The Official Acer H9500BD Thread - Page 84

Originally Posted by Mikes2cents

As I said last night, I compared HD viewing from my PC via the dual DVI outputs. One went DVI out to DVI in and the other went DVI out to VGA input 2 on the projector. As I mentioned previously, there is a pixel mapping problem but how bad is it? I will start with Windows desktop viewing and I apologize for my image quality of the pictures but it is good enough to get the idea. My reasons for this are twofold, capture and show it, and send them to Acer. More on that in a later post.

Anyway, here we go. First up is a DVI in desktop image of my display setup page in Windows 7:

Followed by the VGA in image as close as I can get it hand held because my broken tripod is now my 9500 ceiling mount lol:

Here is a closer view of the DVI input:

and then the VGA input:

So there is a lot going on here as one can see. I do not have the best camera but it is easy to see the VGA input trounces the DVI one when the dispay is cloned as you can see. All I did was change the input on the PJ and snap the pic. Now clever viewers will note some other differences that do not immediately jump out but I will see if anyone can figure out what I am talking about. As a clue, the difference is actually in the favor of the DVI input pics that are not as sharp as the VGA ones. It is not a sharpness thing. More to follow shortly.

Originally Posted by Mikes2cents

I am not sure either and that is why I asked if he saw RBE as well. Seems if he was sensitive to dither and was seeing it, then surely he would be seeing RBE because he has eagle eyes or something.

Anyway, I heard back from Acer yesterday and progress on the mapping is slow. More questions about my equipment and settings. That is why I put together the pictures I posted here yesterday. I sent them copies of everything so they know what to do to duplicate my test and see the issue. Not enough complaints about this for them to realize there is something going on.

Originally Posted by Mikes2cents

Anyway, I heard back from Acer yesterday and progress on the mapping is slow.

Originally Posted by Brian Miller

Mike, really appreciate your efforts here. Since you seem to have their attention, can you also ask them about the SBS tearing bug?

Originally Posted by InCali

As soon as we get this project off the ground, I'll do a comparison. I know at least a couple of people out there have both the Sanyo and the Acer. Has anyone else done a comparison??? Has anyone done any gaming on the Sanyo? If so, how well does it work? He'll be using it for TV, Xbox/DVD, and his Mac.

Originally Posted by coderguy

Added:
I meant to add that gaming works well on the Sanyo, they have very little lag.

I've compared a newer Sanyo z4000 to a Mitsubishi hc4000. The Mits hc4000 has an image very much like the Acer except the Mits has no IRIS. The z4000 was a pretty good projector (I was surprised), but it was just too dim for 9 out of 10 peoples setup (you need high gain after 500 hours). The Acer will have more gaming lag though. Basically to keep it short, an older Sanyo vs. Acer, the Acer is better overall, more film-like, higher pixel fill, more punch. Depending on convergence luck, the Acer will probably be quite a bit sharper than the Sanyo, although some Sanyos are really sharp.

The Sanyo might win on blacks (the z4000 would for sure, not sure about the z2000), but it won't be by much. If it is anything like my comparison, some scenes will favor one or the other projector, but overall DLP will walk away the winner in the end.

Originally Posted by Mikes2cents

As I said last night, I compared HD viewing from my PC via the dual DVI outputs. One went DVI out to DVI in and the other went DVI out to VGA input 2 on the projector. As I mentioned previously, there is a pixel mapping problem but how bad is it? I will start with Windows desktop viewing and I apologize for my image quality of the pictures but it is good enough to get the idea. My reasons for this are twofold, capture and show it, and send them to Acer. More on that in a later post.

Anyway, here we go. First up is a DVI in desktop image of my display setup page in Windows 7:



Followed by the VGA in image as close as I can get it hand held because my broken tripod is now my 9500 ceiling mount lol:



Here is a closer view of the DVI input:



and then the VGA input:



So there is a lot going on here as one can see. I do not have the best camera but it is easy to see the VGA input trounces the DVI one when the dispay is cloned as you can see. All I did was change the input on the PJ and snap the pic. Now clever viewers will note some other differences that do not immediately jump out but I will see if anyone can figure out what I am talking about. As a clue, the difference is actually in the favor of the DVI input pics that are not as sharp as the VGA ones. It is not a sharpness thing. More to follow shortly.

Originally Posted by Mikes2cents

As I said last night, I compared HD viewing from my PC via the dual DVI outputs. One went DVI out to DVI in and the other went DVI out to VGA input 2 on the projector. As I mentioned previously, there is a pixel mapping problem but how bad is it? I will start with Windows desktop viewing and I apologize for my image quality of the pictures but it is good enough to get the idea. My reasons for this are twofold, capture and show it, and send them to Acer. More on that in a later post.

Anyway, here we go. First up is a DVI in desktop image of my display setup page in Windows 7:



Followed by the VGA in image as close as I can get it hand held because my broken tripod is now my 9500 ceiling mount lol:



Here is a closer view of the DVI input:



and then the VGA input:



So there is a lot going on here as one can see. I do not have the best camera but it is easy to see the VGA input trounces the DVI one when the dispay is cloned as you can see. All I did was change the input on the PJ and snap the pic. Now clever viewers will note some other differences that do not immediately jump out but I will see if anyone can figure out what I am talking about. As a clue, the difference is actually in the favor of the DVI input pics that are not as sharp as the VGA ones. It is not a sharpness thing. More to follow shortly.

Originally Posted by Mikes2cents

At any rate the 9500 is much sharper than my 8350

Originally Posted by aaranddeeman

Titanic 3D available for preorder... if you wanna be ahead of the curve..

Originally Posted by Dave Mack

Hiya InCali!

I got my friend a Sony ht-ct150 sound bar/subwoofer and for the price it's pretty amazing.

Originally Posted by engkiat

Well done, Mike! Any reply from Acer on this?

Thanks!

Originally Posted by Brian Miller

Mike, really appreciate your efforts here. Since you seem to have their attention, can you also ask them about the SBS tearing bug?

Originally Posted by Mikes2cents

Hello again fellow 9500 owners and prospective buyers. I believe I have gone as far as I can with Acer on this without talking to a VP or CEO which is not quite that easy either. Let me try to summarize because you all know what my complaint was and have seen the pictures.

1. Started out by calling Acer tech spt about the 1:1 pixel mapping that I became aware that BenQ was going to fix on their unit.

2. Did not get the answer I wanted and went to second level support. Acer rep said no complaints here and that prompted me to do the test I did and sent them the pics I did with detailed info on everything in my setup, I mean everything and how to do this test. Response there was that there is some blurring on text via HDMI and that is a design limitation from the TI DMD chip. Chuckles here and I point out that the chip can do it no problem via VGA input so unsatisfactory answer. Have you looked at the pictures? No, but engineers say the problem is not viewable from normal viewing distances. Oh boy, they did not test the VGA side. I ask them to have the engineers duplicate the test I did. Response is that I need to send my unit in so they can duplicate the issue. I tell him they can duplicate the issue with any 9500 ever made and I am not sending mine in. They say that is the solution for me so I ask to escalate my complaint.

3. OK, now we are at the Coporate Customer Care level and I am speaking with a nice lady who has no technical expertise whatsoever and readily admits it but promises to look into things. I describe all above and she promises to call back within the hour. Calls back and basically says Acer engineering has not received any complaints on this and therefore they want me to send my unit in to verify the issue since my unit must be faulty. Pulls hair out now and explains that they do not need my unit, any unit will display this. Nope, I need to send mine in and they will look at it. Grrrr, let me talk to your supervisor. Nope, you are at the end of Acer customer care. Really ma'am? Yessir. Nobody else to talk to about this. No sir, we have offered to look at your unit and if you elect not to have it checked this case is closed. I tell her that I am not done here and have other avenues to pursue and she wishes me a good day.

4. Now I am calling Acer corporate HQs looking to speak with Mark Groveunder, the VP of customer service. This proves to not be an easy task. You simply cannot speak with a VP anytime you want and I know that. So I go through insulation levels and describe why I wish to speak with him. I get transferred to Customer Care at Acer HQ who does not know my last Corporate rep and knows about as much about the issue as the last one did but assured me that she would address my complaint that I supposedly could not make about the last end of the line Corporate Customer Support rep. She listened to my complaint and said it would be sent for internal review among the Acer staff to evaluate including the URL here. I say fine, when can I look to hear back or will you be contacting me? I am told to check the Acer website for updates. WTH Really? I tell her that I am not happy with that and if they cannot do any better I will go to every website selling this projecter and give a bad review and not recommend the unit until I hear news from Acer to the contrary. Well she was not happy with that at all so that made two of us but she could not promise me a response so she said I could call back and check.

Now this post is getting windy so you see how my day went. Try to help a company sell projectors. Sheesh. I will post up my solution here next but I need to take a break and have a beer and cool off as I am getting worked up again over the sheer stupidity of how I wasted too much of my day today.

Originally Posted by Dave Mack

Wow. That's a ton of work. You could always send this to Art and some other projector reviewers. That might get something going

Originally Posted by aaranddeeman


Man.. Two thieves think similar huh..

Originally Posted by Dave Mack

Wow. That's a ton of work. You could always send this to Art and some other projector reviewers. That might get something going

Originally Posted by aaranddeeman

Wow. Just Wow..

I was thinking may be some heavy weight is needed. For example if we convince Evan Powell or Art about this issue and request them to pursue it with Acer or at least mention it. May be they have a reach.. Just my 2c.

Originally Posted by Mikes2cents

Hey guys, all is not lost. You see the problem with information is that it is useless in the wrong hands. I just need to get the information to the right people. That is my problem. I am reminded of what Donald Rumsfeld said post 911 which had me in Uzbekistan in no time flat back in 2001. That is another story but the knows says it all. I will post what is not a direct quote but the best I can which I believe summarizes the problem.

The Knows:

There are things that we know we know.
There are things that we know we do not know.
There are things that we do not know that we do not know.

That is the gist of it and Acer does not know what they do not know. Those are the most dangerous knows because you have no clue. I want to move to the we know that problem exists but we need to get the attention of the proper people, not folks who just placate a customer as best they can and then talk bad about them to their colleagues such as "can you believe how long it took me to get rid of that guy?" Yes, I am all but sure that is what happened because I have been around long enough and I know when I speak at a level above someone's head in customer service they simply want to get rid of me. How much you want to bet Acer Marketing and Sales would be interested in how they could sell at least 2x the units they are now, if not more?

For now I cannot recommend anyone buy this unit until Acer owns this and fixes it. Sorry if you bought one based on my recommendation before but you are still fine. It will still do what it does but it can be better. You don't know it until you see it.

My next step is to ask every owner who has registered their unit with Acer to call tech support and request they fix this issue. You do not even have to have tested this as far as I am concerned, just mention case#1505588U and say you are put out with how this matter was handled especially since I was not looking for anything from Acer except to make the unit better for all of us and help Acer sales. Also try to demand this matter be fixed via user update firmware and not sending the unit in.

As a reminder, the BenQ W7000 had this exact same problem. They are on the verge of correcting it via firmware. That leaves the Acer as the only one with the issue. This from a computer manufacturer. C'mon man.

After all this, I will besmirch the unit at every site that sells it until Acer fixes the issue. Try to help someone out, that'll teach me.

Originally Posted by joepaiii

If Acer has no engineering budget dedicated to revisions of this projector then there is little chance of getting this fixed even if the people who could fix it know about it.

Originally Posted by Mikes2cents

They do not appear to operate that way. Acer seems to respond to owner complaints. If there are not enough of them then they all but dismiss yours and ask that you send your unit in because you are the only one. That is a support protocol thing. Anybody not getting where I am going? Call them up and insist that they test the complaint under case# 1505588U. As for myself, I promise I will continue to try to get through to someone who understands what I am talking about and can appreciate the impact. Thanks.