difficult to get the Viewsonic down to the same Lumens as say the Mits (the Viewsonic's best mode is almost 3x brighter), in order to do so, you'd pretty much have to knock the contrast and brightness way down and mess up the calibration.

I wouldn't judge it by that image, better just to take Art by his word then to try to figure out how much difference there is by an image, even Art would tell you that.
post #170 of 4744
Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

I wouldn't judge it by that image, better just to take Art by his word then to try to figure out how much difference there is by an image, even Art would tell you that.

It seems Art wont really take sides with these PJ's as much as we want him to....

For eg, in 3010 competitor section, he doesn't even compare it with HD33 and even if you read his reviews many times you really dont get a good sense of what the real comparison is between HD33 vs 3010 for example....I had to see it with my own eyes to really get the feel for each....

also I hope he gets a decent camera and posts high resolution images as almost everyone here go by what he posts in his reviews...for example, his HD33 photos dont look anywhere near what guitarman has posted and his 3010 pictures dont look any close to what my eyes show me

may be this is deliberate so that he doesnt come off as promoting one particular one above others ?
post #171 of 4744
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joesyah View Post

With a 120hz refresh rate, wouldn't this be considered a 6X CW?
ack_bk if I were you I would try it for the sake of putting your mind at ease, as long as you can return either without a lot of hassle.
I have a good feeling the ONLY reason you'd go back to the Epson would be for its brightness. Even then I don't think you'd return when considering the overall difference in IQ.
The difference in contrast alone would have me running back to Best Buy..not walking. lol

Manual
http://www.manualowl.com/m/Acer%20Co.../Manual/223864

Joesyah did you see both 3010 vs 9500 in action ? how about HD33 ?
post #172 of 4744
?
Quote:
Originally Posted by CHUCKCHILLOUT View Post

I have been looking for a good 3D projector that is 1080p and reasonably priced. My viewing situation is the typical ambient lighted walls living room environment. I was thinking about the optoma HD 33/3300, but now is this a "no-brainer"? I know AVS has the HD 3300, but the contrast ratio and thrown in glasses seem like a bargain for a first time prospective buyer. Any thoughts?

In 2d this ought to be pretty good. I use my DLP TV for full blown light and no PJ is going to compare to a TV in those conditions. Now I view this review from Art as favorable for the 9500. Just remember that PJ viewing is not the same as TV viewing with lights on or ambient light. Turn down the lights or get light control and enjoy. As for the negative comments about gray scale adjustments, how many people with entry level PJs calibrate their units? If not, there are multiple display modes to try and most were pretty good. Anyone with a decent AVR with a good video processor ought to be able to calibrate gray scale on this 9500. It seems to me that Acer has decided that if you buy this unit you have some kit anyway. Makes sense to me because I have some kit and should be able to do it. It would be nice if this was available in the PJ but not a showstopper for me. A lot of these manufacturers set these things up so they do a good job right out of the box. It looks like according to Art's review that Acer has gone for more of the "showroom" setting which a lot of entry level folks prefer and may not be a problem for most people except the most demanding videophiles who probably ought to look elsewhere anyway.

Now Art gives the impression that videophiles may not be happy with this unit. Well a lot of videophiles have audiophile type equipment that has good videophile processing. We shall see how this turns out if I can get my hands on a unit at a price I like. Maybe Art needs to get a good audio unit that has a good video processor and go from there, but then it would no longer be a projector review site only now would it? Just out of curiousity Art, what kind of sound system are you using?
post #173 of 4744
People can also calibrate gray scale with an HTPC.

You must have a really expensive AVR though to have a full blown video processor in it. Most people have said there are too many issues trying to calibrate with an AVR, which is why people buy the Lumagens. Worth a shot though.
post #174 of 4744
Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

You can tell the higher contrast in some comparisons if they are way ahead, but it's hard to judge from that image.

Skin tones sound pretty decent overall, but the lack of calibration controls would scare me a bit, and we don't know what controls are in the service menu (maybe someone does and they can post it). Probably not a deal-breaker for some though.

Look at the white part of the train in the Acer image compared to the Mits hc4000, the Acer image is over-exposed. The Mits hc4000 image is more likely closer to the real representation of what he sees on the screen. The Acer has darker blacks than the Mits hc4000, but the image looks better on the hc4000 because of camera exposure. The white balances and the white intensities are not the same in the different images, either due to varying brightness (calibrated 100 IRE), the gamma being off at different points, or because the camera picked each image up at different intensities. To me it looks like a combination of all these issues. Now compare the last image of Sony to the others, the Sony hw30 has triple the native contrast or more and about 9x the dynamic contrast than most of the others on that page, yet the black areas in the shrubbery barely looks darker than the Benq w1200 or Mits hc4000, it's because the colors and white balances are off, as well as the brightness of the image. In reality, the Sony would blow past these in black levels to the N'th degree.

There seems to be a pattern to those images, the brighter projectors are looking more washed out (the Benq w6000 looks washed out), and the Viewsonic looks the most washed out (the Viewsonic and the 3010 are the two brightest projectors of them all in that line-up pretty much).

Another example, the Viewsonic Pro8200 is showing better shadow detail than the Benq w1200 because the Benq w1200 is darker, but in real life the camera limitations or Gamma and white balance could not show this on most monitors and it is EXTREMELY hard to duplicate this between camera shots even if your monitor did show it correctly. Hence, the Benq would actually have the better shadow detail given the calibrations were equal, because other than noise processing or banding issue (which neither the Benq or the Viewsonic have), shadow detail is only determined by Gamma and Native Contrast. The projector with the higher Native Contrast should pretty much always have the better shadow detail given the calibrations are equal, except for the problem you get is that when a projector cannot go dark enough, it can sort of the work the opposite way to the eye in some cases. So this stuff gets pretty confusing when looking at an image. I know for instance, it would be very difficult to get the Viewsonic down to the same Lumens as say the Mits (the Viewsonic's best mode is almost 3x brighter), in order to do so, you'd pretty much have to knock the contrast and brightness way down and mess up the calibration.

I wouldn't judge it by that image, better just to take Art by his word then to try to figure out how much difference there is by an image, even Art would tell you that.


Here on my monitor, the Benq is brighter than most. It however doesn't look washed out. It doesn't have the haze you see with the 3010 or the HD33.
Again..your monitor allows you to see the differences.
I'll give you in order from best to worst contrast in that comparison, just by the pics.

The Sony has the deepest contrast just from what I see here. That would be without looking at any spec's. Next is the Benq w6000 and the Acer 9500. The Mits 4000 comes in at number four and on it 's heels is the Benq w1200 with a slight bit of haze. The Optoma HD33 comes in 6th, the haze is growing.The Viewsonic 8200 is next and last is the Epson with a huge amount of haze in this scene.
The 8200 and the Optoma are more similar than different in these pics as far as the contrast goes..it would be a toss up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by falafala View Post

Joesyah did you see both 3010 vs 9500 in action ? how about HD33 ?

No I haven't seen the 3010. I've installed the 8350 several times. It has better contrast than the 3010 and I find it hazy.
post #175 of 4744
It may show some difference by comparing the darkness of the black to the surroundings, but you can't judge the amount of difference between images with such different exposure levels. If the exposure levels were closer, I'd say go for it, but they are too different. There is obvious clipping in some of the images.

It might show the winners and losers to some degree in the black area, but it doesn't show the overall level of variation, and the ones that are closer in contrast (the bottom half), it is too hard to judge because the exposures are so far off. Look how much shadow detail the Benq w1200 is missing in the bottom right, that is a calibration issue or the way the camera took the shot. Simply a difference in gamma and exposure.
post #176 of 4744
Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

It may show some difference by comparing the darkness of the black to the surroundings, but you can't judge the amount of difference between images with such different exposure levels. If the exposure levels were closer, I'd say go for it, but they are too different. There is obvious clipping in some of the images.

It might show the winners and losers to some degree in the black area, but it doesn't show the overall level of variation, and the ones that are closer in contrast (the bottom half), it is too hard to judge because the exposures are so far off. Look how much shadow detail the Benq w1200 is missing in the bottom right, that is a calibration issue or the way the camera took the shot. Simply a difference in gamma and exposure.

LOl..maybe that w1200 is just missing shadow detail, in these particular images. What's the chance Art attempted to take them at the same exposure? I'm thinking he tried 99% of the time here. If he didn't it wouldn't make much sense to do the shadow detail shots to begin with. He states they do a basic calibration of all the projectors. They've done enough for me not to think his calibrator doesn't know what he is doing.

My w1000 has plenty of shadow detail. Guess what it still looks like sh@t in those darker scenes. And yes the haze is there. You can see it by eye and you can see it in the pics. A 2000:1 projector has haze in those darker scenes. You can calibrate it till your eyes fall out..it will still have haze.

The 3010 is probably around 1500:1 on average.

I'm looking at the the degree of haze..I'm not looking at how bright the pic is or how dark it is. Just the haze.

I took similar pics at the same exposure and at different exposures. Guess what my friend, the haze is still there to a much greater degree in the lower contrast projector.

Do me a favor, when you get your new projector. Take some 1 or 2 second exposures of both on the same scene, with the same camera. One of them is going to be a hell of a lot hazier than the other.

And yeah it doesn't matter if it is a dark scene, bright scene or mixed scene...got haze bro.

Maybe I'm more sensitive to this than others, or maybe certain people can't see it or don't want to..I don't know.

The camera can't give indications of overall image quality. It sure can show the contrast level differences if all the other parameters are set equally.
post #177 of 4744
Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

People can also calibrate gray scale with an HTPC.

You must have a really expensive AVR though to have a full blown video processor in it. Most people have said there are too many issues trying to calibrate with an AVR, which is why people buy the Lumagens. Worth a shot though.

I don't know about all that, though the unit offers a lot for what I paid. It is not Onkyo's best but it is not a low end one either. I do not consider myself an audiophile or videophile. More of a loudophile is why I got the 809. Glad it came with the calibration stuff it has. I have not used it yet because there is only one user setting for the Custom ISF and obviously my DLP TV and 3LCD PJ will not like the same settings. If I get the 9500 that will likely change as I can run direct/through for the Samsung and calibrate it with the TV settings, and use the Custom setting for the 9500.

I believe the AVR can fix any shortcomings in the 9500 but have not used it yet. You tell me what you think based on the following screen shots from the display setting menu I threw up on my DLP TV. I will be playing with the Custom settings later to see what it looks like for gray scale on the Samsung DLP and the AVS calibration disc. Thanks and excuse the poor quality pics, just wanted to grab the images to illustrate the menu..





post #178 of 4744
So is there only one forum member that owns this unit? It seems that besides the colors and limited grayscale calibration this should compete quite heavily with the HD33 and 3010. Hopefully more owners pop in and add their observations.
post #179 of 4744
Quote:
Originally Posted by ack_bk View Post

I can't use an HP screen as I am going AT. Just shooting the 3010 on a temporary wall at 125", it is plenty bright enough for me in 3D. Art may be more sensitive to brightness than me as well, he tends to be more anal than me with black level too.

On a 1.0 or 1.1 gain AT screen I would be concerned with brightness for 3D at the 125" size using a 3010. For that size screen and gain, I would want over 2,500 lumens for 3D.
Reply
Reply
post #180 of 4744
Yeah, this is a new unit and so far I have only found it at Egg and Tiger.

I answered my own question from my last post. I just calibrated my AVR for my DLP TV. Well at least the quick HD TV calibration part. I stumbled a bit with the color/tint portion as the AVR does not have those settings but rather I used hue and saturation and got by just fine thanks to the blue screen mode. Of course I am going to need a bit more equipment to do a full blown calibration on that or a PJ to properly do the RGB portion, but I am pleased with the results of the AVR. So that shortcoming of the PJ is a non issue for me. BTW, I got awesome black levels and dark detail on my TV lol.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
AVS › AVS Forum › Display Devices › Digital Projectors - Under $3,000 USD MSRP › The Official Acer H9500BD Thread