The Official Acer H9500BD Thread - Page 103

It's ceiling mounted on a beam about 2 feet from the back wall and about 2 feet clearance above it. The ceiling vaults towards the screen so the clearance is a little more at the front of the projector. The sides (where I think most of the heat is exhausted) are completely unencumbered (maybe 8 feet from one wall and 10 from the other??). That's why having some horizontal shift was important to me. I don't have a beam going down the center of the room and the screen is centered in the front. If I moved the screen, it would either block my fridge (a no no as that's where I keep beverages and food) or it would have gotten too close to the cabinets on the other side of the room. I suppose I could have spanned the beams, but didn't really want to go there unless it was unavoidable.

That sounds like a frelling high ceiling.......

lol. tell me about it. there is smoke alarm up there, when batteries were dying i wanted to throw rocks at it instead of finding a ladder that tall and changing it.

Well Guys,

A couple posers for all those with experience with this PJ:

1. When used with a BD-DVD and Cable content, this Acer is considered "average" as far as returns or problem issues?

2. 3D is exceptionally good and the Brightness retained greater than average per Lumen output available?

Persnickety AVS'ers notwithstanding, on average, the Pros do seem to me to outweigh the Cons....but correct me if I'm wrong. I did read that crosstalk and Ghosting are virtually non-existent, but I also read that extra Acer 3D Glasses are likewise hard, if not impossible to find. If such is so, is there a "Best Choice" 3D Glasses alternative that works exceptionally well with the Acer?

I am not sure about 3D brightness, the reviewers have some conflicting info on this. I thought InCali (or someone) was going to use a light meter and measure 3D brightness for us.
The Benq w7000 is the safer bet right now for a little more money (at least until Acer ponies up the pixel mapping fix). The Benq isn't that much more if you buy it from Amazon.

The Acer has no CMS and has a pixel mapping issue and gaming lag. Other than that, it most likely has slightly better black levels than the Benq w7000 (or any other DLP under $3000 right now). The advantage of the Acer is contrast more than anything, but I think they need to fix the pixel mapping before I'd go recommending it.

I can't say for sure whether this PJ is more or less reliable than others. I got two bad ones right off the start and the third one crashed and burned after about a month or so. That being said, my experience isn't typical of other users. I've read about others having problems with the Optoma, Epson, etc. The fact is that we really don't have enough information to know for sure how it stacks up with other PJs as far as reliability goes. Some have had units that didn't function properly and some have what appear to be very reliable units. Wish I could be more help here.

The picture, HDMI "blurring" notwithstanding, is really, really good. It looks sharper than my Sanyo (also an HD PJ), the colors are brighter, the the brightness is great. I don't even have to be in a totally dark room (settings dependent) to have a nice, bright picture (direct light on the screen, however, is a problem). No doubt about that. It may be that I won't be able to tell the difference after the blurring issue is addressed in the new firmware or it may make a noticeable difference. I can't say until I see it. The blurring mainly seems to be most noticeable when looking at a static picture like a desktop or a test picture (or whatever you'd call it) that has very fine lines. There are some examples earlier in the thread. You can probably track them down if you're so inclined.

I've NEVER seen any ghosting at ALL like I do in the IMAX (but I'd take one of those babies in my garage if I could afford it and fit it in there.....). The glasses "used" to be hard to find, but I don't think that's the case anymore. They're kind of ugly, but, hey, everyone else will be wearing them too. The general consensus seems to be that the Optoma and Acer glasses are comparable from a viewing perspective. Others have said that the Optoma glasses give you a little more room if you wear glasses underneath them, but they don't fold. I've never used them and am just going on what others have said. The PJ comes with one pair of glasses.

I don't do gaming, but others have talked about lag. It would be nice if it had better adjustments, but it also has features (V and H shift and Iris) that other projectors at this price point don't. You aren't going to get everything when you purchase an inexpensive PJ.

I think the worst part about the Acer is having to deal with customer service (which I'm going to be doing in a few minutes). It kind of sucks, but, as others have pointed out, this isn't uncommon in an industry where you're working with razor thin profit margins. I only paid $1500 for mine out the door when it was on sale so I can't complain too much I suppose. Still, I'm doing everything I can to squeeze out every bit of performance I can.

On page 102 of this thread, Art Feierman (presenter), who does PJ reviews called the Acer an excellent value (that's a paraphrase I think).


Hope that helps......
Edited by InCali - 6/18/12 at 11:07am

InCali will as soon as he gets his PJ back from Acer repair.

Greetings Incali,

With all the changes to AVS, (and I haven't been here for a while), the system did not let me respond to your private email.

No secrets, though, I have no specifics from Acer, about what exactly is being "fixed" but both blurring, and tearing are at least on their radar.
In your email you also mention delay, or "3D delay". Sorry, I'm not on top of that, I know I did not address any 3D delay issues (or 2D delay issues) to Acer. -art

Going off memory but I am pretty certain the W7000 and the H9500BD have similar input lag times (gaming lag). I know I and another posted a link with input lag time test times in another post which you requested. The H9500BD when tested via laptop is 30ms with 2D, 3D adds lag and know of no 3D input lag tests done. Are you saying that the W7000 has no additional input lag from 2D to 3D? Is this documented in the W7000 thread some place?
I agree with most of what your saying though. I also believe from some testing the W7000 is brighter so will do larger screens then the H9500BD. But some conflicting reports on the 3D brightness. I know a few in here are doing 120" screens with the Acer and very happy, I run a 100" in eco mode and lessened brightness sorry no light meter on hand. Also not commonly known is the Acer has a hidden menu that you can play with lamp output norm/eco in 3D and iris settings to name a few. Pics of this menu is way back in this thread by pressing power/left/left/menu.
Looks like the street price difference from H9500BD and W7000 is now $425. I would still save the $425 and choose the Acer but that is my opinion only. To me the few things the W7000 does better isn't worth the extra cost. Colors are pretty accurate on the H9500BD, not perfect but good per some peoples testing. And the pixel mapping is there but over rated in my opinion. Not saying it isn't worth mentioning it is but it isn't wrecking what this was designed for and that is movies. And with desktop viewing which I do a good bit is just fine at 100" and 7feet back. Blow it up to 120" it most likely gets more notice, bothersome.

I am not sure how the two projectors compare in gaming lag at 720p/60hz FP, so I will concede that I probably shouldn't have included that point.

However, the main advantage to the w7000 is 4-fold though for the extra money.

1) 3D Brightness and 2D Brightness (but Acer needs a few more measurements in 3D because of what you said, extra options in menus some reviewers may not have calibrated for 3d brightness).

2) Center-Point Lens Shift whereas the Acer has "ceiling mounting" Lens Shift, this means the Benq w7000 lets us boost the gain with retro-reflective screens far higher than the Acer. The Benq also has more placement flexiblity overall.
---Hence, a person with a large retro-screen could easily achieve 50% or more brightness with the Benq than the Acer

3) The pixel mapping issue

4) The CMS

Although I'm sure the Acer's colors are pretty good, a CMS is still very nice to have. I think when you combine those 4 points, it makes sense to pay the extra $400 for the Benq. Now if you don't care about any of those, then it wouldn't make sense.

I think you were the person with the 147" screen? Of the 4 issues you mention, only the last is really something that I'd like to have (but again, don't know for sure how much actual difference it would make without having it) . I have a 120" screen and I don't see any obvious blurring using blu ray (course it might look better if it got fixed...which I'm pretty sure it will...get fixed that is). My PJ adjusts fine from where I have it, but in some cases better adjustment V and H would be helpful (My Sanyo had very robust shift adjustment and it came in handy when I mounted it in my son's room). The 3D looks fine to me (virtually total light control), but I could just be used to it. When I get my PJ back, we'll do some adjustments/measurements and see how things go.
Edited by InCali - 6/18/12 at 1:24pm

I got confirmation that they have contacted the person actually doing the repair on my PJ and the info should be updated in a day or two.

Specifically, I asked them:

What issues does the firmware update address?
Is it a firmware update only or is additional hardware necessary? If so, what additional is needed?
Latest estimate for completion of repair (figured I'd ask as long as I was on).
Which parts were/will be replaced?

We'll see if I get any news. I would have let the timeline stuff alone except some level 1 support person told me all parts were in (may or may not be true as level 2 didn't know).

I only have a 106" screen, I do have another larger screen I no longer use.
My screen is 2.4 gain (Hp Da-Lite). IMO, projectors are never bright enough when it comes to 3D as the lamp ages, you always almost need more.

3D is fine at first, it's when the lamp ages and then you realize wow 2D is great, but man 3D is dark (it happens).

Projectors give higher contrast the farther back you place them. So for instance, my JVC RS-45 I place it 17' back which is 3/4 to farthest throw.
Now the JVC's give off 15,000:1 Native on/off (6x the Acer) with the IRIS Open, but if I close that IRIS I can get 40,000:1+ on/off contrast (15x the Acer).

Moving the projector farther back and closing the IRIS that far reduces my brightness WAY WAY down, so I need that small super-gain screen to compensate. It works great, and I get maximum contrast.
Consider that many people buying RS-65's that spent $8,000+ cannot mount it at the back of the room and keep the aperture as closed as I can because of their screen choice, which means I get the same or better contrast than they do for 1/3rd the money.

Now don't get me wrong, that huge jump isn't nearly as much as it sounds over the Acer. Let's figure though, in the darkest of movies, it does make a difference to us OCD folks that crave the darkest blacks.
I do sit really close for that screen size, and it does suit me well. Also my speakers and a door are in the way for me to go much bigger (I can fit 110" for sure, maybe 120").

Maybe it was Zombie who had the 147" screen?? I remember someone on this thread who noticed the blurring difference in a big way because of the size of their screen. There is the law of diminishing returns (PJ price and performance) and I really like my Acer on a 120" screen (when it works).

Regarding OCD, my wife treats this sort of thing and someone on another thread (blu ray I believe) had something like the following signature;

"I have CDO. It’s exactly like OCD, except the letters are in alphabetical order, like they should be".....now that's some funny $#!t.....It's a T-Shirt too in case you're interested....
Edited by InCali - 6/18/12 at 9:50pm

Hello MississippiMan. Not sure why you are here in this forum except for the questions posted but I have read many of your posts on the Epson 8350 and I bought one of those. I liked it and felt comfortable with the purchase knowing Epson would send another if mine was substandard. I liked it and still have it for standby viewing. Shortly after that 3D projectors, affordable ones, came out, and I selected the Acer. I did that because I am a DLP fanboy and I hate convergence issues even though my Epson is very good in that regard. There is a lot I can compare for movie and TV watching, but I will just say that I had the luxury of being able to side by side the two. Everyone who saw that thought the 9500 was the one to watch. Sharper, more contrast, better blacks, but above all else it popped more. That DLP pop and sharpness is hard to beat lol. Anyways, to answer your questions:
1. As for returns or problems it is hard to tell. I believe sales were impeded by myself and a few other reviewers on sites that sell the unit. I hated to do that but there are a few things Acer needed to address and they blew me off. So those reviews stand until I feel differently and to be honest I hear there is a fix in the works, but my original complaint has resulted in no response from Ace to date. I did not start this crusade but I suppose I made it one. I may be lucky like with my 8350 but my unit is performing just fine for the reason I bought it, movie watching.
2. The 3D viewing is flawless. Zero ghosting. This is where the unit excels and I submit no other unit at any price does it better with the exception of a brighter PJ like perhaps the BenQ. I have not tested the BenQ so cannot comment. The glasses have been hard to come by in the past but I managed to get another pair from Tiger at a good price. I also have 4 pairs of Ultimate Heaven DLP glasses and they work very well with the unit. The Acer glasses are the best I have seen and they appear to be identical to the ZD201s. Even Zombie says the ZD201s are better than the BenQ glasses. I have not seen any brightness issues with the Acer but I have a light controlled room.

I hope I answered those questions but now that we are talking 3D viewing, I want to make my own personal observations. I feel that you need a good light controlled room for this. Yes Epson makes a few light cannons here but that is at the expense of contrast and of course the ghosting and convergence. There is none of that with the 9500. I know that there are adjustments now for convergence with 3LCD units but why bother if you do not have to? The W7000 appears to not have the blacks of the 9500. Whatever the case, the 9500 appears to have a better image for 2D viewing and I can only assume that this translates to 3D as well. That is my experience with the two units not having tested the 3LCD units in 3D.

Got off the phone (again) with level 2 support and I have an estimated repair date of 6/25 (next Monday), so I figure I'll have it by the end of next week.

No news from the repair tech, but I confirmed that the questions I asked were the ones submitted. They said they send a complete repair log with the PJ when it's returned.

No news of what the firmware addresses or whether it needs additional hardware. I won't speculate that they either have the necessary parts or know when they will get them....but don't see how they would add a estimated repair date if they didn't.......

Man, if they only could have done this about a month ago, I might have actually purchased this projector. I can't wait to see if the fix was worth the wait.

"You???" can't wait??? Dude, my PJ has been "gone" for a month. We'll see how things worked out pretty soon now.

Right now my money says that the next PJ released by Acer will be essentially the same as this one, but with CMS and maybe a faster CW speed. From what I've read, that would be easy, cheap to do, and encourage a lot of people to buy.

I'm hoping this firmware update makes a substantial difference on more than one front. We'll see.

Were you ever able to check the resolution of your Optoma? Also, I wouldn't listen to someone who says you can't tell whether or not your first unit was any better or worse without having looked at it themselves.

I considered the Benq 7000 but rejected it because it doesn't do 2D to 3D conversion. I think this is important. Am I wrong?

I watch Fox news every night starting with O'Reilly. I don't like him very much personally but his show is good. I assumed that I could with the Acer 9500 just hit the 3D conversion button and watch him in 3D. I realize that the 3D wouldn't be perfect but I assumed it would be good enough for "talking heads".

I also know that some Blu-ray players do 2D to 3D conversion but I just got a new Panasonic 220 and it is apparently not very good at that. I didn't care because I planned to get an Acer 9500 which is supposed to be very good. Now that the Benq has dropped in price it looks like another good choice but it has no 2D to 3D. I notice that no one ever posts about how they use 2D to 3D. Does that mean tht it is just a gimmick that soon loses it's appeal? If that's so maybe I should consider the Benq.

I've started to use the mailed disk service in Netflix again. My previous Blu-ray player a Panasonic 65 had failed to work with BDs. It still would play DVDs but I find I can't watch DVDs anymore if there is an alternative. I rented "The Last Valley" from Netflix but I couldn't bear to watch it. The picture was small and full of mosquito noise. My screen isn't that big (110") but that's too big to mask the bad pq of so many DVDs. So I figure I'm only going to watch Blu-rays from now on, but Netflix doesn't rent 3D Blue-rays. I watched "John Carter" in 2D on Amazon VOD. I'd like to see it again in 3D but not so much that I will actually buy it. for thirty dollars or so. I want to rent it. Has anyone had any experience with the various 3D rental companies?

I don't use the 2D to 3D conversion much and have no idea if it would enhance the Bill O'Reilly show (or whatever they call it). I wrote about this earlier, but 2D to 3D is, to me, kind of hit and miss. I liked the parts of Xmen FC that I saw, but Terminator Salvation (the parts I saw) kinda sucked (the fires around the police cars looked weird..like they were floating in the air). Bottom line (for me) is that if it's a 2D movie, I watch it in 2D. If it's 3D, ditto. I don't think you can expect a device to do as well in real time as studios do conversions (unless it happens to be "Clash of the Titans"...don't even bother with the 3D version).

I like the Acer and hope that the firmware update, which is apparently in the works, makes a really good PJ (from the perspective of picture quality) for the money even better. If you've looked over this thread, there may be some "out of the box" reliability issues, but I can't say if they're any worse than other make of PJ.

Acer announces H9600BD with 8X color wheel, razor sharp HDMI, CMS and world class customer service, they will only be making 2 of these!!! H9600BD Mike2Cents signature edition.

Also, Coderguy (you probably already read it) has written about some of what he thinks the advantages of the BenQ are. Depending on what Acer fixes in its firmware update, those advantages may dissipate somewhat.

Hey, I'll settle for razor sharp HDMI, but will accept any incremental improvements offered (esp CMS). That's funny...hope that announcement happens.

Thank goodness I will be getting 50% of the run of this unit. That leaves a lot of unhappy campers. LOL.

Watching O'Reilly in 3D, pretty funny.
I'd rather watch some of the female reporters in 3D, only problem is I always forget what they are saying...

Like I said, that's funny. I don't know about an 8X color wheel, but what you wrote doesn't seem like much of a stretch for the next model given that the projector's hardware (as reported about a week ago by Mike) does support CMS and faster color wheel speeds. It appears that Acer just chose to not utilize these capabilities. If you were a manager at Acer engineering, which would you do? Redesign the current projector and make sure you've got CMS and faster color wheel speeds or keep the existing design and enable features already supported by the current hardware? Get what I mean? Cheap, relatively easy (I think....), and you've got the next "generation" of Acer 3D projectors ready to sell......

2D goes in. 3D comes out. You can't explain that.

say what you want for the content, but the 3D was fair and balanced.

The appliance repair guy just left. It looks like I need a new refrigerator more than a new projector. Maybe next month. Perhaps the eprom issue will be resolved by then.

The reason I've been concerned about 2D to 3D is because I've experienced 3D going out of fashion at least twice before. I saw "Dial M for Murder" in 3D. I think that was just about the lst big studio movie in the first wave. I also saw "Jaws "3" which was the last of the second wave. If I buy the Acer I'll be ready for 3D movies for years but not if they stop making such movies (again).