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Official Power Sound Audio Thread - Page 17

post #481 of 9893
Bee,

The antimode 8033S is on my list too, as it does duals (or so I've read). I've got 4 years on you! Damn,
time goes so fast when you get older....just got to enjoy each day. smile.gif

vardo (who thinks the antimode will be his last upgrade, ha)
post #482 of 9893
Quote:
Originally Posted by vardo View Post

Bee,
The antimode 8033S is on my list too, as it does duals (or so I've read). I've got 4 years on you! Damn,
time goes so fast when you get older....just got to enjoy each day. smile.gif
vardo (who thinks the antimode will be his last upgrade, ha)

No point in wasting another day. Why the 8033 S vs the 8033 C? I just need to find out if we need the 8033 C or the 8033 S as our sub-out is a mono signal. Once I have an answer to that question, then I'll have them ship a unit and once again, get those old subs, dialed in.
post #483 of 9893
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

No point in wasting another day. Why the 8033 S vs the 8033 C? I just need to find out if we need the 8033 C or the 8033 S as our sub-out is a mono signal. Once I have an answer to that question, then I'll have them ship a unit and once again, get those old subs, dialed in.

Bee, I have Googled this and read many posts (the 8803C version and 8033S version). The general consensuses was
that if you co locate, or have two subs placed symmetrically from the listening position (I have mine in each corner,
and basically sit in the middle between the two) it can combine the sound of the subs for smoothest frequency.

I could be wrong of course. I wish someone would chime in and say yes that's true, or rubbish you need to buy
two 8033 eq's, one for each sub regardless of placement. Bsoko2 (a frequent poster on AVS) had an antimode
8033 and 4 Epik Empire subs, and he used on 8033 to go to all subs and he was really impressed.

Bsoko2 got rid of the Epik subs and ended up buying Submissive subs He still uses one antimode 8033 (for all 3) and he's
very happy with the results also.

Anyways my 2 cents,

vardo
Edited by vardo - 11/23/12 at 7:36pm
post #484 of 9893
Quote:
Originally Posted by vardo View Post

Anyways my 2 cents,
vardo

An off topic PM sent.
post #485 of 9893
Quote:
Originally Posted by jw00dy View Post

This may have been asked already, but are there any plans to make front firing subs?


Hello, we always seem to have various designs in different stages of development. At least one is front firing. There is no set schedule when a new design is ready though. We simply keep working on it until we are comfortable that it is as good as it can get. So it could be weeks or months until more detailed information is released.

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio
post #486 of 9893
Thank you Tom. I love what I read about your subs and would like to buy, however, I love being able to see the driver, which is why I prefer front firing -- thats half the fun to me. I look forward to future announcements.
post #487 of 9893
Quote:
Originally Posted by jw00dy View Post

Thank you Tom. I love what I read about your subs and would like to buy, however, I love being able to see the driver, which is why I prefer front firing -- thats half the fun to me. I look forward to future announcements.

I hear what you are saying JWoody, I like to see the driver as well. However, I bought the XV-15 and this is the first down firing sub I have ever owned. I must say, I have much more piece of mind with my 5 and 2&1/2 year old playing around the down firing sub!
post #488 of 9893
Jwoody i like my subs showing too thats y i took the bottom riser off both mine and placed them on there sides and never noticed any sound difference with that but u have to get shorter screws to screw back into the holes other wise if u used the old ones they would be to long and puncture the foam r whatever is in side.
post #489 of 9893
Quote:
Originally Posted by walke108 View Post

I hear what you are saying JWoody, I like to see the driver as well. However, I bought the XV-15 and this is the first down firing sub I have ever owned. I must say, I have much more piece of mind with my 5 and 2&1/2 year old playing around the down firing sub!

Any concerns with the large port and young children? I have a 21 month old and a newborn at home. I envision toys making their way through the port.. I'm looking to replace a single svs pc13 with duals of something. The xv15 is at the top of my list currently.
post #490 of 9893
Quote:
Originally Posted by ndskurfer View Post

Any concerns with the large port and young children? I have a 21 month old and a newborn at home. I envision toys making their way through the port.. I'm looking to replace a single svs pc13 with duals of something. The xv15 is at the top of my list currently.

What about the XS15 then? It's sealed so there are no ports to collect toys.
post #491 of 9893
Quote:
Originally Posted by ndskurfer View Post

Any concerns with the large port and young children? I have a 21 month old and a newborn at home. I envision toys making their way through the port.. I'm looking to replace a single svs pc13 with duals of something. The xv15 is at the top of my list currently.
I have my sub in the corner with the port facing the corner. It really is too big for the kids to get behind it. I think they are more intrigued playing on top of the sub.

Dual XV-15's would sound amazing. Couple of the guys here have that setup.
post #492 of 9893
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimWilson View Post

What about the XS15 then? It's sealed so there are no ports to collect toys.

Have been considering these as well. Looking forward to your review smile.gif

Coming from an svs pc13, I don't want to give up too much on the low end. I do feel I'm missing that upper punch though that I think the psa will give me?? The duals with 15" vs 1 13" sounds like it will be a lot of fun. I also have very uneven response across the room - duals should help with this as well. I just acquired an antimode and moved the svs nearfield, which helped a bit, but still lacking. Was placed farfield with a bfd for eq. Both measure flat, but different "feel" from moving it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by walke108 View Post

I have my sub in the corner with the port facing the corner. It really is too big for the kids to get behind it. I think they are more intrigued playing on top of the sub.
Dual XV-15's would sound amazing. Couple of the guys here have that setup.

One of the xv15's would be behind my theater seating with the port facing in a direction that would force them to climb over it to get to the port. Depending on room response and testing, the second sub may need to have placement as you described.


I hope my logic in replacing the pc13 will give me the results I'm looking for.
Edited by ndskurfer - 11/24/12 at 8:42am
post #493 of 9893
Quote:
Originally Posted by ndskurfer View Post

Have been considering these as well. Looking forward to your review smile.gif

I'm sitting here listening to it as we speak (well, type anyway). The XS15 is currently setup with some ARX speakers I'm also reviewing -- the A1b's and an A2b -- and I gotta say this makes for one helluva combination. I'm liking this group. These folks may never get their speakers and subwoofer back now... tongue.gif

Quote:
Originally Posted by ndskurfer View Post

Coming from an svs pc13, I don't want to give up too much on the low end. I do feel I'm missing that upper punch though that I think the psa will give me?? The duals with 15" vs 1 13" sounds like it will be a lot of fun.

The PC13 is probably a very nice sub, but I suspect it would be decimated by a pair of XS15's. To me that seems like a really solid upgrade.
post #494 of 9893
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimWilson View Post

I'm sitting here listening to it as we speak (well, type anyway). The XS15 is currently setup with some ARX speakers I'm also reviewing -- the A1b's and an A2b -- and I gotta say this makes for one helluva combination. I'm liking this group. These folks may never get their speakers and subwoofer back now... tongue.gif
TThe PC13 is probably a very nice sub, but I suspect it would be decimated by a pair of XS15's. To me that seems like a really solid upgrade.

Thanks Jim, I'm loving the XV15 with my ARX A5's and waiting on the second XV15, I could only imagine............biggrin.gif;)
post #495 of 9893
Well, I think I am ready to give PSA some $$. I have a large room, almost 6000ft3, family room environment with a 5channel setup. I have been waiting out the subs til last, and that time is here. I have Revel F12s, C12 and S12 surrounds. I just purchased a new Denon 4520 and unloaded my 4311. I have been going back and forth on subs, and have pretty much submitted to the idea that two subs will be needed in this room and they will have to be powerfull. I like ref level sound/feel, but didn't want to dish out the $$ for dual caps or Subm. I did look into Rythmik 15hps, but it appears that dual xv30 should be able to best the Rythmiks at around the same price for a pair. I was ready to spring for them and stopped. I have a dedicated room being built and it will have some crazy horsepower, so I have begun to feel that going "all out" in the family room isn't required. That said, I think a pair of XV15s will do quite well. I have had a few conversations with Tom and he is aces. I feel total comfortable doing business with PSA. Tom cautioned that the 15 pair will have some great sound/impact, but may run out of steam at the very highest levels in my room. I think I am ok with that for a savings of $1k in the secondary room. Any thoughts are welcome:)
post #496 of 9893
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChopShop1 View Post

That said, I think a pair of XV15s will do quite well. I have had a few conversations with Tom and he is aces. I feel total comfortable doing business with PSA. Tom cautioned that the 15 pair will have some great sound/impact, but may run out of steam at the very highest levels in my room. I think I am ok with that for a savings of $1k in the secondary room. Any thoughts are welcome:)

If Tom is cautioning you that a pair of XV15's might run out of steam in your room -- which I would agree with -- you may want to reconsider your decision. He has a tendency to be very cautious about what he says and if he has reservations then you should as well, especially if you really do want to run at or near reference level. You may want to think of either quad XV15's or dual XV30's, just to be certain you have enough available headroom.
post #497 of 9893
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimWilson View Post

If Tom is cautioning you that a pair of XV15's might run out of steam in your room -- which I would agree with -- you may want to reconsider your decision. He has a tendency to be very cautious about what he says and if he has reservations then you should as well, especially if you really do want to run at or near reference level. You may want to think of either quad XV15's or dual XV30's, just to be certain you have enough available headroom.

That is what kept me going back and forth. I just know that the amount of time I get to run reference in the fam room vs the theater will be minimal. That said, I don't even want to try it once and be dissapointed. While he said they may fall just short. Tom sounded fine with selling me the 15s for my purposes, but stated that the 30s would reach reference without a problem. I am able to place either in the two front corners(only placement option in this room) and they will basically be concealed by the two love seats, one on either side of the room. The placement of the couches blocks the view of the potential sub locations. They will have the luxury of being corner loaded, but will be every bit of twenty feet apart on the flipside.
post #498 of 9893
XV15 came today. What a beast! As others have mentioned, Tom was great to work with.




post #499 of 9893
Quote:
Originally Posted by walke108 View Post

I hear what you are saying JWoody, I like to see the driver as well. However, I bought the XV-15 and this is the first down firing sub I have ever owned. I must say, I have much more piece of mind with my 5 and 2&1/2 year old playing around the down firing sub!
Quote:
Originally Posted by nicker1987 View Post

Jwoody i like my subs showing too thats y i took the bottom riser off both mine and placed them on there sides and never noticed any sound difference with that but u have to get shorter screws to screw back into the holes other wise if u used the old ones they would be to long and puncture the foam r whatever is in side.
My youngest is 4 and she doesn't mess with stuff anyway. I'm very patient with my purchases, so I'm fine waiting for dual sealed front firing subs. Hopefully they come before my saved money gets spent somewhere else...
post #500 of 9893
Sigh, it sure is a buzz kill when FedEx skips your delivery and claims no one was home when you go to lengths to ensure someone is around all day long.

I guess I'll have to wait one more day for my XV15 frown.gif
post #501 of 9893
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChopShop1 View Post

That is what kept me going back and forth. I just know that the amount of time I get to run reference in the fam room vs the theater will be minimal. That said, I don't even want to try it once and be dissapointed. While he said they may fall just short. Tom sounded fine with selling me the 15s for my purposes, but stated that the 30s would reach reference without a problem. I am able to place either in the two front corners(only placement option in this room) and they will basically be concealed by the two love seats, one on either side of the room. The placement of the couches blocks the view of the potential sub locations. They will have the luxury of being corner loaded, but will be every bit of twenty feet apart on the flipside.

Hi Chopshop,

If you have time later this afternoon give me a call. I'd like to revisit our conversation(s) as we may have left a stone or two un-turned so to speak. Thanks.

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio
post #502 of 9893
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ely51um View Post

Sigh, it sure is a buzz kill when FedEx skips your delivery and claims no one was home when you go to lengths to ensure someone is around all day long.
I guess I'll have to wait one more day for my XV15 frown.gif

Please email me if you continue to have issues with delivery. Our fedex representative has been very responsive to similar issues we have reported to him.

Thanks,

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio
post #503 of 9893
Tom, would you say the xv30 would have more output than a single svs pc13u? how much more? thx...
post #504 of 9893
Quote:
Originally Posted by airgas1998 View Post

Tom, would you say the xv30 would have more output than a single svs pc13u? how much more? thx...

I don't think you would be looking at a huge increase in overall "max" output...maybe a dB or 3 for the XV30. However I believe you would find the bass to sound substantially different. The XV30 has approximately 2.5x the cone area and port area(assuming 15hz mode). So for any given output level the XV30 will be "working" substantially less(in both cone excursion and port flow). Also, the shallow frequency extension roll off of the XV30 has been shaped to minimize ringing and group delay. While the audibility of the latter metrics is often debated I do believe both make a real difference---particularly with music. In terms of sheer output though....I don't think you would consider the XV30 to be a "day/night" type of upgrade. If you don't mind me asking how large is the listening room and are there any large opening to other areas of the home?

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio
post #505 of 9893
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Vodhanel View Post

Also, the shallow frequency extension roll off of the XV30 has been shaped to minimize ringing and group delay. While the audibility of the latter metrics is often debated I do believe both make a real difference---particularly with music.

Odd question for you Tom:

How does putting the sub in room and running an auto-cal like Audyssey change the equation (which will generally flatten the output or apply a house curve depending on which Audyssey curve is selected)?

As a side note, I've been playing around with a PB13U a little, and can't say I noted much perceptible difference in music between the modes I've tried thus far (2 ports open & sealed) in spite of the clear measured differences. Of course, the ringing/GD problems are confined to below 20Hz, so I'm not sure how much difference could realistically be expected in any case.
post #506 of 9893
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Vodhanel View Post

I don't think you would be looking at a huge increase in overall "max" output...maybe a dB or 3 for the XV30. However I believe you would find the bass to sound substantially different. The XV30 has approximately 2.5x the cone area and port area(assuming 15hz mode). So for any given output level the XV30 will be "working" substantially less(in both cone excursion and port flow). Also, the shallow frequency extension roll off of the XV30 has been shaped to minimize ringing and group delay. While the audibility of the latter metrics is often debated I do believe both make a real difference---particularly with music. In terms of sheer output though....I don't think you would consider the XV30 to be a "day/night" type of upgrade. If you don't mind me asking how large is the listening room and are there any large opening to other areas of the home?
Tom V.
Power Sound Audio
Yes, unfortuneately it is a large area (5kcuft) with openings to the kitchen,sun room and hallway. i know duals would be the best option,but it just isn't feasible.(waf,budget). perhaps a seaton submersive would be the better option to go.no?
post #507 of 9893
Hi Steve,

With the assumption that the FR is shaped to closely match the typical "room curve" to begin with I don't think auto EQ will generally alter the inherent "sound" of a subwoofer---particularly when focusing on the deeper bass. In other words---if someone feels subwoofer *A* has better sound quality than subwoofer *B* with no auto-EQ I do not believe that will change once the auto EQ is applied.(to both subs). If the difference was significant it may become less so...but I don't believe auto-EQ will suddenly make all subwoofers sound alike or anything like that. In my opinion we should first start with the subwoofer(or speaker) already optimized for best sound quality. This way the amount of electrical modifications to the inputs signal via auto-EQ(or other) is minimized. No matter how high quality the EQing is....I think all would agree "less = better" to get to a given target performance metric.

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio
post #508 of 9893
Quote:
Originally Posted by airgas1998 View Post

Yes, unfortuneately it is a large area (5kcuft) with openings to the kitchen,sun room and hallway. i know duals would be the best option,but it just isn't feasible.(waf,budget). perhaps a seaton submersive would be the better option to go.no?

To toss in my two cents, I'd probably stick with a ported subwoofer, ie the Captivator or Funk 18.1 come to mind. While a SubM will offer prodigious output, in a room with little gain (which I'd expect yours to qualify), I'd expect the advantage a comparable ported sub to have around tuning to be beneficial.
post #509 of 9893
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Vodhanel View Post

I don't believe auto-EQ will suddenly make all subwoofers sound alike or anything like that.

Hi Tom,

I'm not trying to make that implication at all: FR is only one aspect of performance; things like distortion and performance in the time domain still come into play. However, after a conversation with Ed over at SVS a few months back, I got the impression that group delay specifically would change from what we see in say Ricci's ground plane measurements as one example, given that it is related to FR; IOW, if the FR changes (as a result of being put in room or EQ) than GD necessarily changes as well. Of course, it's entirely possible I misinterpreted Ed's statements.
post #510 of 9893
Quick addition:

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/902680-post40.html
Quote:
While a discussion of minimum phase is way beyond the OP topic, the below article does delve into how a subwoofer interacts in the room, and how the use of EQ can be used to modify the in-room FR and in-room phase response. Naturally the in-room phase response of the subwoofer differs from the quasi-anechoic phase response of the subwoofer - and the two GD plots will of course be different too.

Emphasis mine.
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