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How do these brands compare to eachother?

post #1 of 16
11/6/11 at 10:39am
Thread Starter 
I'm looking for information about the different amp/pre-amp brands. Specifically:

Classe
Integra
Lexicon
Marantz
Mark Levinson
McIntosh
Pioneer Elite
Rotel
Emotiva

I'm a former Home Theater professional who has experience with Denon/Yamaha/Harman Kardon/Sony amps, but my knowledge on these higher level brands is basically nill.

I'm trying to get a feel for how they are different and how they compare performance vs price, etc...

Any information that can be given on any of these brands is very helpful.

Thanks.
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post #2 of 16
11/6/11 at 11:57am
If you want to know all that information, your poll is too superficial.
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post #3 of 16
11/6/11 at 12:38pm
Ever tried doing some search here or Google. There is a lot of information already here and elsewhere online. They are a bunch of inexpensive and ridiculously expensive brand names. So hard to make a fair comparison. Most amps are neutral. I dont believe anyone who characterizes amps like bright, warm etc.

If you want bang for your money, try Emotiva or used Rotel amps. I have been using the Rotel RB-1080 2ch amp for some 3-4 yrs now. Bought from Audiogon from original owner for $600 shipped in great shape. No hiss at all. Initially I bought them to drive the Magnepan MG12's but I sold the Maggies and now I have some Klipsch KG's. The KG's may not need all that power but never hurts to have more power.

If you have very low efficiency speakers then you have to check the amp sensitivity and the sensitivity of your pre-amp/AVR/processor to make sure you can get enough power from the amp. Though the Rotel RB-1080 is rated as some 200wpc at 8ohm, I just could not get enough power to drive the Maggies as my AVR (Denon 3310) just does not output enough pre-out voltage to get the most out of the amp. Sure you can use a 2ch analog pre-amp but then there isnt much bass management, room correction etc.

I suggest that you first set your budget and then shop for the amp that fits your budget because that list is all over the price point.
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post #4 of 16
11/6/11 at 12:53pm
Thread Starter 
I've had trouble finding direct comparisons between brands as opposed to individual reviews of specific components. I'm at the point where I've heard of all these brands but have no idea which ones sound the best, which ones give you the most performance for the dollar, specific strengths and weaknesses, etc...

Any help is appreciated. Thank you.
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post #5 of 16
11/6/11 at 1:03pm
I agree with Kal and Mupi. Not enough info.

There is probably no other piece of gear where the laws of diminishing returns kicks in sooner than with buying amps. As long as an amp doesn't clip (distort) and does not color the sound then it is doing its job. Any amp that does those two things will sound very similar regardless of $s spent. Throwing mondo money at big name amps won't increase the sound quality. Having more headroom won't either - something rather akin to having your choice of the 400hp Vette or the 560hp Vette and idling it in bumper to bumper traffic on a daily basis.

I see speaker shootouts all the time. With amps? Never have seen that.
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post #6 of 16
11/6/11 at 1:46pm
PARASOUND should be on your list.
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post #7 of 16
11/6/11 at 1:54pm
So should Anthem.
John
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post #8 of 16
11/6/11 at 2:42pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by coryshepard117 View Post

I've had trouble finding direct comparisons between brands as opposed to individual reviews of specific components.

Good reason: No one does this because people buy specific products and not a brand. In fact, individual brands can be more (or less) competitive in some ranges than in others. What is your goal? Are you going to buy a system or a company?
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post #9 of 16
11/6/11 at 2:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson View Post

What is your goal? Are you going to buy a system or a company?

Good answer, I like that!
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post #10 of 16
11/6/11 at 6:39pm
Thread Starter 
Soon I hope to start a position with a custom A/V design company that sells these products. They sell higher end equipment than what I'm used to working with. So I want to become more familiar with the brands.

I've found that the best way to gain knowledge, other than first hand experience, is to speak with those that are more knowledgable than you. Since I am unfamiliar with them, I was hoping I could gain some insight into the characteristics of these brands.

For instance, what kind of person would want to buy a Rotel Amp over a Mark Levinson Amp?

From my own experience using them, I've found that Harman Kardon Amps are generally more powerful and create more realistic sound than a Denon or Yamaha, even though many Denon's and Yamaha's are more expensive than most HK's for various reasons. These are the types of insights I'm looking for.

I'm simply hoping to rectify my ignorance, and thought this would be a good place to start.
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post #11 of 16
11/6/11 at 6:50pm
OP could also add Bryston to the list. Nothing can beat the 20yr warranty :-)

OP: If you have heard them all then you should already know the answer for your question. Most people try to listen to speakers and not bother about listening to an amp. An amp should not change the sound. I dont believe people who make euphoric claims that they heard things they never heard before with a new amp. When they go from a crappy receiver to a decent amp, things get louder which most people equate to better sound. The sound quality still depends on the source and speakers. An amp does not magically bring in the bass that didnt exist before nor does it color the sound in any way.

Like I said before one of the specific strengths could be the sensitivity. Lower the number higher the output that you can get even using cheapo receivers as pre-amps.
Emotiva amps have high gain as they are marketed for the AVR crowd i.e not much pre-out voltage so the amp gain has to be high. That may also increase the noise.

What speakers do you have, do you have an analog pre-amp or an AVR or a processor. Of course what is your budget. Otherwise, simply comparing different brands is not going to help. There is really not much to compare other than power, sensitivity etc. Comparing sound quality of amps is just meaningless in my opinion as a good amp should not change the sound quality.

I am not buying Emotiva amps because I cant handle an 80lb amp. I got the Rotel RB-1080 as it fits my budget and also weight requirements. Plus their build quality is solid. If the Emotiva XPA-2 was like 50lbs I would have bought one.
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post #12 of 16
11/6/11 at 6:56pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mupi View Post

OP could also add Bryston to the list. Nothing can beat the 20yr warranty :-)

OP: If you have heard them all then you should already know the answer for your question. Most people try to listen to speakers and not bother about listening to an amp. An amp should not change the sound. I dont believe people who make euphoric claims that they heard things they never heard before with a new amp. When they go from a crappy receiver to a decent amp, things get louder which most people equate to better sound. The sound quality still depends on the source and speakers. An amp does not magically bring in the bass that didnt exist before nor does it color the sound in any way.

Like I said before one of the specific strengths could be the sensitivity. Lower the number higher the output that you can get even using cheapo receivers as pre-amps.
Emotiva amps have high gain as they are marketed for the AVR crowd i.e not much pre-out voltage so the amp gain has to be high. That may also increase the noise.

What speakers do you have, do you have an analog pre-amp or an AVR or a processor. Of course what is your budget. Otherwise, simply comparing different brands is not going to help. There is really not much to compare other than power, sensitivity etc. Comparing sound quality of amps is just meaningless in my opinion as a good amp should not change the sound quality.

I am not buying Emotiva amps because I cant handle an 80lb amp. I got the Rotel RB-1080 as it fits my budget and also weight requirements. Plus their build quality is solid. If the Emotiva XPA-2 was like 50lbs I would have bought one.

I'm currently using a HK AVR-2600 with my Focal 826W's. I need some more power to really let them breath, so I'm considering my alternatives for the next step, as well as becoming more knowledgable for a A/V design job I hope to get soon.

Thanks for your input. I suppose a good question would be, if what you say is true, and the Amp doesn't make THAT MUCH of a difference, then why do people bother spending so much money on the uber-expensive equipment?
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post #13 of 16
11/6/11 at 10:14pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by coryshepard117 View Post


Thanks for your input. I suppose a good question would be, if what you say is true, and the Amp doesn't make THAT MUCH of a difference, then why do people bother spending so much money on the uber-expensive equipment?

Some people in the audio hobby like to listen to music - some like to listen to their audio gear. Improving sound quality often leads one to 'chasing their tail'. Once you have a good set of speakers and an amp/preamp with low noise floor and no clipping look to room treatments for that last 10% of sound quality - that'll make more difference than spending $10,000 on an amp. The high dollar guys will defend their purchases - thats fine. But the money is out there if you can pick the difference between amps. Read this unscientific A/B audio test. Tells you a lot about the differences between the big buck stuff and low buck stuff.

There is very little to discern between an Emotiva or Levinson amp. Sure - you'll hear about the massive capacitance reserves of the Levinson that the Emotiva doesn't have but just how often does anyone listen at levels that ever call on that reserve of power? Maybe once or twice while demoing it to a buddy while bragging about paying $60k for it. Thats about it.
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post #14 of 16
11/7/11 at 8:38am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Knucklehead90 View Post

Some people in the audio hobby like to listen to music - some like to listen to their audio gear. Improving sound quality often leads one to 'chasing their tail'. Once you have a good set of speakers and an amp/preamp with low noise floor and no clipping look to room treatments for that last 10% of sound quality - that'll make more difference than spending $10,000 on an amp. The high dollar guys will defend their purchases - thats fine. But the money is out there if you can pick the difference between amps. Read this unscientific A/B audio test. Tells you a lot about the differences between the big buck stuff and low buck stuff.

There is very little to discern between an Emotiva or Levinson amp. Sure - you'll hear about the massive capacitance reserves of the Levinson that the Emotiva doesn't have but just how often does anyone listen at levels that ever call on that reserve of power? Maybe once or twice while demoing it to a buddy while bragging about paying $60k for it. Thats about it.

That's a very interesting read thank you. Definitely gives you something to think about.
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post #15 of 16
11/7/11 at 9:26am
Quote:
Originally Posted by coryshepard117 View Post

That's a very interesting read thank you. Definitely gives you something to think about.

But if you get the job don't tell people what you've learned here if you want to keep it. You would not last long if you talked someone out of Levinson amp and convinced them to get an Emotiva.
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post #16 of 16
11/7/11 at 10:20am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjpearce023 View Post

But if you get the job don't tell people what you've learned here if you want to keep it. You would not last long if you talked someone out of Levinson amp and convinced them to get an Emotiva.

Lol. Very true. I've seen what happens to people who do that.
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