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The Austin Home Theater - Page 9

post #241 of 405
another overflow seating alternative....
LL
LL
post #242 of 405
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tedd View Post

another overflow seating alternative....

I'm not going to lie Ted-I'm not really sure what you are referring too.

Are you suggesting building a small riser under the seats so that people can sit up against it?

Thanks!
post #243 of 405
I'm suggesting that maybe you can pull off sewing too.

Just throwing it there....
post #244 of 405
Thread Starter 
I can do a lot of things...... but don't let me sew or cook!

Thanks Ted!
post #245 of 405
Thread Starter 
All AP exams are finished!! I now consider my 13 years of schooling to be complete (unless you count watching movies and playing board games all day as actually learning something since technically the last day of classes isn't until mid-june ).

Tonight we made some trips to a few carpet stores. While I was impressed with their selection, I kept going back to the Stainmaster Silver Lake that I've seen used in other builds (bzbase and damelon). I saw many similar styles at the other carpet stores, but Lowes was always a little cheaper than whatever I could find there. So we decided to head back to Lowes to check it out and, long story short, I convinced my mother that that carpet was the one for us and we scheduled a time to have someone come and measure the room.

I love the texture and the "checkerboard" look. I'm very excited!

I'm still debating between two colors. Here is the lighter gray (pewter basin):



Here is the darker (gothic suite):



And here are both next to each other:



Right now I'm leaning towards the lighter, but would appreciate anyone else's thoughts/opinions. Those of you that ordered the Silver Lake, which color did you choose?

Installation is about three weeks out which is, admittedly, a little longer than I'd like to wait. None of the other carpet stores could do any better though, so I'll just have to be patient.

I also picked up a black marble threshold and now need some advice on the best way to attach it to the concrete. I'm thinking that some thinset may be the best option but obviously I don't need very much of it. The threshold fits nice and snug between the sides of the jamb so I'm not really worried about it pulling away. Any reason why just some liquid nails wouldn't work?

Thanks for following along!
post #246 of 405
While my first impulse is usually to go darker since it is a theater I don't feel that way in this case. Based on the two samples you show I too am liking the lighter of the two samples. I was trying to go back and forth on your photos to get an impression how they would blend with your colors and I think the lighter of the two is the "right" choice given the two. It will be easier to keep clean as well as the darker the carpet the more it will show all kinds of stuff.

I like the pattern as well. Sorry my advise for the carpet store did not pan out for you. I guess if you don't check it out you'll never know.

Glad to hear that your exams are done. My son (a Junior) is currently knee deep in projects and finals as well. His last day is only a week away. They tend to go right up to the next to last day and then the last day is full of useless stuff, movies, games, and other time fillers.

Regards,

RTROSE
post #247 of 405
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RTROSE View Post

While my first impulse is usually to go darker since it is a theater I don't feel that way in this case. Based on the two samples you show I too am liking the lighter of the two samples. I was trying to go back and forth on your photos to get an impression how they would blend with your colors and I think the lighter of the two is the "right" choice given the two. It will be easier to keep clean as well as the darker the carpet the more it will show all kinds of stuff.

I like the pattern as well. Sorry my advise for the carpet store did not pan out for you. I guess if you don't check it out you'll never know.

Glad to hear that your exams are done. My son (a Junior) is currently knee deep in projects and finals as well. His last day is only a week away. They tend to go right up to the next to last day and then the last day is full of useless stuff, movies, games, and other time fillers.

Regards,

RTROSE

Thanks for your input RTROSE!

Yeah I'm having the same thoughts as you regarding the color. I like the lighter gray as well.

I spent quite a bit of time in some other carpet stores tonight, but just couldn't come up with something that I liked as much as the Silver Lake. Your recommendation for checking them out was excellent though and I encourage others to do the same. For my case, however, Lowes just happened to fit best.
post #248 of 405
I'd personally go darker. EC did an impressive demo years ago, at a local ht meet. Dark grey walls, dark grey ceiling, and a lighter colour carpet. He threw a black IKEA area rug in front of the screen. Very simple demo, very noticeable improvements in contrast ratio and more "POP" to the image.
post #249 of 405
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tedd View Post

I'd personally go darker. EC did an impressive demo years ago, at a local ht meet. Dark grey walls, dark grey ceiling, and a lighter colour carpet. He threw a black IKEA area rug in front of the screen. Very simple demo, very noticeable improvements in contrast ratio and more "POP" to the image.

Thanks Ted! That is a very good point about the darker color helping picture quality.
post #250 of 405
Thread Starter 
Well after talking with Big and Damelon about which color they chose in the Bacon Race, I'm now starting to lean towards the Gothic Suite. If you look at a picture of the bacon race, you'll see that the carpet looks like a dark gray with an even darker (almost black) checkerboard pattern. Damelon told me that the small sample doesnt really show how the pattern will look once it is spread out across the whole room. Once the light shines on the different textures it takes on that two toned look that I'm going for. That coupled with Ted's comment about possible improved picture quality is making me lean heavily towards the Gothic Suite.

I think in all this talk about carpet my question about attaching the marble threshold kind of got lost. Does anyone have any advice about this?

Quote:
Originally Posted by aaustin View Post

I also picked up a black marble threshold and now need some advice on the best way to attach it to the concrete. I'm thinking that some thinset may be the best option but obviously I don't need very much of it. The threshold fits nice and snug between the sides of the jamb so I'm not really worried about it pulling away. Any reason why just some liquid nails wouldn't work?
post #251 of 405
Liquid nails should work just fine. Maybe the "masonry" variety would be a good pick.
post #252 of 405
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by petew View Post

Liquid nails should work just fine. Maybe the "masonry" variety would be a good pick.

Thanks Pete! I will go with that then.
post #253 of 405
Thread Starter 
Whew!! It's been too long!

Well the musical was a massive success, but now it's time to get this theater wrapped up!

I was able to get a little done today after opening the pool. First I painted the light trims for the 3" cans on the ceiling black.



I popped them in and am very happy with how they blend in with the black ceiling.

Next I put the last coat of gray on the door and got it re-hung. I'd like it to be known that I hung the almost 150 pound door by myself. That was a very fun task.



I replaced the wimpy hinge screws with some 3" long ones that go all the way into the studs for extra strength. I was also very pleased with the fact that I didn't have to use wide throw hinges to compensate for the extra 1/2" added to the door. I had run a few tests with some scraps of drywall before adding the MDF to make sure it would close but I was still a little worried that it wouldn't work and I'd have to buy different hinges.

Next I need to add the door stops and weatherstripping.

After the door I did some touch up painting on the molding before.... duh, duh, duh.... hanging the projector!



Don't worry though! I had to get it in place so that I could determine the size screen that I would build. That doesn't mean I didn't watch about 20 minutes of a movie with no sound though. It actually looks pretty good projected on the black wall. I can't wait to see what it looks like on the actual screen.



I neglected to realize until hanging the projector that since the lens is not located in the middle the whole thing would not be centered in the hole. The perfectionist in me wants to see that projector centered, but I'm starting to get over it and know that it is more important to have the lens centered on the screen.

Speaking of screen size, that brings me to my next question for all of you aspect ratio experts.

The projected image that I have on the wall is 44 inches tall. Putting that in an online calculator gives me a 90 inch diagonal 16:9 image that should be 78 inches wide. My problem is that the image is about 81.5 inches wide. I did have to use some keystone correction to get all of the corners square, but I'm still confused about why my measurements don't add up to the correct 16:9 aspect ratio. Could it be distortion from how the projector is placed and moving it around a little will correct the issue? I guess what I'm trying to determine is whether I should build my screen to the true 16:9 dimensions or purposefully make it wider. Any thoughts?

So carpet should be installed either later this week or early next week. The LED strip lights are coming next week. I've got to finish up a little bit of touch up painting, build the screen, install the outlets, replace the 4-gang switch box with a 3-gang and install the dimmers, install the LED strips, get shelving put up in the equipment closet, and then connect and install all of the electronics and speakers.

I don't really like to set dates since then it's disappointing if you don't reach them, but right now I'm hoping to have opening night on Saturday, June 9. Buckle your seat belts people, because I'm planning on moving things along fast.



It's the final countdown!
post #254 of 405
It looks great, i get your "perfectionist" POV - but ultimately redoing that inlet isn't worth it. Not sure if someone has asked this up-thread, but do you have any concern with the projector over heating with no ventilation above the unit??

Oh, and your too young to be referencing 80's pop rock!! lol
post #255 of 405
Looking good! That is a pretty reasonable final punchlist so I don't think you will have any problem finishing by your date. I'm with you on the projector, would love to see the thing centered but the image comes first. Besides, if the box was offcenter then you would be stuck finding another offset projector if you ever decide to upgrade. I think the way you did it works best for the current setup and future upgradeability.

Not sure on the aspect ratio question but will be interested to hear others thoughts on it. I feel like I need to learn something new today.
post #256 of 405
Quote:
Originally Posted by dRwOOD73 View Post

It looks great, i get your "perfectionist" POV - but ultimately redoing that inlet isn't worth it. Not sure if someone has asked this up-thread, but do you have any concern with the projector over heating with no ventilation above the unit??

Oh, and your too young to be referencing 80's pop rock!! lol

80's pop rock must be making a comeback as this song was played at my son's 5th/6th grade orchestra concert last week. It wasn't nearly as good as their rendition of the Pirates of the Caribbean theme.
post #257 of 405
Quote:
Originally Posted by aaustin View Post

The projected image that I have on the wall is 44 inches tall. Putting that in an online calculator gives me a 90 inch diagonal 16:9 image that should be 78 inches wide. My problem is that the image is about 81.5 inches wide.

HDTV is 16:9 (16/9=1.78) so 44 inches tall is 78 inches wide (44x1.78)

That movie is 1.85:1 - so 44 inches tall gets you 81.4 inches wide. People never notice the difference before Blu-ray and projection, because movies in that ratio are cropped slightly for TV broadcast and on a lot of DVDs.
post #258 of 405
Quote:
I guess what I'm trying to determine is whether I should build my screen to the true 16:9 dimensions or purposefully make it wider. Any thoughts?

I have the Panny 4000 that auto-recognizes aspect ratio and auto-changes to pre-set settings for both (zoom, focus, etc). Don't know about your projector, but here's what I found from playing around with my projector and watching several movies.

I am going with the 2:35 wide screen as the screen size. I have it set so that 16:9 fills the top and bottom with black bars on the side. The bars do not bother me, so I don't think I'll even make masking for it. This makes so that 2:35 fills he entire screen and gives me the largest viewing area for MOST BRs. I ended up at about 102" diagonal at 2:35.

What I've noticed about this screen size that makes it REALLY awesome (and I haven't seen this mentioned anywhere else on the boards) is that the picture is generally larger than life. To me THAT is what gives you the "at the movies" experience.
post #259 of 405
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dRwOOD73 View Post

It looks great, i get your "perfectionist" POV - but ultimately redoing that inlet isn't worth it. Not sure if someone has asked this up-thread, but do you have any concern with the projector over heating with no ventilation above the unit??

Oh, and your too young to be referencing 80's pop rock!! lol

Thanks!! I originally had some concerns with ventilation in the box, but after talking with some other forum members (Ted White and BIGmouthinDC) I decided to give it a shot and hope for the best. The exhaust for the projector is out the front so it isn't filling the box up with hot air. I had it on for about an hour last night and didn't notice any significant temperature increases in the box. I'll run some tests with a thermometer a little later once I have the screen up but at this point I don't see it being a problem.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vanice View Post

Looking good! That is a pretty reasonable final punchlist so I don't think you will have any problem finishing by your date. I'm with you on the projector, would love to see the thing centered but the image comes first. Besides, if the box was offcenter then you would be stuck finding another offset projector if you ever decide to upgrade. I think the way you did it works best for the current setup and future upgradeability.

Not sure on the aspect ratio question but will be interested to hear others thoughts on it. I feel like I need to learn something new today.

Thanks vanice! I agree with you on the projector placement. Image quality comes first and you make a very good point about allowing for future upgrades later.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spaceman View Post

80's pop rock must be making a comeback as this song was played at my son's 5th/6th grade orchestra concert last week. It wasn't nearly as good as their rendition of the Pirates of the Caribbean theme.

I guess it is coming back then! I thought that it captured the moment best and was a nice way to end the post and get myself psyched up for the finish line.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HopefulFred View Post

HDTV is 16:9 (16/9=1.78) so 44 inches tall is 78 inches wide (44x1.78)

That movie is 1.85:1 - so 44 inches tall gets you 81.4 inches wide. People never notice the difference before Blu-ray and projection, because movies in that ratio are cropped slightly for TV broadcast and on a lot of DVDs.

Thanks Fred! I checked the case for "Avatar" and it says that the movie is in 1.78:1. Just to be sure I threw in "Modern Family" on DVD since I know that that is 1.78:1. I got the same result as "Avatar" (44 inches tall and about 81.5 inches wide). Then I tried "Mall Cop" which is 1.85:1. The image was a little bit shorter at about 42.5 inches tall. In addition to this I selected 16:9 on the projector remote to force it to that aspect ratio.

So it seems that the projector is throwing a 16:9 image, but the dimensions don't line up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tlogan6797 View Post

I have the Panny 4000 that auto-recognizes aspect ratio and auto-changes to pre-set settings for both (zoom, focus, etc). Don't know about your projector, but here's what I found from playing around with my projector and watching several movies.

I am going with the 2:35 wide screen as the screen size. I have it set so that 16:9 fills the top and bottom with black bars on the side. The bars do not bother me, so I don't think I'll even make masking for it. This makes so that 2:35 fills he entire screen and gives me the largest viewing area for MOST BRs. I ended up at about 102" diagonal at 2:35.

What I've noticed about this screen size that makes it REALLY awesome (and I haven't seen this mentioned anywhere else on the boards) is that the picture is generally larger than life. To me THAT is what gives you the "at the movies" experience.

Thanks Tom! A 2.35:1 screen would be cool, but unfortunately my projector (Optoma HD20) doesn't allow for that. I bought the projector to use at my old house before I became a member of this forum and learned so much. Don't get me wrong, it throws a beautiful image, but if I had known more then I would have spent a little more money for some other features (lens shift, better zoom, etc.). Oh well I guess. I can always upgrade someday.
post #260 of 405
Quote:
Originally Posted by aaustin View Post

So it seems that the projector is throwing a 16:9 image, but the dimensions don't line up.

My bad - if Modern Family shows up 44 inches tall and 81.5 inches wide, something is goofy.

I wonder what the keystone correction is doing. Ideally, if the projector is not centered on the screen (both up and down and left to right) lens shift is the feature you want to use to get it centered and square - you probably knew that already, and resorted to aiming the projector to the screen (pivoting) and then using the keystone correction to square the image back up, because the HD20 doesn't have a lens shift function. People always say keystone should be the last resort. I always assumed that poor scaling was the reason, but maybe geometry problems are also part of the reason.

Just thinking out loud - since the panel is 16:9, and the image source is too, the only way the processor can make the image fit when it's not "normal" to the screen, optically speaking, is to shorten one or more dimensions - it can't get larger, as there is no more panel to get larger into... so maybe depending on the nature of the keystone correction applied (or maybe in all cases?) the image ends up less tall - optically distorted. Is it possible to adjust the mount or mounting location to avoid needed keystone correction? That would be my recommendation.
post #261 of 405
Thread Starter 
Good point about the keystone correction shortening the image height Fred. After thinking about it more I'm almost positive that that is the problem.

I know that keystone correction should be used as a last resort, but unfortunately in my situation it is unavoidable due to the fact that the only way to eliminate it would be to mount the projector higher. That is impossible due to the fact that the soffit is directly above the projector.

At this point I guess I'll build the screen 81.5 inches wide to make the most of the projected image even though it won't be the perfect aspect ratio. If I want to make it the true 78" I could always move the screen border in to mask it off. In this case I think it is definitely better to build the screen bigger and then mask it rather than have it be too small.
post #262 of 405
Quote:
Originally Posted by aaustin View Post

... the only way to eliminate [the keystoning] would be to mount the projector higher.

Maybe I'm having a brain fade here, but intuitively it would seem that lowering the projector would reduce keystoning. What am I missing here?
post #263 of 405
That depends on where the screen is...

Quoted from projectorcentral.com:
"Since the projector has a fixed throw angle, you will also need to plan for the offset built into the lensing; this offset will dictate your screen's position relative to the projector. The HD20 has a throw angle offset of 15%, meaning that the bottom edge of the projected image will appear 15% of the image's height above the centerline of the lens (or 15% below the centerline if ceiling mounted). For example, with a 100" diagonal image, the bottom edge will appear 7.3" above the lens's centerline."

In this case, a 44 inch image height, ceiling mounted, should appear with the top of the image 15% of 44 inches (or 6.6 inches) below the center of the lens. This is a fixed interval for this image size: either the image or the projector would need to move to avoid keystone correction.
post #264 of 405
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by HopefulFred View Post

That depends on where the screen is...

Quoted from projectorcentral.com:
"Since the projector has a fixed throw angle, you will also need to plan for the offset built into the lensing; this offset will dictate your screen's position relative to the projector. The HD20 has a throw angle offset of 15%, meaning that the bottom edge of the projected image will appear 15% of the image's height above the centerline of the lens (or 15% below the centerline if ceiling mounted). For example, with a 100" diagonal image, the bottom edge will appear 7.3" above the lens's centerline."

In this case, a 44 inch image height, ceiling mounted, should appear with the top of the image 15% of 44 inches (or 6.6 inches) below the center of the lens. This is a fixed interval for this image size: either the image or the projector would need to move to avoid keystone correction.

Exactly Fred. You beat me to it.

In my case that would put the projected image way too low on the wall, so as a result I have to tilt the projector up, which means I have to fix the image with keystone correction.
post #265 of 405
If you know how many degrees you angled the projector up, you might consider angling the screen down (bringing the top away from the wall) to form the same angle relative to the wall. As long as the projector is normal to the screen, everything comes out square. I don't know if that would be acceptable, but it would correct the keystoning.
post #266 of 405
OK, I get it. My last projector was a JVC RS-1, which had manual lens shift, so this wasn't a problem for that installation.
post #267 of 405
Unfortunately as aaustin is finding out when you employ a PJ without lens shift you need to design around it's specs. Not a big deal if you know this going in, but can be a deal breaker if you can't get want you want out of it due to room limitations.

Sounds like you are getting good advise from the "experts" here, so I'll not advise on what has already been advised on, however I'll chime in on the fact that for your next "upgrade" in projectors look to one that has lens shift. I'll only say that once you have used a PJ that has this feature you won't soon want to turn back.

Keystoning to "fix" your image is a last resort in my opinion, however if that is what you have to do, then do it. In my experience with business PJ's you really don't see a noticeable difference in image quality until you start getting close to the extreme limits of the keystone. I doubt that anybody but you would notice anyway.

The room is looking good, glad to hear that you had the willpower to stop watching the movie after 20mins. I had the PJ hung for quite a while before I had speakers, and I can tell you I spent my fair share of time watching "silent" movies.

Keep it up my friend the goal is within reach and you can do it. As for 80's rock making a comeback, my 17 year old will come to me and ask if I have heard this (plays a classic rock song from his iPod) yup they were popular when I was in high school I say. They rock he says, I know is my usual reply.

Rock on!

Regards,

RTROSE
post #268 of 405
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by HopefulFred View Post

If you know how many degrees you angled the projector up, you might consider angling the screen down (bringing the top away from the wall) to form the same angle relative to the wall. As long as the projector is normal to the screen, everything comes out square. I don't know if that would be acceptable, but it would correct the keystoning.

Interesting idea Fred. I'd think that that would have some negative impact on the viewing experience if the screen was tilted too much, but I'll have to look into it a little more and determine just how much I'd have to angle it. I'll put it on the list of things to think about.
post #269 of 405
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RTROSE View Post

Unfortunately as aaustin is finding out when you employ a PJ without lens shift you need to design around it's specs. Not a big deal if you know this going in, but can be a deal breaker if you can't get want you want out of it due to room limitations.

Sounds like you are getting good advise from the "experts" here, so I'll not advise on what has already been advised on, however I'll chime in on the fact that for your next "upgrade" in projectors look to one that has lens shift. I'll only say that once you have used a PJ that has this feature you won't soon want to turn back.

Keystoning to "fix" your image is a last resort in my opinion, however if that is what you have to do, then do it. In my experience with business PJ's you really don't see a noticeable difference in image quality until you start getting close to the extreme limits of the keystone. I doubt that anybody but you would notice anyway.

The room is looking good, glad to hear that you had the willpower to stop watching the movie after 20mins. I had the PJ hung for quite a while before I had speakers, and I can tell you I spent my fair share of time watching "silent" movies.

Keep it up my friend the goal is within reach and you can do it. As for 80's rock making a comeback, my 17 year old will come to me and ask if I have heard this (plays a classic rock song from his iPod) yup they were popular when I was in high school I say. They rock he says, I know is my usual reply.

Rock on!

Regards,

RTROSE

Thanks for stopping by RTROSE!

I completely agree with you on how useful lens shift is, but I'll just have to live with what I have for now. There's no way that a new projector purchase will be made after the money that went into the room. I'd have no chance arguing that one.

Honestly it doesn't look that bad and if I didn't measure it I probably never would have noticed the slight change in the aspect ratio. I will press forward with building the screen to the dimensions of the projected image as it is. Even on the black wall I'm thrilled with how it looks, so I'm sure that it will be very adequate for the time being with the actual screen in place.
post #270 of 405
Thread Starter 
Today I finished up all of the touch up painting on the trim. I insisted on going through and painting the top edge of the baseboards and chair rail with a small artists brush. It took quite a bit of time but looks perfect now. My mom came in at one point and found me laying on the ground meticulously painting the baseboards and said something along the lines of "I doubt anyone will notice that small bit." I just laughed and kept painting.

-perfectionist-
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