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Official Power Sound Audio Thread - Page 12

post #331 of 9863
Quote:
Originally Posted by joffer View Post

what's an example of a receiver that will do Aud EQ on dual subs separately? thx

As Ray mentions Multi Eq xt32 works well with one or more subs but to get all possible benefits from Audyssey ( with two subs) also look for receivers / processors that include Sub EQ HT.

http://www.audyssey.com/audio-technology/sub-eq-ht

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio
post #332 of 9863
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Vodhanel View Post

As Ray mentions Multi Eq xt32 works well with one or more subs but to get all possible benefits from Audyssey ( with two subs) also look for receivers / processors that include Sub EQ HT.
http://www.audyssey.com/audio-technology/sub-eq-ht
Tom V.
Power Sound Audio

thanks for the reply Tom. I do have a receiver that has Multi Eq xt32. I'm looking at a sub upgrade and considering dual XV15s. I may PM you for some advice.
post #333 of 9863
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Vodhanel View Post

As Ray mentions Multi Eq xt32 works well with one or more subs but to get all possible benefits from Audyssey ( with two subs) also look for receivers / processors that include Sub EQ HT.
http://www.audyssey.com/audio-technology/sub-eq-ht
Tom V.
Power Sound Audio

It's my understading that the way audyssey does dual sub eq is to have a seperate measurement for distance and gain for each sub, but to apply one eq correction curve for both subs. It's not a true dual sub eq. I'm not a subwoofer expert, so I don't really know how much of a difference each sub having it's own correction curve would make. Just thought I would throw this out there for those who didn't know.
post #334 of 9863
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Vodhanel View Post

Second, we do have a few B-stocks we will be putting on the webpage soon(10% discount). We've gotten a couple review subs back, a couple shipping damage (very small nicks that we will provide pictures on request) and we have 1 or 2 with very minor blemishes in the finish(Again, pictures will be provided on request). I think we have 2 XS15, 2 XV15, and 1 XV30. All perform 100%.
Tom V.
Power Sound Audio

I'm really trying not to buy a new sub since I don't actually need one, but you keep making it more and more difficult for me. 10% off for something functionally new is hard to pass up.
post #335 of 9863
Quote:
Originally Posted by KidHorn View Post

It's my understading that the way audyssey does dual sub eq is to have a seperate measurement for distance and gain for each sub, but to apply one eq correction curve for both subs. It's not a true dual sub eq. I'm not a subwoofer expert, so I don't really know how much of a difference each sub having it's own correction curve would make. Just thought I would throw this out there for those who didn't know.

I don't think you would want to eq them separately because then when you play them together the sum of both subs may not be flat. I think that is why the summed bass is what is eq'd.
post #336 of 9863
Quote:
Originally Posted by raynist View Post

I don't think you would want to eq them separately because then when you play them together the sum of both subs may not be flat. I think that is why the summed bass is what is eq'd.

From a strictly mathmatical point of view, if you eq both subs so they produce a flat curve (I know this is impossible in the real world), then wouldn't the combined output have to also be flat?
post #337 of 9863
I am not sure. Once you have them both on they may interact with each other in a way that would not produce a flat response. I am purely speculating here and don't really know.
post #338 of 9863
Just thought I would chime in here. You want them eq'd together such as with sub eq ht.

Here are measurements from Archaea's Kansas City Blind Subwoofer Shootout 2012 . You can see the dual subs that were run of one output have the best freq response. Those were the green line mfw-15's. The other duals were run off two outputs that set distances and eq'd separately on that model of receiver.

http://i1191.photobucket.com/albums/z472/jvonengeln/2012%20Kansas%20City%20Blind%20Subwoofer%20Meet/overalloverlayoffrequencyresponsegraphswithnames.jpg

Mark Seaton has posted on it before, I can't find it right now though.

Also can read about the problems found here.

http://www.audioholics.com/tweaks/get-good-bass/multiple-subwoofer-setup-calibration-1/multiple-subwoofer-setup-listening-and-adjusting

We aren't worried about how they perform independent from each other, unless you don't plan on using them at the same time. However, different delay (distance settings in receiver or delay from separate eq device) between the two can be of benefit with how they play combined at listening position.

Addition: I am also a believer of gain matching same subs so they run out of steam at same time vs. level matching.
Edited by Luke Kamp - 11/1/12 at 10:27pm
post #339 of 9863
Quote:
Originally Posted by Luke Kamp View Post

Just thought I would chime in here. You want them eq'd together such as with sub eq ht.
Here are measurements from Archaea's Kansas City Blind Subwoofer Shootout 2012 . You can see the dual subs that were run of one output have the best freq response. Those were the green line mfw-15's. The other duals were run off two outputs that set distances and eq'd separately on that model of receiver.
http://i1191.photobucket.com/albums/z472/jvonengeln/2012%20Kansas%20City%20Blind%20Subwoofer%20Meet/overalloverlayoffrequencyresponsegraphswithnames.jpg
Mark Seaton has posted on it before, I can't find it right now though.
Also can read about the problems found here.
http://www.audioholics.com/tweaks/get-good-bass/multiple-subwoofer-setup-calibration-1/multiple-subwoofer-setup-listening-and-adjusting
We aren't worried about how they perform independent from each other, unless you don't plan on using them at the same time. However, different delay (distance settings in receiver or delay from separate eq device) between the two can be of benefit with how they play combined at listening position.
Addition: I am also a believer of gain matching same subs so they run out of steam at same time vs. level matching.

Interesting read. I've been using both preouts on my AVR rather than just 1 as the article was stating to do. I am using two different subs also though.
Edited by pretsam - 11/2/12 at 12:52am
post #340 of 9863
Quote:
Originally Posted by KidHorn View Post

From a strictly mathmatical point of view, if you eq both subs so they produce a flat curve (I know this is impossible in the real world), then wouldn't the combined output have to also be flat?

No, because the interaction between can still create destructive interference when both are played. Phase/distance can still create issues when both are used resulting in an uneven FR, even if both are flat by themselves.

Here is a nice page explaining the physics a bit more thoroughly.
post #341 of 9863
post #342 of 9863
Quote:
Originally Posted by KidHorn View Post

I'm really trying not to buy a new sub since I don't actually need one, but you keep making it more and more difficult for me. 10% off for something functionally new is hard to pass up.

Make that one XV-15 now available from the outlet. Took the leap of faith today after several weeks of searching! Was on the fence with a SVS PB-12, and the XV-15. SVS was going to charge me an additional $46.00 in sales tax because they have "established parts of their company in Michigan." I figured the XV-15 was the better deal all around, especially with the 10% off. I am somewhat of a newbie anyway coming from a JBL venue series Sub 12... So I figure it is a win win either way. Had several back and forth emails with Tom and am pretty excited. Shipped same day, can't beat that! Now, am a little worried about the wife freaking out when she sees the monster box delivered wink.gif
post #343 of 9863
Quote:
Originally Posted by walke108 View Post

Make that one XV-15 now available from the outlet. Took the leap of faith today after several weeks of searching! Was on the fence with a SVS PB-12, and the XV-15. SVS was going to charge me an additional $46.00 in sales tax because they have "established parts of their company in Michigan." I figured the XV-15 was the better deal all around, especially with the 10% off. I am somewhat of a newbie anyway coming from a JBL venue series Sub 12... So I figure it is a win win either way. Had several back and forth emails with Tom and am pretty excited. Shipped same day, can't beat that! Now, am a little worried about the wife freaking out when she sees the monster box delivered wink.gif

Make that zero left smile.gif LOL I ordered one a few minutes ago as well and also had a few emails back and forth with Tom - he couldn't have been any more helpful. Makes me feel great knowing the level of service that is available in the event that something goes wrong. I'm also wondering how my wife will react when she sees it arrive... Can't wait!

- Brad
post #344 of 9863
PSA's Customer Service is TOP notch! Tom emailed me within minutes with a response. His company and products look very good, congrats!
post #345 of 9863
So I'd like to get a few opinions on a pair of XS15's. In a strictly home theater application how would dual XS15's stack up againsts a pair of SVS PB12-NSD's? I was going to go with the SVS subs but I really like the design of the new PSA XS15. I would go with a pair of XV15's but they are just too tall. My theater room is 2000cubic/ft and has a 6ft wide opening into a little 10x10ft area.
post #346 of 9863
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLaw612 View Post

Make that zero left smile.gif LOL I ordered one a few minutes ago as well and also had a few emails back and forth with Tom - he couldn't have been any more helpful. Makes me feel great knowing the level of service that is available in the event that something goes wrong. I'm also wondering how my wife will react when she sees it arrive... Can't wait!
- Brad

Well I guess we will be able to compare notes! Good luck with the wife...I have been trying to manage her expectations ahead of time! Never hurts to let them make a big purchase as well smile.gif Good luck with your XV-15 and let me know how you like it! Mine should arrive on Tuesday. The FedEx guy is going to hate me because I have the sub coming on Tuesday, along with 3 boxes full of Aperion speakers!
post #347 of 9863
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post

So I'd like to get a few opinions on a pair of XS15's. In a strictly home theater application how would dual XS15's stack up againsts a pair of SVS PB12-NSD's? I was going to go with the SVS subs but I really like the design of the new PSA XS15. I would go with a pair of XV15's but they are just too tall. My theater room is 2000cubic/ft and has a 6ft wide opening into a little 10x10ft area.


Room acoustics (and room gain) are tough to predict with exact detail but I would not be surprised if you found dual XS15s to extend down to nearly single digits in this room...something in the 9-14hz range to be sure. Output capabilities will depend quite a bit on the intended placement and the distance between the subwoofers and the key seats. If you planned a typical setup with one subwoofer in each front corner of the system layout (and the seating say...2-3 meters away) I'd say 115-121dB clean at the seats down to the 16-20hz range is a good guess. if you don't mind me asking---which receiver/processor and speakers are you using in the system?

Also, if you could send a rough sketch of the intended system / room layout to our support box that would be great. Thanks!

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio
Edited by Tom Vodhanel - 11/3/12 at 10:54am
post #348 of 9863
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Vodhanel View Post

Room acoustics (and room gain) are tough to predict with exact detail but I would not be surprised if you found dual XS15s to extend down to nearly single digits in this room...something in the 9-14hz range to be sure. Output capabilities will depend quite a bit on the intended placement and the distance between the subwoofers and the key seats. If you planned a typical setup with one subwoofer in each front corner of the system layout (and the seating say...2-3 meters away) I'd say 115-121dB clean at the seats down to the 16-20hz range is a good guess. if you don't mind me asking---which receiver/processor and speakers are you using in the system?
Also, if you could send a rough sketch of the intended system / room layout to our support box that would be great. Thanks!
Tom V.
Power Sound Audio

Wow that's great to hear Tom. Right now I'm using a Pioneer VSX-23, but plan to upgrade it soon. I'm just trying to decide which receiver to go with, I will get something with Audyssey MultEQ XT32 to calibrate the dual subs. Most likely I'll go with the Denon AVR-4520CI or a AVR-4311CI. Unless I decide to go with seperates. For my surrounds I'm using Axiom Audio QS8's a really like them, and for my fronts I've been using JBL Northridge E80's and a EC35 center channel. But these will be making way for a new Ascend Acoustics Sierra towers along with their new match Sierra Horizon Tower center speaker soon.

You are pretty much bang on, I was planning on placing one sub in each corner of my front wall. And my first row of seats are exactly 8ft away from where my sub is now. I'll try to get you a sketch of my intended system and room layout.

Thanks
Joe
post #349 of 9863
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post

Wow that's great to hear Tom. Right now I'm using a Pioneer VSX-23, but plan to upgrade it soon. I'm just trying to decide which receiver to go with, I will get something with Audyssey MultEQ XT32 to calibrate the dual subs. Most likely I'll go with the Denon AVR-4520CI or a AVR-4311CI. Unless I decide to go with seperates. For my surrounds I'm using Axiom Audio QS8's a really like them, and for my fronts I've been using JBL Northridge E80's and a EC35 center channel. But these will be making way for a new Ascend Acoustics Sierra towers along with their new match Sierra Horizon Tower center speaker soon.
You are pretty much bang on, I was planning on placing one sub in each corner of my front wall. And my first row of seats are exactly 8ft away from where my sub is now. I'll try to get you a sketch of my intended system and room layout.
Thanks
Joe

Hi Joe,

I've heard there are/will be great deals on the 4311 to make room for the newer models so shop around a bit when you are ready to pull the trigger. I would also lean toward a unit that included Audy's Sub EQ HT too all things being equal.

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio
post #350 of 9863
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimWilson View Post

My review was pushed back several weeks...

Well darn, Jim, that means I'll have to wait even longer before deciding to... oops... wait, never mind. Just bought one.

With all I've been hearing about the XS15, it just sounded perfect for my room and use needs, so I went ahead and ordered one this weekend. I exchanged some emails with Tom, who was extremely helpful, of course; his commitment gives me a lot of confidence in his company.

I do have a little question on setup. My Denon 3310ci has the older Audyssey MultiEQ (not XT and no Sub EQ). Are there any extra steps I can take to improve calibration?
post #351 of 9863
Quote:
Originally Posted by radiofrog View Post

I do have a little question on setup. My Denon 3310ci has the older Audyssey MultiEQ (not XT and no Sub EQ). Are there any extra steps I can take to improve calibration?

MultiEQ does have sub filters, so it should be able to help in that regard. If you find it's insufficient though you might want to consider the Anti-Mode. It's pretty seamless, and seems like it works quite well.
post #352 of 9863
Played some Call of Duty MW3 over the weekend with the xv15s all i can say is awesome. Any one else do any gaming with there subs? Having powered speakers in the front and surrounds + the xv15s is by far the best purchases i have made i have nvr been so immursed in anything before. Only had the subs couple weeks and im already telln myself if 2 r this good what about 4 lol.
post #353 of 9863
Looking for some feedback on which Power Sound sub would best fit my situation. I have a small home theater with a projector / screen combo in the finished area of my basement. The total space in the finished area is roughly 2,130 cubic feet. The ceilings are 7 feet high.

I would mainly be using the sub for movies.

Thanks in advance.


Here is a not-to-scale sketch of the space.

XBSYc.jpg
post #354 of 9863
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLaw612 View Post

Make that zero left smile.gif LOL I ordered one a few minutes ago as well and also had a few emails back and forth with Tom - he couldn't have been any more helpful. Makes me feel great knowing the level of service that is available in the event that something goes wrong. I'm also wondering how my wife will react when she sees it arrive... Can't wait!
- Brad

Thanks for buying the last one wink.gif . Now I won't be tempted.
post #355 of 9863
Just have to say that I can't wait for Wed as that is the day my XV15b shows up. When Tom said he had the b-stock items above, I emailed him last Thursday and took one off his hands. I'm not well versed enough in the topic to give a measured review but will report back with my non-techical layman thoughts after a bit. I'm sure I'll be blown away as it's replacing my dying 10 year old AR 112. Watching the FedEx site like my kids watch the Santa tracker as this thing moves from OH to AZ.

Thanks Tom for all the quick email responses.

Eric

For Hoss, I'll leave the recommendation to the experts and I know you said the pic is not to scale, but it looks like your viewing area is smack dab in the middle of the room which could give you the dreaded null spot issue regardless of sub. For mostly movies, I think the standard recomendation is to go ported but even that is personal preference. You just need to decide how big, how many, how much of a basshead you are and your budget. Are you replacing an existing sub? Always good to know what the starting reference point is for someone. I expect my XV15 to be absolutely plenty for me and my space and I have more cubic ft than you. Others here would need mulitples to be close to satisfied.
post #356 of 9863
Hoss whats ur budget? If manly movies go ported. I have a setup similer to urs except mine is 28x20 i run 2 xv15s and love them
post #357 of 9863
My budget is in the 800-1000 range for a sub. My initial thoughts were the xv15, but just wanted to double check with you guys. If I need to add a second xv15 that would be a possibility next year, however, I'm coming from a small Polk PSW111 (got it super cheap from a friend as a stop-gap until I could afford a real sub), so I'm guessing a single xv15 is going to blow me away.

I am sitting in the middle of the space, and I know this isn't ideal, but it's about the only option in the space. Any recommendations on sub placement?

Thanks for the replies!
post #358 of 9863
Quote:
Originally Posted by hoss1000 View Post

My budget is in the 800-1000 range for a sub. My initial thoughts were the xv15, but just wanted to double check with you guys. If I need to add a second xv15 that would be a possibility next year, however, I'm coming from a small Polk PSW111 (got it super cheap from a friend as a stop-gap until I could afford a real sub), so I'm guessing a single xv15 is going to blow me away.
I am sitting in the middle of the space, and I know this isn't ideal, but it's about the only option in the space.
Thanks for the replies!

yeah, the middle of the room can have a bass null. experiment with your seating if possible. moving up closer just a foot can make a big difference.
post #359 of 9863
Hoss, with your budget I'd get the XV15, keep the couple of hundred extra set aside for the second one for now. If a couple of weeks from now you are still happy with the one sub (which coming from the Polk is very likely), you have money for something else cool already started.
post #360 of 9863
Quote:
Originally Posted by nicker1987 View Post

Played some Call of Duty MW3 over the weekend with the xv15s all i can say is awesome. Any one else do any gaming with there subs? Having powered speakers in the front and surrounds + the xv15s is by far the best purchases i have made i have nvr been so immursed in anything before. Only had the subs couple weeks and im already telln myself if 2 r this good what about 4 lol.

I pre-ordered Black Ops II, and have Halo 4 shipping today. Once I get everything set up, I will let you know. My single will be mostly for Home Theater as my little ones don't allow me to game much...I assume it is a pretty surreal experience with the dual XV15s!
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