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The Official Acer H9500BD Thread - Page 138

post #4111 of 4744
Quote:
Originally Posted by bosko12 View Post

Hello guys. I'm a french user.
I received the Acer H9500BD last week with the door broken. I asked for a remplacement so the projector is gone in Germany. I also asked for the new update ... I hope it will be installed.
was it damage due to transportation/shipping?
post #4112 of 4744
PLB, I see you already ordered, but I did get the unit yesterday, and it did indeed have the May 2012 firmware.


Didn't work with it too long (30 mins or so), as I don't have proper length cables to connect my normal equipment. Though, I did hook up my PC and tested the 2d->3d and was VERY disappointed. Not sure if I just don't have it set up correctly, or there are other issues, but the picture was so "jumpy" I could hardly watch. I played DVD's via PC HDMI @1080p (media player). LOTR and Gladiator were both terrible, especially between drastic scene changes. Incredibles was a bit better, but not really watchable.

I hope when the weekend gets here and I have some dedicated time I can figure out what's going on.

Another disconcerting thing is the box came with the ACER tape seals broken. I pointed it out to UPS, but everything inside looked normal with mostly sealed packaging and plastic protection on the unit. However, I noticed in the service menu, that although the lamp is at zero hours, the unit hours (something like that) was in the "9" range. Did I get a return/refurb/open box, or does the factory do some "burn in" that would show up like this?


I also had a black box show up in the right upper screen after about 10 minutes of fiddling. Couldn't get it to go away from the PC side, (assumed it was a stuck window or something). Eventually restarted the projector and it went away. Restarting the projector was interesting, as I got a series of blue lights (both solid and blinking), and it seemed really slow to restart. Looked in the manual this morning and discovered that blue anything is an error condition of various types. Not sure what to think about that yet either.

So, overall I'm a little on edge about what I've ended up with. That being said, the 2D picture looked excellent, even it with the temporary setup and out of the box settings.
post #4113 of 4744
FrontalLobotomy, (as in "I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy"). Thanks for the update. Mine should be here tommorow. I was planning on using the 2D to 3D feature. That was one of the decision points for me putting the Acer above the Benq 7000. The price was another.

I expect that 2D to 3D is now in its infancy. There is a separate box that is supposed to do a better job. I wouldn't be surprised if next year this technology (myterious though it may be) is perfected and commonplace. In the meantime there's this DebDooDad (sic) add on box that somehow improves image clarity. It looks like I'll still have electronic gizmos on which to squander my money. These developments seem saner than buying a whole new projector for 4K or 8K. When Netflix only outputs 720p at best, these super resolution formats seem silly. I would prefer that older movies only available in 2D and DVD resolutions be upgraded. There are hundreds of films from the sixties forward that would benefit from post processing. A few fifties films like "Singing in the Rain" would also benefit from a 3D HD re-release. The big biblical warhorses like "The Robe" and "Quo Vadis" too. The point of most of these films was to stun the audience with the highest quality image possible in an effort to fight off TV.


BTW my uncle Felix acually did have a frontal lobotomy. I don't know to much about it except that he was, by family legend, a drug fiend. Of course it was only marijauna. It could be that they cut into his brain for smoking grass.
post #4114 of 4744
Quote:
Originally Posted by FrontalLobotomy View Post

PLB, I see you already ordered, but I did get the unit yesterday, and it did indeed have the May 2012 firmware.
Didn't work with it too long (30 mins or so), as I don't have proper length cables to connect my normal equipment. Though, I did hook up my PC and tested the 2d->3d and was VERY disappointed. Not sure if I just don't have it set up correctly, or there are other issues, but the picture was so "jumpy" I could hardly watch. I played DVD's via PC HDMI @1080p (media player). LOTR and Gladiator were both terrible, especially between drastic scene changes. Incredibles was a bit better, but not really watchable.
I hope when the weekend gets here and I have some dedicated time I can figure out what's going on.
Another disconcerting thing is the box came with the ACER tape seals broken. I pointed it out to UPS, but everything inside looked normal with mostly sealed packaging and plastic protection on the unit. However, I noticed in the service menu, that although the lamp is at zero hours, the unit hours (something like that) was in the "9" range. Did I get a return/refurb/open box, or does the factory do some "burn in" that would show up like this?
I also had a black box show up in the right upper screen after about 10 minutes of fiddling. Couldn't get it to go away from the PC side, (assumed it was a stuck window or something). Eventually restarted the projector and it went away. Restarting the projector was interesting, as I got a series of blue lights (both solid and blinking), and it seemed really slow to restart. Looked in the manual this morning and discovered that blue anything is an error condition of various types. Not sure what to think about that yet either.
So, overall I'm a little on edge about what I've ended up with. That being said, the 2D picture looked excellent, even it with the temporary setup and out of the box settings.

The 2D-3D conversion from my Sony Blu Ray was fine, but I did have some problems with my first PJ. I never experienced the jumpy picture. It could be the source player or it could be a hardware issue. I suggest trying another source player if possible. This real time conversion stuff (at least at this point in time) is nothing to write home about. They spend millions doing conversions and if it could be done with a PJ or Blu Ray player, they wouldn't be spending that kind of dough. Some movies are okay and some aren't. There are certain types of scenes that just don't work.
post #4115 of 4744
Maybe I'm wrong but it seems to me that it should be relatively cheap and easy for all new feature films to be encoded in 3D. Notice I didn't say photographed. 3D photography will always be more expensive for the simple reason that everything is doubled. But for 3D you should only need a single camera and some system to add "3D cues".

People of course don't directly see 3D except at very close ranges. If that weren't true one eyed people wouldn't be allowed a driver's license. Almost all of the sense of depth we see is inferred from cues like motion parallax, or image superposition. Most of these cues are already available in a standard 2D image. For example, closer things are bigger and cover up other things further away. So called 3D adds some more binocular parallax. It's not real natural but I for one like it.

When colorization came out they had some hand encoding (her dress is blue) and some automatic edge recognition. For good 3D from one camera all we would need is some way of coding the image in layers, again by edge recognition. Then we set standards for all TVs and projectors to read these cues and we would have a film of TV show in which we could turn the 3D on or off. We could also adjust it to taste.

Already feature films undergo "color correction" in post production. Adding layer cues could be a routine processing step, simpler than color correction. Adobe Premiere and Cyberlink PowerDirector could add such facilities without too much trouble. They already support some 3D now.

It seems pretty easy to do. In the first pass I would do "horizon recognition". The software looks for a blue sky and a brown ground divided by an edge. Then the software recognizes trapezoids. A rectangular building has trapazoidal edges that converge at some vanishing point. Those should be easy to spot automatically. The next pass might pick up motion parallax by tracking objects that move across the screen. If it could recognize objects it could notice if those objects grew and shrank indicating motion to and from the camera. In a couple automatic passes you should get a quick film marked up for human fine editing.

If I hadn't thrown out all my programming books last week (I'm retired) I would be tempted to try to code this up. It doesn't appear to be very hard to do. Getting everyone to agree on a system for embedding the depth codes in the image stream would be harder politically but not technically. Every frame would have a corresponding invisable depth map with a vanising point, a horizon and some other cues. Your imaging device (TV or projector) would simply uncode this information as it reads the frame and adjust the picture accordingly.

The point of all this is that 3D ahould become much cheaper and more universal. I'm not much worried about the availability of 3D content in the long run.
post #4116 of 4744
Quote:
Originally Posted by InCali View Post

The 2D-3D conversion from my Sony Blu Ray was fine, but I did have some problems with my first PJ. I never experienced the jumpy picture. It could be the source player or it could be a hardware issue. I suggest trying another source player if possible. This real time conversion stuff (at least at this point in time) is nothing to write home about. They spend millions doing conversions and if it could be done with a PJ or Blu Ray player, they wouldn't be spending that kind of dough. Some movies are okay and some aren't. There are certain types of scenes that just don't work.

I have a passive 3D LG LED, and it doesn't suffer from this issue whatsoever with the 2D->3D conversion when fed a 2D signal from my blu-ray player. The point of me saying is that I'm familiar with the limitations of the 2D->3D conversion as compared to true 3D source material. That being said, I'm still hoping that it was just some sort of mismatch between my PC and PJ configuration or what have you. Perhaps the glasses are out of sync or something. It was just bizarre and very hard to describe. Maybe a "brain sync" would happen after more view time, but as it was I couldn't imagine watching it without getting a migraine in 20 minutes.
post #4117 of 4744
I have watched Hugo in 3D with my 9500 and agree the effects are very good; enough so to over come the plot, which does lean toward sentimentality (that may be OK for some).
post #4118 of 4744
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skylinestar View Post

was it damage due to transportation/shipping?

Yes
post #4119 of 4744
Quote:
Originally Posted by FrontalLobotomy View Post

I have a passive 3D LG LED, and it doesn't suffer from this issue whatsoever with the 2D->3D conversion when fed a 2D signal from my blu-ray player. The point of me saying is that I'm familiar with the limitations of the 2D->3D conversion as compared to true 3D source material. That being said, I'm still hoping that it was just some sort of mismatch between my PC and PJ configuration or what have you. Perhaps the glasses are out of sync or something. It was just bizarre and very hard to describe. Maybe a "brain sync" would happen after more view time, but as it was I couldn't imagine watching it without getting a migraine in 20 minutes.

I'd still try another source player if possible. The fact that one display works better than the other doesn't mean that the Acer doesn't work. If it doesn't, however, you should find out asap. Hopefully, it can be returned or (at least) fixed if you confirm the issue with another player. I never saw the issue you saw on my Acer and that makes me suspicious.
post #4120 of 4744
The 9500 arrived today. I am at work so I can’t fire it up.

I did inspect the packaging though. It shipped in the Acer box and not inside a larger New Egg branded box like I usually see when ordering from them. The box was in good shape but it had obviously been opened since the security tape was cut.

Interestingly there was another piece of the same security tape stuck to the bottom the box and hanging off the side a bit. It didn’t appear to have come from my box but looked more like it came off another box – perhaps when the two boxes were stacked up on each other. Or maybe they had a number of these units in the same area and they were opening them all up at the same time. ????

Inside the box I couldn’t tell for sure if anything had been touched but it didn’t look like anything was amiss. The 3D glasses were there and were sealed in their own box and clearly hadn’t been opened. The PJ was in its carry case and was inside a plastic bag that was taped closed and also didn’t appear to have been opened. Of course if the PJ had been taken out (for a firmware update perhaps) and put back in by Acer then they could have used a fresh bag and new tape.

I likely won’t have time to fire it up until Thursday night but will report back when I get a chance.
post #4121 of 4744
My 9500 arrived with one broken tab on the lamp door as well. That design is surely suspect but Acer fixed it during my firmware update. It would appear that some of you may be getting units that have had the firmware updated. Too bad Acer did not take my advice and use factory tape and a sticker to indicate the unit is NIB but opened for FW update. How hard is that, really? Looks like they may be trying to pass off returned units under that guise and that is just wrong if that is the case. I hope they are not doing that. I asked them not to do that and recommended how to go about this. Oh well.
post #4122 of 4744
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikes2cents View Post

My 9500 arrived with one broken tab on the lamp door as well. That design is surely suspect but Acer fixed it during my firmware update. It would appear that some of you may be getting units that have had the firmware updated. Too bad Acer did not take my advice and use factory tape and a sticker to indicate the unit is NIB but opened for FW update. How hard is that, really? Looks like they may be trying to pass off returned units under that guise and that is just wrong if that is the case. I hope they are not doing that. I asked them not to do that and recommended how to go about this. Oh well.

I will carefully inspect this one (when I get a chance) to see if I can tell whether or not it was a returned unit. Although I suppose that only really matters if I have some sort of problem with it. If it works like it's supposed to then I guess I should be happy. smile.gif
post #4123 of 4744
I am sure you will be happy if it has the new firmware. If not, You will be able to fix it with the seller or Acer.
post #4124 of 4744
Quote:
Originally Posted by KillRob View Post

The 9500 arrived today. I am at work so I can’t fire it up.
I did inspect the packaging though. It shipped in the Acer box and not inside a larger New Egg branded box like I usually see when ordering from them. The box was in good shape but it had obviously been opened since the security tape was cut.
Interestingly there was another piece of the same security tape stuck to the bottom the box and hanging off the side a bit. It didn’t appear to have come from my box but looked more like it came off another box – perhaps when the two boxes were stacked up on each other. Or maybe they had a number of these units in the same area and they were opening them all up at the same time. ????
Inside the box I couldn’t tell for sure if anything had been touched but it didn’t look like anything was amiss. The 3D glasses were there and were sealed in their own box and clearly hadn’t been opened. The PJ was in its carry case and was inside a plastic bag that was taped closed and also didn’t appear to have been opened. Of course if the PJ had been taken out (for a firmware update perhaps) and put back in by Acer then they could have used a fresh bag and new tape.
I likely won’t have time to fire it up until Thursday night but will report back when I get a chance.

My package experience exactly.
post #4125 of 4744
Quote:
Originally Posted by InCali View Post

I'd still try another source player if possible. The fact that one display works better than the other doesn't mean that the Acer doesn't work. If it doesn't, however, you should find out asap. Hopefully, it can be returned or (at least) fixed if you confirm the issue with another player. I never saw the issue you saw on my Acer and that makes me suspicious.

Agreed. I was assuming (and crossing my fingers) it was source related as well.

And, since I just could not wait for my monoprice cables to get here, I found 4 shorter cables and cobbled together a daisy chain fiasco, that amazingly enough worked beautifully. Looking good.
post #4126 of 4744
Quote:
Originally Posted by KillRob View Post

I will carefully inspect this one (when I get a chance) to see if I can tell whether or not it was a returned unit. Although I suppose that only really matters if I have some sort of problem with it. If it works like it's supposed to then I guess I should be happy. smile.gif

Any updated PJ will be opened and then (should be) resealed. When I got my PJ, the seals had been broken or come "unstuck". It might be a good idea to lo see whether or not there is a new SNID sticker on the PJ. As I recall, the SNID changed for some (but maybe Europe???) of the returns.
post #4127 of 4744
mine arrived on last Friday with the exact same tape conditiond. It was broken but everything looked in order.
Have watched a couple of 3d movies and it is very impressive. My door latch seems ok.
post #4128 of 4744
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobwaldo View Post

mine arrived on last Friday with the exact same tape conditiond. It was broken but everything looked in order.
Have watched a couple of 3d movies and it is very impressive. My door latch seems ok.

It has the new firmware??
post #4129 of 4744
How many people use the dynamic iris on their 9500? How many like it? It is really starting to bug me, I like the better blacks but hate the pumping or yoyoing it causes in the light levels. I was watching the avengers in 3d and some of the early scenes in the lab were driving me crazy.
post #4130 of 4744
Quote:
Originally Posted by joepaiii View Post

How many people use the dynamic iris on their 9500? How many like it? It is really starting to bug me, I like the better blacks but hate the pumping or yoyoing it causes in the light levels. I was watching the avengers in 3d and some of the early scenes in the lab were driving me crazy.

Don't use it.....I should say "I don't use it".
Edited by InCali - 9/27/12 at 9:42am
post #4131 of 4744
Quote:
Originally Posted by InCali View Post

Any updated PJ will be opened and then (should be) resealed. When I got my PJ, the seals had been broken or come "unstuck". It might be a good idea to lo see whether or not there is a new SNID sticker on the PJ. As I recall, the SNID changed for some (but maybe Europe???) of the returns.

I took a quick look this morning before going to work to see if the serial number sticker looked altered. It didn’t appear to have been altered in any way. Hopefully I will have time to check the firmware tonight.

One thing that I noticed is that the PJ is substantially larger than my HD1000u…might not sit too well with my wife. Although the white color will at least blend in a bit better with the white ceiling than the black Mits.
post #4132 of 4744
Quote:
Originally Posted by joepaiii View Post

How many people use the dynamic iris on their 9500? How many like it? It is really starting to bug me, I like the better blacks but hate the pumping or yoyoing it causes in the light levels. I was watching the avengers in 3d and some of the early scenes in the lab were driving me crazy.

I got my 9500 yesterday afternoon. I have had a front projector for nearly a decade now but I must have paniced. I couldn't get it to work. I was so blurry. After going through all the documentation I finally found the focus ring. Duh!

I had never had a projector before with a dynamic iris. Right now I can't see why anyone would want such a thing. Even on the lowest setting, it is intrusive. I'm going to check out Acu-motion (or whatever it's called) next. I may end up turning that off too.
post #4133 of 4744
I got my new projector from Newegg. I ordered on Saturday and received it on Wednesday. That's about two business days. They did charge about $100 in tax but nothing for shipping. The box and packaging were very impressive however the seal had been broken. I think this was probably by the factory or vendor to upgrade the firmware. It had 22 hours on the machine and 9 on the bulb.

I had some problem with accessing the service menu. I assumed at first that the power/left/left/menu sequence was from the control panel with the projector off. Wrong. It's from the remote with the projector on. I thought that that would first of all turn off the machine. Wrong again.

The 2D picture is great. I had been without a projector for about two months. I bought a Vizio 32" 1080 3D LCD flat screen TV as an interim. It was only about $350 on Amazon. The picture on that TV is super sharp and the passive 3D is excellent but it seems so small when you are used to a 110" screen. I had bought a Sony 3D helmet as an interim too. But this morning when I turned on the projector I issued a loud sigh. At last! The long drought was over. I could see TV the way God intended - on a huge screen.

I have a Netflix subscription. I stopped watching Blu-rays a couple weeks ago so as to save up for proper viewing once I had a projector again. I have "The Hurt Games"and two others. I watched "The Grey" last night in 720p Netflix streaming. The picture seems perfect although the plot was goofy. Why didn't they make spears from the wreckage of the airplane?. Or armor? I wear a "hoodie" around the house on cold mornings but these guys just wear caps in the deep artic. These wolves must be from Al Queda or some other terrorist sect. Why so determined to do harm to Americans? They weren't hungry.

Oops. I spun off into my movie reviewer mode for a moment.

I would like to have a setup like that of Mike2Cents. I have a Harmony Universal remote. I'm out of devices to add. I put my Roku back as a device so now I have to choose between my flat screen and my projector. And I will have to get up and unplug one to get the other. Ugh! My Onkyo receiver only has one HDMI output so I'm guessing that I will need a splitter. I would like to just pull down the screen at night when I want to watch a movie and cover up the TV behind it. For now that will be a problem for later.

I have to noodle with the 3D first and then the PIP. Does the PIP work? I was surprised to see it as a menu choice. I didn't remember reading about it before.
post #4134 of 4744
Quote:
Originally Posted by PLB View Post

I got my 9500 yesterday afternoon. I have had a front projector for nearly a decade now but I must have paniced. I couldn't get it to work. I was so blurry. After going through all the documentation I finally found the focus ring. Duh!
I had never had a projector before with a dynamic iris. Right now I can't see why anyone would want such a thing. Even on the lowest setting, it is intrusive. I'm going to check out Acu-motion (or whatever it's called) next. I may end up turning that off too.

Turn it off would be my advice unless you want everything to look like a soap opera. Maybe on the lowest setting it's okay, but I think acu-motion sucks.
post #4135 of 4744
Quote:
Turn it off would be my advice unless you want everything to look like a soap opera.

That is why I only have it set to on (low) for watching 3D movies. It really works well but that soap opera effect is horrible.

Does anyone know or exists there some research why the frame interpolation actually creates this soap opera effect, making every movie looking so cheap?
Will future 48 Hz movies suffer from the same problem even when viewed in a cinema?
post #4136 of 4744
Quote:
Originally Posted by bosko12 View Post

Hello guys. I'm a french user.
I received the Acer H9500BD last week with the door broken. I asked for a remplacement so the projector is gone in Germany. I also asked for the new update ... I hope it will be installed.

My customer send me a new one ... so I will not have the new firmware ...
post #4137 of 4744
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nobsi View Post

Quote:
Turn it off would be my advice unless you want everything to look like a soap opera.

That is why I only have it set to on (low) for watching 3D movies. It really works well but that soap opera effect is horrible.

Does anyone know or exists there some research why the frame interpolation actually creates this soap opera effect, making every movie looking so cheap?
Will future 48 Hz movies suffer from the same problem even when viewed in a cinema?

Just google hfr 48 fps and red. There is great web page from red that demos a lot of the issues at play. Red is a camera/projector maker who is building some of the latest 4k/8k high frame rate cameras being used to record movies.
post #4138 of 4744
Quote:
Originally Posted by joepaiii View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nobsi View Post

Quote:
Turn it off would be my advice unless you want everything to look like a soap opera.

That is why I only have it set to on (low) for watching 3D movies. It really works well but that soap opera effect is horrible.

Does anyone know or exists there some research why the frame interpolation actually creates this soap opera effect, making every movie looking so cheap?
Will future 48 Hz movies suffer from the same problem even when viewed in a cinema?

Just google hfr 48 fps and red. There is great web page from red that demos a lot of the issues at play. Red is a camera/projector maker who is building some of the latest 4k/8k high frame rate cameras being used to record movies.

Here is the link

http://www.red.com/learn/red-101/high-frame-rate-video

It explains where this is all going, doesn't really answer why there is a soap opera effect but my guess is that since they are creating frames in between existing ones this leads to an artificial fake look. Plus some of it is just the difference between what we are use to with 24fps.
post #4139 of 4744
The Red site was very interesting but not exactly responsive to the question as to what causes the "soap opera effect". That page was about the benefits of High Frame Rate filming. It made a point of which I was unaware. I had always thought that 24fps was chosen as the lowest possible speed that eliminated visual flickering. But apparently that's not true. 24fps was chosen for audio reasons. The Jazz Singer was 1927 so before that time the frame rate could have been lower and there still would not have been flicker. This also means that the standard 24fps has a margin for error. It is well above the flicker fusion threshold. Good to know.

The article also reports on interpolated TVs and decides that they are inferior to real HFR. That's hardly surprising. The demo they show however is not of any "soap opera" look but rather of ghosting which as far as I know isn't a problem for real interpolating sets like the Acer. Or am I wrong?

The technology of interpolation is easy to understand if you've ever worked with animation software. Typically you draw a key frame and then another key frame maybe ten frames later. The software will "tween" them. That means that the stick figure in the first frame will be replicated in the second frame but with the stick figure redrawn a few pixels toward the image in the next key frame. Computers do this quite easily but generally the animation figures are simple and the tweening isn't done in real time. Video interpolation in a TV or projector attempts to create whole complex figures in real time. That would take real computing horsepower. Maybe the dreaded "soap opera look" is an artifact of insufficient computing power.

To test this hypothesis one could do the interpolation outside of real time as a separate process that you could compare with the real time one. Much the same sort of thing must happen with 2D to 3D processing. I imagine that Cameron's outside of real time post processing of Titanic (that cost millions) will look better than the 2D to 3D real time processing done in the Acer.

If I'm right about this then over time as computation power increases Acu-Motion and 2D to 3D processing will get better and more lifelike.

Of course I'm just making up how I would code up Acu-Vision and 2D to 3D processing. I've never actually read anything about how those technologies actually work. Maybe I'm full of beans. (Wouldn't be the first time)
post #4140 of 4744
I'm having trouble with my Harmony 650 universal remote. First of all apparently the set up programming site no longer works with the Windows default browser Internet Explorer. That had me stumped fo a couple hours till I found a support site that recommended using Chrome. Voila.

But now I've run out of devices on the Harmony. I had to delete my new flat screen TV that I had bought as an interim while I waited for the Acer firmware upgrade to get finalized. So for now I can't switch between the two of them. I want TV for daytime viewing and projector screen for night time. I had deleted my Roku box which I use for Netflix and Amazon movies because the TV had those already built in. But for the Acer projector I needed to re-connect my separate Roku box. Alas the tiny Roku box counts as a full device on my Harmony. The Vizio TV includes VUDU but my first generation Roku doesn't support VUDU so I've lost that capability. I'm not real sure I want VUDU. My Internet connection is a 5Mbps DSL so maybe I can not get 1080 streams anyway. Or maybe with some added storage, a new Roku (or other) box and non streaming HDX down loads I can get 1080 movies by planning ahead.

In the meantime my brand new Panasonic 3D Blu-ray player isn't working for some reason. So I can't compare Blu-ray with streaming or Blu-ray 3D with Comcast VOD 3D. Then of course I will have to tackle any problems that these changes have induced in my new Sony 3D helmet. I bought all this new equipment almost by mistake. Every time I'd have a problem I'd buy something new. I do not recommend this as a course of action. I have more incompatibilities now than when I started.

Just figuring out all this stuff is becoming a full time job.
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