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Official Power Sound Audio Thread - Page 15

post #421 of 9923
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

Maybe I'm not saying it right as graphs show me that vented digs deeper with less effort and have flatter graphs on the left side of the x-axis. From 40Hz > 20Hz, I see the sealed subs falling off earlier and faster than ported; 3dB vs 12dB in your stated example. How should I have posted my comment?
???
I don't see any graphs for PSA on data-bass so I'm not posting an example link.
-

I believe what Steve is saying is that sealed subs can have a shallower roll off below the tuning point. So, the further below tuning, the earlier output advantages of a ported sub are lost and eventually the sealed sub will give more output than a ported one. Hence, it can "dig" deeper.

For example, here is a fictional pair of subs, measuring Frequency (X-Axis) and SPL (Y-axis) . (Note: This was quickly slapped together with MS Paint, yes feel free to laugh, and I do not pretend this actually shows the real FR slopes, it is just meant to be explanatory)



You can see that the ported sub has more output (blue fill area) than the sealed sub, but that its FR rolls off very quickly below the tuning point. The sealed sub, with the shallower roll off, drops more gradually. At a point, the ported sub's output is dropping so fast that the sealed sub has more energy (green fill area). Coupled with room gain, the shallow subs roll off may extend the useable output further than the ported subs.

Of course, not all sealed subs have the same roll off, some manufactures will add prodigious EQ to the lower frequencies to flatten the curve some, and then will drop rapidly below a point. The Epik Empire shows this rather well.

Further, infrasonics also require a significant amount of energy to be readily perceived, and the lower the frequency, the more energy the sub needs to create to have it be noticeable. a 50db 10hz tone isn't likely to be noticed or useful, especially if other sounds are masking it in a soundtrack. And there is quite a bit of debate on how much infrasonics are intended (I think in at least some soundtracks they are there on purpose), and how much benefit/enjoyment individuals will get from them.
Edited by Snowmanick - 11/15/12 at 12:02pm
post #422 of 9923
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowmanick View Post

I believe what Steve is saying is that sealed subs can have a shallower roll off below the tuning point.

Indeed. Thanks for the additional clarification complete with graphics (I'm not laughing at least).
post #423 of 9923
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve1981 View Post

Fortunately fruit salad is tasty. biggrin.gif
Moral of the story though: vented and sealed make tradeoffs. Depending on your situation, one might be more suitable than the other.

LOL. biggrin.gif

Who'd have thought subwoofers were such a tough subject matter to buy for?

.......................rolleyes.gif
post #424 of 9923
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowmanick View Post

For example, here is a fictional pair of subs, measuring Frequency (X-Axis) and SPL (Y-axis) . (Note: This was quickly slapped together with MS Paint, yes feel free to laugh, and I do not pretend this actually shows the real FR slopes, it is just meant to be explanatory)

Thanks. Excellent example as it clearly mirrors what I've seen and your explanation clearly mirrors my interpretation of the charts that I've seen. My thinking, at 40Hz, starts back a bit further than most examples I see which like to start around 20Hz > 25Hz.

"Your honor, I have no further questions and I'll be the guy sequestered over in the corner there. Please ignore all acts of hugging myself and the accompanied low volume moaning."

................................tongue.gif

Don't worry, with no troubles, I follow all that's been shared. I'm now in the phase of finding a new way of articulating the complicated into the simple as my vision, unintentionally, muddies things a bit.

-
Edited by BeeMan458 - 11/15/12 at 12:02pm
post #425 of 9923
As stated people were comparing a Submersive to a ported PSA sub. The Submersive is a sealed sub that cost $2300. You can most likely get 4 XS-15's for slightly more and have more output. I will assume(uh oh) that both have great sound quality. I have always seen GTG's with dual Caps and dual submersives vs duals or singles of other subs. Guess which always win? I would love to see a quad XS-15 vs a single Submersive comparo. Now if size is a consideration having one powerful sub is nice.

Beeman, I would love to see a ported sub that can go as low as my sealed sub system.
post #426 of 9923
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

Beeman, I would love to see a ported sub that can go as low as my sealed sub system.

As I posted, I'm going have to find a new way, in the simple, to articulate a confusing and complicated dictum when it comes to roll off and the discernability of a mix of frequencies vs that of a pure frequency and what I incorrectly characterize as "digging deeper." And I'm surely not going get into a dust up over how low can it go or how many less expensive subs does it take to make one quality sub as the subject matter of subwoofers is as much emotion as it is empirical. rolleyes.gif

If it would help, I'm happy to say, I blew the answer as it was overly simplistic and due to the simplicity of the response, it was an inaccurate call but just because everybody else didn't know what I was posting about doesn't mean that I didn't understand what I was posting about. tongue.gif

FWIW, there's a reason I've moved my thinking from the lower ranked subwoofers to the upper ranked subwoofers and in the short it's because of all these technical limitations of ported vs sealed, flat response curve vs tuning and the amount of energy being put into the lower frequencies.

If I had a bank account like "The Donald," none of this would be a problem as everything would be custom and the biggest worry would be finding the time to personally pop-the-corn.

-
Edited by BeeMan458 - 11/15/12 at 12:26pm
post #427 of 9923
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

As I posted, I'm going have to find a new way, in the simple, to articulate a confusing and complicated dictum when it comes to roll off and the discernability of a mix of frequencies vs that of a pure frequency and what I incorrectly characterize as "digging deeper." And I'm surely not going get into a dust up over how low can it go or how many less expensive subs does it take to make one quality sub as the subject matter of subwoofers is as much emotion as it is empirical. rolleyes.gif
If it would help, I'm happy to say, I blew the answer as it was overly simplistic and due to the simplicity of the response, it was an inaccurate call but just because everybody else didn't know what I was posting about doesn't mean that I didn't understand what I was posting about. tongue.gif
FWIW, there's a reason I've moved my thinking from the lower ranked subwoofers to the upper ranked subwoofers and in the short it's because of all these technical limitations of ported vs sealed, flat response curve vs tuning and the amount of energy being put into the lower frequencies.
If I had a bank account like "The Donald," none of this would be a problem as everything would be custom and the biggest worry would be finding the time to personally pop-the-corn.
-

IT is all about goals. First thing people need to know is how loud and low they want to go. Then they need to listen to subs that can do that and pick their favorite sub. I have always felt that the more expensive subs always sound better because they have more bandwidth and can play louder without compression. They usually have a nice flat response at 1 meter outside. These more expensive subs usually use drivers that could achieve this. If one uses a cheaper driver it might not do this but in multiples it may. To me if 4 lesser subs can achieve the same SPL and extension with the same response they will sound very close. Now it is up to the individual what it worth it or not. Ported subs will always have an advantage at and around tune when using the same driver. I built a LLT eD 18 inch driver based sub before tuned to 13.4 hz and it took 2 of the same driver in a sealed cabinet to equal the output from 10-25hz but I had more below 10hz and more above 25hz. Sealed subs are built with a 12 dB rolloff and the ported subs are usually built with a 24 dB rolloff after tune. With room gain my ported subs always had a peak at wherever the tune was but my sealed subs were flat. EQ can fix that peak but the sealed subs always went deeper before it dropped off. My Danley DTS-10's were tuned to 12.5hz and were flat to 9hz in room. My sealed subs are flat to 4hz in room. A 20hz tuned sub will be flat to 15hz in my room.
post #428 of 9923
Just got home from picking up my pair of XV15's, what a clusterbleep the bridge is from the US to Canada here in Windsor. I humped both boxes off the truck and into the house by myself, so when my hernia heals I will hook them up! j/k! tongue.gif

Im gonna make a pot of coffee, snap a couple pics, move some of the junk in the half finished HT room out of the way and fire them up (one at a time though, my old Yamaha HTR 6080 is only 7.1 /cry)
post #429 of 9923
Quote:
Originally Posted by nicker1987 View Post

Walke108 i got black ops ll on order too cant wait to kill me sum zombies and have my house shacking in the process.
Hoss1000 i think u will be happy with a xv15 and remember returning customers get a discount so if u end up needing another

So what do you think of Black Ops 2? My entire house has been shaking. The sound is absolutely amazing from the game coupled with the XV-15. Explosions are pretty damn intense!
post #430 of 9923
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slingblayde View Post

...and fire them up (one at a time though, my old Yamaha HTR 6080 is only 7.1 /cry)

FYI, a "Y-splitter" will allow you to light both at the same time and not harm the signal.

41fpUO1tzJL._SL500_AA300_.jpg
post #431 of 9923
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slingblayde View Post

Just got home from picking up my pair of XV15's, what a clusterbleep the bridge is from the US to Canada here in Windsor. I humped both boxes off the truck and into the house by myself, so when my hernia heals I will hook them up! j/k! tongue.gif
Im gonna make a pot of coffee, snap a couple pics, move some of the junk in the half finished HT room out of the way and fire them up (one at a time though, my old Yamaha HTR 6080 is only 7.1 /cry)

So you drove all the way to Youngstown? Did customs give you a problem bringing them across the border?
post #432 of 9923
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slingblayde View Post

Just got home from picking up my pair of XV15's, what a clusterbleep the bridge is from the US to Canada here in Windsor. I humped both boxes off the truck and into the house by myself, so when my hernia heals I will hook them up! j/k! tongue.gif
Im gonna make a pot of coffee, snap a couple pics, move some of the junk in the half finished HT room out of the way and fire them up (one at a time though, my old Yamaha HTR 6080 is only 7.1 /cry)

Slingblayde, can you tell me if you had to pay any duty? Or did you just have to pay the taxes at the border? I'm located in Vancouver and wanted to order 2 XS15's and have them shipped to my buddy in Washington and just run down and bring them back myself.
post #433 of 9923
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

FYI, a "Y-splitter" will allow you to light both at the same time and not harm the signal.
41fpUO1tzJL._SL500_AA300_.jpg

BeeMan thanks for the linkage. I know what IM going to buy tomorrow! biggrin.gif

@raynist - I got them shipped to my buddies house over in Detroit, I only live a couple miles from the border of Windsor and Detroit, so I can go over to his house and be back again in about an hour, sometimes an hour and a half depending on how wacky the traffic is on I-94. Customs didnt give me any hassle, I was in and out in 5 minutes.

@jbrown15 - I had to pay GST tax on them, heaven forbid the Gov't doesnt get its sleazy hands on a little more of our money. GST tax = %13, so it cost me another $197 bucks. Shipping them over to my buddies house saved me about 200 bucks, the quote PSA got from Fedex to ship directly Canada was quite expensive. If you can do the same thing I did I would recommend it.

I also have to add the guys at PSA were very nice to deal with in all aspects of the sale of these 2 subs to me. Cheers!
post #434 of 9923
Hi all,

Quick update: We have had a incredible "run" on XV30s in the past week or so. Thank you to all who ordered of course! Bad news---we will be out of XV30 enclosures for a short period. All current orders are okay(being built this weekend for shipment Monday). But any new order as of 11/16 (2pm) will be delayed. I apologize for any inconvenience this may cause anyone.

XS15 and XV15 will continue to ship out within 1-2 business days of ordering.

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio
post #435 of 9923
That's great news for Power Sound! Congratulations on what appears to be a top product.

Hopefully the new XV30 owners will come back with a review or two soon.
post #436 of 9923
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Vodhanel View Post

Hi all,
Quick update: We have had a incredible "run" on XV30s in the past week or so. Thank you to all who ordered of course! Bad news---we will be out of XV30 enclosures for a short period. All current orders are okay(being built this weekend for shipment Monday). But any new order as of 11/16 (2pm) will be delayed. I apologize for any inconvenience this may cause anyone.
XS15 and XV15 will continue to ship out within 1-2 business days of ordering.
Tom V.
Power Sound Audio

Thanks Tom for the update, please make sure another XV15 has my name on it.wink.gif
post #437 of 9923
Quote:
Originally Posted by hoss1000 View Post

So, I'm no expert when it comes to reading these things, and I realize this is just a small piece of the overall review but this looks pretty good, right? Certainly nothing bad here? Getting ready to pull the trigger on that xv15.

Giddy up partner and pull that trigger, you'll be glad you did....smile.gif
post #438 of 9923
I found an RCA Y splitter in my "box" of spare wires. (I think everybody has one, with a zillion different cables and wires that came with components over the years) I hooked up the first sub last night and messed around and was VERY impressed at the performance of it. Today I found that Y cable and hooked the second up and was in shock at how awesome 2 was. I used a cheap red/white RCA cable, split it down the middle and ran it to both subs, unbelievable.

I LoL'd at the size difference of the Logitech Z680 5.1 system I had rigged up downstairs compared to the size of an XV15. And to think I thought that craptastic Logitech sounded pretty good.
post #439 of 9923
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slingblayde View Post

I found an RCA Y splitter in my "box" of spare wires. (I think everybody has one, with a zillion different cables and wires that came with components over the years) I hooked up the first sub last night and messed around and was VERY impressed at the performance of it. Today I found that Y cable and hooked the second up and was in shock at how awesome 2 was. I used a cheap red/white RCA cable, split it down the middle and ran it to both subs, unbelievable.
I LoL'd at the size difference of the Logitech Z680 5.1 system I had rigged up downstairs compared to the size of an XV15. And to think I thought that craptastic Logitech sounded pretty good.

Glad to hear that your happy with the XV15s, can't wait to get the second, I'm going to have a hard time sneaking that second beast into the house without the SO noticing, I'll just tell her again to expect something big today and she will be too excited to notice biggrin.gif:D:D
post #440 of 9923
Quote:
Originally Posted by ahblaza View Post

Giddy up partner and pull that trigger, you'll be glad you did....smile.gif

It's done! I slammed my virtual money down on the virtual counter and ordered one. Can't wait to experience it in my theater.
post #441 of 9923
Quote:
Originally Posted by ahblaza View Post

I'll just tell her again to expect something big today and she will be too excited to notice biggrin.gif:D:D

........................eek.gif

........................tongue.gif
post #442 of 9923
Walke108 with the 2 xv15s stacked and playing black ops 2 is a blast and in the sound option of the game u can boost low freq if u didnt kno that. I guess it figures not every one is as special as us and has 15" subs smile.gif. Tmrw i will have 4 tvs goin and 8 ppl playing cant wait.
post #443 of 9923
Quote:
Originally Posted by nicker1987 View Post

Walke108 with the 2 xv15s stacked and playing black ops 2 is a blast and in the sound option of the game u can boost low freq if u didnt kno that. I guess it figures not every one is as special as us and has 15" subs smile.gif. Tmrw i will have 4 tvs goin and 8 ppl playing cant wait.

Now this sounds like a fun time! smile.gif So you stacked both of yours? If so does it look a little funny given the gap with the base stand?
post #444 of 9923
Its a fun drunkn time thats for sure. Yup i stacked them tom said i could stack them like one upside down and other on top but thats not what i wanted cuz i didnt think it would look right so i took the bottom off that holds them up and stacked them on there sides on top of each other with subs showing
post #445 of 9923
Quote:
Originally Posted by nicker1987 View Post

Walke108 with the 2 xv15s stacked and playing black ops 2 is a blast and in the sound option of the game u can boost low freq if u didnt kno that. I guess it figures not every one is as special as us and has 15" subs smile.gif. Tmrw i will have 4 tvs goin and 8 ppl playing cant wait.

Thanks for sound tip in the options menu. I had not seen that yet! I can't imagine it being any louder than it already is when the bombs are being dropped. I am pretty jealous of the duals. I have no space and my wife would kill me. Would love to see a picture of your stacked duals, and the 4 TV's! That is going to be one hell of a fun time for you guys.
post #446 of 9923
Nicker1987, just curious. In your equipment list you have a Panasonic 65st50 TV listed.(Great TV BTW). Wondering what (if you don't mind)
what your other 3 TV's are. If they are Panasonic 65st50 that would be beyond awesome!

vardo
post #447 of 9923
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

FYI, a "Y-splitter" will allow you to light both at the same time and not harm the signal.
41fpUO1tzJL._SL500_AA300_.jpg
I have these exact cables connected to my dual XV-30's!!
post #448 of 9923
Quote:
Originally Posted by nicker1987 View Post

Its a fun drunkn time thats for sure. Yup i stacked them tom said i could stack them like one upside down and other on top but thats not what i wanted cuz i didnt think it would look right so i took the bottom off that holds them up and stacked them on there sides on top of each other with subs showing

Your impressions, very curious to hear what you think, thanks.
post #449 of 9923
Quote:
Originally Posted by nicker1987 View Post

Its a fun drunkn time thats for sure. Yup i stacked them tom said i could stack them like one upside down and other on top but thats not what i wanted cuz i didnt think it would look right so i took the bottom off that holds them up and stacked them on there sides on top of each other with subs showing

Not worried about them vibrating off the top of each other? I mean you would obviously see it, its not like it would fall on the floor, but I wonder if it will end up where you have to realign them after every movie. Maybe place some sort of cloth or something between to act like a gasket to keep the surfaces from sliding around?
post #450 of 9923
Quote:
Not worried about them vibrating off the top of each other? ... Maybe place some sort of cloth or something between to act like a gasket to keep the surfaces from sliding around?
Good point. Something like this (pro-grip shelf liner) should work well. (I used it to keep the SHO-10s I was demoing from moving around on my subs.)
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