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Official Power Sound Audio Thread - Page 291

post #8701 of 9861
Personally, IMO, if you don't have the means to fix it, why worry about it. If it sounds good to you then let sleeping dog's lie. As soon as you locate a problem; it will drive you crazy till you fix it. smile.gif
post #8702 of 9861
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Vodhanel View Post

Hi Guys,

Just want to make a quick comment regarding test tones and our products(most/all HT subwoofers really).

Please be *very* careful with steady state tones like sine waves. I know these are available in REW and the use of these tones can quickly deform a voice coil. The coil will over heat and deform. Usually this will manifest itself as an audible "tick" as the driver moves in/out a good amount. Technically this stuff isn't covered by warranty so again, be very careful. My advice would be to avoid steady state tones completely and focus on low level(low volume) sweeps to see FR, decay and things of that nature.

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio

Thanks for the heads up. I haven't used REW yet. I've got all the necessary equipment, but my family (kids + wife) haven't given me a day off by myself. So, I haven't bother to do these tests. However, I might be bugging you in the next couple of weeks about this. Hope you don't mind giving me a few pointers.
post #8703 of 9861
Quote:
Originally Posted by bass addict View Post

Personally, IMO, if you don't have the means to fix it, why worry about it. If it sounds good to you then let sleeping dog's lie. As soon as you locate a problem; it will drive you crazy till you fix it. smile.gif

I'm just missing a small area in mid bass... I'm not super critical... but i figure if i can move my sub to one of the other 2 locations i am able to put it.. WAF compliant .. and get that bit i'm lacking then cool .. if not i'm perfectly fine putting it back.. biggrin.gif
post #8704 of 9861
Quote:
Originally Posted by xFreshEntrailsX View Post

I'm just missing a small area in mid bass... I'm not super critical... but i figure if i can move my sub to one of the other 2 locations i am able to put it.. WAF compliant .. and get that bit i'm lacking then cool .. if not i'm perfectly fine putting it back.. biggrin.gif

If you can move the sub around; that opens up some options.

Do you have access to REW? biggrin.gif
post #8705 of 9861
Quote:
Originally Posted by bass addict View Post

If you can move the sub around; that opens up some options.

Do you have access to REW? biggrin.gif

Everyone has access to REW if they have some sort of computer.. I don't have a mic or available funds to drop on a mic right now..
post #8706 of 9861
Quote:
Originally Posted by xFreshEntrailsX View Post

Everyone has access to REW if they have some sort of computer.. I don't have a mic or available funds to drop on a mic right now..

It was an inside joke. smile.gif

That being said; you can get a nice mic for under a hunsky (and even less if you don't care about having it calibrated). Valentines Day is coming up. No reason for the women to get all the cool gifts. biggrin.gif
post #8707 of 9861
Quote:
Originally Posted by bass addict View Post

It was an inside joke. smile.gif

That being said; you can get a nice mic for under a hunsky (and even less if you don't care about having it calibrated). Valentines Day is coming up. No reason for the women to get all the cool gifts. biggrin.gif

I like your thinking
post #8708 of 9861
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Vodhanel View Post

Hi Guys,

Just want to make a quick comment regarding test tones and our products(most/all HT subwoofers really).

Please be *very* careful with steady state tones like sine waves. I know these are available in REW and the use of these tones can quickly deform a voice coil. The coil will over heat and deform. Usually this will manifest itself as an audible "tick" as the driver moves in/out a good amount. Technically this stuff isn't covered by warranty so again, be very careful. My advice would be to avoid steady state tones completely and focus on low level(low volume) sweeps to see FR, decay and things of that nature.

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio

I had a sine sweep test noise app on my iphone that would clear out a room... I could imagine what would happen to a 15" woofer... yikes.

post #8709 of 9861
What I did to test max spl with rew was play some heavy bass content at max volume by turning it up until my spl meter would not increase spl, then turn the avr down 3_db, and run a sweep with REW. Since sweeps are much more demanding then source content, I figured 3db would provide enough cushion. If I remember correctly I contacted Tom about this and he said that was ok. Tom chime in if I am wrong. Also as Tom pointed out, becareful with Test tones. I would not play a 15hz tone at max levels for a duration of time. Quick way to smoke a voice coil.
post #8710 of 9861
Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post

What I did to test max spl with rew was play some heavy bass content at max volume by turning it up until my spl meter would not increase spl, then turn the avr down 3_db, and run a sweep with REW. Since sweeps are much more demanding then source content, I figured 3db would provide enough cushion. If I remember correctly I contacted Tom about this and he said that was ok. Tom chime in if I am wrong. Also as Tom pointed out, becareful with Test tones. I would not play a 15hz tone at max levels for a duration of time. Quick way to smoke a voice coil.

I wont play anything at max level .. 1: i don't want to damage anything.. 2: thats pretty loud ..biggrin.gif
post #8711 of 9861
In other news.... my (2) XS30'S have shipped:D:D:D:D:D
post #8712 of 9861
Quote:
Originally Posted by xFreshEntrailsX View Post

I wont play anything at max level .. 1: i don't want to damage anything.. 2: thats pretty loud ..biggrin.gif

You are not going to damage anything...your sub has a soft limiter to protect itself. You would have to play a sine wave for a decent length of time to damage a voice coil. Tom is just forwarning you guys to not get carried away. I would too if I was in his shoes smile.gif
post #8713 of 9861
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Vodhanel View Post

1)just a FYI----remember that the gain control on a powered subwoofer is not a volume control. It is more accurate to think of the gain control as adjusting the input sensitivity on the subwoofer amplifier. There is no "correct" setting except the setting that allows the subwoofer to produce the output needed for proper calibration. This could be 1/3rd, 1/2, 3/4....really anything on the gain knob rotation. A higher setting on the gain control does *not* indicate a subwoofer is working "harder" or the subwoofer amp is producing more output. The higher gain setting increases the subwoofer amp input sensitivity so you get louder bass for a given input signal.

2)You can think of the phase control as a time delay or distance setting Technically it isn't exactly the same but close..smile.gif If your receiver does an auto speaker setup including distance settings for all speakers and subwoofers you should be able to leave the phase at *0*.

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio

That makes total sense. When I first had set up the system and then done calibration, the bass was there, but not very pronounced. (like it was getting a weak signal). After I turned the gain up to 3 o'clock, the bass came alive. Not overpowering, just a perfect blend for movies and music.

Thank you for the advice.
post #8714 of 9861
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gov View Post

I would like to hear from anyone that has gone from one ported SW to dual XV15's.

Thanks

I went from a SVS PB12-plus to dual XV-15s and I really like having the dual configuration. Music has been a real treat with the duals and movies are great as well. I do however listen almost exclusively through the analog connections as opposed to hdmi. There is a definite difference with music through analog but about the same with movies.
post #8715 of 9861
Y'all just need to fire up Audyseey and be done with all this craziness!
post #8716 of 9861
Quote:
Originally Posted by bass addict View Post

Honestly Tom,

I was watching the Sound of Music with my wife and the VC just melted. biggrin.gif
Was that the movie or recent TV version cool.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Vodhanel View Post

Hi Guys,

Just want to make a quick comment regarding test tones and our products(most/all HT subwoofers really).

Please be *very* careful with steady state tones like sine waves. I know these are available in REW and the use of these tones can quickly deform a voice coil. The coil will over heat and deform. Usually this will manifest itself as an audible "tick" as the driver moves in/out a good amount. Technically this stuff isn't covered by warranty so again, be very careful. My advice would be to avoid steady state tones completely and focus on low level(low volume) sweeps to see FR, decay and things of that nature.

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio

Tom;
It's really how "hot" you have the gain running, along with the duty cycle, right?
I've ran all sorts of "stuff" thru my subs, including these Saturn V clips, which I had dialed quite low to not damage my woofers by physical slap.
Clip#2

Clip#4

There was a per-existing mechanical failure that was covered under warranty, it was identified by running these clips, but not caused by them.
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1149303/usul-4-x-ae-ib15-line-array-ib-sub-mike-r-ht#post_18304851

In this clip it's the square "sine" wave that has people concerned about damaging the subwoofer.

Here is a snippet of the thread where I found those clips 7/9/08:


(by avsmember "ecox")
Via a search for "wav" in the "Subwoofers, Bass, and Transducers" avsforum, found member "ecox" posted download-able links to Saturn V launch sounds.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...7#post14254077

Quote:


As a gift to the bassheads here, I made .wav files of the two chapters, and they are here:

The 1st one: http://rapidshare.com/files/12845421...V_no2.zip.html



The 2nd one: http://rapidshare.com/files/12845421...V_no4.zip.html



Fair warning -- if your sub cannot go below 20hz with gusto, you'll likely either not hear and feel much of anything, or you'll blow up your sub. If your sub can go that low, then make sure things are bolted down and secure all over your house. Play these at your (and your sub's and your house's) own risk.




 

post #8717 of 9861
Quote:
Play these at your (and your sub's and your house's) own risk.

Just saying, anything that comes with the above warning, has no need to go through my system. I'm the kind of personality, if a sign says there's a hungry, angry lion male on the other side of the steel door, I'll take the other door.

(depending on the way the door swings......maybe a little peak)
post #8718 of 9861
Kitteh approval...



post #8719 of 9861
Ahh gotta luv the XV w/ base!!
post #8720 of 9861
Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post

Ahh gotta luv the XV w/ base!!

i love the way it looks... i was thinking that when i eventually get my second XV-15 .. I would get one without the base and stack it on top...
post #8721 of 9861
Quote:
Originally Posted by xFreshEntrailsX View Post

i love the way it looks... i was thinking that when i eventually get my second XV-15 .. I would get one without the base and stack it on top...

A suggestion, if you feel that strongly about a stacked second XV15, if I might, I'd like to suggest considering the addition of a XV30f.

... biggrin.gif

Mmmmmmmmm.........XV30f.........Mmmmmmmmm.

..................................wink.gif

XV30f_front_onoff_1024x1024.png?v=1368840444
post #8722 of 9861
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

A suggestion, if you feel that strongly about a stacked second XV15, if I might, I'd like to suggest considering the addition of a XV30f.

... biggrin.gif

Mmmmmmmmm.........XV30f.........Mmmmmmmmm.

..................................wink.gif

XV30f_front_onoff_1024x1024.png?v=1368840444

I could just put that on top of my XV-15.. 0_o
post #8723 of 9861
"Room is about 17' X 18' X 8' opened to a kitchen of about the same size. Also open to a foyer as well, with high ceiling."

Tom or anyone else, what about replacing the Phoenix with a XS30? Base on my room being open, should I even consider a sealed subwoofer?
post #8724 of 9861
Quote:
Originally Posted by xFreshEntrailsX View Post

Kitteh approval...





Reminds me of this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-8jBR7Wq6oY

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio
post #8725 of 9861
Cat Moves.

...biggrin.gif
post #8726 of 9861
Quote:
Originally Posted by xFreshEntrailsX View Post

What about sine sweeps and bursts like are whats found here.. http://www.audiocheck.net/soundtestsaudiotesttones_index.php

I don't have REW or a mic to test stuff.. but i was actually just about to run some tones with my XV-15 in a couple different positions and just sit in my MLP to see what i like most. I currently am having a null at about 50hz from my MLP right now.. I know from running sine sweep tones a couple times and it just vanishes at about 50hz. but is ever present at 60hz and 40hz..

I know its been re-iterated over and over agian that i wont get the "best" from my sub without measuring. but i don't have the time or equipment currently.. down the road sometime i'll get there.. but as long as it makes me smile then i'm sure i'll sleep at night..

Thanks Tom for all you do..


I'll check the link asap. Usually a sweep is fine as long as it is LOW level. The idea here is to use the lowest level possible under the noise floor of the room. A steady state tone like a 15hz sine wave for example....the tendency seems to be to see the cone move and think...."cool, I want it to move MORE" and then you end up increasing the volume more and more over 20-30 seconds(or longer) and the voice coil turns red hot and the former(or coil windings) deform in some manner. If the use of any steady state tone is needed it is best to keep the volume as low as possible(just about the noise floor of the room), limit the output to a few seconds, and give the subwoofer ample time to cool down between checks....30 seconds for example.

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio
post #8727 of 9861
Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post

What I did to test max spl with rew was play some heavy bass content at max volume by turning it up until my spl meter would not increase spl, then turn the avr down 3_db, and run a sweep with REW. Since sweeps are much more demanding then source content, I figured 3db would provide enough cushion. If I remember correctly I contacted Tom about this and he said that was ok. Tom chime in if I am wrong. Also as Tom pointed out, becareful with Test tones. I would not play a 15hz tone at max levels for a duration of time. Quick way to smoke a voice coil.

Largely depends on the duration of the sweep, the quicker the better.

I don't have much hands-on with REW so its tough to make specific recommendations. Something from 200hz to 10hz? 5-10 seconds?

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio
post #8728 of 9861
Quote:
Originally Posted by xFreshEntrailsX View Post

I wont play anything at max level .. 1: i don't want to damage anything.. 2: thats pretty loud ..biggrin.gif

No one should take this as a "challenge" of course but when using our products in their intended manner---with music or film material---the risk of damage is minuscule. Nothing with audio is ever 100% bulletproof but our products are darn close. The problem is when you send a signal to the subwoofer that our protection schemes/DSP programming won't recognize as a "threat".

In other words, don't worry about cranking up the bass levels with your favorite music or War of The Worlds..smile.gif

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio
post #8729 of 9861
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtbdudex View Post

Was that the movie or recent TV version cool.gif
Tom;
It's really how "hot" you have the gain running, along with the duty cycle, right?
I've ran all sorts of "stuff" thru my subs, including these Saturn V clips, which I had dialed quite low to not damage my woofers by physical slap.
Clip#2

Clip#4

There was a per-existing mechanical failure that was covered under warranty, it was identified by running these clips, but not caused by them.
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1149303/usul-4-x-ae-ib15-line-array-ib-sub-mike-r-ht#post_18304851

In this clip it's the square "sine" wave that has people concerned about damaging the subwoofer.

Here is a snippet of the thread where I found those clips 7/9/08:


(by avsmember "ecox")
Via a search for "wav" in the "Subwoofers, Bass, and Transducers" avsforum, found member "ecox" posted download-able links to Saturn V launch sounds.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...7#post14254077

Quote:


As a gift to the bassheads here, I made .wav files of the two chapters, and they are here:

The 1st one: http://rapidshare.com/files/12845421...V_no2.zip.html



The 2nd one: http://rapidshare.com/files/12845421...V_no4.zip.html



Fair warning -- if your sub cannot go below 20hz with gusto, you'll likely either not hear and feel much of anything, or you'll blow up your sub. If your sub can go that low, then make sure things are bolted down and secure all over your house. Play these at your (and your sub's and your house's) own risk.




 



The failure was likely caused by these files. During the QC process here we push all the products to FULL output levels and max excursion repeatedly . During this they go through a very stringent "buzz/rub" type of checks. Nothing ships with any type of mechanical noise. It is possible that an unusually hard knock/drop in shipping can cause something like this but that would be quite the long shot----especially with truck freight(usually any damage with truck freight is of the catastrophic variety)

A good rule of thumb is....if these files are entities on to their own(not part of a song or film) and also come with warnings about "blowing up your subwoofer"....I would stay very clear.

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio
post #8730 of 9861
Quote:
Originally Posted by xFreshEntrailsX View Post

Kitteh approval...




Great pics! smile.gif
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