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Official Power Sound Audio Thread - Page 181

post #5401 of 9841
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

Waterford, Master Cutter editions are always a nice addition. Each with it's own accent light brings a touch of joy and happiness into any room. tongue.gif

Budget? (later, I read $1,000.00)

At <2,000 cu ft, room size comparison, your room qualifies as relatively small. That's a good thing because it helps emphasize the cabin gain which a sealed sub can take full benefit of. Helps you plumb those deep low notes we crave. How many openings do you have into what size adjacent rooms like kitchen, dining room, entryway and side bedrooms or stairs? Overall, my being clueless to your situation, starting with two or three XS15's is, in my opinion, an excellent, general starting point.

Do you have room measuring capability? If not, downloading and getting a freeware edition of REW up and running is an excellent recommendation which will help you get the best out of any subwoofer choice you make. Without room measuring capability, one will "NEVER" know what's what with what regarding how their subwoofer's output is integrating with their listening venue's acoustics; reinforcement and nulls.
Bass waves bouncing around in a room, don't play and get along well with a room's acoustics. This is corrected for with the addition of additional subwoofers, expensive room placements or both. Just saying, trying to get by on "ONE" subwoofer is a license to fail and expectedly bring disappointment into one's sonic life.

"Great expectation, major disappointments."

Recommendation? Realize, trying to make this happen on one subwoofer, is not going get you what you want, unless you're able to successfully live with mediocrity and disappointment. If you're able to live with both, then you'll be golden. If not, hopefully you'll reconsider your desire to live off the output of a single subwoofer.

Bon Jovi: "Living on a Prayer"

(great running song)

-



The room is enclosed with three doors (no opening), due to my budget ($1000 max) and space I can only do a single sub. My first option was HSU VTF-15 but I am reading good reviews about PSA subs so I am looking at XV15 or add $200 plus and get XS30.
post #5402 of 9841
So I couldn't help going back to best buy and just out of curiosity I asked the manager that always hooks me up, what kind of deal could he give me if I wanted the new Denon 4520. He made some calls and I had enough extra on me so I bought it instead of waiting for the 4311. I should be getting it around Wednesday! biggrin.gif:
post #5403 of 9841
Quote:
Originally Posted by pdxrealtor View Post

What other subs did you have over the last three years ?

Let's see,
a really crummy 10" Onkyo HtiB sub;

a Klipsch Pro Media 6" 'sub', don't laugh, it sounded better than the Onkyo and was what got me started investigating bass;

a Hsu Research STF-2;

a Mirage Prestige S8;

an Energy VSW10;

an SVSound PC12-NSD;

two XS15s.

I guess that's more like seven. Energy and Mirage were sort of the same company, call it six :-)
post #5404 of 9841
Quote:
Originally Posted by booga24 View Post

The room is enclosed with three doors (no opening), due to my budget ($1000 max) and space I can only do a single sub. My first option was HSU VTF-15 but I am reading good reviews about PSA subs so I am looking at XV15 or add $200 plus and get XS30.

Based on your above, hopefully you'll go with an XS30 and put it near a corner, near the main listening position.
post #5405 of 9841
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackmambakila View Post

.....I asked the manager that always hooks me up, what kind of deal could he give me if I wanted the new Denon 4520. He made some calls and I had enough extra on me so I bought it instead of waiting for the 4311.

...biggrin.gif
post #5406 of 9841
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

...biggrin.gif

Actually someone's advice got me to change my mind, I'm glad I went for it and got a good price. biggrin.gif I think this receiver will go good with the Triax and Trinity subs plus eq my speakers better.
post #5407 of 9841
Man my rooms been quiet now that my systems down, I should at least start banging on the walls or something eek.gif I want to post a diagram showing room dimensions and layout so that I can go over my speaker placement and plan my sub placements. Does anyone know of a good ap for this that I could use on an IPad?
post #5408 of 9841
Thanks for every answer regarding the Triax driver's foam surrounds on the last page.

But what about my second question: Does anybody know, whether there is a 220V-version of the Triax planned?


Man, I can't wait to see results of the first shootouts Triax vs. Submersive. At the moment, for me it comes to a decision between these two Behemoths. Should be a killer shootout, if it happens..biggrin.gif
post #5409 of 9841
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dustcap View Post

Thanks for every answer regarding the Triax driver's foam surrounds on the last page.

But what about my second question: Does anybody know, whether there is a 220V-version of the Triax planned?


Man, I can't wait to see results of the first shootouts Triax vs. Submersive. At the moment, for me it comes to a decision between these two Behemoths. Should be a killer shootout, if it happens..biggrin.gif


Yeah I can't wait for the match ups! biggrin.gif
post #5410 of 9841
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dustcap View Post

Does anybody know, whether there is a 220V-version of the Triax planned?

I found the following post on another forum that let me to believe that there is a way to get it but I imagine at an extra cost... I really can't validate the truthfulness of this but I suggest that if you really want one them Email Tom. Remember that money talks.wink.gif

xtremeplace forum
Question asked: "Hi tom,
In view of this, any firm plans to have the triax avail as a 230v configuration? "

From Tom: "It already is..smile.gif In fact we have nearly as many 208-240v orders as domestic orders at the moment. There is one gentleman who has ordered multiples and intends to do a "quatro-stack". I cannot vouch for his sanity at this point as the system will be in the 140dB range(2010-cea) over much of the operating bandwidth...but we did request pictures."
post #5411 of 9841
Ok, thanks a lot, sounds like good news for me.smile.gif I expected the Triax to be available in an international version soon, since all other PSA subs have multiple voltage amps. But I also know of the problems Mark Seaton has to face with the 220V-version of the Submersive HP, which uses the 2,4KW model of the Speakerpower amp in the Triax and, though being announced for three years, is still not released. I'm hopeful PSA will solve these problems faster.
post #5412 of 9841
I finally got around to do some measuring. For those who don't know, i have three xv15s and one xv30f.

My four vs three for smoother response wasn't much better with the fourth. Can't do anything about acoustics of the room. All graphs are without smoothing

preaudy. tried every inch of open space. best response i get.




postaudy for somereason, i get smoother response with cross over at 150





post minidsp. This is with me only playing around with para. I actually liked the sound better with it off. I plan to play around with it again after reading the excellent write up of minidsp by neutro
post #5413 of 9841


post #5414 of 9841
This was best I could get with three.. before the fourth


post #5415 of 9841
waterfall

post #5416 of 9841
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dustcap View Post

Thanks for every answer regarding the Triax driver's foam surrounds on the last page.

But what about my second question: Does anybody know, whether there is a 220V-version of the Triax planned?


Man, I can't wait to see results of the first shootouts Triax vs. Submersive. At the moment, for me it comes to a decision between these two Behemoths. Should be a killer shootout, if it happens..biggrin.gif
I know I have been waiting to see a shootout vs the SubM, but really, the Triax should easily smoke the SubM. I don't think it is even going to be close.
post #5417 of 9841
Quote:
Originally Posted by mp5475 View Post

This was best I could get with three.. before the fourth



Your three sub response is "MUCH" better than the four sub response. What am I missing?

The waterfall tells me you have quite the sonic food fight going on in your room's acoustics.

What happens to your graphs when you apply 1/12 smoothing?

(ground plane measurements give one such hope..... only to be dashed on the rocks of reality: our room's acoustics)

-
Edited by BeeMan458 - 8/31/13 at 10:04am
post #5418 of 9841
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reefdvr27 View Post

I know I have been waiting to see a shootout vs the SubM, but really, the Triax should easily smoke the SubM. I don't think it is even going to be close.


That would be awesome if the Triax smokes the subM!
post #5419 of 9841
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackmambakila View Post

That would be awesome if the Triax smokes the subM!

Not wanting to get the cart in front of the horse, but my impression, with the addition of the "newly" engineered drivers, that's exactly what's going happen.

(I'm out on a limb here but in my experience, when ever they can, engineers love to improve their design and in my opinion, this is as good of an opportunity as any)

Nothing like a solid chance at correcting errors and omissions as in; gee, I sure wish I had done this. And now Tom has had a chance to do exactly that. In my opinion, that's every caring engineer's design dream scenario come true.

-
post #5420 of 9841
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

Your three sub response is "MUCH" better than the four sub response. What am I missing?

The waterfall tells me you have quite the sonic food fight going on in your room's acoustics.

What happens to your graphs when you apply 1/12 smoothing?

(ground plane measurements give one such hope..... only to be dashed on the rocks of reality: our room's acoustics)

-

Yeah, I know. Really disappointed.

I do get more boom though. I guess I like boomy bass;) hope minidsp can help.
post #5421 of 9841
Quote:
Originally Posted by mp5475 View Post

Yeah, I know. Really disappointed.

I do get more boom though. I guess I like boomy bass;) hope minidsp can help.

Based on your graph, I'd turn the center channel AVR levels down two or three dB. From afar, in my opinion, that would bring the right side of your graph down a tad bit and not impact the left side of the graph.

I would also find out, through separate measurements, which the "dominant" subwoofer is, and turn the gain up two or three dB. Expectedly, this will bring the left side of the graph up. You'll be surprised how, by doing what I suggest in my above, you acquire the "slight" ability to steer your graph.

From my experience, in our case, the pivot point of this dance is around the crossover setting of 80Hz.

(speakers set to small, LFE set to 120Hz, crossovers set to 80Hz)

Did you independently adjust the gain of each of the subwoofers with a sound meter? At what distance from each driver were you?

-
Edited by BeeMan458 - 8/31/13 at 10:20am
post #5422 of 9841
I have 5 bass traps and seven aqustic panels made of 4 inch rock wool. Still a lot of ringing. Can't add any more.
post #5423 of 9841
Quote:
Originally Posted by mp5475 View Post

I have 5 bass traps and seven aqustic panels made of 4 inch rock wool. Still a lot of ringing. Can't add any more.

That's some sonic food fight as we have a very live room and without any room treatments, don't have near as much ringing as you. confused.gif

I guess we got lucky.

(three 12" drivers, two stacked, both corner located with a fat leather recliner between the two locations, laminate flooring, a few throw rugs, no curtains, 12" cathedral ceiling, 15x22x10, ~3,300 cu ft with openings to a large kitchen, separate entryway leading to a dining room and hallway with bedroom and bathroom )

post #5424 of 9841
Beeman, I did separate measurements. Xv 15s gain is up at three o'clock. And had to turn down xv 30 to 130. Otherwise,things get really ugly.

The measurements are with left and right front not center.
post #5425 of 9841
Quote:
Originally Posted by mp5475 View Post

The measurements are with left and right front not center.

A suggestion, bring the whole system into the room measurement as that's how we listen.

In our case, the pecking order of influence, the primary influence is the center channel, the mains have a miniscule influence and the surrounds have, for all intents and purposes, no influence.

For information purposes, the mains are Klipsch, Epic, CF-3's with two each, in each cabinet, 10" woofers (speaker sensitivity, 100dB) and the center channel, a RC-64 II has is rated at a 99dB sensitivity.

The separate (non-stacked) subwoofer to the right of the leather recliner is the dominant subwoofer and that's the subwoofer I use to steer the left side of our graph.
post #5426 of 9841
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

A suggestion, bring the whole system into the room measurement as that's how we listen.

In our case, the pecking order of influence, the primary influence is the center channel, the mains have a miniscule influence and the surrounds have, for all intents and purposes, no influence.

For information purposes, the mains are Klipsch, Epic, CF-3's with two each, in each cabinet, 10" woofers (speaker sensitivity, 100dB) and the center channel, a RC-64 II has is rated at a 99dB sensitivity.

The separate (non-stacked) subwoofer to the right of the leather recliner is the dominant subwoofer and that's the subwoofer I use to steer the left side of our graph.

Interesting, didn't think center would be primary. i will try. thanks
post #5427 of 9841
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reefdvr27 View Post

I know I have been waiting to see a shootout vs the SubM, but really, the Triax should easily smoke the SubM. I don't think it is even going to be close.

With 1.5x cone area and 1.7x amp power it would be nothing but against the law of physics if the Triax wouldn't outperform the SubM in sheer output. But output isn't everything, crystal clear deep bass, precision and mid-bass slamm are even more important for me. In these categorys the SubM should be a very hard opponent.
post #5428 of 9841
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackmambakila View Post

So I couldn't help going back to best buy and just out of curiosity I asked the manager that always hooks me up, what kind of deal could he give me if I wanted the new Denon 4520. He made some calls and I had enough extra on me so I bought it instead of waiting for the 4311. I should be getting it around Wednesday! biggrin.gif:
Man, you could have bought mine!! I got if from AVS a few months ago. I would have made you a sweet deal.
post #5429 of 9841
Code:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reefdvr27 View Post

Man, you could have bought mine!! I got if from AVS a few months ago. I would have made you a sweet deal.

R u serious? Man I would of done that for sure if id known! mad.gif If u dont mind me asking, what setup did u have it with and how did it perform for you?
post #5430 of 9841
I've been subless since the first week of June eek.gif, I was the second to purchase Triax, I'm serioulsly thinking of getting duals now, I've always had multiples, I returned in June XV15s and XS30s so now I have none.
Guys what you reco the UMIK and miniDSP or UMIK and REW or both, I have to learn to take measurements, please help.
Cheers Jeff, thanks Neut for the link, going there now.
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