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Official Power Sound Audio Thread - Page 290

post #8671 of 9932
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gov View Post

Seriously thinking of replacing my perfectly good single Epik Phoenix with dual XV15's. Do the XV15's with the base offer any real world advantages over just the feet? I will be putting them on medium thick carpeting.
Also, what advantages will two XV's offer over a single ported 18" Epik Phoenix?
Thanks

The performance between the base and non-base versions are identical. I always recommend going with the non-base versions unless you fall in love with the style of the base simply because the price/performance ratio is better. The carpet won't affect the performance....the sound waves are way too long.

I don't have any hands on with the phoenix and never saw any measurements for it so we may be reduced to guesswork for the most part. I'm not even 100% sure which model that was....single 18, 600w, dual 4" ports, about a 22" cube.....sound close?

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio
post #8672 of 9932
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Vodhanel View Post

The performance between the base and non-base versions are identical. I always recommend going with the non-base versions unless you fall in love with the style of the base simply because the price/performance ratio is better. The carpet won't affect the performance....the sound waves are way too long.

I don't have any hands on with the phoenix and never saw any measurements for it so we may be reduced to guesswork for the most part. I'm not even 100% sure which model that was....single 18, 600w, dual 4" ports, about a 22" cube.....sound close?

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio

Thanks for the response Tom. Here are some specs I have on the Phoenix for reference.

Phoenix.pdf 1616k .pdf file
post #8673 of 9932
Well, we know the cone area, the rated amp power, the enclosure size, and the porting---and that someone knows how to pump up the product...."legendary enclosures..."...smile.gif

Have you ever looked inside? Did they 90 degree the porting?

How large is your room and are there large openings to other areas of the home?

Also, which receiver and speakers are you using in the system?

I'm sure there will be potential benefits going with dual XV15s but I'm not so sure you would consider them anything akin to a "day / night" type of upgrade.

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio
post #8674 of 9932
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Fineberg View Post

Or is it???

In my case, it could go either way. tongue.gif
post #8675 of 9932
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

In my case, it could go either way. tongue.gif
No although lately people are giving you a hard time everywhere. I get you. And have no issues with you me friend smile.gif
post #8676 of 9932
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Fineberg View Post

No although lately people are giving you a hard time everywhere. I get you. And have no issues with you me friend smile.gif

Thanks. I know we're cool. I can't believe the number of people lately who think kicking over unsolicited online fights is how one is suppose to get along with others and in doing so isn't dragging a thread off topic as they continue with out of TOS, personal attacks.

In my case, my goal, try and stick to the high road, ignore detractors as much as reasonably possible, continue to learn what I can and share what I'm able.

-
Edited by BeeMan458 - 2/9/14 at 12:12pm
post #8677 of 9932
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Vodhanel View Post

Well, we know the cone area, the rated amp power, the enclosure size, and the porting---and that someone knows how to pump up the product...."legendary enclosures..."...smile.gif

Have you ever looked inside? Did they 90 degree the porting?

Yes, port tubes do not 90 to the best of my recollection

How large is your room and are there large openings to other areas of the home?

Room is about 17' X 18' X 8' opened to a kitchen of about the same size. Also open to a foyer as well, with high ceiling.

Also, which receiver and speakers are you using in the system?

Denon 4311 (using internal amps and XT32 engaged)
Ascend Acoustics Sierra Towers w/ center channel. Ascend Acoustics HTM-200 surrounds
XT32 sets crossover at 90hz for center, 100hz for mains and also surrounds (all speakers run small)


I'm sure there will be potential benefits going with dual XV15s but I'm not so sure you would consider them anything akin to a "day / night" type of upgrade.

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio

Questions answered above, thanks!
post #8678 of 9932
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gov View Post

Questions answered above, thanks!

Interesting on the porting. Unless I'm missing something that would put the tuning around 28hz. Then they use close proximity to the floor to artificially extend the "loading' so to speak and get a slightly deeper tune. This has problems though as sharp curves like this for the air flow = turbulence. I'd guess most of it would be masked but it shows up in measurements. Been there and tried that in many variations..smile.gif I remember back in the 1990s I had a large cylindrical DIY sub with a single 12"(id) port down firing. It took a lot of trial and error but I eventually found a certain size "cone" (modified gas funnel actually) helped with this quite a bit. I never really pursued it as Polk had some sort of patent on it iirc.

The 4311 has SUB EQ HT so that will go a long way in optimizing dual subs in your room. With careful placement you will almost certainly get smoother, more even bass coverage at the seating positions with dual subs. I'd say the XV15s will offer a bit deeper extension with more impact in the 15-25hz range. The mid and upper bass is tough to guess as there is just no real data on the phoenix. I can't see the dual XV15s being any less potent here though...more power, more cone area, more enclosure volume, etc. If I had to guess I'd say you will be looking a bit more output across the board (15-80hz for example). With dual subs (and sub eq ht) I would also expect the overall sound quality to be improved somewhat.

You're starting with a pretty strong sub there so I wouldn't describe this as a huge "day/night" thing. But I would be surprised if you didn't notice improvements across the board(extension, output, overall sound quality).

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio
post #8679 of 9932
Port tuning on the Phoenix is reportedly around 17hz
post #8680 of 9932
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gov View Post

Port tuning on the Phoenix is reportedly around 17hz


Dual 4s in roughly 4.4 cu-ft....max length about 18" or so?

That;s upper 20s...27.5hz or so.

As I mentioned though they appear to be counting on the close proximity of the port openings to the floor to "extend" the port loading a bit.

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio
post #8681 of 9932
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Vodhanel View Post

Dual 4s in roughly 4.4 cu-ft....max length about 18" or so?

That;s upper 20s...27.5hz or so.

As I mentioned though they appear to be counting on the close proximity of the port openings to the floor to "extend" the port loading a bit.

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio

Interesting...what about amp tuning, does that come into play at all?
Thanks for all your valued responses!
post #8682 of 9932
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gov View Post

Interesting...what about amp tuning, does that come into play at all?
Thanks for all your valued responses!

That can affect the frequency response a bit but older analog amps like this have limitations in this area. With the "floor loading" we've discussed I'd guess good output down to 20hz or even a bit below isn't out of the question.

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio
post #8683 of 9932
I'll be picking up a third Triax this Wednesday if all goes to plan, I won't have it forever as my brother will eventually buy it from me when he buys a home but curious to see what it can do with the 2 other Triaxes.
post #8684 of 9932
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Vodhanel View Post

That can affect the frequency response a bit but older analog amps like this have limitations in this area. With the "floor loading" we've discussed I'd guess good output down to 20hz or even a bit below isn't out of the question.

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio

I get usable output to 16hz in my room. With dual XV15's do you think I might get even lower?
post #8685 of 9932
Quote:
Originally Posted by jarretc View Post

I'll be picking up a third Triax this Wednesday if all goes to plan, I won't have it forever as my brother will eventually buy it from me when he buys a home but curious to see what it can do with the 2 other Triaxes.


New order or buying the one used one I saw out there?

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio
post #8686 of 9932
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Vodhanel View Post

New order or buying the one used one I saw out there?

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio

Used smile.gif
post #8687 of 9932
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gov View Post

I get usable output to 16hz in my room. With dual XV15's do you think I might get even lower?

I would say a bit lower. Once you get below the tuning point of a vented subwoofer it becomes tough to predict how it will acoustically couple to a given room environment. I'd guess 14hz, 11-12hz best guess.

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio
post #8688 of 9932
I would like to hear from anyone that has gone from one ported SW to dual XV15's.

Thanks
Edited by Gov - 2/9/14 at 5:24pm
post #8689 of 9932
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gov View Post

I would like to here from anyone that has gone from one ported SW to dual XV15's.

Thanks

I went from a DIY 15" JBL, to one paradigm pdr10, to a polk psw505, to dual 505's, to dual XV15's, and then to triple XV15's. Dual XV15's were more then enough output wise, I only added a third to knock down a 32hz peak. Imo dual subs are sooo much better then a single when properly placed. It took me a couple weeks off and on to properly integrate them, but when I did, my subwoofer system came to life!!
post #8690 of 9932
Once you go duals you will never go back.

I don't even have optimal placement and the second is THE biggest upgrade I have ever made in my HT
post #8691 of 9932
Quote:
Originally Posted by Billy p View Post

...its only when I come here I feel inadequate ...biggrin.gif ....

+100! biggrin.gif

Quote:
Originally Posted by LowellG View Post

Good point of view and I agree. I think I am just going to stay ignorant for awhile and just enjoy all my new toys. biggrin.gif

That pretty much sums up where I'm at right now. wink.gif

Quote:
Originally Posted by mercury View Post

+++++++++Update++++++++++

End tables have been sold. new home for dual XS 30's await......tongue.giftongue.gif

*
*

Sweet! smile.gif

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Fineberg View Post

ive only used it once. And I find I always click on the posts to see what that dumb dumb posts lol

Glad to know I'm not the only one who does that...lol
post #8692 of 9932
Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post

...but when I did, my subwoofer system came to life!!

When that happens, it's such an amazing experience:

animated-happy-new-year-fireworks.gif

(now that's what I'm talking about!)

It's one of those things one has to experience first hand to realize, that's where you were wanting to go in the first place.
post #8693 of 9932
Your drawing looks like my set up except I have XS15's in a small room (1650). Talk about energizing a room with bass! I am in the process of buying bass traps and some reflectors when they come I will run REW with the UMIK 1 and see what I need to do. Right now I am satisfied with my bass. The Front projector and a 96" screen which drops in front of the 55" plasma is next!biggrin.gif
post #8694 of 9932
Quote:
Originally Posted by labman1 View Post

Your drawing looks like my set up except I have XS15's in a small room (1650). Talk about energizing a room with bass! I am in the process of buying bass traps and some reflectors when they come I will run REW with the UMIK 1 and see what I need to do. Right now I am satisfied with my bass. The Front projector and a 96" screen which drops in front of the 55" plasma is next!biggrin.gif


Id like to see a few pics if you have. my panny plasma (65inch) has had the 7 blinks kiss of death power supply issue for over a year. i move the plug at the outlet till it clicks and it comes on. iv'e been waiting for it to blow so i can upgrade to an 80"...lol but a projector and pull down screen sounds interesting.....
-

pics-. open, closed, projector, seating....if you can-

thanks-
post #8695 of 9932
Can someone point me in the dirrection of a RCA Y-Adapter 2-Female to 1 Male @ monoprice or comparable in price-. been looking but work at 3 AM so im out of time.....

thanks-
post #8696 of 9932
Quote:
Originally Posted by mercury View Post

Can someone point me in the dirrection of a RCA Y-Adapter 2-Female to 1 Male @ monoprice or comparable in price-. been looking but work at 3 AM so im out of time.....

thanks-

Like this?

http://www.monoprice.com/Product?c_id=102&cp_id=10218&cs_id=1021803&p_id=663&seq=1&format=2
post #8697 of 9932
Quote:
Originally Posted by mercury View Post

Can someone point me in the dirrection of a RCA Y-Adapter 2-Female to 1 Male @ monoprice or comparable in price-. been looking but work at 3 AM so im out of time.....

Amazon: "RCA Y-Adapter 2-Female to 1 Male"
post #8698 of 9932
Hi Guys,

Just want to make a quick comment regarding test tones and our products(most/all HT subwoofers really).

Please be *very* careful with steady state tones like sine waves. I know these are available in REW and the use of these tones can quickly deform a voice coil. The coil will over heat and deform. Usually this will manifest itself as an audible "tick" as the driver moves in/out a good amount. Technically this stuff isn't covered by warranty so again, be very careful. My advice would be to avoid steady state tones completely and focus on low level(low volume) sweeps to see FR, decay and things of that nature.

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio
post #8699 of 9932
Honestly Tom,

I was watching the Sound of Music with my wife and the VC just melted. biggrin.gif
post #8700 of 9932
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Vodhanel View Post

Hi Guys,

Just want to make a quick comment regarding test tones and our products(most/all HT subwoofers really).

Please be *very* careful with steady state tones like sine waves. I know these are available in REW and the use of these tones can quickly deform a voice coil. The coil will over heat and deform. Usually this will manifest itself as an audible "tick" as the driver moves in/out a good amount. Technically this stuff isn't covered by warranty so again, be very careful. My advice would be to avoid steady state tones completely and focus on low level(low volume) sweeps to see FR, decay and things of that nature.

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio

What about sine sweeps and bursts like are whats found here.. http://www.audiocheck.net/soundtestsaudiotesttones_index.php

I don't have REW or a mic to test stuff.. but i was actually just about to run some tones with my XV-15 in a couple different positions and just sit in my MLP to see what i like most. I currently am having a null at about 50hz from my MLP right now.. I know from running sine sweep tones a couple times and it just vanishes at about 50hz. but is ever present at 60hz and 40hz..

I know its been re-iterated over and over agian that i wont get the "best" from my sub without measuring. but i don't have the time or equipment currently.. down the road sometime i'll get there.. but as long as it makes me smile then i'm sure i'll sleep at night..

Thanks Tom for all you do..
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