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The Official Acer H9500BD Thread - Page 9

post #241 of 4744
Well the images I posted earlier are just about what I am looking at right now with my Epson and my DLP TV. There, I am viewing it with my own eyes and and it is uncanny how much the Epson resembles Art's pictures so I guess he took very good pictures of them after all. I know the 5010 is used here but the 8350 is very similar.
Also uncanny is how closely my TV matches the 9500 image. I see the same difference in overall color (tone?) right here on my displays as I do in the below pictures. Finally, at least for me, my Epson does not show as detailed an image as my smaller DLP TV does and all of the arguing about it will not change my mind. I am literally staring at it. Having said that, the Epson looks good and I would have been fine with it except for these pictures that point out a weakness in my PJ that I do not like. The devil is in the details, and here it is on the tracks and every tree in that scene. Oh, and those pictures actually are a pretty good representation after all in my opinion. What they show is exactly what I see here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikes2cents View Post


post #242 of 4744
Quote:
Originally Posted by ack_bk View Post

And if you are a videophile, well, I doubt you would be happy with any of the budget models.

nope, there is not cost goalpost for being a videophile , sorry ,if there was who gets to say where it starts.
post #243 of 4744
Quote:
Originally Posted by falafala View Post

oh....if you add in 2 year 3rd party warranty and additional pair of glasses (to equalize the 2 major items between the two) you are looking at $300-400 cost difference at the very least....Art is 100% right in his advice to look out for a good warranty, so for me thats very important metric....HD3300 has better warranty for this extra cost

also 3D brightness on 3010 will more than compensate for lower contrast....in 3D its more important to have as many lumens as you can get as perceived contrast will be better as glasses are darker and more lumens will allow for improvement in perceived contrast via high contrast gray screen. More lumens will also mean you have watchable 3D for longer time as lamps inevitably dim.

ofcourse, one can always find pros-and-cons for each of these budget 3D PJs...and I am not here to sell 3010

You are definately right about that. The warranty is too short. My Acer 5360 just ran out of warranty and its a bit disconcerting although its running like a champ.

Also, agree with you on the brightness, although it has to be qualified a bit. Art doesn't give any numbers for the 3D brightness, just his personal impressions. I will wait for a reviewer to do this, and morever, what kind of mode are these projectors providing the 3D, some whacked out mode with blown out colors, I don't want that. Accuracy is still important in 3D.

I will say that my priority for 3D is:
1. Crosstalk
2. Brightness
...everything else is pretty far down the list, including resolution.
post #244 of 4744
Well, I decided after much reading to roll the dice on the Acer H9500BD. I had looked at the Epson 3010, and Optoma HD3300, but I think that the risk reward maybe bigger with the Acer. I just ordered from Newegg and purchased the 2 year extended just in case. I sure am excited, there has been a lot of deliberation.

Between the 3010, HD33/3300 and the Acer, they are very close I'm sure, but I can't see any of them until I get one in my place. The fact the Acer has a lot of features for the price, includes a pair of glasses and potentially has great blacks is too hard to pass up.
post #245 of 4744
This projector interests me. I'm posting here to say that I'm very confused after reading several pages of posts. It sounds like there are only one or two people here who actually own (or have seen) this projector. Is that correct? If so, I'm quite taken aback by the number of negative posts I'm seeing here by people who have never seen this projector, in comparison to threads dedicated to other projectors.

Regarding the "videophile" comments, I've long considered myself to be a videophile, but I know that my level of expertise is nowhere near the true experts in this arena. I simply consider myself to be a "videophile" compared to the average person. I know enough about video technology so as to want to get the best quality picture out of my devices, to not choose obviously inferior equipment, and to be knowledgeable about what the various mediums have to offer (Blu-ray vs compressed cable TV HDTV, etc.). But as my signature states, I'm also a realist and someone who considers the story to be much more important than the clarity in delivering that story.

I'm also all about value and looking for deals and what the best "bang for the buck" might be. I have a fairly long history of projector experience, in terms of number of years, but probably have much less experience compared to many here in terms of the number of projectors I've personally experienced. I'll just close this point with this: I think people get too caught up with comparing these projectors on every tiny data point. For me, I want a good value, the features I'm looking for, easy setup and placement flexibility, and PQ that is the best PQ that can be offered while still providing all of those previous dot-points. If you have money to burn, then by all means, be super-critical of all of the PQ dot-points. But we're talking here about sub-$2000 projectors, so that seems a bit silly to me.

So on to some questions...

1) Who here actually owns or has used this projector? I'd like to know just so I know who to direct questions to.

2) Has any data come in in regards to gaming performance? I am not a "gamer" but I've "gamed" in my youth and own an XBox 360, and since the number of 3D Blu-ray discs is not huge, I'm thinking it would be worthwhile to consider this dot-point. And how do the other competitors (Optoma HD33, Epson 3010) score in this regard?
post #246 of 4744
Quote:
Originally Posted by CHUCKCHILLOUT View Post

Well, I decided after much reading to roll the dice on the Acer H9500BD. I had looked at the Epson 3010, and Optoma HD3300, but I think that the risk reward maybe bigger with the Acer. I just ordered from Newegg and purchased the 2 year extended just in case. I sure am excited, there has been a lot of deliberation.

Between the 3010, HD33/3300 and the Acer, they are very close I'm sure, but I can't see any of them until I get one in my place. The fact the Acer has a lot of features for the price, includes a pair of glasses and potentially has great blacks is too hard to pass up.

Thats great! I think this one is gonna be a hit just like the Acer 5360. And to think that the Sharp 17K came out a year ago at about $4500 with virtually the same feature set. This Acer is probably even brighter in 3D. Gotta love the value proposition lately!
post #247 of 4744
I think 1 person who posted here owns this unit. This would be a very short thread if we left it up to his comments. He is a busy person. I would have one on the way but I am not going to pay egg sales tax of 9.5% and I was hoping to see some black friday deals...no love. I am waiting to see what happens cybermonday and hoping Amazon will get this in and beat tiger out. It is on the way to Amazon though. Congrats chuckchillout.

Now, I am a detailophile at times. So when a review stated the unit could not calibrate grayscale I accepted that. Today I had time on my hands besides running out and getting a copy of Casino Royale to put this picture mess to bed in my mind. It is a good movie so no problem. While I do not own the 9500 I can say that the pictures of it on the train scene looks very close to what I see on my DLP TV and that is very good news for prospective buyers. If I have to explain why to a FPJ buyer you probably don't need the answer and can just go ahead and buy. Now back to this calibration business. I decided I would try to find out why the 9500 cannot calibrate grayscale. I did not know. It seems you need to be able to adjust "RGB Contrast/Brightness, RGB Gain/Bias, RGB Gain/Offset, RGB Drives/Cuts. They all mean the same thing. Contrast, Gains, and Drives are for adjusting the bright end of the gray scale. Brightness, Biases, Offsets, and Cuts are for adjusting the dark end of the gray scale". I took this from Tom Huffman's post in a calibration thread. OK, I looked at my copy of the owner's manual and indeed there is RGB adjustment but just one adjustment, not two for each color like needed, or presumably desired because I did not know. So I decided to see if this was a Acer thing and checked out reviews of other Acer products and found the PC review of the H7531 where they say this:

"Limitations
Color. The first and most immediately evident problem with the H7531D is its default color calibration, which lends a yellow-green cast to the picture. Changing the color temperature through the menu yields one preset with more blue and another with more red, but all have the same yellow-green tinge. We managed to get the H7531D calibrated using our CalMAN calibration rig and an hour or two of fine-tuning. Once calibrated, color accuracy is on par with other projectors in this price range. However, few people are going to go out and spend the money on a professional calibration or the equipment to do so on their own when the projector in question costs less than a thousand bucks. With an inexpensive projector like the H7531D, the projector's default calibration is more important than the final, calibrated image, and it is here that the projector falls short."

What have we here? A calibrated Acer? So I download the 7531 manual and low and behold the CMS is so similar that from a calibrating standpoint it is essentially no different than the 9500. Now I will be the first to admit that I don't know exactly what PC calibrated, and they took some time doing it but they said they got it done. Now take from this what you will. It appears therefore the 9500 should be able to be calibrated using if then reasoning.

So, Art says the 9500 is pretty good out of the box. That should take care of about 90% of buyers and those that choose to fool with the CMS usually end up worse off anyway. Those that do will either have the proper equipment or there is always the reset to factory option. Audiophiles with a good AVR can use the processor in the AVR to do this. Now as to the other major concern with this unit, I would like some feedback from an owner on the 3D brightness level. Art said it should be on par with the HD33 so that should be OK since I do not read any complaints there. I also noticed in the cine4home video of the 9500 that they did not even turn up the brightness control (in the 3d menu) to max when they watched Avatar 3d and made no mention of brightness issues. Art did not mention whether he tried this, or I missed that. So there, don't know if this helps anyone but it helps me. I suggest reading the PC review of the 7531 because it is similar in many ways, though there are also major differences. I suspect the user mode thing they talk about will not have changed in the 9500. And yes, some 240 posts with one owner. This is AVS. There have been other PJs that have had more before they were even released. Go check out the Mits 7800 and Benq 7K threads. They are moving along.
post #248 of 4744
I suspect there is a service menu,I also am excited about this pj,I need to sell 2 or 3 pj,s before I can justify buying this pj..LOL
post #249 of 4744
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikes2cents View Post

I think 1 person who posted here owns this unit. This would be a very short thread if we left it up to his comments. He is a busy person. I would have one on the way but I am not going to pay egg sales tax of 9.5% and I was hoping to see some black friday deals...no love. I am waiting to see what happens cybermonday and hoping Amazon will get this in and beat tiger out. It is on the way to Amazon though. Congrats chuckchillout.

Yes unfortunately folks who start these threads dont have the time to give first hand information (just like on the "My Epson has arrived" thread)....I try to make time to blog as much as I know about what my experiences are in the hope of filling the void....what can I say, I am inspired by guitarman who really did a fantastic job of not only starting the HD3300 thread but took the rest of us in a super detailed guided tour of his own journey of discovery !

Amazon has it listed but form what I have seen for 3010 and HD33, it will take 4-5 weeks AFTER they are sold by others....its very frustrating !

Seeing your excitement I am tempted too, but I ask myself what I didn't like about HD33 that Acer will fulfill....and immediately I think of the warranty and also 3D brightness and the better colors of 3010...(even if I choose to shell out the additional $300-400)...talking about better blacks and contrast, after a week of using 3010 I completely forgot how HD33's blacks looked and I am perfectly happy with lower contrast of 3010 in 3D when Iris is off as I love the extra lumens over perfect blacks....like someone said, unless you see them side-by-side non-videophiles like myself get used to image quality fairly quickly....so I will not yield to my temptation ! If I do yield to it, I will go with HD3300 owing to its superior warranty.

But Mike, I really wish you get this or another one and start enjoying 3D on big screen

So what are your thoughts on the same points ? What do you see in Acer thats not there in HD3300 (which has 3 year replacement plan) ?

I am not trying to dissuade you, but want to genuinely understand what your thinking is in choosing 9500 over 3300 ?
post #250 of 4744
Quote:
Originally Posted by eat meat View Post

I suspect there is a service menu,I also am excited about this pj,I need to sell 2 or 3 pj,s before I can justify buying this pj..LOL

I am sure there is but I suspect you can calibrate the unit otherwise, just more work. They did it with the 7531 and made no mention of service menu. Do you have calibration equipment?
post #251 of 4744
Thread Starter 
Well I'm actually starting to regret ever starting the thread at all. From the number of complaints in the thread, as well as a number of PM's I've received, It looks like some folks would rather I had posted nothing at all.
post #252 of 4744
Remember that some credit card companies double the manufacturer's warranty. Chase Freedom I know is one, I believe those with AMEX have it as well.
post #253 of 4744
Thread Starter 
I've actually had a chance to play around with the projector a little tonight, and this one thing I'll say is that the iris movement is way to noticebale on high. The medium setting seems a lot better.
post #254 of 4744
Quote:
Originally Posted by TimShadler View Post

Well I'm actually starting to regret ever starting the thread at all. From the number of complaints in the thread, as well as a number of PM's I've received, It looks like some folks would rather I had posted nothing at all.

Mike congrats and thanks for starting this thread. The review confirmed it is a great PJ and lens shift for a dlp at this price wow
post #255 of 4744
Thread Starter 
First time taking pictures of a projector in action. I didn't pause the screen, which looking back was something I need to do. Anyway here are a couple of the shots. The pictures seem to have a blueish tint that wasnt visible live.







post #256 of 4744
Quote:
Originally Posted by falafala View Post

But Mike, I really wish you get this or another one and start enjoying 3D on big screen

So what are your thoughts on the same points ? What do you see in Acer thats not there in HD3300 (which has 3 year replacement plan) ?

I am not trying to dissuade you, but want to genuinely understand what your thinking is in choosing 9500 over 3300 ?

Falafala, because I do not know your name, and mine is obviously Mike, it is really quite simple for me. I currently have the ability to watch 3D on my 61" DLP TV. So while I yearn for the big screen 3D it is not a rush for me as my cable provider, Charter, sucks in this regard. No content whatsoever. Now why did I not get the 3010 besides the fact I have DLP link glasses? Convergence and pop. I suggest you look at the Casino Royale train scene I spoke of earlier and draw your own conclusion. I always suspected there was something missing with my 8350 despite a very good picture and I found something that exposed it despite pretty good convergence. That is a done deal in my eyes.

Now as for the HD3300, I agree the warranty is very good. I also cannot dismiss how good the 9500 looks compared to my DLP TV in that same scene. That is no small feat. I know it is one scene but it says a lot about the unit and I have confirmed to myself at least that those pics are a fair representation of what is going on despite naysayers. IOWs any PJ that can look as good as my TV is a strong prospect. I do need to revisit the HD33 pics to compare but I like the contrast of the 9500, it has 2d to 3d conversion and FI as well as a DI that works in 3d. After my calibration discovery I begin to suspect what some reviewers say about these units except for one thing, out of the box the 9500 looks pretty good.

So thanks for the encouragement. Time is on my side as I can watch flawless 3d on my TV. I just do not want to be replacing the PJ in 6 months because there is something better. I already need to sell my 8350 which BTW is a very good PJ. There are things in life like offspring college tuition that really interferes with this sort of hobby and therefore I need to choose wisely.
post #257 of 4744
Quote:
Originally Posted by TimShadler View Post

Well I'm actually starting to regret ever starting the thread at all. From the number of complaints in the thread, as well as a number of PM's I've received, It looks like some folks would rather I had posted nothing at all.

No worries Tim. Answer whatever questions you like. You owe us nothing. Now if you want to answer questions, I think top on the list is how bright the unit is in 3d and did you try the brightness slider in that mode. Also what screen are you using and how far away would be very helpful.
Edit: note how I did not ask how the unit does in 3D except for brightness. We all know DLP does 3D right.
post #258 of 4744
I added the Acer 9500bd to the calculator, but I'm not 100% sure if I have all the numbers correct since they are based on ProjectorReviews.com's numbers and data.

I need to see the manual, anyone have the user manual link handy?
post #259 of 4744
Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

I added the Acer 9500bd to the calculator, but I'm not 100% sure if I have all the numbers correct since they are based on ProjectorReviews.com's numbers and data.

I need to see the manual, anyone have the user manual link handy?

http://www.manualowl.com/m/Acer%20Co.../Manual/223864
post #260 of 4744
Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

I added the Acer 9500bd to the calculator, but I'm not 100% sure if I have all the numbers correct since they are based on ProjectorReviews.com's numbers and data.

I need to see the manual, anyone have the user manual link handy?

Here you go. Link.Never mind, my link appears to be broken though that is where I got the manual straight from the Acer site.
post #261 of 4744
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikes2cents View Post

No worries Tim. Answer whatever questions you like. You owe us nothing. Now if you want to answer questions, I think top on the list is how bright the unit is in 3d and did you try the brightness slider in that mode. Also what screen are you using and how far away would be very helpful.
Edit: note how I did not ask how the unit does in 3D except for brightness. We all know DLP does 3D right.

Tim as someone who has the 9500 on my short list, I am curious about 3D brightness as well. Posting your screen size will be helpful as well. Pretty much echo what Mike is asking.
post #262 of 4744
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikes2cents View Post

I think 1 person who posted here owns this unit. This would be a very short thread if we left it up to his comments. He is a busy person. I would have one on the way but I am not going to pay egg sales tax of 9.5% and I was hoping to see some black friday deals...no love. I am waiting to see what happens cybermonday and hoping Amazon will get this in and beat tiger out. It is on the way to Amazon though. Congrats chuckchillout.

Now, I am a detailophile at times. So when a review stated the unit could not calibrate grayscale I accepted that. Today I had time on my hands besides running out and getting a copy of Casino Royale to put this picture mess to bed in my mind. It is a good movie so no problem. While I do not own the 9500 I can say that the pictures of it on the train scene looks very close to what I see on my DLP TV and that is very good news for prospective buyers. If I have to explain why to a FPJ buyer you probably don't need the answer and can just go ahead and buy. Now back to this calibration business. I decided I would try to find out why the 9500 cannot calibrate grayscale. I did not know. It seems you need to be able to adjust "RGB Contrast/Brightness, RGB Gain/Bias, RGB Gain/Offset, RGB Drives/Cuts. They all mean the same thing. Contrast, Gains, and Drives are for adjusting the bright end of the gray scale. Brightness, Biases, Offsets, and Cuts are for adjusting the dark end of the gray scale". I took this from Tom Huffman's post in a calibration thread. OK, I looked at my copy of the owner's manual and indeed there is RGB adjustment but just one adjustment, not two for each color like needed, or presumably desired because I did not know. So I decided to see if this was a Acer thing and checked out reviews of other Acer products and found the PC review of the H7531 where they say this:

"Limitations
Color. The first and most immediately evident problem with the H7531D is its default color calibration, which lends a yellow-green cast to the picture. Changing the color temperature through the menu yields one preset with more blue and another with more red, but all have the same yellow-green tinge. We managed to get the H7531D calibrated using our CalMAN calibration rig and an hour or two of fine-tuning. Once calibrated, color accuracy is on par with other projectors in this price range. However, few people are going to go out and spend the money on a professional calibration or the equipment to do so on their own when the projector in question costs less than a thousand bucks. With an inexpensive projector like the H7531D, the projector's default calibration is more important than the final, calibrated image, and it is here that the projector falls short."

What have we here? A calibrated Acer? So I download the 7531 manual and low and behold the CMS is so similar that from a calibrating standpoint it is essentially no different than the 9500. Now I will be the first to admit that I don't know exactly what PC calibrated, and they took some time doing it but they said they got it done. Now take from this what you will. It appears therefore the 9500 should be able to be calibrated using if then reasoning.

So, Art says the 9500 is pretty good out of the box. That should take care of about 90% of buyers and those that choose to fool with the CMS usually end up worse off anyway. Those that do will either have the proper equipment or there is always the reset to factory option. Audiophiles with a good AVR can use the processor in the AVR to do this. Now as to the other major concern with this unit, I would like some feedback from an owner on the 3D brightness level. Art said it should be on par with the HD33 so that should be OK since I do not read any complaints there. I also noticed in the cine4home video of the 9500 that they did not even turn up the brightness control (in the 3d menu) to max when they watched Avatar 3d and made no mention of brightness issues. Art did not mention whether he tried this, or I missed that. So there, don't know if this helps anyone but it helps me. I suggest reading the PC review of the 7531 because it is similar in many ways, though there are also major differences. I suspect the user mode thing they talk about will not have changed in the 9500. And yes, some 240 posts with one owner. This is AVS. There have been other PJs that have had more before they were even released. Go check out the Mits 7800 and Benq 7K threads. They are moving along.

I am hoping Amazon gets this as well. Newegg has zero return policy on their projectors. You can only get the same model as a replacement within 30 days. Prett crappy policy. And I refuse to buy from Tigerdirect If I can help it after a rally bad customer service experience. Not sure if their customer service has improved, but a few years ago it was really bad.
post #263 of 4744
OK, I think I have the vertical lens shift figured out, and the data is now fully entered into the calculator for the Acer 9500.

www.eliteprojectorcalculator.com

2.5" above or below a 100" screen should be the correct MINIMUM OFFSET like Art said, so this projector will NOT mount at center-point for a shelf mount setup like the Benq w6000/w7000.

7.5% of a 16:9 diagonal screen appears to be the default offset with no lens shift (15% of screen height), but I had to extrapolate this because the manual gives no information on the default offset.

This is better than the Mits hc7800's offset, because the minimum offset is 5% of screen height on the Acer (2.5" for a 100" screen) instead of 19% of screen height on the Mits (9.3" for a 100" screen).

This means you will get great near max-gain from the Acer with a Da-Lite High Power 2.4 gain screen if table mounted, and still ok gain even if ceiling mounted. Essentially with table mounting and h-shift, you could probably get a max of around 2.2 gain with the Da-Lite High Power 2.4 gain screen, and easily 1.8 gain to 2.0 gain.

I would highly recommend buying the HP screen for this projector if you can table-mount it, this will greatly assist your 3D brightness.
post #264 of 4744
Thread Starter 
I'm shooting onto a 92" .8 black diamond 2 screen from about 11 feet away.
post #265 of 4744
Quote:
Originally Posted by TimShadler View Post

On the whole I am fairly pleased with the unit. Not quite as bright as the Acer H5360, but fairly close. I'm shooting on a 92" black diamond .8 gain screen. I still feel I need more brightness in 3d so I'm thinking about upgrading to the 2.7 gain screen.

Not to imply that you did not, but I was wondering if you tried adjusting the brightness slider in 3D mode. I also wonder if disabling the iris helps or if you even had it on? So it is not as bright as the 5360 in 3D mode then? Would you be willing to try to get into the service menu and tell us what is available there?
post #266 of 4744
Thread Starter 
Didn't try the brightness menu option in 3d mode. I did try it with the iris on and off. The iris does function in 3d mode...haven't viewed enough 3d content one way or another to offer an opinion on which looked best. Compared to the H5360 it was clear the 9500 was not as bright.

If someone can provide documentation on the service menu..I can take a look when I have some free time.
post #267 of 4744
Quote:
Originally Posted by TimShadler View Post

If someone can provide documentation on the service menu..I can take a look when I have some free time.

Got this from coolmo on the 7531 thread. It is for the 7531 but I suspect the 9500 will be the same. Thanks.

Quote:


Just downloaded the service manual for the H7530D. Haven't tried it yet.

4-2 Service Mode
1. Turn on the projector
2. Do the following actions sequentially to get into Service Mode
(1) Press "Power", "Left", "Left" and "Menu" buttons sequentially.
(2) Service Mode will be shown.
(3) Choose "Exit" to leave the Service Mode after confirming the configuration.

Also, of note a couple of those guys in that thread played with the iris settings in there. Just something to look at if you are curious.
post #268 of 4744
Quote:
Originally Posted by TimShadler View Post

Well I'm actually starting to regret ever starting the thread at all. From the number of complaints in the thread, as well as a number of PM's I've received, It looks like some folks would rather I had posted nothing at all.

like Mike2Cents said, you dont owe us anything...infact no one owes any one anything in these threads...

its just that when someone sees the title of this thread as "THE official acer hd9500bd" thread, expectations shoot through the roof

but like others said, what ever you can share is greatly appreciated ! we just want to experience what it feels like owning it through your first hand eyes !
post #269 of 4744
New Minor Update of Calculator Released - Beta 021

Added Acer 9500bd to calculator plus...
Fixes Minor 2.35 Offset Bug and several rounding issues like throw ratio rounding

Complete Bug Fix List and Details Here


@Tim
Don't worry about the complainers, just ignore them, gotta have a thick skin in this forum, people are rude sometimes, many times it's an accident and things come off harsher in writing then they are meant to be.
post #270 of 4744
Quote:
Originally Posted by TimShadler View Post

Didn't try the brightness menu option in 3d mode. I did try it with the iris on and off. The iris does function in 3d mode...haven't viewed enough 3d content one way or another to offer an opinion on which looked best. Compared to the H5360 it was clear the 9500 was not as bright.

If someone can provide documentation on the service menu..I can take a look when I have some free time.

Thanks Tim, I am interested in the brightness menu/slider to see if you can boost the lumens. On the fence with this projector as I have a 125" screen and I am fearful that once the lamp dim, 3D will not be bright enough. That said 95% of my viewing is 2D.. And this projector is plenty bright for that.
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