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Epson 3010 vs Optoma HD33 - A user's perspective

post #1 of 366
Thread Starter 
NOTE: Update 11/12/11: When i wrote my original review on 10/28 (in black color text) I didnt realize I got a lemon for 3010 and so my initial impressions were not very favorable....now I got a replacement which has no prior issues and I am strongly inclined towards 3010 as you can see in my updated comments in red color

I am starting this new thread to collect my thoughts on what I observed so far between HD33 and 3010 and encourage anyone who own(ed) them and can make similar comparisons. As you will see, I am torn between the two and I am hoping this exercise will help me decide which way to go eventually as the professional reviews are not much helpful in bringing out the real pors and cons we all are looking for.

First a quick background. I am new to PJ world and dont have any biases for/against LCD or DLP. I am a huge 3D enthusiast and bought a Panasonic plasma 3dtv only to be disappointed with terrible crosstalk. That led me to look for a 3D projector and my search lead to HD33 which I owned for a few weeks and thoroughly enjoyed. However I eventually returned it as it had some issues (such as settings getting erased, loud noise when changing from 3D to 2D, missing menu items for some FW versions, C0 firmware that cant be upgraded online or via USB according to guitarman, now you hear some users compaling that their remote doesnt work and only way to shut down the PJ is t pull the power cord...not good for bulb life) and I read bad reviews about Optoma's customer support which I did not want to deal with. It seems the only way you can get reliable support from Optoma is to upgrade to HD3300 for another $170 to $320 (depending on if you need to pay state tax) which has 3 year replacement warranty, but before going that route I wanted to see whats this new Epson 3010 is all about.

As each camp is biased for their own solution, I decided to find out for myself and went and got the 3010 from Best buy. Here are my initial impressions comparing the two...please note that I am not a professional reviewer and solely go by what my beyes see and so dont flame me if you don't agree with what I observed. Also I will not go into any technical details but will try to highlights my perceptions of how they differ from user experience.

1) Packaging: HD33 comes in a colorful box that shouts out its 1080p 3D and many folks including me reported that the box had a side flap that usually comes open risking loss of accessories. The 3010 comes in a well packaged black and white plain box and doesnt even mention 1080p 3D in bold letters.

2) Pricing: Cant discuss exact pricing but if you do the math you will realize that Epson can be obtained for $300 less than Optoma. Here I took HD33, added a 2 year 3rd party warranty, 2 RF glasses to make it equal in high level features to Epson (which has many other extras like speakers, PIP, USB photo viewer etc). So clearly Epson has a lot going for its price. So the question is what does Optoma have extra over Epson thats $300 worth ?
Update 10/29 HD3300 will cost a little more (sales tax could be additional burden in some states) but you get 3 year warranty instead of 2.

Update 11/12/11:T truely equalize warranty, one has to compare 3010 to HD3300 and the price difference quickly becomes huge....something budget PJ buyers need to evaluate carefully..I for one can see myself getting more glasses for the price difference

3) Build: I really liked HD33 when I first saw it. However, 3010 is beautiful to look at, feels more sturdier in exterior casing. The HD33 has a manual lense cover thats attached to the PJ witha string...but you risk messing up the focus/zoom when you use the lense cover as they are around the lense. 3010's lense cover doesnt attach to PJ so has a risk of getting misplaced...but it doesnt mess up the zoom/focus settings as they are not near the lense.

4) Noise/Sounds: HD33 has louder fan noise even in eco mode and 3010 is much quieter in 2D mode but I heard the fan or whatever at a higher level in 3D mode. However, my 3010 has this annoying loud noise when the auto IRIS is enabled. It sounds like a rusty door opening and closing as the image intensity changes and it gives an uneasy feeling that some thing may break soon. Similarly HD33 has a baby-moo sound when switching from 3D to 2D, but this is a much more rarer event so not as annoying.
Update 10/29 I am getting used to the IRIS which sounds like a harddrive as one of the users put it. I will get a replacement unit and see if its a universal issue...if it is, then this can be a big negative for some.
Update 11/12/11:The replacement 3010 has no IRIS noise whatsoever just like Art said ! Yeahahahhahaha!!!! Now I barely hear it and the PJ is truly quiet

5) Setup: I am projecting from a table top onto a 120" 1.0 gain white matt screen (no light control in my room) and I found 3010 was much easier to setup owing to its extar zoom and lens being centered (no H or V keystone used).
Update 10/29 Not sure what i am missing, but HD33 filed my whole screen but 3010 filled my screen vertically, but left some gaps lengthwise.
Update 11/12/11:With a few adjustments to focus and zoom, am now able to fill the entire screen...however I think 3010 gives more flexibility for people who dont want to mount the projector in a fixed sweet spot as it has Horizontal V-shift and centered lens.

6) 2D Image: When I first projected HD33, my jaw just dropped with the super sharp image and colors out of the box and i was almost in tears as I realized how you can get a superb 1080p 120" image for fraction of a cost of HDTV ! I tried several movies and played some photos and there is almost 3D-like quality to the image and I finally understood what they DLP-POP people keep talking about. I was thrilled to see well defined square pixels resulting in sharp edges. See my HD33 initial impressions HERE

Having been impressed with many of the positives mentioned above, I was very eager to see what 3010 would look like and I fired off the inbuilt pattern that is a blue screen with a white cross hair. Out of the box, I noticed several artifacts. First its not as sharp as HD33 even when perfectly focused and I clearly saw the RGB not converge for many pixels on the white cross hairs. I felt let down for not being able to see well defined pixels and the images or videos looked significantly softer than the HD33. Having said that, I have not yet watched any 2D movie so far and so am keeping myself open to be surprised at the 40000:1 contrast ratio. I want to test out guitarmans statement that ANSI contrast of LCD will not match DLP.
Update 10/29 I sampled some 2D movies such as Cars and Transformers, and I am beginning to love the vibrant film-like image quality of 3010. You need to see it for yourself to decide which is more important for you POP or Film like quality. After watching mofre 2D sources, I dont see any negative effects from not seeing the individual pixels and the color convergence has not showed up in normal watching, so I am thinking both these are minor issues. I loved the POP of HD33 but 3010 is no less impressive and perhaps to me it looks even better than HD33 in many respects. The skin tones on 3010 seem to be more vibrant than HD33 and 3010 gives explicit controls to change skin tone that will allow you to tune it the way you like (very imporatnt for non-videophiles who may prefer to tune as professional calibration is out of reach for many $wise) and overall image is no less impressive than the HD33 ones that guitarman posted on HD33 thread. So to my eyes both PJ's will deliver a n excellent image that will blow you away. I wish the IRIS noise is not a major issue as this 3010 has a lot of good in its favor. Also even though the image is brighter than HD33, it doesnt hurt my eyes as HD33 did (cant explain why) and you can be assured that 3010 will deliver excellent image even with ambient light, somethin i value highly as i dont have dedicated HT room and my living room has good ambient light. In this regard 3010 has a lot of potential to be a better choice for many non-videophile customers like myself who canbt dedicate room for a batcave and crave for humongous screen size with no less bright image. BTW, I did not perceive 3010 to have any less contrast than HD33 in 2D mode. Unless you are a videophile, you cant tell the difference in black levels that easily.
Update 11/12/11: I am pleasantly surprised to find that the replacement 3010 has near perfect convergence of RGB owing to which I am able to see my beloved pixels Now the image is not only very sharp but also has a bit of pop to it and I can finally let go of my fond memories of HD33 The blacks and Contrast to my eyes are just as good as HD33 in my non-blacked out living room....people with batcaves may be able to percieve the difference in blacks better...but most non-videophile uses like me will be perfectly happy with the blacks....I have seen many more movies offlate and I swear that even in bright scenes with black objects the blacks are as deep as HD33 an dofcourse in all dark scenes the IRIS is doing its magic to make the blacks rich with details. Another thing I am now convinced about 3010 is that eventhough this PJ is very bright even in Cenema mode, it somehow does not hurt my eyes as my previous two bright DLPs id (HD33 and HD66)...I read somewhere that some people are sensitive to DLP brightness...may be I am one of those...but 3010's bright image is very pleasant to the eyes

7) 3D Image: HD33 had superb 3D image with ZERO ghosting (optoma-dlp-link glasses) in a wide variety of 3D content and the contrast with glasses ON seems much much higher than in 2D mode with inky blacks. As expected 3010 has noticeable drop in contrast and the blacks look grayer than HD33 in 3D mode as IRIS is turn off (gald it was off as there no more annoying noise) while watching step-up-3d which has many high contrast scenes....however you will get used to it if you have never seen a HD33 before so not a big deal if you are not spoiled For example, when i watched DriveAngry, I was pleasantly surprised to see that many of the dark objects looked inky black on 3010 eventough the contrast is lower and this may be because your eyes will create an illusion of deep balcks in the presence of bright objects. I saw some of the previous movies and noticed that there is very faint ghosting in many scenes where there is too much depth or pop out. However it is not as jarring as it was on my Panny 3dtv and something you can live with as its not that distracting. However the colors on 3010 are a lot more vibrant and image is brighter than HD33. Although I loved everything about HD33 3D image, I felt the image is very restrictive to factory setting as I did not find other settings very pleasing. The HD33 glasses were more darker and the color seems to be not as clear as the 3010 (more below).
Update 10/29 I sampled some more 3D movies (Tangled, Tron, Gaurdians) and found the every so faint ghosting in high contrast scenes but I am glad to report that these are minor and most people will not notice them. But the highlight is I am really liking the quality and colors of 3010 more than HD33. Interesting thing is 3010 is brighter than HD33 but it doesnt hurt my eyes the same way as HD33 (I cant explain this). In spite of relatively lower contrast and minor ghosting, 3010 delivers awesome 3D images and there is no doubt users will enjoy it as much as HD33. Also I think i am beginning to like the filim-like quality with vibrant colors even in 3D mode. To me the image is a lot more consistent between 2D and 3D on 3010 as opposed to HD33 where I felt the 2D and 3D have different look. Anyway, in the end Epson has done a superb job in getting 3D to budget market and stands in its own right next to HD33. Even though the POP is missing, the 3D effect and depth is no less satisfying on 3010 and you will not be disappointed in any way.
Update 11/12/11:Other than better native contrast, the reason HD33 has deeper blacks is because the DLP-links were much more darker which give better blakcs at the cost of more loss in 2D to 3D brightness. 300's glasses are noticeably lighter in color which sacrifices a bit of blacks but yields much brighter imgae in 3D compared to HD33....I think this is a good tradeoff in the long run as one could always use the extra brightness to compensate for lamp aging The replacement 3010 has significantly lower crosstalk....almost negligible....I do see it once in a while but something I will gladly live with in exchange for much better performance in every other aspect such as brightness and excellent natural looking color...again my 3D sources are limited to blurays and games so people who cant live without daily dose of 3D may prefer HD33. One interesting thing to note here that many HD33 owners have recently complained that they are seeing cross talk with the RF glasses that doesnt go away with tuning also. Having said that I am curious to see if I can try out the RF glasses on 3010 to see how it works. Also as the new units has almost perfect convergence, the 3D has better pop and the colors are so much more natural to my eyes than HD33.
8) IQ: After seeing the above negatives in my original 3010, I almost made up my mind to return the 3010 and get a HD3300 till something interesting happened as i continued to watch the movie. I started playing with the image settings and i was very impressed to see 3010 has a lot of flexibility in image settings that encapsulate a lot of details into presets that work very well across many settings (such as gamma, color temp, tinit, color saturation etc). I found that 3D image quality on 3010 has an undeniable quality and color inspite of the lack of pop and sharpness as the HD33....i think i am beginning to understand what people mean about "Film like" quality when describing LCD. The interesting thing is that I am beginning to fall in love with it in terms of the color quality and flexibility. Contrary to this I did not find any other settings on HD33 to my liking other than the ones given by guitarman for 2D (for 3D only the factory settings seem to be the best so far).
Update 10/29 I cant put it in words, but I think i am beginning to like 3010 more than HD33 for some of the positives I mentioned above and will try to see if a replacement unit has any better IRIS noise.

9) lag: I have not tested this myself yet, but would like to quote other 3010 users who report that 60ms lag can get very annoying for avid gamers. I did play games on HD33 and did not notice any such lag.
Update 10/29Played a bit of KillZone3, and the lag is there but you may get used to it....like someone below said, if you are a single player gamer like myself it may not be a big deal...The image quality is just as awesome as it was on HD33 both in 2D and 3D. Will try to play some more games to see if this becomes a pain in the a$$ for me...I hope not as I love this PJ in many respects

Update 11/12/11: Played a few more games and I didnt notice it much in Uncharted-1 but Infamous I noticed a bit more...but something I beleive I can get used to.....will have to play more to be certain though

10) glasses: Already wrote a length review of optoma-dlp-link on HD33 forum, but to summarize they work perfectly with no sync-loss and are heavier than Epson glasses which also showed no sync loss....whats surprised me is that even though they are IR, they did not lose lock even when I went into another room until I was completely out of sight...just like the dlp-links. Epson glasses are much lighter and one of the best fitting models I have tried across many brands. However there is a huge downside I noticed....all my remotes were malfunctioning suddenly and I replaced battries but nothing helped, till I turned off the PJ....then I realized that IR is completely clobbering all my remotes....so this means you need to come out of 3D mode even to change volume on your AV !
Update 10/29 I found that only my AV remote is messed up and not my bluray 6700 player (PS3 uses bluetooth so no issues there). Also I hear that 3010 uses a universal 3D standard that may allow one to get cheaper glasses down the line that work with no compatibility issues.
Update 11/12/11: Cant wait to try the samsung IR glasses that came with 2010 models...if they work, its a hiuge win ad you get many ecplusive movies like IMAX combo, Dragon, Shrek 3D along with 2 pairs of glasses

11) Speakers : 3010 comes with built in speakers that sound very good....with these, Epson is truly portable without the need for an AV receiver and may appeal to people who are looking for a mobile HT PJ.
Update 11/12/11: For some one who dont plan to mount this PJ in a fixed location, the speaker and brightness offer a great flexibility....I for one am looking forward to move it to my bedroom to play some late night games while lying down....ofcourse need to worry about extra brighness that shows up as the screen size will be much smaller owing to smaller throw distance in my bedroom

I will be testing this more in coming days and will continue to update my impressions...but for now I am torn between the two great projectors each of which has their own unique advantages !
Update 10/29 I am beginning to lean towards 3010 (barring any IRIS issues and lag issues) and I think everyone deserves to do this kind of comparison for themselves before deciding which way to go as its very difficult to figure this out reading the forums, although they are very helpful. Also I found PC's review of HD33 more accurate and Art's review of 3010 more accurate.


Update 11/12/11: Ok, I spent more time with settings and I found that 3010 has a Standard-sharpness mode which goes all the way to 5 and it was not sharp enough. I went deeper into the menu to access an Advanced-Sharpness mode which allows you to increase sharpness more (think line, thickline, horizontal, vertical sub modes) that make the image very sharp....on par with HD33

Some Photos of 3010 are attached below...not the very best shots owing to low quality of my camera...the actual image looks a lot more breathtaking


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post #2 of 366
Interesting, I too have owned the HD33 and Sony HW30 and I currently have the Epson 3010 (for about a week now) and I actually prefer the Epson's 2D image much more than the HD33. I found the colors to be very blown out on the HD33 even with moderate tweaking. The HD33 is definitely a sharper unit but I found it to be a little overbearing on some 2D material, especially TV content where it made everything just look "ugly." I actually had my dad over watching an SEC football game and he asked me why I had the game on in SD. Granted not all channels display the same level of 1080p material through DirecTV, the game looked fine on my upstairs Samsung DLP. We watched RIO on bluray later that night in 3D and everyone thought the movie was fantastic because of how colorful it was. For those that do not like a "soft" looking projector, I am not sure I would go with the Epson because it favors more of an LCOS look than anything.

The main thing I do not like about the Epson is even after a moderate calibration attempt the skin tones still favor a hint of red. I have a 140" screen so my room setup did not do the HD33 any favors. I also could not fill the entire 140" from the same throw distance I have the Epson which can actually go larger than my screen. Both were a pain in the butt to setup but I like that the Epson has more keystone abilities. I was going to mention the lense cap but you beat me to it, I hated how it is connected on the HD33 and everytime I removed it I screwed something up. I haven't had any issues on the Epson thus far with just slighty pushing it on. The other only real negative I can throw at the Epson is the IRIS sounds like an old hard drive. This is not a problem for me because the projector is mounted above and behind my seats but if there is very little sound in the room or near your head, you are going to hear this thing for sure.

I used the demo material I did on my HD33 (there are screenshots I posted of the Epson in another thread) for 3D and I found near 0 ghosting/crosstalk on the Epson in everything I tried which was over 10 movies. For those saying that the HD33 blows it out of the water, IMO, do not know what they are talking about because I find the 3D on the 3010 to be very capable. Is it perfect? Probably not, does it throw a good 3D image for a $1500 projector? Yes it does. There will always be trade offs with all these units, even the higher end ones.

For build quality I agree, I felt the HD33 is cheap and the packaging it comes in is also poor IMO. At least Epson takes some extra steps to protect their units and it feels like a more solid unit. The HD33 honestly looks and feels like a toy to me. This is a very subjective opinoin and really shouldn't matter in deciding on the two.

In regards to the blacks I also agree, if you have never seen another 3D projector the black levels aren't bad. They aren't HW30 quality, but I don't think most people would be that disappointed with it. I watched Space Hubble 3D and found the movie very watchable and I like my blacks inky which is why I have the RS45 on order. The Epson does shut down the IRIS in 3D mode but you have Dynamic and Cinema 3D settings to choose from and I watched everything in Dynamic and had no issues overall with the blacks. Again, they aren't perfect but they aren't horrible either. My brother has an Epson 8350 and I may ask him to bring it by if possible to see how it stacks up in 2D.

Input lag I only played Gears 3 and Batman on the Epson. About to fire up the new Battlefield to see how it does. I played everything from halo, to Gears 3, to Fifa, to Basketball on the HD33 so I can do some comparisons this weekend on the Epson since I am feeling better. I won't say I am a PRO gamer any more, but I play enough first person shooters offline,online and fighting games to know if it will be a problem.

Very good post as many people are going back and forth on these right now. For those wondering, I ended up keeping the Epson and selling the HD33 because I feel the 3010 is superior in 2D, just as capable in 3D on many levels, and I like the extra tweaking features it has vs. the HD33. The HD33 did have a few more neat features like puremotion and I liked how easy it was to swap between the image ratio setups which also included advanced tweaks. I have the RS45 on order as my main theater projector and plan on using the Epson for gaming/tv viewing in my secondary room. If the input lag is too great I will probably dump the Epson lineup all together this year and wait on the new Mitsubishi DLP coming out even though it is double the price.

For reference sake, I have owned over 15 projectors at least ranging from almost ever year Epson LCD since the original 1080UB model, Panasonic's LCD models starting with their 720p series, MANY of the 720p 3D DLP units (Optoma, Viewsonic, Acer) the BenQ W1200, Mitsubishi HC4000, JVC RS40, JVC 250HD, Sony VW70, Sony HW30, and currently Epson 3010. My older brother has the new 1080p Panasonic 3D projector setup for football this weekend so I may swing by there to do a quick comparison.
post #3 of 366
Been researching these two projector's and appreciate the comparison. Of course Acer has one now too in this price range, DLP higher contrast rating then HD33 with their H9500BD.
I think your write up just pushed me towards either the HD3300 or the H9500BD. I do play games like Call of Duty etc and lag is a killer.
With LCD tv's I always see the pixel's playing catch up in sports or large amount of fast moving objects. Have not viewed a LCD projector is that a issue with the LCD projectors too?
post #4 of 366
Good points made regarding the two projectors. You're never going to get perfect at this price range, but there is a lot of bang for your buck in both of these projectors. If you are planning on going with a cinemascope setup, the Optoma is the only one that has support for an anamorphic lens. I, as well as many others, would like to see a comparison between the two with respect to games. I play with PureMotion set to max on the Optoma HD3300 and it is just super fluid. I absolutely love it.
post #5 of 366
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmalto View Post

For those wondering, I ended up keeping the Epson and selling the HD33 because I feel the 3010 is superior in 2D, just as capable in 3D on many levels, and I like the extra tweaking features it has vs. the HD33.

This comment makes it seem like you actually had them at the same time for comparison and went with the best one.

I thought the main reason you sold the HD33 was because you were having some issues with making it work in your setup? You even state in the quote below that you were going to get rid of it, regardless. So you didnt really sell it "because" of anything the 3010 can do better like you state above, or am I wrong?


Quote:
Originally Posted by jmalto View Post

So I got the projector hooked up and "somewhat" in an acceptable position. My shelf is definitely not good for a DLP without lense shift and I had to put a bunch of boxes under the projector to get it angled down enough to get the picture centered. The zoom is also not enough to fill my 140" screen so this one will definitely be going back after I play with it some more.

Im sorry, it just seems very misleading to me.

And by the way, thank you Falafala for the write up. Im sure many will find it quite helpful.
post #6 of 366
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt in Houston View Post

This comment makes it seem like you actually had them at the same time for comparison and went with the best one.

I thought the main reason you sold the HD33 was because you were having some issues with making it work in your setup? You even state in the quote below that you were going to get rid of it, regardless. So you didnt really sell it "because" of anything the 3010 can do better like you state above, or am I wrong?




Im sorry, it just seems very misleading to me.

And by the way, thank you Falafala for the write up. Im sure many will find it quite helpful.

Please do not start trying to call BS when I have absolutely no reason to fabric anything. I honestly could care less what people buy, I am just trying to help

I have not been in the HD33 thread in quite some time. I had originally RETURNED it on the 29th day back to the place I purchased it from because of the reasoning above and rebought it from a friend looking to replace his older Projector a week or so later. He did not have the funds at the time to purchase mine and I told him if he bought it and we couldn't make it work I'd take it off his hands because I decided to put a projector in my gaming room instead of using it as a filler until my RS45 came in. He has his projector mounted to a ceiling mount and we simply could not get the offset right. I sold the HD33 on fleabay probably 2 days before I got the Epson to help raise funds so we aren't talking a month or weeks in between viewing sessions. There is nothing stopping me from selling the Epson to replace it with the HD33 if I wanted to. If that my makes OPINION irrelevant so be it, but you are going to be hard pressed to have owners of both these units at the exact same time I think. In the case of the OP, he has never owned a projector before so he will either love DLP like most do, or favor the Epson for the reasons I outlined; it simply comes down to personal preference almost with these two and what size screen/lighting conditions you will be using them on.

I never said the HD33 is not a good unit, in fact if you only care about 3D and gaming I would probably take it over the Epson. I want a balance of 2D viewing, 3D viewing, and gaming since this is my SECONDARY unit; I feel the Epson fits that bill nicely for *MY* needs and requirements. If this is your primary projector the Epson is not leeps and bounds better than the HD33 in 2D, but in 3D it is brighter and to some that is a major plus that have large screens. In 2D this is the projector's biggest downfall and whites will blind you at times, even in ECO mode. If I had a smaller screen (game room has 130") say around 100-120" and spent a tad more time on the calibration the HD33 very well may of looked better in 2D than what I experienced. I do believe Art's review of both these units side-by-side concluded he liked the Epson better in this regard as well.
post #7 of 366
Quote:
Originally Posted by man4mopar View Post

Been researching these two projector's and appreciate the comparison. Of course Acer has one now too in this price range, DLP higher contrast rating then HD33 with their H9500BD.
I think your write up just pushed me towards either the HD3300 or the H9500BD. I do play games like Call of Duty etc and lag is a killer.
With LCD tv's I always see the pixel's playing catch up in sports or large amount of fast moving objects. Have not viewed a LCD projector is that a issue with the LCD projectors too?

Honestly input lag is hit or miss regardless of the technology from what I've seen. CRT is the supreme king I believe when it comes to low input lag but for awhile I only played games on my 67" Samsung DLP TV and had no issues with it. I had a 2010 Samsung Plasma last year that had great input lag response time but I swapped it out for a 2011LG PZ650 and despite the LG having better specs, the input lag response is marked around ~100-110 and you can really see it when hooked up to a computer. If I remember correctly, 16ms of input lag is 1 frame of lag but don't hold me to this formula

If you are buying for primarly gaming you will not be disappointed with the HD33 in any regards. I played through all of Gears of War 3 in 3D on it and loved every minute of it.

For the big gamers viewing this thread that may have one of these units, pick up the new Sonic demo that just came out this week. It is actually in 3D and it is an orgasim for your eyes Not a lot of popout but really great depth and the colors are intense.
post #8 of 366
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmalto View Post

Honestly input lag is hit or miss regardless of the technology from what I've seen. CRT is the supreme king I believe when it comes to low input lag but for awhile I only played games on my 67" Samsung DLP TV and had no issues with it. I had a 2010 Samsung Plasma last year that had great input lag response time but I swapped it out for a 2011LG PZ650 and despite the LG having better specs, the input lag response is marked around ~100-110 and you can really see it when hooked up to a computer. If I remember correctly, 16ms of input lag is 1 frame of lag but don't hold me to this formula

If you are buying for primarly gaming you will not be disappointed with the HD33 in any regards. I played through all of Gears of War 3 in 3D on it and loved every minute of it.

For the big gamers viewing this thread that may have one of these units, pick up the new Sonic demo that just came out this week. It is actually in 3D and it is an orgasim for your eyes Not a lot of popout but really great depth and the colors are intense.

I have played call of duty on this ad battlefield 3 and teh lag is significant as I had hooked to a pc playing a friend on is pc and he was killing me for fun as he had quite an advantage of pulling the trigger before me. On my acer 27 pc montior this does not happen. Epson 3010 has MAJOR LAG if you dont notice it you probably just think everyones faster than you online when your suffering reaction delay. If you game pass this one up your wasting your time and the iris noise is loud, quiet movie passages and you here it BIG TIME !
post #9 of 366
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmalto View Post

Please do not start trying to call BS when I have absolutely no reason to fabric anything. I honestly could care less what people buy, I am just trying to help

There is nothing stopping me from selling the Epson to replace it with the HD33 if I wanted to. If that my makes OPINION irrelevant so be it, but you are going to be hard pressed to have owners of both these units at the exact same time I think.

Fair enough, if I had your room constraints I wouldnt keep it either...And of course most of us dont actually care what each of us ends up buying, after all we arent getting a sales commission here.

It just seems like you really didnt have a choice in the matter so you are justifying what works best for you. I dont see how you would want to replace the Epson with another HD33 with the way your setup is.

Also, I cant say because I havent owned the 3010, but I dont see how the 2D picture can be much better although I cant rule it out. The ansi contrast and native contrast are both lower than the Optoma. It has no DLP "pop". It has possible convergence issues. The only thing it has going for it is a loud iris that gives it an edge in the darker scenes, and no rainbows. As for the colors, In the HD33/HD3300 thread there are several calibration post of numbers and no one has complained that I know of. So how the Epson can have the better 2D must be in the eye of the beholder because it doesnt make sense on paper, at least to me.

Either way, I know you are just trying to help, and thanks for that.
post #10 of 366
Quote:
Originally Posted by pxjunky View Post

I have played call of duty on this ad battlefield 3 and teh lag is significant as I had hooked to a pc playing a friend on is pc and he was killing me for fun as he had quite an advantage of pulling the trigger before me. On my acer 27 pc montior this does not happen. Epson 3010 has MAJOR LAG if you dont notice it you probably just think everyones faster than you online when your suffering reaction delay. If you game pass this one up your wasting your time and the iris noise is loud, quiet movie passages and you here it BIG TIME !

Think I read some place people testing 60ms on the 3010 and around 30ms on the HD33. I am hoping to find info on the Acer H9500BD.
post #11 of 366
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt in Houston View Post


Fair enough, if I had your room constraints I wouldnt keep it either...And of course most of us dont actually care what each of us ends up buying, after all we arent getting a sales commission here.

It just seems like you really didnt have a choice in the matter so you are justifying what works best for you. I dont see how you would want to replace the Epson with another HD33 with the way your setup is.

Also, I cant say because I havent owned the 3010, but I dont see how the 2D picture can be much better although I cant rule it out. The ansi contrast and native contrast are both lower than the Optoma. It has no DLP "pop". It has possible convergence issues. The only thing it has going for it is a loud iris that gives it an edge in the darker scenes, and no rainbows. As for the colors, In the HD33/HD3300 thread there are several calibration post of numbers and no one has complained that I know of. So how the Epson can have the better 2D must be in the eye of the beholder because it doesnt make sense on paper, at least to me.

Either way, I know you are just trying to help, and thanks for that.

The Epson has better blacks from what has been reported by Art, and his screenshots clearly show this. The Epson is significantly brighter as has been reported as well. Those are major factors for buyers, and the professional installer I spoke to concerning the 3300 told me he could not recommend the 3300 on a screen larger than 120" for 3D unless you went HP. My screen will be white with 1.2 gain. The fact he told me to go with a cheaper projector that is brighter vs one that he could sell me and have more markup on told me what I needed to know.

Both projectors have their positives and negatives, and both are entry level 1080p projectors. You can only expect so much and if you want more expect to pay 2-3 times the price right now. It comes down to your room and preferences. I really debated between the Optoma 3300 and the Epson 3010. It was a tough decision. My room (with some ambient light with daytime viewing, and projector placement and screen size) was just a better fit for the Epson. I have owned both DLP and LCD and they both have pros and cons.
post #12 of 366
The overall difference from what I'm reading is that the HD33/3300 is sharper and more color pop than the 3010. To me this makes all the difference. And if you love to tweak adnauseum and want slightly brighter 3D, then the 3010 fills the bill. This is pretty anal stuff for only the true projector junkies to worry about IMHO. We have to realize that a year from now these will both probably be $1,000 projectors.

Also, I have my HD3300 pointed at my DIY 142" 1.3 screen and it's definitely bright enough. I can't figure out what the fuss is.
post #13 of 366
Quote:
Originally Posted by ack_bk View Post

The Epson has better blacks from what has been reported by Art, and his screenshots clearly show this.

Yes, I mentioned that it has an iris which so far people are complaining is some what loud. So of course you will have better blacks in darker scenes as the iris is working. But what about the rest of the movie?

I guess I just dont get it. The blacks arent THAT bad on the Optoma, and I think this has a lot to do with how your room is setup. Of course they are both considered "entry level" but what a dynamic term that is as technology is ever increasing each year.

Anyway, I concede that I would rather have better 2D image quality and pop for 75% of the movie than just better blacks in 25% of the dark scenes. Just my opinion.
post #14 of 366
Quote:
Originally Posted by threed123 View Post

The overall difference from what I'm reading is that the HD33/3300 is sharper and more color pop than the 3010. To me this makes all the difference. And if you love to tweak adnauseum and want slightly brighter 3D, then the 3010 fills the bill. This is pretty anal stuff for only the true projector junkies to worry about IMHO. We have to realize that a year from now these will both probably be $1,000 projectors.

The lumen numbers are more than just slightly. Per projectorcentral and projectorreviews the real world Optoma lumen numbers are not even close to the advertised spces. The 3010 offers significantly more lumens across the board for 2D and 3D fro what I can tell. If your screen is smaller or you you have a high gain screen the extra lumens may not matter, Of course pumping up the lumens affects your contrast. So there are tradeoffs and it will come down to environment and user preference.

And I do agree that DLP typically gives you more pop.
post #15 of 366
I stayed up till 4am playing games to give you guys a better impression since I haven't had a lot of time with the 3010 in this area. I will say it is hit or miss if the input lag impacts you. Battlefield in single player I had no problems, multiplayer between my normal lag and the input lag wasn't fun and I could see it impacting someone that is really into FPS games. I am a huge Halo fan and I had a bad night any time we played snipers. Other games if they are NORMAL paced you shouldn't be that affected, anything fast moving you will probalby notice it. In sports games I didn't have any issues in Basketball but in Baseball when pitching something felt "off."

The new Sonic game (Generations) I noticed what appeared to be a low/jerky framerate in a couple of areas and I was surprised Sega would release it in that state. I decided to take the 360 upstairs on my DLP I didn't notice it at all. I'm not sure if my mind was playing tricks on me because I did this about 3AM I popped in Forza 4 and played WipeoutHD on the PS3 to see how racings games fair and in Forza I had no issues but in Wipeout I saw similar things I did with Sonic in that it looked like the framerate was jumping a bit. I've beaten this game 100% through on my DLP TV and never noticed this before.

If you play games by yourself it isn't a huge ordeal, if you are going online I would say it probably will handicap you a little bit.

Games tested (note I tried to play a wide range of games)

Halo Reach - murdered in snipers
MW2 - hit or miss if i felt input lag or regular lag
Battlefield 3 - felt input lag online
Gears 3 - never noticed anything
Batman Arkham City - not noticeable
Forza4 - not noticeable
WipeoutHD - somewhat noticeable in appeared to be jerky framerate
Sonic Generations - somewhat noticeable in appeared to be jerky framerate
Mortal Kombat Collection - Not noticeable
Marvel Vs. Capcom 3 - Noticed when trying to do combos
The new Mortal Kombat game released this year - Not noticeable
Virtua Fighter 5 - Noticed when trying to do combos
Bloodrayne XBLA - noticed it slightly in controls
Street Fighter 4 Arcade Edition - not noticeable
NBA Jam On Fire Edition - not noticeable
NBA2K12 - not noticeable
MLB The Show - noticed in pitching
post #16 of 366
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt in Houston View Post

Yes, I mentioned that it has an iris which so far people are complaining is some what loud. So of course you will have better blacks in darker scenes as the iris is working. But what about the rest of the movie?

I guess I just dont get it. The blacks arent THAT bad on the Optoma, and I think this has a lot to do with how your room is setup. Of course they are both considered "entry level" but what a dynamic term that is as technology is ever increasing each year.

Anyway, I concede that I would rather have better 2D image quality and pop for 75% of the movie than just better blacks in 25% of the dark scenes. Just my opinion.

Make no mistakes about it, the IRIS is loud (at least mine is.) It definitely sounds like the old Maxtor hard drives that would just churn when they started to die.

I have a beefy sound system (4 subs, JBL PRO speakers) and at moderate levels on my Denon last night (around -40db) I could hear the IRIS when I flicked it into High Speed. On normal speed the blacks have a hint of blue in them (I think there is something going on with my unit, whole different strory) so I have to use it in this mode to get acceptable blacks.
post #17 of 366
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmalto View Post

I stayed up till 4am playing games to give you guys a better impression since I haven't had a lot of time with the 3010 in this area. I will say it is hit or miss if the input lag impacts you. Battlefield in single player I had no problems, multiplayer between my normal lag and the input lag wasn't fun and I could see it impacting someone that is really into FPS games. Other games if they are NORMAL paced you shouldn't be that affected, anything fast moving you will probalby notice it. In sports games I didn't have any issues in Basketball but in Baseball when pitching something felt "off."

The new Sonic game (Collections I think it is?) I noticed what appeared to be a low framerate but when I took it upstairs on my DLP I didn't notice it at all so I would say anything fast moving you are going to see what appears to be a sluggish frame rate. I popped in Forza 4 and played WipeoutHD on the PS3 to see how racings games fair and in Forza I had no issues but in Wipeout I saw similar things I did with Sonic in that it looked like the framerate was jumping a bit. I've beaten this game 100% through on my DLP TV and never noticed this before.

If you play games by yourself it isn't a huge ordeal, if you are going online I would say it probably will handicap you a little bit.

Games tested:

Halo Reach
MW2
Battlefield 3
Gears 3
Batman Arkham City
Forza4
WipeoutHD
Sonic Collections
Mortal Kombat Collection
The new Mortal Kombat game released this year
Virtua Fighter 5
Bloodrayne XBLA
Street Fighter 4 Arcade Edition
NBA Jam On Fire Edition
NBA2K12
MLB The Show

Sounds like you had a fun night. What console do you have BF3 on? I am considering it for PS3 just as a change from COD...I play a bit but Im getting bored with the whole series.

Thanks for posting your findings.
post #18 of 366
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt in Houston View Post


Yes, I mentioned that it has an iris which so far people are complaining is some what loud. So of course you will have better blacks in darker scenes as the iris is working. But what about the rest of the movie?

I guess I just dont get it. The blacks arent THAT bad on the Optoma, and I think this has a lot to do with how your room is setup. Of course they are both considered "entry level" but what a dynamic term that is as technology is ever increasing each year.

Anyway, I concede that I would rather have better 2D image quality and pop for 75% of the movie than just better blacks in 25% of the dark scenes. Just my opinion.

Some people are finding the iris to be loud, some people are not. This is a common complaint with Epson, and like Rainbow with DLP it will annoy some people and others won't notice it. If you are sitting right below or right next to the projector the Iris noise may be too much. If I find it to be an issue with me the projector goes back.

Some people are going to prefer the Epson some will prefer the Optoma, it is good to have choice.
post #19 of 366
definitely good to have the choice

I have my epson in a box basically, so the iris is almost inaudible, but it probably would be audible if I had it out in the open.
post #20 of 366
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmalto View Post

I stayed up till 4am playing games to give you guys a better impression since I haven't had a lot of time with the 3010 in this area. I will say it is hit or miss if the input lag impacts you. Battlefield in single player I had no problems, multiplayer between my normal lag and the input lag wasn't fun and I could see it impacting someone that is really into FPS games. I am a huge Halo fan and I had a bad night any time we played snipers. Other games if they are NORMAL paced you shouldn't be that affected, anything fast moving you will probalby notice it. In sports games I didn't have any issues in Basketball but in Baseball when pitching something felt "off."

The new Sonic game (Collections I think it is?) I noticed what appeared to be a low/jerky framerate in a couple of areas and I was surprised Sega would release it in that state. I decided to take the 360 upstairs on my DLP I didn't notice it at all. I'm not sure if my mind was playing tricks on me because I did this about 3AM I popped in Forza 4 and played WipeoutHD on the PS3 to see how racings games fair and in Forza I had no issues but in Wipeout I saw similar things I did with Sonic in that it looked like the framerate was jumping a bit. I've beaten this game 100% through on my DLP TV and never noticed this before.

If you play games by yourself it isn't a huge ordeal, if you are going online I would say it probably will handicap you a little bit.

Games tested (note I tried to play a wide range of games)

Halo Reach - murdered in snipers
MW2 - hit or miss if i felt input lag or regular lag
Battlefield 3 - felt input lag online
Gears 3 - never noticed anything
Batman Arkham City - not noticeable
Forza4 - not noticeable
WipeoutHD - somewhat noticeable in appeared to be jerky framerate
Sonic Collections - somewhat noticeable in appeared to be jerky framerate
Mortal Kombat Collection - Not noticeable
Marvel Vs. Capcom 3 - Noticed when trying to do combos
The new Mortal Kombat game released this year - Not noticeable
Virtua Fighter 5 - Noticed when trying to do combos
Bloodrayne XBLA - noticed it slightly in controls
Street Fighter 4 Arcade Edition - not noticeable
NBA Jam On Fire Edition - not noticeable
NBA2K12 - not noticeable
MLB The Show - noticed in pitching

Awesome post, big ups for this. You played alot of very popular games that cover the entire gaming spectrum. I agree single player you will not notce that much but online and reaction games will be a no go. Rockband is another game not listed that suffers again timing so you realy feel the lag
post #21 of 366
Right now I can sit 10 feet away from my 142" screen and say--wow, IMAX 3D in my own home! With either projector we win.
post #22 of 366
Quote:
Originally Posted by defiancecp View Post

definitely good to have the choice

I have my epson in a box basically, so the iris is almost inaudible, but it probably would be audible if I had it out in the open.

You have to do your homework, that is for sure. The only way I could make the Optoma work in my room (placement) was by using some keystone, which I really wanted to avoid doing. I don't need to use any keystone to make the Epson work. It was definitely a deciding factor for me, along with the cost savings and more lumens which was probably the biggest factor. The pro that I talked to likes the 3300 very much but he was very clear that the Epson was much brighter on a 125-130" 16:9 screen and he did not feel the Optoma would have enough brightness in 3D vs the Epson and I explained that we often have football parties and there is some ambient light challenge, which means the more lumens the better. For 2D I think it is a wash from what he said. The Epson will have better blacks on darker scenes but the Optoma has the DLP "pop". So it really came down to lumens and placement for me. He seemed like an honest guy.
post #23 of 366
Matt - All games were on 360 except Wipeout HD and MLB The Show. I typically only play COD, BF on the PC but I sold my gaming laptop recently (I swap stuff out all the time) so I am limited to the 360 for now unfortunately.

If you want to pm me your gamertags shoot them over and maybe we can play something.

Final comment on the IRIS, my Epson is about 4 feet behind my listening position raised about 8-10" above my head and I can hear it over my EP4000 with stock fan which is sitting on top of my DTS-10 sub next to the projector. I wouldn't not get the Epson because of the IRIS because most people would have the sound louder than what I did last night. Anything around the -30DB mark (0 reference) you won't hear it.
post #24 of 366
Quote:
Originally Posted by threed123 View Post

Right now I can sit 10 feet away from my 142" screen and say--wow, IMAX 3D in my own home! With either projector we win.

Agreed, and we did not have to spend $3k. I was completely unimpressed with the much more expensive 1080p 3D projectors that were released last year. I spent some time with a JVC RS40 and for 3D, it was way too dim. 2D it was great.

I spent about $1500 out the door for the Epson and if I get 2-3 years out of it I will be happy.
post #25 of 366
Quote:
Originally Posted by ack_bk View Post

You have to do your homework, that is for sure. The only way I could make the Optoma work in my room (placement) was by using some keystone, which I really wanted to avoid doing. I don't need to use any keystone to make the Epson work. It was definitely a deciding factor for me, along with the cost savings and more lumens which was probably the biggest factor. The pro that I talked to likes the 3300 very much but he was very clear that the Epson was much brighter on a 125-130" 16:9 screen and he did not feel the Optoma would have enough brightness in 3D vs the Epson and I explained that we often have football parties and there is some ambient light challenge, which means the more lumens the better. For 2D I think it is a wash from what he said. The Epson will have better blacks on darker scenes but the Optoma has the DLP "pop". So it really came down to lumens and placement for me. He seemed like an honest guy.

I didn't measure the brightness of any of my 3D projectors, but the Epson is the brightest projector of any I've owned thus far in a 1080p model. It is the first projector where you can take off the glasses and not notice a substantial amount of light loss. When I flicked Sonic Generations into 3D mode my eyes about popped out of my head from all the bright colors WITH the glasses on.

As mentioned above, if you are going to use the HD33 on a smaller screen (under 130") I think it would make a fine choice for 2D or 3D. If you plan on using it on a very large screen, I would get the Epson for the added brightness most definitely. The blacks on the Optoma are not bad by any means, I think the Epson just excels with its iris for a $1500 projector. When used in high speed mode I think the blacks are very acceptable in 2D. in 3D modem I'd say the Optoma has the upper hand because the iris is disabled on the Epson but they still aren't bad by any means.

I too had to use a lot of keystoning to get the HD33 setup correctly. I am having to use some on the Epson as well, but the 3010 gives you more keystoning options which really helps. Either way, people need to understand when you buy a projector without lense shift you must have your screen and spot for the projector figured out correctly or be prepared to stick books under the unit to raise or lower it. I could use the 3010 with no keystoning if I sit it on top of my Denon but I am not sure the heat from the receiver would be doing it any favors

If anyone wants to see subpar screen shots, I posted quite a bit in the "Just got my 3010 Epson" thread. I took them with my iphone looking through the glasses so you could see the brightness level and black levels so don't expect magazine quality shots
post #26 of 366
Thread Starter 
I have updated my review in blue color dated as 10/29/11

I am surprised at my own change of mind and conclusions.

Bottomline is you will not be disappointed by either of these PJ and they are both packing a huge punch for budget PJs.
post #27 of 366
Quote:
Originally Posted by falafala View Post

I have updated my review in blue color dated as 10/29/11

I am surprised at my own change of mind and conclusions.

Bottomline is you will not be disappointed by either of these PJ and they are both packing a huge punch for budget PJs.

How is the brightness of 3010 comapred to 33 ?

ps : I'm hoping to see someone compare to Acer H9500BD as well. That seems to have the best of both 3010 & HD33 - DLP with Iris and even has a Lens Shift !
post #28 of 366
Quote:
Originally Posted by evnow View Post

How is the brightness of 3010 comapred to 33 ?

ps : I'm hoping to see someone compare to Acer H9500BD as well. That seems to have the best of both 3010 & HD33 - DLP with Iris and even has a Lens Shift !

Don't worry, when they are shipping I plan on getting one I am hoping it will save me from getting the 7800 Mitsubishi since it costs much more.
post #29 of 366
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmalto View Post

Don't worry, when they are shipping I plan on getting one I am hoping it will save me from getting the 7800 Mitsubishi since it costs much more.

Newegg is shipping. Someone already got it & posted a thread on that here.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1369451
post #30 of 366
Quote:
Originally Posted by evnow View Post

Newegg is shipping. Someone already got it & posted a thread on that here.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1369451

Just saw that, I may put my order in later this afternoon after I read through the thread. I like that it has 2D > 3D capabilities even though it is usually worthless on most units.
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