Official Sony VPL-VW95ES Owners Thread - Page 46

Originally Posted by maximus74

Hi,
Yesterday i calibrate my 95es,according to lovingdvd suggestion with Iris on Auto 1.
I adjusted the white level and my greyscale is almost perfect,a little off only at 10%(red).
Gamma was set to OFF,and and the value is now on 2.33.
RCP was set to OFF and in this way is practically almost perfect on all saturation check (25,50,75 and 100%). Only Green at 100% is a little over saturated ,but not by much,only a little.What is funny is,now after greyscale adjustment i have 47cd/m2.In the first day when i made the measurement i was on 44,7cd/m2(maybe i was doing wrong with something).
Practically if you are OK with gamma between 2.2 and 2,45, you don't have to make many adjournments to have a very, very good picture..
I have 43 Hours on my lamp in low mode.

Originally Posted by lovingdvd

In your case how many lumens does 44.7 cd/m2 work out to? And where are you in the throw range (long, mid, short)?

No you are not crazy. I experienced something similar that I think I mentioned already - my lumens has gone up about 5-8% from when I first calibrated it even though I now have 80 hours on the bulb compared to just 2 or 3 back then.

In my case I may have found a trick... When I switched to the Wide 3 color mode I noticed that my dE at 100% changed even though I hadn't calibrated the color yet. It turned out that this gave me more headroom in red. So I was able to increase the red gain to get to a dE less than 1 and pick up some additional brightness and on/off CR as a result. Sweet!

Note that this trick would only provide acceptable results if you are using a VP to do the CMS (or technically you could use RCP but may face linearity issues like SOWK reported). Also note that this should be considered a preliminary discovery because I haven't gone back and double checked it.

I like watching the 1080p24 frame packed 3D with Motion Enhancer set to High. Note that the Motion Enhancer control is only available in this 3D mode, unfortunately. I did not initially realize the extent of the downside of this, but after spending a night trying some very fast scrolling PS3 3D games like Sonic Generations, I certainly do.

More specifically, very fast non-stop scrolling 3D games do not look choppy, but it is harder on the eyes and a bit blurry compared to playing on my Samsung plasma in 3D. I believe the plasma has its own motion handling that does runs in 3D mode, which could account for the difference. I am reaching out to Sony engineering to see if they will consider adding support for Motion Flow with SbS, TnB and 720p60 frame packed 3D.

Originally Posted by millerwill

1 cd/m^2 = 0.292 ftL, therefore he's getting ~ 13 ftL

Oops--he beat me to it!

Originally Posted by maximus74

Support for Motion Flow with SbS, TnB and 720p60 frame packed 3D.
Do you think is possible this thing?
If so ,it will be great

Originally Posted by lovingdvd


In theory you are supposed to do it with the Auto Iris off. However I noticed that when the Auto Iris is off, the grayscale measures totally different.

For instance with the Iris set to Manual I used the Custom 1 color temperature to adjust 100% to a dE of 0.6. But when I changed over to Auto1 Iris the dE at 100% measured over 3 with this same color temperature!

After seeing this, and since I do all my viewing with Auto1, I decided to calibrate everything (grayscale, gamma and gamut) with the auto iris on.

When doing gamma I was careful to use full field patterns (very important with the iris on!) and to wait about 3-5 seconds after each pattern change to give the iris time to fully adjust (you can see that sometimes a pattern starts out a bit dimmer and then within a second or so reaches its brightness level).

I do not know if this is technically correct, but I can say that the results look spectacular with test patterns (gray steps, ramps etc) and real world material.

Originally Posted by fight4yu

By saying you need to wait 3-5 seconds, I think you already notice that the IRIS do CHANGE from %WHITE. And because of that, you are NOT calibrating GAMMA... Even if you use AUTO-IRIS in normal viewing, calibrating with Auto-IRIS ON will NOT give you the GAMMA you are looking for.
The reason you see 100% WHITE dE difference changed between manual and AUTO-IRIS is likely an artifact of the projector design. In Manual mode, you fixed your IRIS to one fixed aperature, and that aperature if I were to guess, is probably different from the aperature when you are using AUTO-IRIS (I presumed it is fully opened). In an ideal world, the GAMMA and dE should stay the same with ALL aperature openings, but they are more than likely NOT. What I think you can try is to find out the aperature setting of AUTO-IRIS when you project 100%, and then manually set the aperature and then calibrate all the way. Your dE at 100% should now be the same for both.

Basically, consider aperature and %WHITE as a matrix. Aperature say goes from 1-10 (A[1:10]) and %WHITE from 0-100 (W[0:100]). Gamma is a function of W[0:100]) for a fixed aperature (since for every frame, there is only 1 aperature setting). i.e.
example 1:A[0]W[0], A[0]W[10], A[0]W[20].... A[0]W[100]
example 2:A[3]W[0], A[3]W[10], A[3]W[20].... A[3]W[100]
example 3:A[8]W[0], A[8]W[10], A[8]W[20].... A[8]W[100

However, when you use AUTO-IRIS to calibrate, what you are getting maybe something lke A[0]W[0], A[1]W[10], A1[W20], A3[W30] ... A10[W100]...So, it looks OK in your graph, but it is not real GAMMA you are measuring.

Originally Posted by lovingdvd

Thank you for the fantastic information! First a clarification - when I say to wait 3-5 seconds it is just to be careful. When I think about it more, I do not recall actually seeing any of the patterns actually change in brightness level from the time they are display until the following few seconds. For example if I pull up a 70% full field pattern after moving from a 65% full field pattern, I do not see the 70% pattern start at one level and then get brighter or dimmer.

The only time I noticed obvious brightening is when I first switch on an image when the pj is black. So for instance if there is no signal going to the pj and then I sent it a signal from my cable box with a still frame - when the picture first appears it is one brightness level and then over the course of the next second I see it get brighter and become more vibrant.

You bring up a great idea about trying to match the manual iris to the auto iris... Since as a baseline you suggest using a 100% full field pattern from the auto iris, this would suggest a manual iris position somewhere near maximum open. Maybe not quite the full maximum, but likely near the top of the range.

As a test I can dial in a 100% full field with the auto iris on so that the dE is close to 0. Then switch to the manual iris, and move it so that it is all the way open. Then measure dE of a 100% full field pattern and see how close it is to D65. Then start closing the iris down one step at a time and measure dE at each step, noting if it is getting closer or further from my dE with the 100% pattern with the auto iris on. I can continue measuring until I determine which iris position gives the dE which is closest to that reference auto iris measure. At that point we have the ideal manual iris position. What do you think?

OK so let's see if I have this straight. You are saying to first calibrate dE from 5-100% with the auto iris on. Then use the above procedure to find the manual iris position that best matches the dE when comparing 100% full fields in manual iris to 100% full field in auto iris. Then once that manual iris position is identified, to then calibrate the gamma in the manual iris mode. Then put the pj back in auto iris mode and run it that way. Yes?

It sounds like an interesting and reasonable approach. However I am a bit skeptical that it will work, because as I mentioned earlier, making adjustments to the gamma with the manual iris mode most likely is going to throw off the RGB balance and therefore the dE. You can then fix that in the manual iris mode no problem, but then the dE is now off in the auto iris mode...

Also your theory (if I understand it right) assumes that the dE tracking is linear with the auto iris vs manual iris, which in practice it may not be. For example let's say a 100% full field with auto iris on measures the same as with a manual iris set in position 95. Great. But its quite possible (likely) that then the 95% full field with auto iris on would not measure the same as with the manual iris set in position 95. It may require a different position, say 90. So then we have a situation whereby matching the auto iris to the manual iris is dependent on the brightness level, which of course will then be impossible to calibrate using the approach we are talking about there.

Thoughts?

Originally Posted by fight4yu

The "problem" with using Auto-IRIS do calibrate GAMMA is, you do NOT know what lens opening you are calibrating to. I think instead of checking and see if it is "brighter or dimmer" when you switch %WHITE (which is hard to tell by the pattern, because both the IRIS and the %WHITE is changing to come up with the "RIGHT" luminance), you can check the IRIS opening visually and see if it close or open. The easiest way to check is get a 100% pattern, and then throw a 10% pattern.. if you see the IRIS close down in the 10% pattern, you know that AUTO-IRIS is working.

Having said that, if AUTO-IRIS is indeed working when you are throwing the 0-100% WHITE pattern, then what you see as a "good dE" across 0-100% is artificial. Let's make things simple by saying there is only 2 IRIS opening, and let's say from 0-40%, you have the HIGH opening, and say from 50-100%, you have the LOW opening. So, basically, you achieve good dE on 0-40% for LOW setting, and good dE on 50-100% for HIGH setting...

In real-world material, any scene will only be projected using 1 fixed lens opening. In one scene, say it is using LOW setting... In that scene, there is likely 10% material, and also 80% WHITE material... You see the issue now? the 50-100% WHITE material on LOW IRIS opening is not calibrated... and further more, you are also not calibrating the 50-100% GAMMA for this IRIS opening...

To be honest, I think if the dE and GAMMA does not track well with different IRIS opening, both method will NOT give you the correct GAMMA and dE in Auto-IRIS mode (will be OK in Manual IRIS mode). If the GAMMA tracks well, then using calibration with MANUAL IRIS will at least give you a chance. Also, I will take GAMMA more serious than dE.. as long as dE is <3.
What you can also do is to measure GAMMA across a few different IRIS setting and see how it tracks. If it tracks well, then at least you know you will get real GAMMA during real-world viewing.

Originally Posted by joerod

i am not opposed to trying the new 104s but i will say xpand has left a bad taste in my mouth with the firmware promises of the 103s which never happened. Not to mention they will still not be as good as the monsters when it comes to keeping sync no matter what position you turn your head. You can even lay down completely or go to the restroom and the monsters won't lose sync. That is another huge plus...

Originally Posted by krfuquamd

Just a few questions as i prepare for my 95's arrival.

Sounds like MV3D glasses are preferred. Are Optoma glasses the same and if so is there a model # for those? Do I need anything else (besides one MV3D kit and as many Optoma glasses as I need plus the Sony glasses that come with the projector) to get all these glasses to work together?

maybe a stupid question but I assume my existing AVR in the theater room is not compatible with 3D. It is a Pioneer Elite 84. Are most people running a HDMI cable directly from there 3D bluray player to the 95 and a separate one from the bluray to there avr for audio or do I need to just replace my existing avr with one that is 3D compatible. If the latter, and this may be a question for another section of the forum, which AVR are folks gravitating to these days? Thanks

Originally Posted by Deja Vu

Joe -- how about running a Benq W7000 against the Sony in 3D to find the differences. Dlp vs. SXRD. The W7000 is under $3,000 so this shouldn't be a big deal. Does DLP still rule 3D? I'd like to see a DLP vs. other technology for 3D -- that's what this forum is all about. Why aren't the professional reviewers doing this with photos of crosstalk etc.?

Originally Posted by joerod

I am not opposed to trying the new 104s but I will say xpand has left a bad taste in my mouth with the firmware promises of the 103s which never happened. Not to mention they will still not be as good as the Monsters when it comes to keeping sync no matter what position you turn your head. You can even lay down completely or go to the restroom and the Monsters won't lose sync. That is another huge plus...

Originally Posted by krfuquamd

Just a few questions as i prepare for my 95's arrival.

Sounds like MV3D glasses are preferred. Are Optoma glasses the same and if so is there a model # for those? Do I need anything else (besides one MV3D kit and as many Optoma glasses as I need plus the Sony glasses that come with the projector) to get all these glasses to work together?

Originally Posted by lovingdvd

The more I experience the VW95 the more I am blown away by the PQ. Really outstanding. I can't quite put my finger on it, but something about it really makes action scenes (among others) more intense than usual.

The picture is just so dynamic and clear. Really draws you in. Makes you feel you are there.

Also I played around with the Film Projection setting under the Motion Flow options. I found Auto 2 to be very interesting and enjoyable instead of having this setting Off as I was using before. It is hard to A/B though. Not sure, but with Auto 2 it seems to make the picture ever more solid. Anyone play around with this? What do you think?

I also noticed that in addition to the Auto Iris 1/2 modes and the Manual Iris mode, there is also an Off mode for the iris. Hummm. Personally I wouldn't use anything but Auto 1, but I am wondering if the Off position may be better suited for calibration purposes than the Manual position. I also wonder if the Off position is the same as Manual set to the maximum (100). Anyone?

Originally Posted by lovingdvd

The more I experience the VW95 the more I am blown away by the PQ. Really outstanding. I can't quite put my finger on it, but something about it really makes action scenes (among others) more intense than usual.

The picture is just so dynamic and clear. Really draws you in. Makes you feel you are there.

Also I played around with the Film Projection setting under the Motion Flow options. I found Auto 2 to be very interesting and enjoyable instead of having this setting Off as I was using before. It is hard to A/B though. Not sure, but with Auto 2 it seems to make the picture ever more solid. Anyone play around with this? What do you think?

I also noticed that in addition to the Auto Iris 1/2 modes and the Manual Iris mode, there is also an Off mode for the iris. Hummm. Personally I wouldn't use anything but Auto 1, but I am wondering if the Off position may be better suited for calibration purposes than the Manual position. I also wonder if the Off position is the same as Manual set to the maximum (100). Anyone?