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Sony HMZ-T1 HMD Owner's dedicated thread - Page 14

post #391 of 3364
Quote:
Originally Posted by CloudVII View Post

I thought DJ88 had a very good explanation of 3D a few pages back, but now I'm confuse as to how one display can appear to have more "pop" than another.

Can anyone help me undo my confusion

As I said in a previous post, I am sure that the reason for the "lack of pop" is nothing to do with the HMZ-T1 lacking depth, but due to the fact that:
  1. You do not have the same visual cues for 3D when you are viewing it in an isolated environment rather than looking at a TV in your living room.
  2. The 3D is much more natural with the HMZ-T1 than any other 3D solution, particularly active shutter glasses.

Most people tend to agree that passive 3D glasses have less "pop" than active shutter systems, even though crosstalk is lower and the images for each eye are displayed simultaneously rather than alternately.

The HMZ-T1 eliminates crosstalk entirely, shows full resolution images in both eyes (rather than the interlaced images of passive 3DTVs) and the screens are updated progressively rather than scanned. (well LCDs scan the image, which is probably what most people are comparing this to)

I don't think this is a coincidence at all.

When you are looking through active shutter glasses, your view is dimmed, and your eyes do not receive an image at the same timeone eye is blacked out, the other gets an image, and they swap at 120/240Hz.

This works to trick your brain into believing that it's seeing 3D, but because it is a completely unnatural way of doing so, I believe it also makes things stand out far more than it does with passive solutions.

It's not that the 3D depth is any better, but the fact that the image is unnaturally three dimensional stands out.


In the real world, nothing pops out at you. You accept the world for what it is, and it is naturally three dimensional. Passive 3D glasses, and now the HMZ-T1, recreate that experience far better than active shutter glasses do.

The depth is the same, but you perceive it to be lower, because it is now a completely natural looking image, rather than "fake" 3D that makes itself known.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CloudVII View Post

Sorry for the multiple posts, but for anyone who's heard great things about the TV series "Firefly" but have not had the chance to watch it (like me...which I will be watching on the HMD when it arrives ), Amazon is selling the complete series on blu-ray for $19.

Oh boy are you in for a treat. I don't normally like Joss Whedon's stuff, but Firefly is something special indeed. What a shame that they decided to air it out of order, which basically killed the show off before it had a chance.
post #392 of 3364
Quote:
Originally Posted by jussi67 View Post

I think there is quite a many people who have planned to buy these from somewhere else they live themselves. So I`m suprised anybody haven't answered to my question. It would be nice for pricing too, if instead of 900 you could get it for 550 or what do you think guys, you, who live in Europe? I think my question is very relevant and really hope that somebody maybe could give us some information. My question was: Because japanese 120V 50/60hz unit worked fine in european 230V / 50Hz power outlet could it be possible that despite of different models they all have the same autoadjustable 100-240V 50/60hz power supply?

Many thanks for advises,

JJ

it says 110v only on the us model.. it maybe 240 also but id invest in a power converter. for the small price its worth it not going pop.
post #393 of 3364
Quote:
Originally Posted by EastyUK View Post

it says 110v only on the us model.. it maybe 240 also but id invest in a power converter. for the small price its worth it not going pop.

It's not much of an issue to run a stepdown converter for something like the HMZ-T1 either, as it's only drawing 15W or so.
post #394 of 3364
Quote:
Originally Posted by evnow View Post

I don't think this is correct.

In an Imax theatre while the screen is large & the distance large - the objects are also equally large. So a knife that comes out 5' when watching from 10' away will seem to come out 20' when watching on IMAX 40' away - as long as the FOV is the same.

Since FOV of HMZ is larger than many watching 3D at home - it should give a better immersive effect than small TVs at home (equivalent to watching a 10' wide screen from 10' at home).

But that isn't the case in terms of the end result.

Sitting 4 feet away from my TV so that I cannot see the edges of it, does not result in the same 3D experience as an IMAX cinema. I believe this is because regardless of how big the screen is, its about the "real space" that the image can occupy. There is perhaps a psychological effect of having a big image, in a big room, with a big space that cannot be recreated just by sitting close up to a television so you get the same FOV. Understanding how this fits with the glasses is very complex because I am not sure we totally understand the "real" focus distance. 750" at 20 metres, or 150" at 10 feet may occupy the same FOV but they are NOT the same focus distance. Yet both of these metrics/specs have been stated in relation to this HMZ-T1. In the "real" world you know whether something is 750" at 20 metres, or 150" at 10 feet because you have real world objects to relate it to as well the actual focus distance.
post #395 of 3364
Is anyone playing games in 3d?

i just launched Skyrim and its amazingly immersible in 2d.. so atmospheric over playing on the 30" dell I have or the 100" projector.

i hada quick play with nvidia stereo and couldn't get it to see the device.. Do I need nvidia 3d tv play or what ever it is called? I read on the nvidia site they are releasing an update for things.. but I dont know much about it.

Cheers,

Brian
post #396 of 3364
Quote:
Originally Posted by EastyUK View Post

Is anyone playing games in 3d?

i just launched Skyrim and its amazingly immersible in 2d.. so atmospheric over playing on the 30" dell I have or the 100" projector.

i hada quick play with nvidia stereo and couldn't get it to see the device.. Do I need nvidia 3d tv play or what ever it is called? I read on the nvidia site they are releasing an update for things.. but I dont know much about it.

Cheers,

Brian

They just released it (Link). It does require 3DTV Play to work ($40), but if you have the 3D Vision kit (shutterglasses+IR emitter) you can get the software for free.

I've been playing on a 19" / 110" setup, started on the weekend. At first I attempted to infiltrate a discovered cave...after dying many times and gaining a few levels in the attempt, I had to cut short the spelunking and try something more in tune with a fledgling ranger---hunting. I've got the actor distance maxed out, so it's easy to spot potential targets on the plains of Whiterun. The practice at stealth and archery is really paying off. I'm glad to see enemies that can kill me in a few swipes...makes leveling up far more worthwhile.

I did get a chance to see a Giant send a bandit into the stratosphere...quite literally. He never came back down...at least...not in this province.
post #397 of 3364
Quote:
Originally Posted by evnow View Post

Again - like many of the 3D critics - you are confusing issues.

A good 3D display should handle both +ve & -ve parallax. Just like a good stereo should be able to place objects on the sound stage both behind and infront of the speaker plane.

How that -ve parallax is used, is a different question. While cheap "pop" out thrills are one way to use it - the other way is to make the experiance truly immersive - like I said earlier - showing sand on the beach or water in the sea stretch from right before your eyes until the horizon. In real life you don't have emptyness all around you for 20 ft and then stuff suddenly appears.

I'm not confusing the issues. I am pointing out the singular obsession with one aspect of 3D, negative parallax, and the device being criticized based on that alone.

This is especially problematic when that vast majority of source material uses positive parallax. Of course there is no "pop," since your game (or whatever) doesn't provide it by design.

What you're talking about in terms of what you call "true immersion" is something that I don't think is physically possible when there is a screen involved. As research shows, the negative parallax causes fatigue, and can't be used extensively. And I actually find the "through a window" effect highly immersive and adds greatly to the theatrical and game experience. And the HMZ-T1 produces this effect better than any device or theater I've ever seen.

-Pie
post #398 of 3364
For the Canadians out there:

Good afternoon Bart,

Regarding your order CW111, while we do have only limited stock, there is also a Global delay in the release and availability (with a ship date all depending on which retailer the aforementioned personal 3D Viewer was pre-ordered from).

Since market demands for certain products are greater in certain countries, as opposed to others, these countries will naturally receive certain products before others. This would explain why certain countries are already shipping stock. We have some units in stock which we are preparing for shipment. We can't release them yet because we received them a slightly earlier than their anticipated ship date which was shared with our Sony Stores and authorized dealers. By shipping them earlier, we'd be unfairly breaking our contracts with them.

Once your Personal 3D Viewer has been released to Purolator, we will promptly send you an email with tracking information included. Our first batch of Personal 3D Viewers, ordered online at www.store.sony.ca, are slated to be shipped as of the 25th of November as mentioned to you earlier.

Thank you for your comments and your patience in this matter.

Sony of Canada Ltd.

Yeah, so they have stock but won't ship before the 25th, while every other country gets them. So stupid.

email sony at feedback@sony.ca
post #399 of 3364
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonStatt View Post

Sitting 4 feet away from my TV so that I cannot see the edges of it, does not result in the same 3D experience as an IMAX cinema. I believe this is because regardless of how big the screen is, its about the "real space" that the image can occupy. There is perhaps a psychological effect of having a big image, in a big room, with a big space that cannot be recreated just by sitting close up to a television so you get the same FOV.

I think Jon is on to something. What might be missing in the theory are real-space landmarks i.e. In the theater it would be seats and at home it would be furniture. I think the brain needs these references to interpret the illusion of an object coming out of the screen. It is impossible for the HMZ to have "real-space" and objects in that space @ real distances to-relate-too for the brain to identify and create the illusion of extreme Pop.

Paul
post #400 of 3364
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul H View Post

Re: The 3D setting is defaulted @ 15% and must be changed manually to "100% Max"


Can you provide a source to how you know this?

Thanks

It shows you what it's set at in the nVidia 3D control panel. Default is 15.
post #401 of 3364
Quote:
Originally Posted by almostinsane View Post

It shows you what it's set at in the nVidia 3D control panel. Default is 15.


conan48 said "That setting only effect games BTW, and does nothing for movies."

Then I asked conan48:

Can you provide a source to how you know this?
post #402 of 3364
@Chronoptimist
Thanks for explaining that again
It seems like once we go beyond the typical 3D issues with most displays (dimming, cross-talk, etc.) there is a subjective component to what makes a good 3D presentation. Some prefer pop > depth, others depth > pop, and there are those who prefer equal pop and depth.

As for "Firefly", are there any benefits to watching "Serenity" before "Firefly" or vice versa? I've purposefully kept myself away from these because my younger self thought they were too much of a rip from "Outlaw Star"...but I'm ready to move on and be shown the error of my ways

-----

On a slightly different note, anyone here have experience with "head-tracking 3D"? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8SDGG9HhbgQ
post #403 of 3364
Quote:
Originally Posted by CloudVII View Post

@Chronoptimist
Thanks for explaining that again
It seems like once we go beyond the typical 3D issues with most displays (dimming, cross-talk, etc.) there is a subjective component to what makes a good 3D presentation. Some prefer pop > depth, others depth > pop, and there are those who prefer equal pop and depth.

It shouldn't be that there's less depth/pop to the 3D with the HMZ-T1, it's just that it doesn't make itself known as much as other 3D systems because it looks natural rather than unnaturally 3D.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CloudVII View Post

As for "Firefly", are there any benefits to watching "Serenity" before "Firefly" or vice versa? I've purposefully kept myself away from these because my younger self thought they were too much of a rip from "Outlaw Star"...but I'm ready to move on and be shown the error of my ways

I would watch the series first. The film changes some of the backstory, in an effort to make it more enjoyable as a film (presumably they were hoping it would be popular enough that they could get the show up and running again) and I didn't think it was as enjoyable as the show in general.

I actually saw Serenity first, which put me off watching Firefly, but I decided to give it a try when it came out on Blu-ray, loved it, and did enjoy the film a bit more when I knew more of the backstory, but I still don't rate it that highly.
post #404 of 3364
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul H View Post

conan48 said "That setting only effect games BTW, and does nothing for movies."

Then I asked conan48:

Can you provide a source to how you know this?

Easy way to check that out Paul, drop the depth to 0 and turn a movie on and see if its still 3d.



Dave
post #405 of 3364
I have wedensday down as the date for mines, thats in the uk.

Anybody in the uk recievede theirs yet?


Dave
post #406 of 3364
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsk1210 View Post

I have wedensday down as the date for mines, thats in the uk.

Anybody in the uk recievede theirs yet?


Dave

Who did you buy from?
post #407 of 3364
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsk1210 View Post

I have wedensday down as the date for mines, thats in the uk.

Anybody in the uk recievede theirs yet?


Dave

dsk1210.....where did you order from in the UK to be given a solid date this year?
post #408 of 3364
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimBob1971 View Post

Who did you buy from?


Sony store Edinburgh

I was looking at the computer while he was using it and it had arrival date of wed, he said aberdeen has the only demo display at the moment, i think the thinking behind that is the oil riggers might find this a very handy thing for when on the rigs.

I did pre-order a while ago though, and was told i had one of the 250 coming into the uk.

Dave
post #409 of 3364
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsk1210 View Post

Sony store Edinburgh

I was looking at the computer while he was using it and it had arrival date of wed, he said aberdeen has the only demo display at the moment, i think the thinking behind that is the oil riggers might find this a very handy thing for when on the rigs.

I did pre-order a while ago though, and was told i had one of the 250 coming into the uk.

Dave

Interesting. It seems that Sony online orders didn't exceed the 250-40 limit then (If we are to believe that Sony online orders take precedence). When did you order? I know JonStatt ordered some time ago and he is still waiting.
post #410 of 3364
words cannot express how jealous I am of you then dsk

I take it the price was £800 from them at that time too?
post #411 of 3364
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsk1210 View Post

Sony store Edinburgh

I was looking at the computer while he was using it and it had arrival date of wed, he said aberdeen has the only demo display at the moment, i think the thinking behind that is the oil riggers might find this a very handy thing for when on the rigs.

I did pre-order a while ago though, and was told i had one of the 250 coming into the uk.

Dave

Sony HQ have told me that 100 units arrive on the 6th of December, and 150 on the 13th of December. A special limited stock of 40 units arrives this week for those who ordered from Harrods only. Unless Sony Edinburgh also had some special arrangement I had not uncovered, or unless Sony HQ are giving me wrong information, I don't think you will get it for some time yet. It could well be the information I had was wrong, but the fact they had specific unit counts, makes it sound plausible.
post #412 of 3364
I think I'm going to cave in and preorder it from sony UK rather than Stoneaudio with me knowing nothing about that companies reliability.

Stoneaudio did say it would be a UK model, but part of me still has doubts.....£660 (+ about £8 postage) from stone audio, vs £799 from Sony.

Anyone point me in the direction of how I can get these £50 Sony discounts from their store, if they're still available?
post #413 of 3364
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonStatt View Post

Sony HQ have told me that 100 units arrive on the 6th of December, and 150 on the 13th of December. A special limited stock of 40 units arrives this week for those who ordered from Harrods only. Unless Sony Edinburgh also had some special arrangement I had not uncovered, or unless Sony HQ are giving me wrong information, I don't think you will get it for some time yet. It could well be the information I had was wrong, but the fact they had specific unit counts, makes it sound plausible.


Well i do hope you are wrong Jon, i did see the invoice for the store myself today, he did mention the 40 orders for harrods, the fact that aberdeen has the only display in Scotland at the moment, and i was told last week about the 250 coming into the uk, mine and your numbers seem to match, but certainly not the dates.

Price was £800 when ordered, has it changed ?

I suppose i will find out out on wed, i will post on here and keep you up to date, would be weird if i am the first in the uk with the HMD.


Dave
post #414 of 3364
I wonder what the odds of John Lewis selling these, with their free added 2/5 yr warranties
post #415 of 3364
I work for a Sony dealer and we've received a message that we're to expect shipment of the HMZ sometime in the 4th quarter, meaning January thru March. Guess there's a bit of a wait on these things lol.
post #416 of 3364
I did notice on the other Thread that somebody has got one in Denmark, so hopefully thats the start of the european pre-order rollout.

Duden from Denamrk, he wants to send it back.


Dave
post #417 of 3364
Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiteRabbit2004 View Post

I work for a Sony dealer and we've received a message that we're to expect shipment of the HMZ sometime in the 4th quarter, meaning January thru March. Guess there's a bit of a wait on these things lol.

oh joy - upto 4 months from now - ouchy
post #418 of 3364
Quote:
Originally Posted by Midnight Tboy View Post

I wonder what the odds of John Lewis selling these, with their free added 2/5 yr warranties

Next to none I'm afraid, at least for the immediate future.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dsk1210 View Post

I suppose i will find out out on wed, i will post on here and keep you up to date, would be weird if i am the first in the uk with the HMD.

I hate to be a pessimist, but the dates have changed so many times over the last few weeks...... Can you check your order on Sony online? I re-read your post and it sounds like you were in the shop today which does indeed sound more promising!


Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiteRabbit2004 View Post

I work for a Sony dealer and we've received a message that we're to expect shipment of the HMZ sometime in the 4th quarter, meaning January thru March. Guess there's a bit of a wait on these things lol.

Isn't that the first quarter, or is that too logical?
post #419 of 3364
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsk1210 View Post

Well i do hope you are wrong Jon, i did see the invoice for the store myself today, he did mention the 40 orders for harrods, the fact that aberdeen has the only display in Scotland at the moment, and i was told last week about the 250 coming into the uk, mine and your numbers seem to match, but certainly not the dates.

Price was £800 when ordered, has it changed ?

I suppose i will find out out on wed, i will post on here and keep you up to date, would be weird if i am the first in the uk with the HMD.


Dave

I really hope I am wrong too Dave...believe me!! I pre-ordered on the 19th of October by the way.

The price is still the same but someone managed to blag a 50 pound discount by quoting the Stone Audio price to a Sony Centre.

Actually Germany has already had theirs too. I known Conan keeps complaining about Canada, but if the dates I found were correct, it firmly puts UK in last place for delivery. This is not the first time that the procurement centre at Sony UK have been shockingly poor in ensuring priority stock for new product releases.
post #420 of 3364
I'm surprised they didn't release more to the UK initially to milk it for all its worth first, for all us limeys willing to part with the equivalent of what is $1250-1300 for it. Once the excitement wears off later down the line we'll be looking for more discounts on the rrp
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