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Official Power Sound Audio Thread - Page 216

post #6451 of 9943
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by craig john View Post

eek.gifeek.gifeek.gif

I can think of several reasons NOT to do this:

1. Inability to gain-match co-located, but non-identical, subs

2. Differing transient responses of sealed vs. vented/PR subs, (co-locating the subs exacerbates this issue.)

3. Headroom issues of the "lesser" sub limiting the "greater" sub.

Bottom line... I can't imagine the output or LF extension of the Trinity sub would come close to being able to keep up with the Triax. The Trinity would only hold the Triax back from its' performance potential. Worse yet, the "out of phase" nature of the response of the PR's in the Trinity would have a cancelling effect on the deepest bass output of the Triax's..

Bottom line, the Triax would likely perform *better* by itself than with a co-located Def Tech Trinity.

OTOH, a single, non-co-located Trinity could certainly be setup to augment and enhance the output of a single Triax. However, that would take some skill and the ability to measure and correct the in-room response of te two systems.

He should sell it and order a second Triax.... win win smile.gif
post #6452 of 9943
Quote:
Originally Posted by craig john View Post

eek.gifeek.gifeek.gif

I can think of several reasons NOT to do this:

1. Inability to gain-match co-located, but non-identical, subs

2. Differing transient responses of sealed vs. vented/PR subs, (co-locating the subs exacerbates this issue.)

3. Headroom issues of the "lesser" sub limiting the "greater" sub.

Bottom line... I can't imagine the output or LF extension of the Trinity sub would come close to being able to keep up with the Triax. The Trinity would only hold the Triax back from its' performance potential. Worse yet, the "out of phase" nature of the response of the PR's in the Trinity would have a cancelling effect on the deepest bass output of the Triax's..

Bottom line, the Triax would likely perform *better* by itself than with a co-located Def Tech Trinity.

OTOH, a single, non-co-located Trinity could certainly be setup to augment and enhance the output of a single Triax. However, that would take some skill and the ability to measure and correct the in-room response of te two systems.

I thought both the subs that I will have are sealed? Man this is complicated for me, I want to have both somehow until I do get another Triax. I don't want to take from the Triax and I don't want them to cancel out any waves, and i don't know how to measure. There's gotta be a way? What about the idea of putting the Triax in the sweet spot to let it take control of the room and putting the trinity behind my seats, could that work for now?
post #6453 of 9943
Yes they both are sealed however that Trinity is going to run out of steam well before the Triax...so if you calibrate them equally then the Triax will be limited to the output of the Trinity. However if your Trinity has a limiter then it may work as the Trinity will quit getting louder and the Triax will keep ramping up. Best thing to do is just try it both ways and see what works best.
post #6454 of 9943
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post

Yes they both are sealed however that Trinity is going to run out of steam well before the Triax...so if you calibrate them equally then the Triax will be limited to the output of the Trinity. However if your Trinity has a limiter then it may work as the Trinity will quit getting louder and the Triax will keep ramping up. Best thing to do is just try it both ways and see what works best.

The Trinity, is not sealed its a passive radiator design. Passive Radiators work like ports. They resonate at a certain frequencies. Honestly thought all kidding aside he might not need anymore than one Triax.
post #6455 of 9943
Quote:
Originally Posted by oneeyeblind View Post

The Trinity, is not sealed its a passive radiator design. Passive Radiators work like ports. They resonate at a certain frequencies. Honestly thought all kidding aside he might not need anymore than one Triax.

I know how passive radiators work...my mistake for not being up to speed on deftech subs.
post #6456 of 9943
When you say if I calibrate both subs equally then are you talking about level matching? I'm a little confused on something, I know that proper placement and room measuring is how you can fill in nulls and correct wave cancelations and also to find the best locations for more output or bass smoothing. I know that because my seating area is condensed I'm more interested in more output verse bass smoothing. In my sweet spot the trinity does great pressurizing the room and there doesn't seem to be much of a problem with bass smoothing at my seating area, but it does lack power in the lower ranges. If I place the Triax in the front right corner which put out the maximum output in my room then in will have full reign. Now I'm thinking if I put the trinity behind the seats in the center then it should be out of the way of the Triax and may just help with bass smoothing and chair pounding effects and not be in control of the theater/viewing side where the Triax will be in control and keep pressurised.
This is where I'm confused, if one sub is weaker then how is the stronger sub going to be just as weak? Let's say the trinity can't keep up with an explosion on a movie, wouldn't the Triax still be going like usual? I mean if I crank the volume won't they both reach there max outputs eventually regardless of differences in potential? Sorry if this is a stupid question, it's just I want to understand dual sub placement better, I know they should match I just don't understand fully why.
post #6457 of 9943
I'm just thinking if one sub is more powerful, then it can go to the front side sweet spot and take control, the lesser of the 2 could be put behind the seats where it's closer, doesn't have to be as strong due to near placement, and out of the way. Maybe this doesn't make sense at all eek.gif
post #6458 of 9943
With both the Trinity and Triax calibrated at 75db or level matched, The Trinity and Triax will be equally loud until the Trinity runs out of steam. The Triax will not be magically louder unless you calibrate it hotter then the Trinity. More sub equals more headroom, however your system will only be as loud as the weakest link. When I say that I mean clean undistorted bass...Basically in a nutt shell you will need to set the Trinity 10db or so lower then the Triax so the full potential of the Triax can be reached.
post #6459 of 9943
Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post

With both the Trinity and Triax calibrated at 75db or level matched, The Trinity and Triax will be equally loud until the Trinity runs out of steam. The Triax will not be magically louder unless you calibrate it hotter then the Trinity. More sub equals more headroom, however your system will only be as loud as the weakest link. When I say that I mean clean undistorted bass...Basically in a nutt shell you will need to set the Trinity 10db or so lower then the Triax so the full potential of the Triax can be reached.


Now I understand! smile.gif Ok so I can let the aud eq run its dual sub calibration, then change the db level of the trinity manually to offset it to where it's not being pushed as much. Here's a question, so if I did that then the Triax will off course sound much more powerful all the time and the trinity won't be over worked. Ok now when I watch movies I have the volume above reference so wouldn't that mean I already have had the trinity maxed? It doesn't distort or clip so I'm assuming i probably usually have it close to being maxed out at a regular basis. If you have both subs set at zero gain, at what point on the volume do they reach there max before there is no longer a difference in output or gain?
post #6460 of 9943
Man how loud do you watch movies? I would say if you havind heard any distortion then you should be fine level matching the subs, plus the Trinity will be a couple DB lower then what you have it now, so you will have more headroom.
post #6461 of 9943
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joshjp View Post

Man how loud do you watch movies? I would say if you havind heard any distortion then you should be fine level matching the subs, plus the Trinity will be a couple DB lower then what you have it now, so you will have more headroom.

Lol, honestly any of the new hit movies that come out that are action packed, like world war z or Star Trek, I crank above reference and they still sound clear. I play dub step music pretty loud too, I guess my sound tolerance is high from all the car audio set ups I've had in the past. Amazingly my hearing is still well above average, eyesight isn't all that well though, dang stigmatism! I pretty much like good movies to sound like blowing the average person out of their seat, and off course I'll play any new xbox games pretty loud, especially war games or monster stuff smile.gif I guess this ht stuff is a little addicting to me as I'm fixed on the intensity of feeling like I'm there in a movie and feeling the explosions and what not. Well intregrating the Triax with my trinity is probably not realistic with my knowledge on ht, the only thing I can do is try moving the trinity around to my only few options and hopefully I strike gold on something. I just don't want to go through the hassle of selling and shipping a 200lb sub, I work so much. Then ordering and waiting for another Triax when I only have one good sweet spot in my room anyways, this sucks. If I stack em atleast the trinity won't get in the way of the Triax and I could put the Triax hotter than the trinity, I just thought it'd atleast add to the power of the Triax somehow if stacked. Ima try behind my seat too, anywhere else I already know won't work.
post #6462 of 9943
Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post

I know how passive radiators work...my mistake for not being up to speed on deftech subs.

We’re counting on you bass lol.. I’m sitting here early morning sifting through threads and it seems like I’m always coming across something old or new that’s new to me. I did notice the PR thing come up last night and just about stepped in, but figured they’ll figure it out. I too didn’t know the Trinity was the PR design though.
post #6463 of 9943
Quote:
Originally Posted by steve nn View Post

We’re counting on you bass lol.. I’m sitting here early morning sifting through threads and it seems like I’m always coming across something old or new that’s new to me. I did notice the PR thing come up last night and just about stepped in, but figured they’ll figure it out. I too didn’t know the Trinity was the PR design though.

To be honest I have never taken interest to anything DT...dont know why but that brand has never appealed to me. I learn knew stuff all the time but I aleady knew about passive radiators and how they function...easpecially after reading your diy thread. Even though I post alot I do spend more time reading and sifting through information whenever I get a chance.
post #6464 of 9943
^^^ Who can remember it all? smile.gif

Hey guys, maybe a little intermission is in order in anticipation of the new Triax. yahoo! Just a few quick pics to share of our last trip up to Mount St. Helens. What you’re looking at is the theater in which they show a movie of the history and eruption of the mountain. When you walk into the theater the front wall is all closed up with reg theater style drapes and just prior to the movie starting the screen comes down in front of the drapes. So it’s just the opposite of what we experience at the theater. After the movie ends, the screen retracts into the ceiling and then the drapes open up. WOW! What a sight! The wall behind the drapes is all glass, and there is the mountain in all it’s glory dominating the theater. One would not think, but the mountain is like 5-6 miles away. Of course pics don’t do justice, but it’ll give you a little idea. Definitely something different than your normal theater.. as will the Triax be apposed to your normal subwoofer.






Edited by steve nn - 10/11/13 at 6:33am
post #6465 of 9943
Well being you just recently built that 12" with dual PR's, it is pretty fresh in my mind. lol I was going off of Blackmambas word when he said HIS Trinity sub was sealed.

Anyway I will be the first to admit I forget stuff, thats what boomarks are for smile.gif

Neat Pics, would like to see in person someday.
post #6466 of 9943
^^^ Yeah I save some, but in general I don’t have the need for so much info. I thought it was sealed also though like stated.
Yeah it’s a real neat sight! but when those curtains open up it really is a wow factor. I thought to myself it would be a good idea of the front being glass like that, but had no idea they actually did it.
post #6467 of 9943
Quote:
Originally Posted by steve nn View Post

^^^ Who can remember it all? smile.gif

Hey guys, maybe a little intermission is in order in anticipation of the new Triax. yahoo! Just a few quick pics to share of our last trip up to Mount St. Helens. What you’re looking at is the theater in which they show a movie of the history and eruption of the mountain. When you walk into the theater the front wall is all closed up with reg theater style drapes and just prior to the movie starting the screen comes down in front of the drapes. So it’s just the opposite of what we experience at the theater. After the movie ends, the screen retracts into the ceiling and then the drapes open up. WOW! What a sight! The wall behind the drapes is all glass, and there is the mountain in all it’s glory dominating the theater. One would not think, but the mountain is like 5-6 miles away. Of course pics don’t do justice, but it’ll give you a little idea. Definitely something different than your normal theater.. as will the Triax be apposed to your normal subwoofer.
My friend lived out there during that eruption and he said the ash was the worst part, it was all over the place and when it rained it was like slime. That is a pretty cool view. I will put that on my things to do when I start RVing it.
post #6468 of 9943
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reefdvr27 View Post

My friend lived out there during that eruption and he said the ash was the worst part, it was all over the place and when it rained it was like slime. That is a pretty cool view. I will put that on my things to do when I start RVing it.

Yeah when I walked outside that morning there was not a soul in town and everything was darkish and covered with a inch of ash! I remember thinking to myself has the end of the world come? pretty scary stuff to wake up to. wink.gif

EDIT> Oh! There is a herd of mountain sheep over on the hillside, but you have to have a telescope or vernaculars to see them.
post #6469 of 9943
Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post

To be honest I have never taken interest to anything DT...dont know why but that brand has never appealed to me. I learn knew stuff all the time but I aleady knew about passive radiators and how they function...easpecially after reading your diy thread. Even though I post alot I do spend more time reading and sifting through information whenever I get a chance.

I like the def tech SR 8080BP rear surrounds though, they go well flush against the rear side walls and have been great for movies. Im not into ther towers or centers at all. The lil supercube subs are cool for limited space, maybe even computer setups but other than that i like bowers and wilkins sound quality better, along with Salks and klipsch high end lines, and i would love to have the power of JTRs! Where im at right now is Id like to stay where im at and get the most use of what I have, meanwhile im building my credit so that I could get a deal on a nice house, then Build a dedicated Ht room that would be made the rite way smile.gif i wanna start stashing away money all through next year so that ill be ready to get a house once my credit is up there. Ive been a cash person all my life so ive recently just started on building credit. Hopefully within 2 years i can have a nice house bought and a bad ass theater made biggrin.gif
post #6470 of 9943
Quote:
Originally Posted by steve nn View Post

^^^ Who can remember it all? smile.gif

Hey guys, maybe a little intermission is in order in anticipation of the new Triax. yahoo! Just a few quick pics to share of our last trip up to Mount St. Helens. What you’re looking at is the theater in which they show a movie of the history and eruption of the mountain. When you walk into the theater the front wall is all closed up with reg theater style drapes and just prior to the movie starting the screen comes down in front of the drapes. So it’s just the opposite of what we experience at the theater. After the movie ends, the screen retracts into the ceiling and then the drapes open up. WOW! What a sight! The wall behind the drapes is all glass, and there is the mountain in all it’s glory dominating the theater. One would not think, but the mountain is like 5-6 miles away. Of course pics don’t do justice, but it’ll give you a little idea. Definitely something different than your normal theater.. as will the Triax be apposed to your normal subwoofer.





[/quote


Wow that is an impressive view and an awesome setup!
post #6471 of 9943
I am not saying DT is bad, just seem a bit pricey imo for what you get. Its all a matter of preference, thats why so many brands exist. smile.gif
post #6472 of 9943
Quote:
Originally Posted by steve nn View Post

^^^ Yeah I save some, but in general I don’t have the need for so much info. I thought it was sealed also though like stated.

It was my fault. If I remember correctly, the trinity has four passive radiators. Despite knowing this, in error, I suggested stacking the Trinity on top of the Triax. This whole confusing thing is my fault and if it will help, I'll volunteer for "Dog House" duty.

...
post #6473 of 9943
Im just going to try different combinations of sub placement once i get the triax and whatever ends up getting the best results ill keep. Hopefully it wont end up being a pain but they r heavy so i know ill be tired when im done
post #6474 of 9943
Hehe, "vernaculars." Crazy view Steve, mega-cool smile.gif
post #6475 of 9943
It's all good Bee! I know I’m not and others don’t seem to be nit picky.cool.gif

Glad you enjoyed it Savior, Black and sat vvv cool.gif
Edited by steve nn - 10/11/13 at 10:32am
post #6476 of 9943
Quote:
Originally Posted by steve nn View Post

^^^ Who can remember it all? smile.gif

Hey guys, maybe a little intermission is in order in anticipation of the new Triax. yahoo! Just a few quick pics to share of our last trip up to Mount St. Helens. What you’re looking at is the theater in which they show a movie of the history and eruption of the mountain. When you walk into the theater the front wall is all closed up with reg theater style drapes and just prior to the movie starting the screen comes down in front of the drapes. So it’s just the opposite of what we experience at the theater. After the movie ends, the screen retracts into the ceiling and then the drapes open up. WOW! What a sight! The wall behind the drapes is all glass, and there is the mountain in all it’s glory dominating the theater. One would not think, but the mountain is like 5-6 miles away. Of course pics don’t do justice, but it’ll give you a little idea. Definitely something different than your normal theater.. as will the Triax be apposed to your normal subwoofer.

Very cool pics! cool.gif
post #6477 of 9943
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackmambakila View Post

Im just going to try different combinations of sub placement once i get the triax and whatever ends up getting the best results ill keep. Hopefully it wont end up being a pain but they r heavy so i know ill be tired when im done

Thats the best thing you can do. There is no standard imo for sub placement since all rooms react differently. Hince why I spent weeks measuring, moving, measuring, listening, moving...its a lengthypropcesss but well worth it when the setup comes together.
post #6478 of 9943
Quote:
Originally Posted by steve nn View Post

It's all good Bee! I know I’m not and others don’t seem to be nit picky.cool.gif

Based on the conversation, I was feeling a whole lot guilty for missing the mismatch of the passive radiator/sealed subwoofer thingy in my recommendation and due to pricing of a second Triax, it's not realistic to say; sell the Trinity and buy a second Triax.

(yes, I read about not having the time to box up and sell the Trinity)

As a forward thinking suggestion, when there's time, how about selling the Trinity and buying a XS30 for nearfield placement to the MLP? In my opinion, a nearfield placement of a XS30 would compliment, as opposed to detract from the Triax's output.

(anybody is welcome to correct me on my above)

-
Edited by BeeMan458 - 10/11/13 at 9:09am
post #6479 of 9943
Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post

Thats the best thing you can do. There is no standard imo for sub placement since all rooms react differently. Hince why I spent weeks measuring, moving, measuring, listening, moving...its a lengthypropcesss but well worth it when the setup comes together.

I think thats why i get confused, everytime i research there are no rite or wrong answers until the person actually trys out their possible combinations and locations, one will never know. I guess instead of stressing i should just wait until it gets here, then put the traix in the sweet spot, calibrate it, see how it sounds, then ill add the trinity and move it to different locations and see where it will be out of the way of the triax but add to bass smoothing at the same time. I think thats what I should probably do, rite? smile.gif
post #6480 of 9943
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

Based on the conversation, I was feeling a whole lot guilty for missing the mismatch of the passive radiator/sealed subwoofer thingy in my recommendation and due to pricing of a second Triax, it's not realistic to say; sell the Trinity and buy a second Triax.

(yes, I read about not having the time to box up and sell the Trinity)

As a forward thinking suggestion, when there's time, how about selling the Trinity and buying a XS30 for nearfield placement to the MLP? In my opinion, a nearfield placement of a XS30 would compliment, as opposed to detract from the Triax's output.

(anybody is welcome to correct me on my above)

-

Dont sweat it beeman, so far all of your advice has been rite and has helped improve my setup dramatically. As for the trinity, id like to get a 2nd triax but ive spent $50k cash setting up my bedroom this year, so i promised myself to take a break from spending more on it and just finalize and enjoy what i have so that i can start saving to buy a house. Plus next month i have $2000 to pay when i pick up all my preordered xbox one gear so want id like is to somehow place these 2 subs where i can enjoy them for now along with my setup but at the same time i dont want to put the trinity anywhere where it would take away from the triax.
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