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Official Power Sound Audio Thread - Page 286

post #8551 of 9896
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmunster2 View Post

Just wondering if this may be part of my problem (see post about auto shutoff). When you say initially set to -8db, are you talking about the level setting in the receivers menu, or adjusting the gain knob on the sub, so that the reciever reads it as -8? I'm not sure what you are adjusting when you refer to the sub trim level, is this the gain knob or the receivers level setting?
Thanks

As D-bone pointed out I am referring to AVR sub trim. When I set my XV-15's amp gain at 1:30-2:00 and then run calibration, Ypao sets my Sub trim -8. I then bump my sub trim up to 0(or a better way to think of it is 8db hot), which sounds the best with HD Cable, Pandora, Internet Radio, or any compressed form of audio. Now If I pop in a Blu Ray the subs are way hot, so I pull the AVR sub trim back to -3. That being said once I run calibration I never touch the amp gain, only adjust the sub trim. Again I shoot for -8 on initial calibration so I have up to 8db of adjustment in the AVR sub trim without going past 0 or positive. Also if your AVR trim is below -5db it can mess with auto on.

The point to all this(hopefully I am doing a better job explaining this time) is, if you set the PSA sub amp gain around 12:00, the avr calibration will be at or around 0(atleast this is where it is on my setup), Which is what the standard procedure is. the problem with that is if your bass sounds weak with compressed audio sources(HD cable, Pandora., Internet Radio)then you have to boost the sub trim into the positive range which can and most likely will clip the signal before reaching reference level (0) on the master volume.


The way you have it now should work the best with multiple sources. If the bass is too hot on a blu ray back it down -3 in the AVR. You will have to play around and find the sweet spot.


Sorry not trying to sound like a broken record lol. Hopefully this makes more sense.
post #8552 of 9896
Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post


Easy Bear, we are also helping him setup his XS30, which is relevant to this thread. smile.gif

Nothing wrong with a bit of off topic discussion while sorting out issues. tongue.gif

You misunderstood me....I took that he was asking why room correction set his subwoofer level so low....my point was that we are bass freaks and it always does....hence "we are in the subwoofer forums", sorry my meaning was not clear :)

 

YPAO set my sub level much lower than where it sounded good to me, could barely tell it was on.

post #8553 of 9896
Quote:
Originally Posted by bear123 View Post

YPAO set my sub level much lower than where it sounded good to me, could barely tell it was on.

Was this before or after running REW?

Even with XT32/SubEQ HT, above setting speakers to small and crossovers to 80Hz, I find the receiver gets things a bit stupid. But with the aid of a sound meter, pink noise and the PEQ function on the back of our subwoofers, we're able to EQ a decent measured, 1/6th smoothing applied, graph and because of this extra effort, weak bass created by running XT32 is much more noticeably improved.
post #8554 of 9896
Quote:
Originally Posted by bear123 View Post

You misunderstood me....I took that he was asking why room correction set his subwoofer level so low....my point was that we are bass freaks and it always does....hence "we are in the subwoofer forums", sorry my meaning was not clear smile.gif

YPAO set my sub level much lower than where it sounded good to me, could barely tell it was on.

I understood you, bear. smile.gif


To add to the topic: for movies, I run my subs about 5 db hotter than the MultEQ XT setting. For Spotify and CDs, I bump the subs to 8 db hotter and set reference level to 10 (or -10 in some AVR menus as I understand it). I have (2) XV-30f's in a dedicated room.
post #8555 of 9896
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post


Was this before or after running REW?

Even with XT32/SubEQ HT, above setting speakers to small and crossovers to 80Hz, I find the receiver gets things a bit stupid. But with the aid of a sound meter, pink noise and the PEQ function on the back of our subwoofers, we're able to EQ a decent measured, 1/6th smoothing applied, graph and because of this extra effort, weak bass created by running XT32 is much more noticeably improved.

Unfortunately I do not have subwoofer eq capability at this point.  Just need to wait until I allow myself to order mini dsp and the umik 1 mic for rew.

 

I do look forward to checking in room response before and after eq, and also experimenting with running my old sub nearfield to see if it improves response over 30Hz(it probably doesnt go much lower :)).

post #8556 of 9896
Quote:
Originally Posted by bear123 View Post

Unfortunately I do not have subwoofer eq capability at this point.  Just need to wait until I allow myself to order mini dsp and the umik 1 mic for rew.

Well, here's to sooner than later.
post #8557 of 9896
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post


Well, here's to sooner than later.

My tax refund is giving my savings a much larger than expected boost due to my wife being in school.  So it may be sooner rather than later :)

post #8558 of 9896
Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post

As D-bone pointed out I am referring to AVR sub trim. When I set my XV-15's amp gain at 1:30-2:00 and then run calibration, Ypao sets my Sub trim -8. I then bump my sub trim up to 0(or a better way to think of it is 8db hot), which sounds the best with HD Cable, Pandora, Internet Radio, or any compressed form of audio. Now If I pop in a Blu Ray the subs are way hot, so I pull the AVR sub trim back to -3. That being said once I run calibration I never touch the amp gain, only adjust the sub trim. Again I shoot for -8 on initial calibration so I have up to 8db of adjustment in the AVR sub trim without going past 0 or positive. Also if your AVR trim is below -5db it can mess with auto on.

The point to all this(hopefully I am doing a better job explaining this time) is, if you set the PSA sub amp gain around 12:00, the avr calibration will be at or around 0(atleast this is where it is on my setup), Which is what the standard procedure is. the problem with that is if your bass sounds weak with compressed audio sources(HD cable, Pandora., Internet Radio)then you have to boost the sub trim into the positive range which can and most likely will clip the signal before reaching reference level (0) on the master volume.


The way you have it now should work the best with multiple sources. If the bass is too hot on a blu ray back it down -3 in the AVR. You will have to play around and find the sweet spot.

Sorry not trying to sound like a broken record lol. Hopefully this makes more sense.

When you say back the trim down, with MCACC you can't actually EQ the sub, would you just turn down the volume of the sub then?
post #8559 of 9896
Quote:
Originally Posted by jer181 View Post

When you say back the trim down, with MCACC you can't actually EQ the sub, would you just turn down the volume of the sub then?

Yes, he means "turn down the volume of the sub" in the speaker settings. He is not talking about changing the EQ settings that MCACC set, just the sub trim level in the AVR's speaker settings.
post #8560 of 9896
Just out of curiosity, do most people here have there gain around the 2 o'clock - 3 o'clock position? Also does the phase control on the sub come into play only when you have a 5.1, 7.1, etc... and not just a 2.1 system?

Also is there a way to tell if you have pass nulls or peaks without having the proper measuring equipment such as REW or an SPL meter?
post #8561 of 9896
Quote:
Originally Posted by jer181 View Post

Just out of curiosity, do most people here have there gain around the 2 o'clock - 3 o'clock position? Also does the phase control on the sub come into play only when you have a 5.1, 7.1, etc... and not just a 2.1 system?

Also is there a way to tell if you have pass nulls or peaks without having the proper measuring equipment such as REW or an SPL meter?

My XV15 is in the front left corner of my 23x16 room and I have the gain on the sub set to 1:00ish and Audyssey XT set the sub level to -3db, which is my target to avoid LFE/Sub out clipping that can happen when the trim is above 0db. I use Audyssey Dynamic EQ and have more than enough bass at all master volume levels.

The phase control comes into play no matter how many speakers you have in your system. Most times there is little audible difference at the MLP when changing the phase, and most subs should be set to "0" or 'normal"...... Mine is.

As for nulls or peaks without test equipment, I guess you could find a sweep test tone and use a SPL meter, but that is like surgery with a chainsaw. Let your ears be the final judge, because it's your system, and you have to like it, not us or REW. smile.gif
post #8562 of 9896
Quote:
Originally Posted by bear123 View Post

You misunderstood me....I took that he was asking why room correction set his subwoofer level so low....my point was that we are bass freaks and it always does....hence "we are in the subwoofer forums", sorry my meaning was not clear smile.gif

YPAO set my sub level much lower than where it sounded good to me, could barely tell it was on.

Ahh I see....Thanks for clarifying.
post #8563 of 9896
Opinion of the forum. after several discussions with Tom im leaning heavily dual XS30 OVER dual XS15...

problem is with the Bigger XS30 im down to two places to put them. end of story. with the smaller XS15 i had 4 choices.

iv talked the wife into using the XS30 as end tables:).(so end tables will be sold and she will get a new cocktail table of her choice....

but i have no other wiggle room. or very little... the XS15 could be used next to end tables or front next to speaker or behind chair at front door.

my question. does anyone have a similar set up( both sides of listening position).

thanks-

2100cf. open to kitchen and hall.

*
*
*
*
post #8564 of 9896
Sell the end tables and add the XS30's = Winning!

That will be a awsome setup imo!! Tom knows his stuff...couldn't agree more with his suggestion!! smile.gif
post #8565 of 9896
Quote:
Originally Posted by mercury View Post

Opinion of the forum. after several discussions with Tom im leaning heavily dual XS30 OVER dual XS15...

problem is with the Bigger XS30 im down to two places to put them. end of story. with the smaller XS15 i had 4 choices.

iv talked the wife into using the XS30 as end tables:).(so end tables will be sold and she will get a new cocktail table of her choice....

but i have no other wiggle room. or very little... the XS15 could be used next to end tables or front next to speaker or behind chair at front door.

my question. does anyone have a similar set up( both sides of listening position).

thanks-

2100cf. open to kitchen and hall.

Having the XS30s as end tables sounds like a great idea. After all, their opposing drivers cause almost no vibration even at high SPL levels. But here is where reality takes over. Each room is different. You don't tell a subwoofer where it needs to be placed. The subwoofer does. And if Murphy has any say, and Murphy will, the best spot(s) aesthetically to place a subwoofer will coincide precisely with the worst possible sound.

In other words, doing a sub crawl is mandatory in finding the best and worst subwoofer locations, and let the chips fall where they may.
post #8566 of 9896
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsrussell View Post

Having the XS30s as end tables sounds like a great idea. After all, their opposing drivers cause almost no vibration even at high SPL levels. But here is where reality takes over. Each room is different. You don't tell a subwoofer where it needs to be placed. The subwoofer does. And if Murphy has any say, and Murphy will, the best spot(s) aesthetically to place a subwoofer will coincide precisely with the worst possible sound.

In other words, doing a sub crawl is mandatory in finding the best and worst subwoofer locations, and let the chips fall where they may.

Agreed! However looking at the pics, nearfield "should" work well.
post #8567 of 9896
Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post

Agreed! However looking at the pics, nearfield "should" work well.

Welcome back, basshead!! Nearfield positioning should indeed work, and looking at the photos I have high hopes it will. Still ... Murphy is a SOB. smile.gif
post #8568 of 9896
Hey guys! I have a idea and was wondering if yall think it would be worth it or not? What do yall think about setting up a thread that we can state our opinions and suggestions on, dealing with the PSA line of products (triax, xv15, xs30 so on and so forth).
That way if someone is looking into buying one of these subs, we can point them to this particular thread. There they can easily read through each of our opinions with out having to spend a month reading through this entire thread. It would be a good reference point, what do yall think?
post #8569 of 9896
OK, still playing around with placement of my XS30s, and when I was running some test tones down in the 10hz-15hz range I noticed a clicking sound coming from one of my woofers. Then when I put it up in the 20-25 range I still noticed it. Anybody have this problem?
post #8570 of 9896
I completely agree. I'm looking at xs30 pair right now but it's hard reading this many pages. I'm trying to use search but most of the time it doesn't narrow things down well enough.
post #8571 of 9896
What are you wanting to narrow down?
post #8572 of 9896
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

What are you wanting to narrow down?

X2

Imo just shoot Tom a email and he will narrow it down for ya. smile.gif
post #8573 of 9896
I've actually been in touch with him. I'm going duals over a single pb13 because quite frankly I can't see dropping an extra $2000 when maybe I can recoup some $ from the sale of my pb13
post #8574 of 9896
Quote:
Originally Posted by LowellG View Post

OK, still playing around with placement of my XS30s, and when I was running some test tones down in the 10hz-15hz range I noticed a clicking sound coming from one of my woofers. Then when I put it up in the 20-25 range I still noticed it. Anybody have this problem?
I had the same problem with my XV15, the reason in my case that it was happening was, my AVR was setting the sub at -13 when I ran YPAO. All I had to do was adjust the gain to where it fell within the -7 - 0 range and the issue was solved. Ever since I did that it's been smooth sailing.
post #8575 of 9896
Basshead,

I believe he's referring to my idea of having a compressed version of this thread for people to view our thoughts on each subs, without the hassle of browsing the entire thread.
post #8576 of 9896
Yes that would definitely help. I know a triax thread exists but haven't seen an xs30 thread
post #8577 of 9896
Quote:
Originally Posted by bwinders View Post

Yes that would definitely help. I know a triax thread exists but haven't seen an xs30 thread

As a suggestion, if you think there will be enough interest in discussing XS15/XS30, start at thread.
post #8578 of 9896
Sounds good to me. Worst case. Mods will merge em
post #8579 of 9896
Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post

As D-bone pointed out I am referring to AVR sub trim. When I set my XV-15's amp gain at 1:30-2:00 and then run calibration, Ypao sets my Sub trim -8. I then bump my sub trim up to 0(or a better way to think of it is 8db hot), which sounds the best with HD Cable, Pandora, Internet Radio, or any compressed form of audio. Now If I pop in a Blu Ray the subs are way hot, so I pull the AVR sub trim back to -3. That being said once I run calibration I never touch the amp gain, only adjust the sub trim. Again I shoot for -8 on initial calibration so I have up to 8db of adjustment in the AVR sub trim without going past 0 or positive. Also if your AVR trim is below -5db it can mess with auto on.

The point to all this(hopefully I am doing a better job explaining this time) is, if you set the PSA sub amp gain around 12:00, the avr calibration will be at or around 0(atleast this is where it is on my setup), Which is what the standard procedure is. the problem with that is if your bass sounds weak with compressed audio sources(HD cable, Pandora., Internet Radio)then you have to boost the sub trim into the positive range which can and most likely will clip the signal before reaching reference level (0) on the master volume.


The way you have it now should work the best with multiple sources. If the bass is too hot on a blu ray back it down -3 in the AVR. You will have to play around and find the sweet spot.


Sorry not trying to sound like a broken record lol. Hopefully this makes more sense.

Basshead, please look at my post on the previous page, I am having an issue with the auto-shut off powering the sub off for about 5 seconds, but then powering back up immediately .
I have a new yamaha advantage Rx-a730 , Since you mentioned Yao I assume you have a yamaha also- do you have a problem with. You rxv powering down in the auto mode? I also have an 830 and it does the same thing. Been talking with Tom V and we have tried everything imaginable and can't find a fix. Tom was good enough to send a whole new amp and the same thing keeps happening. Does anybody else have a new advantage and if so, is your xv15 working ok with it?
Thanks much.
post #8580 of 9896
Sorry , my post may be a little confusing-the problem is with the xv15 not powering down , this has happened with both of my Adventage 730/830. Receivers.
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