Power Sound Audio Discussion Thread! - Page 14

Look on page 13 of your (power sound audio user's manual) it talks about how to get the most out of your phase setting. I found it beneficial in the overall sound.

I finaly put in a THX movie, Avatar. WOW is all I can say. what a differance over my old system. I could here dishes and glasses ratteling in the kitchen.

Ahhh yes, the owner's manual. Who woulda thought I will give it a try, thanks! Also, did you try the THX sound clip that is at the end of the credits on Avatar? When the mushroom/flower looking deals pop out, my entire house was shaking!!

I was under the impression that "ALL" current movies are mixed to THX standards. ???

I'm sure your right BeeMan, My thought was if it's listed as THX, the movie was intended to be awsome for sound.
I have never ran Avatar through to the end of the credits. Thanks for the info "Walke108"
The THX symbol was at the end of the movie... I was wondering why I didn't see it at the begining.
Edited by ZOOM ZOOM - 11/13/12 at 9:27am

In the case of Avatar, I'm sure you're correct in stating the intended purpose of the soundtrack is to be an "awesome" soundtrack.

Over the months of hanging out here, I've given myself over to the darkside; setting up a reference level system.

Much appreciated...and looking forward to it!

Sneak peak...

http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/speakers/subwoofers/bravus-ii-12d-review/Audioholics%20Excel%20compilation-111012.pdf

Not to pick nits but nowhere did I see anything regarding the highly esteemed SubMersive product mix. ???

With SubMersives not being included in the spreadsheets, I smell intentional subwoofer politics.

The Seaton subs just haven't been extensively tested and posted by Josh at this point. It would be quite the stretch to imply a bias on his part.

Considering the SubMersive gets top reviews on AVS, one would think this should cause one to ponder what's what with what when being left out of the comparison mix. My opinion, data-bass.com is da bomb. My hat is off to data-bass (Josh) and their efforts. My opinion, their efforts need to be added to. The point, if intentionally, the SubMersive product mix is intentionally left out of the mix, then one doesn't have a rational comparison to the XV-15.

On one end, there are the top dogs of the bottom with my opinion, the Klipsch, 12D-RW at the top of that list. And on the other hand, at the esoteric level, one has the top dog set and at $9k, the stand alone Paradigm, Sub 2. The top dog of the high end line (really, really expensive) is arguable, the SubMersive HP or F2.

(Note: Also, the Klipsch, KW-120-THX Subwoofer is off the list.)

If there's better than the Paradigm, Sub 2, forgive me, for at $9k, each, retail, I stopped looking at the Sub 2 level.

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Edited by BeeMan458 - 11/13/12 at 3:22pm

I wouldn't give a second thought as to whether the omission is intentional or not, personally. The tests take quite a bit of time the way Josh does them, as they are quite exhaustive.

A direct comparison between the XV-15 and a SubM HP or F2 would be nice, though they are in different price and performance brackets.

Fair enough. On my part, loving what Josh has done, just saying as I'd like to go to data-bass and see test results for SubMersive subs in which to make comparisons to SVS, Hsu and Klipsch.

(The fact I'm as intimate with ID subwoofer product mixes as an NBA fan is familiar with favorite team stats, does not make me a bass head.)

+++++1

Beeman458, I think you started reading the Submersive thread about 10 posts to late...half a day or so, as this was all recently discussed and understood there. Here is the link...
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http://www.avsforum.com/t/759877/seaton-sound-submersive1/7200#post_22537936
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I consider this/the audio community very professional and jovial. Truly unique and special, being able to communicate with the owner/operators, designers and professional testers of the products we enjoy so much. The shared knowledge offered freely. No doubt respect all around...probably more than 99% of the time. Sounds like that applies here.

Thanks for your above. As I posted, I think the information posted on Data-bass is da bomb (hat is off to Josh) and I have no doubt as to the why/brevity of what Mark Seaton is doing as he's been very open as to his intent. My hat is off to Mark. In your quote, you'll see that I wasn't trying to kick over an argument and I did my best to show all of my comments were "in my opinion" as to why I think/feel what I posted. And agreeing with you regarding the many pages in the many threads, yes, one can easily miss germane posts regarding what's what with what. Please temper any criticism I post regarding Data-bass with the fact that I hold Data-bass in high esteem.

As to consumers communicating with those in the industry, yes, agreed, for the most part, they're as reachable as one can more than reasonably expect and yes, they're willing/very willing to openly communicate present/future intent. In that regard, I have no complaints. But allow my comment to stand regarding a lack, on the part of Josh (thank-you for your effort), to post test data for the SubMersive product mix so fair comparisons can be made when the test data for the XV-15 is posted.

In the quote of mine which you quoted forward, you'll note that I also noted a lack of information for the Klipsch, KW-120 THX subwoofer as I intentionally made mention of the Klipsch, 12D-RW. The point, my post was not intended to personalize the lack of SubMersives being included in Data-bass's information set but still, as a consumer of both products and information, my opinion, it's valid to make note of how SubMersive is glaringly left out/off of Josh's thoughtfully provided data-bass information set.

If my choice of words have offended, my apologies as that was/is not the intent of the post you quoted nor is that the intent of my response above.

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Edited by BeeMan458 - 11/14/12 at 6:16am

Just placed my order for a xv 15 after reading all the positive reviews. My HT room should be done in a couple of weeks. I hope it lives up to my expectations. Avs forum has been a great help. Can't wait.

The Block member function is a valuable tool.

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Maybe we should keep the Power Sound Audio Discussion Thread! about PSA and users trying to get the best performance from their subs. Just a suggestion.

If directed towards my comments, my apologies for off-topic conversation.

So, I'm no expert when it comes to reading these things, and I realize this is just a small piece of the overall review but this looks pretty good, right? Certainly nothing bad here? Getting ready to pull the trigger on that xv15.

Nothing wrong to my eyes. The performance around 10Hz and 12.5Hz in the power compression sweep does interest me in that it appears the low end roll off is much shallower than usual for a vented design. Any comment Tom?

BTW, you can't or should not compare a sealed vs vented design, especially in different price brackets. To be fair compare 4 XS-15's to a submersive.

I can understand why one shouldn't compare subs in markedly different price brackets but I can't see any problem with comparing sealed to vented designs after all the design is completely irrelevant as it's only the sound that comes out of it that matters

Vented digs deeper than sealed.

Not exactly; below tuning, a vented alignment is typically at a serious disadvantage relative to a comparable sealed box. A simple example of this is the PB12-NSD vs the SB12-NSD at 12.5Hz.

Maybe I'm not saying it right as graphs show me that vented digs deeper with less effort and have flatter graphs on the left side of the x-axis. From 40Hz > 20Hz, I see the sealed subs falling off earlier and faster than ported; 3dB vs 12dB in your stated example. How should I have posted my comment?

???

I don't see any graphs for PSA on data-bass so I'm not posting an example link.

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Edited by BeeMan458 - 11/15/12 at 11:06am

Yes, that's the advantage of a large bass reflex design. However, once you get below the tuning point of the port (for the subs we're talking about, that will usually be around 20Hz), output generally drops like a rock whereas a sealed subwoofer continues it's gradual roll off, so at some point, you'll find that the sealed sub has an advantage.

Not arguing as I see the charts and agree with your assessment but my mind is having trouble wrapping my think around that big of a drop over such a short frame of reference on the x-axis. In my way of thinking, 9dB's worth of difference is a "HUGE" amount of energy difference. My take is, the drop is so great that any benefit will be overrun by the energy offered by the higher frequencies as in, sure, the lower frequencies are there but you can't hear them because they're so faint by comparison; muddy, muddy, muddy. What this does is make me want to move to a better grade subwoofer; hurt sales.

If possible to assert, what am I missing or not understanding?

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Edited by BeeMan458 - 11/15/12 at 11:24am

You've got to think bigger to understand the implication.

If you're chasing performance at 10Hz (or below), it's pretty well assumed that you're not going to have a shortage of output at 20Hz on up (think multiple SubMs for example). However, it's generally not effective/advisable to chase 10Hz and below using ported subs.

In your example, which I exampled and discussed, you exampled a much less capable subwoofer which I don't think is capable of 10Hz and the individual who I responded to was responding to a comment regarding four XS-15's compared to another prime example subwoofer as I was comparing a single sub to a single sub of close, equal capabilities. Maybe that's where I'm getting lost, the comparing of four lesser subs compared to one or two uber capable sub.

In discussions of this kind, sometimes it's hard, not to get all lost in the fruit salad.

Fortunately fruit salad is tasty.

Moral of the story though: vented and sealed make tradeoffs. Depending on your situation, one might be more suitable than the other.