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Which circuit should I install home theater equipment on?

post #1 of 25
11/2/11 at 4:44am
Thread Starter 
All:

I need to install a new electrical outlet in a basement gym.

The equipment I will be connecting to the outlet are a 55 inch plasma, cable box, blu-ray player, and powered soundbar and subwoofer. These will be plugged into a power strip.

I have a choice of connecting the new outlet to either a 20 amp or a 15 amp circuit.

The 20 amp circuit would seem like a good choice, but it has a treadmill and exercise bike running on it that will likely be in use while using the home theater equipment. The 15 amp circuit has a computer, printer, and about 10 can lights and various standard wall outlets on it.

My question is: which circuit would be the best to connect the new electrical outlet to? Would I get a lot of noise on the 20 amp line from the exercise equipment and would that affect the home theater equipment? Would using a power conditioner help?

Many thanks!
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post #2 of 25
11/2/11 at 9:49am
I'm assuming running a dedicated 20amp circuit our larger subpanel with several circuits is not an option (obviously the best choice).

The treadmill should say in its documentation what its load is. If not, its probably printed on the motor itself. You need the same info for the computer, printer, lights, etc. Add the loads together for each circuit and you can see how much headroom you have. My guess is not enough on either. You certainly do not have enough on the 15amp circuit. It would not surprise me if that treadmill is using >10A alone when a person is on it.
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post #3 of 25
11/2/11 at 11:53am
Thread Starter 
etk29321:

Thanks for the email: I'm not an electrical expert, so please bear with me:

Let's see: the treadmill sticker says it's a 15 amp (!) motor--my understanding is that on a 20 amp circuit, you really shouldn't put more than 16 amps on it, so I guess I can't put anything else on this circuit. (although, this sort of doesn't make sense to me, as lots of people plug treamills in at home on non-dedicated circuits with other things on them.)

As far as the computer on the 15 A circuit: the max watts it draws is 400 watts max, plus 35 watts (max) for the monitor; plus printer 495 watts (max, when printing; otherwise 1 watt (sleep); 65 watts awake and ready): 930 watts, which leaves me a possible 1440 - 930 = 510 watts free or so. (I was wrong about the light bulbs--they are on a different circuit.)

So, 510/110 volts gives me about 4.6 amps to work with on the 15 amp circuit. I've looked at the current draw on my much larger home theater system with a power conditioner and at peak it draws 4.2 amps; however, that includes a larger plasma, 2 large subs, receiver, blu-ray, cable, sub equalizer, etc.)

Does this mean I should hook the plasma, blu-ray, cable box, and powered soundbar to the 15 amp circuit? Should I switch my television to an LED/LCD to conserve power?

I have an electrician coming to do the work tomorrow, so I'd appreciate any additional thoughts on this please.

Thanks for your help and patience!
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post #4 of 25
11/2/11 at 11:57am
Motors can induce "noise" on the power line and may be visible or audible.. plus two motors is a pretty good load on a 20a circuit. If it was me, and there was an open breaker slot on my panel I would pull a dedicated 15a circuit for the home theatre stuff, otherwise I would go with your existing 15a circuit.
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post #5 of 25
11/2/11 at 12:39pm
Thread Starter 
Hi, eric:

I wish I could pull another dedicated circuit into the space: it's a remote part of the finished basement and pulling another wire from the panel would be rather difficult.

The more I read about the treadmill (it's a Landice L7 with a 4hp motor in addition to the elevation motor), I think putting anything requiring a big current draw is asking for it (even on a 20 amp circuit).

Therefore, I'm learning towards giving the 15 amp circuit a try, and seeing how things go. If it is unworkable, then I'll just have to bite the bullet (and swallow the cash!) and try to figure out how to retrofit a dedicated line.

Where I am torn now is whether I should opt for a different TV than what I had planned (plasma v. LCD-- the power draw is 4 x less with the LCD: Sony 929 v. Panasonic VT30. That would give me just a little more headroom.

Any further thoughts anyone?
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post #6 of 25
11/2/11 at 1:01pm
Thread Starter 
Good news!

I just did some testing at my panel: it turns out that the 15A circuit that is available to me does NOT power the computer/printer/monitor. The only other load on that circuit are 11 (15 watt) overhead flood lamps for a total of 165 watts.

Given that the 15 amp circuit should have 1440 - 165 = 1275 watts available to me, I should be good to go on that 15 amp circuit right even with a plasma (286 watts), blu-ray (? watts) and cable box (? watts) right?
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post #7 of 25
11/3/11 at 9:46am
Home Theathers should have their own dedicated seperated circuits on a 20amp circuit. I made the mistake of not specifically telling the electrician who did over my basement to put in dedicated 20 amp circuits. He installed one 15 amp circuit on the wall I was to plug my HT into which also was powering the ceiling lights and it wasn't powerful enough to handle my HT..the breaker kept tripping, I was overloading it. Also, when the tv was on and I turned on the ceiling lights it affected the picture quality of the tv, it introduced line noise and static and my surge eliminator/power conditioner started to buzz a little louder.

Depending on how many pieces of electronics will be plugged into the circuit matters, some people have 4 seperate dedicated circuits for a HT. A member here who's a electrician told me that for powerful music amps (Carver/Sunfire, Parasound, Krell, Emotiva etc) that they should have their own seperate dedicated circuit and everything else should be plugged into another seperate circuit, the amp is the most powerful piece one uses in a home theater.

I would recommend having a State licensed certified electrician do the wiring of your HT and have him install atleast 2 seperate dedicated 20 amp circuits both on the same phase. The electrician should be licensed because if anything bad happens the insurance might not cover it.
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post #8 of 25
11/3/11 at 10:34am
Thread Starter 
I agree oppopioneer (I like your taste in components--I have the same in my main home theater). In my media room I have a dedicated panel and dedicated 20 amp circuits to power it.

However, in this case, it's just not a cost effective option for me (it's just an exercise area and we just want to be able to watch TV). Since this is basically a television with a cable box and blu-ray player (no external amps)--I'm going to give it a try and see how it goes. If I have the same problem you had, then I'll have an electrician tear up the place and run a dedicated 20 amp cirucuit.

Keeping my fingers crossed...
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post #9 of 25
11/3/11 at 11:50am
A TV, Bluray and cable box will draw maybe 200W total. You will be fine on a lightly loaded 15A circuit.

You can trip breakers if you run big power amps and watch at high volumes. Big subs with big power amps are expecially prone to causing breaker trips.

A laser printer also draws large current when it's heating the drum.

Most other things aren't that bad. For example, I doubt your PC will ever draw 400W unless it's a hell of a gaming machine.

Peter
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post #10 of 25
11/3/11 at 12:22pm
Hmmmm....

If you aren't tripping breakers, you are OK. FWIW you can safely run 15A through a 15A circuit all day and not trip a properly functioning breaker. That is 1800W. Yes, there are 80% rules in the NEC, but they don't apply to you as a user.

Now, if you have the walls open and are running new circuits, by all means install one or more dedicated circuits, and maybe even a separate subpanel, after doing all the appropriate load calculations.

FWIW all my gear is on a single dedicated 20A circuit. But I don't have a sub that is capable of replicating an 8.0 earthquake and my other speakers are more efficient than most. The system is still capable of driving me out of the room.
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post #11 of 25
11/4/11 at 11:00am
My 15 amp breaker was tripping with only a 60" inch plasma, cable box and bluray player when the lights were off, so just a heads up. The electrician first installed a AFCI breaker which are notorious for tripping though, we had that replaced with a standard breaker and it hasn't tripped yet. But the AFCI was tripping for a reason to let me know something. I hope I'm not stressing it.

A electrician's rule of thumb, a 20 amp circuit should have no more than 1920 watts of continuous load.
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post #12 of 25
11/4/11 at 12:29pm
Quote:


But the AFCI was tripping for a reason to let me know something. I hope I'm not stressing it.

Indeed it was. It was telling you that AFCIs suck. They trip on any arc such as produced by a vacuum cleaner, switch closure (or opening), relay click, and sometimes even the noise induced on the power line by a poorly filtered power supply. Don't worry, it wasn't being stressed.
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post #13 of 25
11/4/11 at 2:41pm
My AFCIs don't nuisance trip. Some times when AFCIs seem to nuisance trip it is because of a real problem than might have gone unnoticed with a regular breaker, for example a loose connection in a j-box. Newer AFCIs seem to be less prone to nuisance tripping than older ones. In any case, if AFCI nuisance tripping is an issue, you need to assess it on a case by case basis. Sometimes normal operation of some devices does look like a fault to some of them.
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post #14 of 25
11/4/11 at 2:48pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by oppopioneer View Post

A electrician's rule of thumb, a 20 amp circuit should have no more than 1920 watts of continuous load.

FWIW it is more than a rule of thumb. There are a few 80% rules applying to loads in the NEC which apply to continuous loads, permanently connected loads etc. Interestingly, unless it has changed very recently there is nothing which prohibits the total continuous and non-continuous, permanently connected and cord connected, loads from adding up to more than 100%. In any case, it is perfectly safe to run a circuit at its rated ampacity.
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post #15 of 25
11/4/11 at 6:27pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Colm View Post

My AFCIs don't nuisance trip. Some times when AFCIs seem to nuisance trip it is because of a real problem than might have gone unnoticed with a regular breaker, for example a loose connection in a j-box. Newer AFCIs seem to be less prone to nuisance tripping than older ones. In any case, if AFCI nuisance tripping is an issue, you need to assess it on a case by case basis. Sometimes normal operation of some devices does look like a fault to some of them.

When I was researching this topic before posting, I discovered that treadmills are notorious for tripping AFCI, even when the circuit should handle them easily. I don't know if that has to do with the actual mechanism of the motor producing what look like arcing to the AFCI breaker.

I wonder if plasmas, with their flourescent backlights and rapid tuning pixels on and off looks like arcing to some AFCI breakers.

I'm hooking everything up next Friday, so I'll let you all know what happens. The math says I'm OK, but I guess we'll see.

Thanks!
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post #16 of 25
11/4/11 at 7:11pm
Yes, the variable frequency drive electronics in treadmills are infamous for generating electrical noise and transferring it to the power line or transmitting it through the air. Doesn't have to be this way, but many manufacturers don't do what is necessary to prevent it. The only question is does it match what the AFCI is looking for as the indication of a fault. The AFCI manufacturers spent a lot of time and money identifying what arc faults look like and prevent nuisance trips. But sometimes all that effort seems to have been for nothing.
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post #17 of 25
11/4/11 at 8:59pm
Quote:


The AFCI manufacturers spent a lot of time and money identifying what arc faults look like and prevent nuisance trips.

Would that be the same AFCI manufacturers that got the bloody things stuck into the NEC in the first place?
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post #18 of 25
11/4/11 at 9:39pm
That would be them.

To be fair though, no manufacturer or group of manufacturers can get something into the NEC without a lot of support from other experts. There is a review process that all changes to the NEC goes through. Proposed changes are presented for comment by the appropriate committee to members of the AFPA. The committee reviews the comments and ultimately makes an educated decision.

Whether we like them or not, AFCIs are a fact of life. With the 2008 NEC, they are required for most branch circuits in a house that don't require a GFCI.
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post #19 of 25
11/5/11 at 12:59am
Was it the NEC or City and State laws that requite AFCI breakers to be installed in basements because of possibility of water/flooding in those areas?
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post #20 of 25
11/5/11 at 11:49am
I am pretty sure it is not the NEC. Are you sure it wasn't a GFCI? That would make more sense to me. IIRC current NEC requires GFCI for circuits in unfinished basements. And an AFCI would be required in a finished basement under 2008 NEC because it is a habitable space, but not because of water.
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post #21 of 25
11/5/11 at 2:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Colm View Post

And an AFCI would be required in a finished basement under 2008 NEC because it is a habitable space, but not because of water.

Yes, this is what I meant, my basement was done over into a living area so the electrician installed a AFCI where my HT is plugged into. He installed one 15 amp outlet, one circuit on a 14 or 16 gauge wire and that was it. The AFCI kept tripping so he came over and took off the AFCI and put on a 20 amp GFCI breaker on the same 14 gauge wire which is a potential fire hazard. Obviously he's never wired a home theater before. We later had another electrician come over who is licensed and certified by the State who wires the public schools and he took off the 20 amp breaker and put back on a regular 15 amp.
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post #22 of 25
11/5/11 at 3:49pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by oppopioneer View Post

We later had another electrician come over who is licensed and certified by the State...

Wasn't the first one?
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post #23 of 25
11/5/11 at 6:58pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Colm View Post

Wasn't the first one?

Good question, I believe he had a permit but he didn't act like it, he was ignorant on wiring a home theater, I think he did just basic work i.e. wiring bathrooms, kitchen lights etc.
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post #24 of 25
11/11/11 at 2:31pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mvp2005fan View Post

All:

I need to install a new electrical outlet in a basement gym.

The equipment I will be connecting to the outlet are a 55 inch plasma, cable box, blu-ray player, and powered soundbar and subwoofer. These will be plugged into a power strip.

I have a choice of connecting the new outlet to either a 20 amp or a 15 amp circuit.

The 20 amp circuit would seem like a good choice, but it has a treadmill and exercise bike running on it that will likely be in use while using the home theater equipment. The 15 amp circuit has a computer, printer, and about 10 can lights and various standard wall outlets on it.

My question is: which circuit would be the best to connect the new electrical outlet to? Would I get a lot of noise on the 20 amp line from the exercise equipment and would that affect the home theater equipment? Would using a power conditioner help?

Many thanks!

Just wanted to let ya'll know how things came out.

TV arrived this week. Before installing, I plugged things into a Belkin Pure Power conditioner which has a display showing how many amps the attached equipment is drawing at any given time. When everything was all on and playing, the numbers barely moved.

I, therefore, installed everything on the 15 amp circuit described in the thread (the one with the 11 overhead floods on it), and powered everything up.

Bottom line: all works fine--no noise from the treadmill, not a peep from the breaker. Whew!

Thanks to all for all your comments and suggestions!
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post #25 of 25
11/11/11 at 4:23pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by olyteddy View Post

Would that be the same AFCI manufacturers that got the bloody things stuck into the NEC in the first place?

Must be the same lot who also got those tamper proof receptacles stuck into the NEC too.


The wattage ratings are for the maximum power a device will draw. A computer with a 400w PSU will likely only be drawing 100w. My PC has a 700w PSU, but it only draws 130w with the monitor.

If you're worried, you can get a watt meter and look at what various devices are pulling.

Unless my breaker has seized closed, I can run my PC, HTPC, receiver, cable box, plasma TV, projector and more off the one 15A breaker that serves my living room.
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