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Official Power Sound Audio Thread - Page 190

post #5671 of 9926
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Fineberg View Post

Wow. That would be my exact upgrade path. Pb12>xv15>xs30

And i thought the pb12 to xv15 was night and day. Wow!! Im intrigued now again!!!

My room is nearly identical as well. Thanks for reporting!!

He just confirmed that the gain was in the mid upper bass as Tom, myself, and others have confirmed. If you seek more mid bass slam then by all means pull the trigger. smile.gif
post #5672 of 9926
Quote:
Originally Posted by SaviorMachine View Post

So cool to see somebody else talk about this! After my experience going from a flat-response ported sub to a bow-curved sealed sub in my apartment, I think I finally get it, that thing music lovers are talking about.

It isn't harmonic distortion and it isn't group delay, it's not 'tunefulness.' It's mid bass prominence, and a declining deep bass response that gets amplified to a more normal balance level by the room itself.

The result is *a naturally balanced response in small rooms.*

Deep bass prominence in small rooms can be fun for movies but it makes music sound heavy and simple, lacking detail and lacking punch/bounce/slam/whatever-you-like-to-call mid-bass-impact. From what I've learned and what I've heard in my own setups, the classic sealed bow-curve response tends in small rooms to produce a more balanced upper-mid-deep bass level relationship. The result is more detail during high energy deep bass moments and more *fun* during mid and upper bass moments.

Or at least that's what it seems to be, to me. I'm a lay person still with all this.

Anyway I've seen a lot of decibels counting and system evaluation based on local maximums and such. I just want to mention that the sound of the classic sealed sub's response is itself a *major* selling point. Flat responses look good on paper but they only sound so-so playing music in most small rooms.

What's a small room? Let's call it a room less than 2,200 cubes. Bill Fitz would probably add that no dimension should exceed about 20' or so.

I agree if you are a music lover. However for HT being flat down to 15hz makes a big difference. Thats why its said to build your system around what your primary source content will be and the other will be secondary or not as optimal. I still think its more in the setup/sub placement than being ported or sealed. I can gurantee if you sat at my LP and I cranked up some music with heavy mid bass slam, you would feel like Cain Valasquez just got done beating on ya. smile.gif
post #5673 of 9926
Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post

I agree if you are a music lover. However for HT being flat down to 15hz makes a big difference. Thats why its said to build your system around what your primary source content will be and the other will be secondary or not as optimal. I still think its more in the setup/sub placement than being ported or sealed. I can gurantee if you sat at my LP and I cranked up some music with heavy mid bass slam, you would feel like Cain Valasquez just got done beating on ya. smile.gif

Well, maybe I wasn't clear, but I think it's actually more about whether you want a neutral response, and are in a small room. The bow-shaped FR curve's deep bass and ULF bass aren't missing or lacking in any sense, they just never rage out of control the way they will when the response is flat.

I dunno, have you heard sealed subs in your space? I'm only describing what I've heard in my own laughable-tiny apartment rooms, comparing subs of a similar class, but different alignments.

You know what's dope though?

Star Track: Inner Derpness just arrived, gotta love Amazon release day delivery biggrin.gif Excuse.
post #5674 of 9926
Quote:
Originally Posted by SaviorMachine View Post

Well, maybe I wasn't clear, but I think it's actually more about whether you want a neutral response, and are in a small room. The bow-shaped FR curve's deep bass and ULF bass aren't missing or lacking in any sense, they just never rage out of control the way they will when the response is flat.

I dunno, have you heard sealed subs in your space? I'm only describing what I've heard in my own laughable-tiny apartment rooms, comparing subs of a similar class, but different alignments.

You know what's dope though?

Star Track: Inner Derpness just arrived, gotta love Amazon release day delivery biggrin.gif Excuse.

Oh yea I herd sealed subs when I plugged the ports on my 3 XV15's. smile.gif

I definately noticed a change in FR response, but obviously the XV15 is not intended to be run sealed, so a XS15 or 30 probably still sounds different.
post #5675 of 9926
Quote:
Originally Posted by SaviorMachine View Post


Star Track: Inner Derpness just arrived, gotta love Amazon release day delivery biggrin.gif Excuse.

Which Star Trek movie is that? Amazon has some strange movies these days!..lol tongue.gif
post #5676 of 9926
Quote:
Originally Posted by brian6751 View Post

right, you may be reproducing sound in the teens but at what spl? if its not high enough to be useful, then its money wasted imo. we buy subs to listen to them, not do frequency sweeps and say "look at that, 90db at 10Hz!". you need much more spl for 10Hz to sound like 20Hz Its called the equal loudness curve

The good news, my understanding, the kids in the mixing booth (sound engineers) account for this in mixing. If you run your graph flat, to this end, you're good.
post #5677 of 9926
Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post

He just confirmed that the gain was in the mid upper bass as Tom, myself, and others have confirmed. If you seek more mid bass slam then by all means pull the trigger. smile.gif
I upgraded from the XV-15 to the XS-30 several months back. I ended up going with a nearfield placement which really allows me to take full advantage of the mid bass slam...and it now serves as a buttkicker as it shakes the heck out of my couch as well. I can't say what it will do in your room, but if it is on the smaller size, you will notice the difference. I also noticed a pleasant surprise while listening to music.
post #5678 of 9926
Quote:
Originally Posted by walke108 View Post

I upgraded from the XV-15 to the XS-30 several months back. I ended up going with a nearfield placement which really allows me to take full advantage of the mid bass slam...and it now serves as a buttkicker as it shakes the heck out of my couch as well. I can't say what it will do in your room, but if it is on the smaller size, you will notice the difference. I also noticed a pleasant surprise while listening to music.

Thats how all 3 of my XV15's are placed...The couches literally feel like they are going to fall apart.



and this is the response i get with no eq.

post #5679 of 9926
I think it would be so great if some of you guys would post some youtube videos of PSA subs. It would be great to see what they look like in people's rooms. It would also be great to get some first hand reviews like the ones out there for SVS subs and other larger companies. I know these types of videos don't show off sounds quality at all, but I think prospective buyers really like to see video demos of the products. Plus it's just cool to see a great sub blasting away!
post #5680 of 9926
Soon as my Triax comes, ima post a video biggrin.gif
post #5681 of 9926
^ Me to bro
post #5682 of 9926
So basically if I were to go with dual xv15's I would get close to the same output as one xs30.. but would have the even response throughout the room? I have one xv15 now and I love it. Just have the nulls. Except my seat which is ok for now. But I had contemplated upgrading to the one xs30. I'm guessing I will probably better off and happier saving up for the second xv15..
post #5683 of 9926
Quote:
Originally Posted by xFreshEntrailsX View Post

So basically if I were to go with dual xv15's I would get close to the same output as one xs30.. but would have the even response throughout the room? I have one xv15 now and I love it. Just have the nulls. Except my seat which is ok for now. But I had contemplated upgrading to the one xs30. I'm guessing I will probably better off and happier saving up for the second xv15..

If you're trying to decide between a single XS30 or dual XV15's; IMO dual XV15's any day of the week.

Now if you had plans to add a second XS30 down the road, then I'd say yes get the XS30. Otherwise just get another XV15 now and enjoy.
post #5684 of 9926
Quote:
Originally Posted by xFreshEntrailsX View Post

So basically if I were to go with dual xv15's I would get close to the same output as one xs30.. but would have the even response throughout the room? I have one xv15 now and I love it. Just have the nulls. Except my seat which is ok for now. But I had contemplated upgrading to the one xs30. I'm guessing I will probably better off and happier saving up for the second xv15..[/qrange

2 XV15's would have the same output as 1 XS30 from 40hz on up, but the XV15's would have around 6db more output in the 15-30hz range over 1 XS30. If you do a 1 for 1 comparison the XV15 has .5 db more output in the 15-30hz range, but the XS30 has 6db more output above 40hz and will extend deeper then the XV15. Both are great subs either way and multiples are better then 1. If your budget allows dual XS30's then go for it, however imo 2 XV15's are a better choice over 1 XS30 in most cases.
post #5685 of 9926
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post

If you're trying to decide between a single XS30 or dual XV15's; IMO dual XV15's any day of the week.

Now if you had plans to add a second XS30 down the road, then I'd say yes get the XS30. Otherwise just get another XV15 now and enjoy.

Ninja'd lol! Agree 100%...2-4 subs is where its at for smoothing a response. 4 subs can effectively smooth all room modes, 1 can not smooth any modes. At that point one must rely heavily on a eq device to smooth a response at the cost of headroom.
post #5686 of 9926
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post

If you're trying to decide between a single XS30 or dual XV15's; IMO dual XV15's any day of the week.

Now if you had plans to add a second XS30 down the road, then I'd say yes get the XS30. Otherwise just get another XV15 now and enjoy.

It will be duals anyway.. its just that dual XV15's can happen alot sooner than dual XS30's..
post #5687 of 9926
Quote:
Originally Posted by xFreshEntrailsX View Post

Just have the nulls.

It's a curse. Big or small, a room doesn't come alive until one has three subs banging away in their room. Instead of an XS30, consider two more XV15's. If the budget is not there, like myself, add one at a time.

In the end, it's all about the Benjamins and what ticket is one able to buy. Down in the trenches, where us Proles live, with an eye on future purchases, one at a time, we buy our subwoofers.

Price/performance, in my opinion, the PSA line of subwoofer hits the middle ground squarely. For the price, you can buy worse and for the price, yes, of course, you can buy better. But for an esoteric middle ground, you'd be hard pressed to find a better choice. With that in mind, one has to say, what do I want out of the deal? And without equivocation, one has to accept the reply and go with what their heart tells them to be true.

To be pithy, the rest of it is BS.

With a three subwoofer system such as the likes of three XV15's, nobody with a straight face can say, this is a dog of a system. The richest man in the world can't say that. Yes, you can buy "MORE EXPENSIVE" but you're not getting "BETTER." At reference output, better, is a graph that's not all over the map. After a decent waterfall and flat output measurements, there's nothing but ego for output.

(I can do a flat 140dB, 8% HD with 10% headroom)

eek.gif

(really?)

That sort of thing.

If acoustically flat, after 105dB, you're driving everybody out of the room but you and a few die hards.

(just saying, if I were to listen to my own advice, I'd create a subwoofer system the would comprise of one XS30 and two ancillary XS15's)

The point, buy into a system that works for you. Don't pass go, make the call today. Get what you what. Don't get what you think you "HAVE" to live with.

Jerry Doucette: "Moma Let Him Play"

-
Edited by BeeMan458 - 9/11/13 at 6:55am
post #5688 of 9926


I received my subs and have started the process of finding the best placement for them. Haven't had a whole lot of time with the move and all. I will report back once I been able to get their placement dialed in... smile.gif
post #5689 of 9926
Quote:
Originally Posted by precisi0n12 View Post



I received my subs and have started the process of finding the best placement for them. Haven't had a whole lot of time with the move and all. I will report back once I been able to get their placement dialed in... smile.gif

Sharp-lookin' setup. What speakers are those?
post #5690 of 9926
Polk RTI
post #5691 of 9926
Quote:
Originally Posted by SaviorMachine View Post

Sharp-lookin' setup. What speakers are those?

Yup. Polk Rti10s.
post #5692 of 9926
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

It's a curse. Big or small, a room doesn't come alive until one has three subs banging away in their room. Instead of an XS30, consider two more XV15's. If the budget is not there, like myself, add one at a time.

In the end, it's all about the Benjamins and what ticket is one able to buy. Down in the trenches, where us Proles live, with an eye on future purchases, one at a time, we buy our subwoofers.

Price/performance, in my opinion, the PSA line of subwoofer hits the middle ground squarely. For the price, you can buy worse and for the price, yes, of course, you can buy better. But for an esoteric middle ground, you'd be hard pressed to find a better choice. With that in mind, one has to say, what do I want out of the deal? And without equivocation, one has to accept the reply and go with what their heart tells them to be true.

To be pithy, the rest of it is BS.

With a three subwoofer system such as the likes of three XV15's, nobody with a straight face can say, this is a dog of a system. The richest man in the world can't say that. Yes, you can buy "MORE EXPENSIVE" but you're not getting "BETTER." At reference output, better, is a graph that's not all over the map. After a decent waterfall and flat output measurements, there's nothing but ego for output.

(I can do a flat 140dB, 8% HD with 10% headroom)

eek.gif

(really?)

That sort of thing.

If acoustically flat, after 105dB, you're driving everybody out of the room but you and a few die hards.

(just saying, if I were to listen to my own advice, I'd create a subwoofer system the would comprise of one XS30 and two ancillary XS15's)

The point, buy into a system that works for you. Don't pass go, make the call today. Get what you what. Don't get what you think you "HAVE" to live with.

Jerry Doucette: "Moma Let Him Play"

-

out of curiosity...for 799 shipped what would be better?
post #5693 of 9926
I know my Polks smile.gif

Nice looking setup btw!!
post #5694 of 9926
Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post

I know my Polks smile.gif

Nice looking setup btw!!

Thanks smile.gif Now i wish I could just find the time to listen to them.
post #5695 of 9926
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Fineberg View Post

Wow. That would be my exact upgrade path. Pb12>xv15>xs30

And i thought the pb12 to xv15 was night and day. Wow!! Im intrigued now again!!!

My room is nearly identical as well. Thanks for reporting!!

By no means did I want to imply that the upgrade from the PB12-NSD to the XV15 was not significant, it was........however the XV15 to XS30 was even more.......

Our content is about 75% Blu Ray Movie/Concerts and 25% Critical Music Listening.
post #5696 of 9926
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Fineberg View Post

out of curiosity...for 799 shipped what would be better?

At that price-point, better than a PSA series subwoofer......in my opinion, nothing. To get better you're going have to go up in single subwoofer price-point. But now enters personal opinion and the esoteric question of what constitutes better?

What many fail to wrap their think around, subwoofers and room acoustics, "demand" a three or four subwoofer solution. So in the case of a question, what would be better? In my opinion, another two subwoofers that cost $799.00/each would be the correct response.

(if this isn't a passion, if this isn't a hobby, my recommendation, buy a subwoofer that tickles one's fancy and develop a hobby of choice)

If I had to buy a single, budget minded subwoofer and be done with it, I'd buy a Rythmik, E15. If I were to add a single, no budget subwoofer and be done with it, I'd add a Funk Audio, 18.0C. It's all about the Benjamins.

Are subwoofers a passion, a hobby or something just to add to your Home Theater because it reads like a good idea and you really don't care?
post #5697 of 9926
Quote:
Originally Posted by majek 60 View Post

Our content is about 75% Blu Ray Movie/Concerts and 25% Critical Music Listening.

And you don't part-ta?

My idea of critical party music listening; Sammy Hagar: "Mas Tequila."

How the rest of the world sees "Critical Music Listening"

For a good time, I'll take door number one thank-you.

...tongue.gif

-
Edited by BeeMan458 - 9/11/13 at 8:38am
post #5698 of 9926
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

And you don't part-ta?

My idea of critical party music listening; Sammy Hagar: "Mas Tequila."

How the rest of the world sees "Critical Music Listening"

For a good time, I'll take door number one thank-you.

...tongue.gif

-

The system that I talk about here is our first dedicated home theater specifically for Movies/Concerts and Critical Listening (it is not designed to be a party room).

Cranking Sammy Hagar Concerts is very much on my frequent list of things to do while enjoying great bourbon and Hefeweizen............

After my band playing days my stereo system speakers were very efficient Yamaha S4115H PA Bins; cranked at 10,000 Decibels above the threshold of death! What, Watt, I can't hear you?????

Our HT system cranks loud and accurate and we are enjoying it very much.
post #5699 of 9926
Just saying, in my opinion, Home Theater is not critical listening and critical listening isn't Home Theater. One day, while in the middle of a critical listening session, I had a "what the" moment and above and beyond dialing a system in, I've never critically listened to anything since.

If someone's speaker related sound system can accurately reproduce the acoustics of Bach: "Toccata and Fugue in D minor" they never need to critically listen to anything ever again. Why? In my opinion, there's no point. I don't see critical listening as enjoyment. I see critical listening as work. I see critical listening as a way to fine sound but I don't see critical listening as a way of life.

Being retired, around these here parts we're limited to cheap whiskey and local brews such as Fat Tire, Sam Adams and Sierra Nevada but as you, enjoy them I do.

-
Edited by BeeMan458 - 9/11/13 at 10:22am
post #5700 of 9926
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

Just saying, in my opinion, Home Theater is not critical listening and critical listening isn't Home Theater. One day, while in the middle of a critical listening session, I had a "what the" moment and above and beyond dialing a system in, I've never critically listened to anything since.

If someone's speaker related sound system can accurately reproduce the acoustics of Bach: "Toccata and Fugue in D minor" they never need to critically listen to anything ever again. Why? In my opinion, there's no point. I don't see critical listening as enjoyment. I see critical listening as work. I see critical listening as a way to fine sound but I don't see critical listening as a way of life.

Being retired, around these here parts we're limited to cheap whiskey and local brews such as Fat Tire, Sam Adams and Sierra Nevada but as you, enjoy them I do.

-

Having a dedicated HT/Listening Room with great equipment and acoustical treatments including comfortable seats is a great place to go and sit in the sweet spot and listen to some great tunes..........

Much different experience than having tunes on in the Den with great equipment, adjacent to the Kitchen while preparing a great meal with the better half drinking a glass of wine.....

Perspective................

And since this is a PSA Thread, my XS30's performance is great in the dedicated room and Tom's customer service is over the top.......

Carry On!
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