or Connect
AVS › AVS Forum › Display Devices › Digital Projectors - Under $3,000 USD MSRP › The Official Acer H9500BD Thread
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

The Official Acer H9500BD Thread - Page 135

post #4021 of 4744
Thanks Jason. I am going to do this before the college football game I want to watch this afternoon so I can just leave the projector on. I suppose it would not hurt to measure all the preset modes either just for informational purposes.
post #4022 of 4744
Coderguy, I am not arguing or disagreeing with you. I did not say your post was directed at me and I thought I made it clear that my purpose was to point out that I discourage people from planning to use this unit at the extreme limits of shift because it may not work due to tolerances. Try to allow for an inch or two of leeway to be safe. That is my uhm...2cents and I cannot be more emphatic about it. People are always free to do and say what they please. I just did and I said it based on my hands on experience with the unit.

I don't think you would disagree with this line of thinking although we may disagree on what constitutes accurate measurement. I get it. I just think it matters when someone is going to install this unit at the shorter throw for the better lumens in 3D like I did and recommend. About this is good enough if one follows my advice and leaves themselves a few inches leeway for shift. BTW when I say about (my measurements) I mean within 1/8 inch which I do not consider precise but good enough to determine if a certain mounting option will work. Hmm, after previewing this post it appears I may disagree with you about measuring accuracy but only in so far as what purpose we are measuring for. We have different objectives and therefore the differing opinion. Neither of which is wrong IMO.

BTW great post about calibrating and the relationship of the colors and effects they have. Almost makes me want to get the kit and do it on my AVR and HTPC since I can save the settings there as opposed to the 9500. I could use some more frustration in my life.wink.gif Probably going to get some when I try these lumens measurements a bit later but it ought to be straight forward. We shall see.
post #4023 of 4744
I am just saying you cannot see by eye less than 1" of offset TILT on the mounting accuracy. The difference between how straight your wall is and your projector's "levelness" will make more difference than 1/4" or so. The tolerances of DLP offset is not really that much, the manuals will often say 3% to 8%, but they are talking about a percentage of the offset itself (let's say 10% of 15 inches is 1.5 inches, but the offset tolerance is rarely more than 0.5 inches). It is very unlikely anyone even has their PJ level enough to measure that amount of difference unless they use the notebook paper method. And I was just saying I know that 1/4" from the offset is the maximum amount of error I have had when I have measured the offset, I can measure it within 1/32" or less if I take more than 4 measurements and keep refining the error, but there is no reason to try to get it that accurate.

I will agree to be careful about MOUNTING throw distance, that is more important than offset. If the image projected is too small or too large on your screen, that is much more noticeable then being an inch or two from the correct offset (which is not generally visible on most screens if you mount it correctly). Having installed almost 10 DLP projectors, I say don't worry about the tiny tolerances on the max lens shift, unless you just way undershoot or overshoot it. So I cannot agree to sweat about the offset tolerance, and I also am not in full agreement that we should continue stating the manual is off and confusing people, not until we know for sure, again my measurements in the CALC agree with your offset and that came from the manual.

I don't want people to get scared about mounting based on some tolerance. It is always easier to be in the middle of the mounting by lens shift and throw if possible, but if not I don't want to scare people off anyhow.

A forum member owner PM'd me, and I will try to help him measure the projector.
Edited by coderguy - 9/16/12 at 6:52pm
post #4024 of 4744
No problem coderguy. Maybe this will help make my point about planning the install. See that column and that ceiling fan, and that drop ceiling? See that AV rack that needs line of site for remotes? I am sure I do not need to explain what is going on here to you but some may ask so here we go:

I have a drop ceiling and did not want the screen on the floor.

Wife said the ceiling fan could not be removed, well asked so I raised it as high as I could and removed light kit.

I knew I did not want the screen to the right off center and in front of my AV components. The screen was already mounted for my Epson which was run from where you see it in the one picture.

So I knew I wanted a DLP 3D projector that I could mount and go without much trial and tribulation. As you can see the 9500 just fit this criteria both in offset and shift. I am literally pushing the envelope in offset or the bottom of my screen would be below the top of my subs. I have a few inches to spare on the horizontal shift and I made sure I had that slush factor based on calculators I looked at and I had a good idea what throw distance I was looking at. All of this was "about" that much for me and I made sure I had a few inches to spare.

My point all along was not to argue with you, rather to help people considering the unit who may have a challenging installation situations like I did. Sometimes pictures tell a thousand words. In my case it was the BenQ or the Acer or not going to happen. Of course the 8350 seems like it could throw that picture from just about anywhere behind me without fooling with the ceiling fan. Now nobody has to duck below the 8350 light path when walking behind the recliner sofa. Nice.

This is my final post on this topic (if I can help myself) because I think it is quite clear what I am talking about now. Good luck with your other owner measurements, especially the max throw 300" screen one but seriously none of that will change the horizontal shift I measured or my recommendation about allowing a slush factor when your particular installation plan calls for maximum shift.



Edited by Mikes2cents - 9/15/12 at 4:33pm
post #4025 of 4744
BTW I am having technical difficulties with the ISO file displaying properly to my projector and ran out of time. The game is on now. I will have to get back to that later.
post #4026 of 4744
The measurements he took for throw matched the calculator (and the Acer manual, as well as the lens shift). His NO ZOOM measurement was an 80" screen can be done from as far back as 13.4 feet, which is exactly what the calculator shows. Otherwise, the other measurement (Max Zoom) produced a slightly larger screen size than my calc shows (or the manual), but only by a few inches, and I've now split the difference with him in that last calc. Generally the calculator likes to remain on the safer side of the margin, so I don't see the tiny difference in his measurements to be concerning as far as the throw goes.

It is all within the expected ballpark, no homeruns here and expect it to be accurate within 1-3 inches on both sides. Of course anyone trying to mount the PJ exactly at closest or farthest throw needs to be careful and be aware it might not fit. The offsets he measured were also within about 1" or so (close enough, and the offset matched exactly what someone else reported).

So the calculator has been accurate the entire time (accurate enough), so all this for nothing, well not nothing, we did verify the accuracy now...
I can finally retire from this debate (I hope)...
Edited by coderguy - 9/15/12 at 5:37pm
post #4027 of 4744
Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

which is exactly what the calculator shows within 1 inch.
but only by a few inches, and I've now split the difference with him in that last calc.
So now it should be within a couple inches of his measurement on both sides.
The image produced by the Acer may go a little larger on the Zoom
but it is all within the ballpark,
expect it to be accurate within 1-3 inches on both sides.
The offsets he measured were also within about 1" to 1.5" or so (close enough).
So the calculator has been accurate the entire time (accurate enough), so all this for nothing, well not nothing, we did verify the accuracy now...
I can finally retire from this debate (I hope)...
LO effing L. Yep, so can I. Seems "about" is good enough after all as long as you allow some leeway at the limits due to variations in a tight installation situation which is all I have been saying all along. And I have measured the horizontal lens shift and found it to be less than advertised by "about" an inch based on my calculations at my throw and screen size.

We never started out arguing the same point but.....never mind because nobody cares. Folks may care about my lumens measurements if I can ever get the file to display properly but that will have to wait until after the game.
post #4028 of 4744
Wow, Stanford poops on USC again. I love it. Despite my problems with the 3D ISO file displaying properly, I measured it anyways because I was sure it was in a 3D mode. I saw 120 lux vs the AVSHD 2D brightest white I could find and measured 122 lux. Folks, that is not a lot of difference but none of that is through the glasses. I have a lot of work to do here because I would prefer the 3D image to be right for selfish personal reasons. At any rate, I was surprised how much light was getting there in 3D because it did not look that way by eyeball but the meter said what it said. I will not do any math right now because my first measurements returned a difference of less than 2%. I am not sure that is right so I have work to do. Of course I did not feel the 3D picture was that much dimmer than 2D but I did not suspect or even feel it would be this close. So I need to get this all sorted out and working properly on my HTPC just to get the proper image in 3D, not that the 3D was not being displayed as I saw with my glasses. It just was not displaying the proper picture. That sounds stupid but people who know what I am talking about know that this will not affect lux measurements. Just make me happy. Right now I am not happy because I cannot view proper 3D on my HTPC though 3D BDs work just fine. I need to get smart with this 3D ISO thing.
post #4029 of 4744
Quote:
Originally Posted by aaranddeeman View Post

I am receiving mine tomorrow after the update...
Fingers crossed on that strange resolution issue you mention...

I have to confirm that after the firmware update I do see the weird resolution of 1920X2250 (or something similar that is not 1080) is displayed in the box on right top corner for that flip sec. in 3D mode.
I did not see/feel/notice any issues with the picture.
Next time around I will carefully write down the number it displays. May be we can pose that question to Acer.
While we are it, does anyone know how to get the info display on demand?
post #4030 of 4744
I thought 1980x2250 was the resolution of frame packed 3d, because of the extra info sent to create the two frames for each eye.
post #4031 of 4744
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdejose View Post

I thought 1980x2250 was the resolution of frame packed 3d, because of the extra info sent to create the two frames for each eye.

yes, it's absolutely right, nothing to worry about, my problem with a blank screen with that resolution was resolved after I reloaded drivers for my HTPC,
I am so happy with a new update, it's totally different projector now, I was good but now it's even better,
With those new "COLOR MAGNAGEMENT"( what says exactly on the picture),OK, "Color Management " settings, you really have a chance calibrate your colors as you want,
As an example I took YouTube HD video on my iPad 2 (I think IPod has very good colors),
After I've done it, it took my about 2 hours. The video from the projector was matched with the video on my iPad 2 for about 95%
Here is my settings in case you want to try it.
Main settings:
Color Tone-T2
Color HDMI Range-limited
Brilliant colors-ON
Saturation-55




Edited by sars - 9/16/12 at 10:03am
post #4032 of 4744
Quote:
Originally Posted by sars View Post

yes, it's absolutely right, nothing to worry about, my problem with a blank screen with that resolution was resolved after I reloaded drivers for my HTPC,
I am so happy with a new update, it's totally different projector now, I was good but now it's even better,
With those new "COLOR MAGNAGEMENT"( what says exactly on the picture),OK, "Color Management " settings, you really have a chance calibrate your colors as you want,
As an example I took YouTube HD video on my iPad 2 (I think IPod has very good colors),
After I've done it, it took my about 2 hours. The video from the projector was matched with the video on my iPad 2 for about 95%
Here is my settings in case you want to try it.
Main settings:
Color Tone-T2
Color HDMI Range-limited
Brilliant colors-ON
Saturation-55


Making BC on brings some color cast in the white (contrast) calibration ramp (in DVE). I have put it off for that reason.
For adjusting the colors (and for that matter everything basic), AVS-HD is very good and it is free. It will take just 10 minutes and not 2 hours to adjust..
post #4033 of 4744
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdejose View Post

I thought 1980x2250 was the resolution of frame packed 3d, because of the extra info sent to create the two frames for each eye.

I looked again and it is actually 1920x2205 and it makes sense..

1080x2 + 45 = 2205 (45 pixels are used for spacing between two frames)
post #4034 of 4744
I am going to have another go with the lumens measurement here in a bit. Obviously 475 lumens is not correct for the unit in 2D Presentation eco mode (or maybe it is) so I am going to try to get the meter to give me a more proper reading in 2D using my BD player and the AVS disk before I proceed any further with the PC. If I get where I need to I will try the 3D ISO file again. As it stands my current 3D lumens reading at 100% IRE is about 475 lumens.

On that note, Jason can you confirm that the format is supposed to be frame packing? When I select that mode on the 9500 it kicks out of 3D. When I select SBS or TnB it does go into 3D mode but obviously the picture is not correct. The auto setting does not detect the picture properly. Is there something I need to do in PowerDVD? Perhaps my meter is defective. Any help appreciated.
post #4035 of 4744
Anyone have fios and epix? EPIX just added a 3d on demand movie and I can't get my Acer to work with it. I don't have any issues with hbo or stars 3d on demand or blurays. I tried setting from auto to frame packing and side by side. The video comes up one Frame on top one on the bottom where as the other on demand is side by side.

Anyone else seeing any issues?
post #4036 of 4744
Quote:
Originally Posted by joepaiii View Post

Anyone have fios and epix? EPIX just added a 3d on demand movie and I can't get my Acer to work with it. I don't have any issues with hbo or stars 3d on demand or blurays. I tried setting from auto to frame packing and side by side. The video comes up one Frame on top one on the bottom where as the other on demand is side by side.
Anyone else seeing any issues?

I am not sure what your issue is. But if your 3D mode is off and you send a frame packed signal, it will display both frames one on top of the other.
May be just check that in the processing of fiddling you have not put the 3d mode off on Acer.
post #4037 of 4744
Quote:
Originally Posted by aaranddeeman View Post

Making BC on brings some color cast in the white (contrast) calibration ramp (in DVE). I have put it off for that reason.
For adjusting the colors (and for that matter everything basic), AVS-HD is very good and it is free. It will take just 10 minutes and not 2 hours to adjust..

Yeah I know AVH-HD is good or Walt Disney calibration disc but I wanted about the same quality as IPod does
post #4038 of 4744
Quote:
Originally Posted by aaranddeeman View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by joepaiii View Post

Anyone have fios and epix? EPIX just added a 3d on demand movie and I can't get my Acer to work with it. I don't have any issues with hbo or stars 3d on demand or blurays. I tried setting from auto to frame packing and side by side. The video comes up one Frame on top one on the bottom where as the other on demand is side by side.
Anyone else seeing any issues?

I am not sure what your issue is. But if your 3D mode is off and you send a frame packed signal, it will display both frames one on top of the other.
May be just check that in the processing of fiddling you have not put the 3d mode off on Acer.

3D was on, that's how the other channels and blurays work.
post #4039 of 4744
Well the numbers are in and somewhat surprising. Seems the brightest I can do right now is 1203 lumens in bright mode. I pretty much never use that except daytime lights on football watching which is stupid so I usually use my DLP TV for that. Back to the results, my unit showed 92 hours on the bulb when I tested this but I am pretty sure with the lumens drop that Acer simply reset the bulb hours on my unit which I do not recall exactly what it was the last time I sent it in, maybe 20 something and then before the firmware update well over 400.

So at something over about 500 hours on the bulb I am surprised with my readings. I need to test the meter with my 8350 as well. I wish I had the meter when the unit was new and will be keeping it to monitor the bulb.

I will not elaborate on the readings except to say that I usually watch in the presentation mode on eco mode or user eco mode. I have very good light control so no problems. A lot of times I turn Brilliant Color off because I do not like what it does to skin tones which can go right into the toilet depending on the signal.

Anyway, here are the numbers and they are all with Brilliant Color on(except user). Since I usually use presentation with Brilliant Color off, (drops a lot of lumens) no wonder I did not feel the 3D was too dark or dropped off a lot. So I don't know if these lower lumens are a result of my bulb life or my meter at this point, but what you can take away from this is the relationship of 2D and 3D lumens. What I did to measure 3D was activate the 2D to 3D conversion feature using the same AVS white pattern and confirmed that I had a proper 3D picture so that ought to suffice.
All comments welcome except coderguy, JK. smile.gif

Mode - Lux Eco/High - Lumens Eco/High

Bright - 250/303 - 992/1203

Presentation - 198/240 - 786/952

Standard - 191/228 - 756/905

Movie - 162/196 - 643/778

Dark Cinema - 163/197 - 647/782

Sports - 171/206 - 679/818

User - 117/142 - 464/564

2D to 3D Convert - 155 - 615
Edited by Mikes2cents - 9/17/12 at 10:32am
post #4040 of 4744
I just wanted to follow up in another post. I have no idea how Projectorreviews measured what they did on this unit except maybe they had a fresh bulb and different equipment. Of course they measured below advertised as well so hey. At any rate, the observations there match mine for the drop from Brilliant Color on and off as well as the drop in 3D though my numbers are not as drastic. I believe Art would prefer to watch 3D on a projector without any glasses without any lumens drop but that is not going to happen.

What I really want to say here is to make sure that you mount the 9500 as close as you can for your screen size which I have said before. This is especially important for 3D. I did some playing around with the meter and can say the closer the better. While my 9500 is about 13'6" (yes about lol) from the screen, just moving that meter 6" from the screen towards the projector yields surpising results. Just saying. YMMV but the farther away the worse off you are. We all know this but watching a meter is an eye opener.
Edited by Mikes2cents - 9/16/12 at 7:15pm
post #4041 of 4744
Mike, that's odd with PowerDVD 10, it should be putting that ISO in 1080 / 24FP mode which is full 3D BD mode. What graphics card / driver version are you running? I use the Nvidia GT430 and a driver set from nearly a year ago that worked well in 3D mode, so I leave it alone.

The 2D to 3D conversion should produce the same lumens.. at least it has on other projectors i've tested.

The #'s seem to match up with PC's review last year. I think they were ~900 @ a mode closest to D65 in 2D and around 700 in 3D mode. Movie mode should be closest, but you'd need a calibrated color meter to verify.

The last time I checked the W7000 @ 250 hours, 2D D65 calibrated mode was ~1500 lumens and 3D mode was ~1100 lumens. The 1100 lumens on the nearly 3.x gain HP = relatively bright 3D through the glasses. I'm an admitted 3D brightness fanatic.

thanks for running the test. Hopefully you can see that demo in full 3D mode, The L/R patterns show how perfect the 3D DLP's can render the tough scenes. The other techs are catching up, it will be curious to see the Panasonic 8000 and Epson 5020 this year.
post #4042 of 4744
NVIDIA GTX 460. Since you asked I looked and have a Microsoft driver that no doubt was loaded during an update. Stupid MS. Last I saw it was from NVIDIA. Might be something to look in to.
post #4043 of 4744
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

thanks for running the test. Hopefully you can see that demo in full 3D mode, The L/R patterns show how perfect the 3D DLP's can render the tough scenes. The other techs are catching up, it will be curious to see the Panasonic 8000 and Epson 5020 this year.
No problem. I like bright until it sucks and it does a lot with some projectors. IMO projectors are not made to be like TVs so there you go. I would love to check out the W7K but I am more than happy with the 9500. I do not miss the lumens because I have a proper room but am curious about how those extra lumens look since every time I push lumens the image goes in the crapper. For now, the 9500 is just fine for me in my environment.
post #4044 of 4744
Quote:
Originally Posted by aaranddeeman View Post

I am not sure what your issue is. But if your 3D mode is off and you send a frame packed signal, it will display both frames one on top of the other.
May be just check that in the processing of fiddling you have not put the 3d mode off on Acer.
Quote:
Originally Posted by joepaiii View Post

3D was on, that's how the other channels and blurays work.

I doubt Epix is sending a frame packed signal. I have FIOS and it's a 1080i feed (or maybe 720P in 3D??? Not home so don't know for sure. I'm going to be back next Tuesday as I need to take care of a few things around the house and will check out the new Epix 3D. Before now, I just got HBO and Starz in 3D. It sure doesn't look the same as 3D blu ray. Motion tends to blur from where I sit. Nice touch by Epix though.....if it works.....

Can you get 3D on HBO or Starz??? Is the resolution the same in the little box that shows up for a few seconds? If you can get others and not Epix, it's probably Epix??
post #4045 of 4744
Quote:
Originally Posted by InCali View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by aaranddeeman View Post

I am not sure what your issue is. But if your 3D mode is off and you send a frame packed signal, it will display both frames one on top of the other.
May be just check that in the processing of fiddling you have not put the 3d mode off on Acer.
Quote:
Originally Posted by joepaiii View Post

3D was on, that's how the other channels and blurays work.

I doubt Epix is sending a frame packed signal. I have FIOS and it's a 1080i feed (or maybe 720P in 3D??? Not home so don't know for sure. I'm going to be back next Tuesday as I need to take care of a few things around the house and will check out the new Epix 3D. Before now, I just got HBO and Starz in 3D. It sure doesn't look the same as 3D blu ray. Motion tends to blur from where I sit. Nice touch by Epix though.....if it works.....

Can you get 3D on HBO or Starz??? Is the resolution the same in the little box that shows up for a few seconds? If you can get others and not Epix, it's probably Epix??

Yes the Acer works fine with hbo and stars 3d on demand. Only problem I have is with epix. I am seeing different (I think) behavior when I enable 3d. It seems like even 2d is getting washed out like it is sending the white sync frame. I never saw that before when leaving 3d on in the menu.
post #4046 of 4744
Quote:
Originally Posted by joepaiii View Post

Yes the Acer works fine with hbo and stars 3d on demand. Only problem I have is with epix. I am seeing different (I think) behavior when I enable 3d. It seems like even 2d is getting washed out like it is sending the white sync frame. I never saw that before when leaving 3d on in the menu.

I'll bet it's some sort of Epix 3D roll out problem....esp if the resolution is the same on all channels. Wish I was home (sort of) to check it out. If anyone else out there has fios with the premium stations, I'm sure they'll check it out.
post #4047 of 4744
I have been following the H9500 almost since it first came out – at least since Art’s review. But I haven’t pulled the trigger because I have been waiting (like many I suppose) for the HDMI 1:1 pixel mapping to get sorted out.

But now that the new firmware is out, tested, and shipping with new units…I am still hesitant. I am hesitant because now only NewEgg is selling them and I am not sure what that means.

I had assumed that once the new firmware was out and updated units were ready that we would see the H9500 pop back up at Amazon and Tiger and that the completion between the three retailers would drive the price back down like it was for a while. And so I had planned to wait until that price drop to buy.

But what do you guys think? Should I keep waiting? Or is it possible that is Acer abandoning this unit? Is this why only Egg has it? Do they plan to just sell off existing inventory and not make any more? Or does that even really matter to those of us who may buy one now?

Art said he didn’t see anything from Acer at CEDIA. And he also said that other than the Epson 3020, he didn’t anything new from any other PJ manufacturers that would complete in the under $2000 bracket. So it seems like the Acer is still my best choice given my budget, desires, and placement requirements and that it likely will be for another year.

Thoughts??
post #4048 of 4744
have you looked at the mitsubishi HC7800D, it can be had for the same price as the acer around 1600 bucks from nerds website. use code BACK2SCHOOL
post #4049 of 4744
Quote:
Originally Posted by KillRob View Post

I have been following the H9500 almost since it first came out – at least since Art’s review. But I haven’t pulled the trigger because I have been waiting (like many I suppose) for the HDMI 1:1 pixel mapping to get sorted out.
But now that the new firmware is out, tested, and shipping with new units…I am still hesitant. I am hesitant because now only NewEgg is selling them and I am not sure what that means.
I had assumed that once the new firmware was out and updated units were ready that we would see the H9500 pop back up at Amazon and Tiger and that the completion between the three retailers would drive the price back down like it was for a while. And so I had planned to wait until that price drop to buy.
But what do you guys think? Should I keep waiting? Or is it possible that is Acer abandoning this unit? Is this why only Egg has it? Do they plan to just sell off existing inventory and not make any more? Or does that even really matter to those of us who may buy one now?
Art said he didn’t see anything from Acer at CEDIA. And he also said that other than the Epson 3020, he didn’t anything new from any other PJ manufacturers that would complete in the under $2000 bracket. So it seems like the Acer is still my best choice given my budget, desires, and placement requirements and that it likely will be for another year.
Thoughts??

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=2023403 Tiger has them, are refurbished and thinking they are actually new but sent back for the firmware update. Really good price too.
post #4050 of 4744
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vasim Pathan View Post

have you looked at the mitsubishi HC7800D, it can be had for the same price as the acer around 1600 bucks from nerds website. use code BACK2SCHOOL

The HC7800 most definitely looks like a nice PJ but it doesn’t appear to have the lumens I am looking for. My family room is nowhere near light-controlled. I have white walls, three 4’x4’ windows, two 4’x2’ skylights, and a 6’ slider.

My HD1000u is rated at more lumens than the HC7800 and yet is not bright enough and I have to run it in high-lamp mode.

One of the bug pluses of the Acer is the much higher lumens. If the reviews are correct, I can run the lamp in economy mode and still have more lumens than my Mits.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
AVS › AVS Forum › Display Devices › Digital Projectors - Under $3,000 USD MSRP › The Official Acer H9500BD Thread