Buffalo, NY - HDTV - Page 17

Anyone here actually FALL off the roof working on your antenna system? At least there will still be some snow on the ground to cushion the impact just in case.

Those pics of those stations are definately overload to the preamp without question!
I would put the preamp/amp INSIDE where you can get at it even though it means loosing a little signal in the downlead (maybe 1 db).
Then you have access to it for installing attenuators or better yet channel filters to decrease the offending stations signal.

videobruce, thanks for the resounding answer! I appreciate everyone's input again. Now that I have a pretty good idea of what I need to do, it's just a matter of time before I'm cool as all of you!

I have a HUGE (nothing to do with the car dealer on Grand Island though that is where the problem is) problem with the 3 'U's" over in the 'foreign' country called Grand Island. Being 5 miles away and trying to pull in stations from 65 miles away in line with them is tough especially with a amp. I had the same problem with the overload you had untill I installed tunable traps for those channels. The onlt problem is they are expensive (the ones I have aren't made anymore) and are very hard to tune without the proper equipment. Youi can do it by watching the station, you need at least a SLM (signal level meter).

I've heard some rumors that ABC network recently changed the encoding format
on its HD satellite feed to the affiliates and that most of the affiliates are waiting
on ABC to get them new satellite receivers.

This suggests that only the ABC owned stations are HD now . . . is that possible?

This also suggests that WKBW will HAVE a HIGH DEF channel but no HD CONTENT
from ABC for a while.

Has anyone else heard anything.

This seems nuts -- what the heck was ABC thinking at this late date in the HD game??

Hi Greg,

Rochester's ABC WOKR and Syracuse's ABC WIXT are both owned by Clear Channel, not ABC and both have HD channels on WOKR-DT and WIXT-DT.

I've talked to the WKBW chief engineer and they will have HD and it will be soon.

http://www.rochesterhdtv.com/viewtopic.php?t=55

[quote]Originally posted by rubblerubble
[b]I really need some help here. I guess I could've posted a separate thread for this, but since you Buffalo people are familiar with the stations and conditions, I thought I should try here first. I still consider myself to be somewhat of a newbie, so bear with me, and thank you in advance.

Okay, so this house I'm in had an antenna on the roof, chimney mount. I'm 1 mile NW of the airport in the Maryvale area. Here are some pics of the antenna.

antenna1
antenna2

Based on the pics, it looks like a Radio Shack VU-120 XR, although it certainly is not 120 in boom length (at least not from the naked eye, more like 70-90). It's mounted about 4 feet from the top of the chimney, a total of 25-30 feet off the ground. It does have a single coax connection (RG6) running down into the house, then to the TV/STB (approx. 100ft). No rotor yet.

I'm trying to get good, solid signals for both analog and DTV. I'm 60 miles as-the-crow-flies to Rochester, Toronto, and Hamilton. 87 miles to Erie. Prior to playing around with a new pre-amp, I was able to get most of my locals in DTV, when I was pointed towards Colden. However, PBS and FOX were always breaking up unless I went on the roof and pointed the antenna towards Grand Island. Of course, then I'd lose CBS and NBC to breakups. I've noticed the UHF analogs suffered from general interference, which alarms me.

So, while the snow fell, I bought a Winegard 8780 pre-amp (17db VHF, 28 db UHF). I also had a cheap RCA set-top antenna. Just to experiment, I put the RCA antenna on the second floor, connected the pre-amp, ran a 100ft RG6 connection, and tried it out. I was able to get
2,4,7, 17, 29, 49, and 51 analog almost perfect! I also got 55 (Global55, Niagara Falls), 56 (MTV2, the old BOX), 12 (WICU, Erie), amongst others, with watchable clarity.

So now I'm thinking, GREAT! Just wait until I get that pre-amp on the roof! Well, last Friday, installed the pre-amp on the mast. Checked out the signals and to my dismay, it's terrible. I turned the antenna towards Toronto with the hopes of getting better analog reception, plus a shot at Toronto 1, 66. 2, 4, and 7 analog come in perfect no matter where pointed. However, DTV signals must be suffering from amplified interference because they break-up despite a strong signal. Even pointed towards the Toronto, Grand Island way, PBS DTV breaks up. Here is a breakdown and pics of what I'm seeing (keep in mind, antenna pointed towards Toronto)

5 analog - strong picture, but diagonal lines fade in and out. Quite watchable. CBC 5
9 analog - strong picture, but more diagonal lines. Somewhat watchable. CTV 9
11 analog - picture there, but look at that interference. CHCH 11
17 analog - strong picture, interference from channel 23. PBS 17
23 analog - strong picture, but strong interference from 17. UPN 23
29 analog - same as above, but stronger interference from 17. FOX 29
41 and 47 - seems like a picture could be there, but way too much interference from somewhere, probably 17 and/or 23. GLOBAL 41 OMNI 47

In fact, channel 17 seems to interfere with just about everything in the UHF band. It even presents itself all distorted on analog frequencies such as 32 and 34, which, will be DTV here soon.

My questions are

1) Is this multipath or interference? I don't have any tall buildings, or trees within 50 feet. Some trees scattered after that 50 feet, but all of the houses are the same height.

2) Is this the antenna? Could it be too old and run down? Is it letting in interference? The connections seem okay, but I may take it down to examine them when it gets warmer.

3) Is the pre-amp OVER-amplifying the signals? If so, then how would I be able to pull in Toronto, Rochester, or Hamilton while reducing the locals so they won't conflict?

4) Would a new Winegard or Channel Master (near fringe - fringe) accomplish my goals, eliminate the interference if it's not the current antenna's problem?

I know, there's a lot to read here, but any help is critical right now. Obviously, pulling in the DTV is paramount to analog, so I'd be satisfied at eliminating VHF entirely and getting a good yagi for UHF.

OK WELL WITH MY 22+YEARS IN ANTENNAS I CAN TELL YOU THIS. YOUR ANALOG UHF CHS ARE ALL BEING OVERLOADED BY THE STRONGEST ONE ON THE ISLAND CH 17. YOU ALSO HAVE ALL THE REST 29/15/23 MIXING AND OVERLOADING THE AMP. YOUR NOT GOING TO GET 60 MILES WITH THAT SETUP W/O PROBLEMS.FIRST OF ALL THAT AMP HAS VERY LOW INPUT. IN OTHER WORDS IT WILL OVERLOAD BADLY. YOU WOULD BE BETTER WITH A 17OR 19 DB GAIN ON UHF IN YOUR AREA.IM IN LOCKPORT AND THE ISLAND IS 6 MILES WSW OF ME I HAVE A WINEGARD AC-4990 17.5 DB GAIN ON A 7' PARABOLIC ON A 72' TOWER. I GET NO OVERLOAD ON DIGITAL ,BUT I DO GET OVERLOAD ON ANALOG IF LOOKING AT THEM. I CAN HOWEVER WATCH ERIE PA DIGITALS AND ANALOGS BY LOOKING AROUND THE ISLAND.
YOUR VHF PROBLEMS ON ANALOG LOOK TO ME LIKE CABLE TV BLEEDING INTO YOUR ANTENNA.
DID YOU HAVE THAT W/O THE AMP? OR COULD YOU NOT SEE 5-9-11 W/O? SOMETIMES THE V/U AMPS WILL OVERLOAD SO BAD YOU'LL BLEED INTO VHF BUT NOT VERY OFTEN.
BEING YOUR N/W OF THE AIRPORT I DONT THINK ITS COMMING FROM THERE. BESIDES I HAVE ANTENNAS ON HOMES UP THERE THAT LOOK RIGHT THRU THE AIRPORT AND GET 9+11 GREAT CH 5 A BIT LESS(THEY ARE LOWER POWER) THEY ALSO GET 41+47 19/25
YOU REALLY NEED A ROTOR BAD!!!!THE DTV OUTTA TORONTO IS GONNA BE TUFF FOR YOU GUYS. UNLESS YOU WANNA INSTALL A PARABOLIC UHF ANTENNA DONT EXPECT IT.
YOU MIGHT GET IT IF YOU INSTALL A LONG WINEGARD YAGI AND A LOWER GAIN WINEGARD AMP ON GOOD NIGHTS. ANYHOW YOU DEFINITLY NEED 3 THINGS. #1 A ROTOR #2 AN AMP WITH NO MORE THAN 17-19 DB GAIN ON UHF #3 A BETTER ANTENNA OR EVEN BETTER SEPERATE VHF/UHF ANTENNAS. THE R.S. HAS NO DIRECTIVITY WORTH A DAM SO YOU NEED AN ANTENNA THAT LOOKS TIGHT AT THE STATION. PARABOLICS ARE BEST. BIG ASS YAGI'S ARE 2ND. IF YOU NEED MORE HELP PLANNING THIS THING E-MAIL ME I SELL THIS STUFF CHEAP AND HAVE TONS OF IT. IF YA WANNA SEE WHAT I RUN YOUR WELCOME TO STOP AT MY SHOP IN LOCKPORT AND SEE. ON THE HOUSE I HAVE A MODIFIED WINEGARD PROSTAR YAGI +AMP ITS 170" LONG WAS 100" I EXTENDED IT.ALSO THE HIGHER THE BETTER FOR UHF ANTENNAS . VHF TOO. YOU MAY DO WELL WITH UHF BUT YOUR DEFENITLY GETTIN SOME VHF INTERMIXING AND THAT LOOKS TYPICAL OF CABLE LEAKING. DO NOT USE THAT ATTENUATOR UNLESS YOUR PUTTING IT BETWEEN THE AMP AND ANTENNA. DO NOT PUT IT IN SIDE OR BETWEEN THE AMP+POWER SUPPLY OR YOU'LL BLOW THE POWER SUPPLY. THEY DONT PASS VOLTAGE. THE SIGNALS ARE OVERLOADING THE PREAMP AT THE ANTENNA.YA COULD TRY PUTTING THE AMP IN THE HOUSE. THIS WILL LOWER THE GAIN USAGE AND ADD ALOT OF NOISE. BUT,IT MIGHT LOOK BETTER FOR A QUICK FIX. ANYHOW I HOPE I HELPED. IF YA WANNA CHAT YOU CAN E-MAIL ME CALL ME ON THE PHONE OR STOP BY FOR SOME IDEAS.
TAKE CARE GOOD LUCK.
RICH LOCKPORT 434-9216 RWANTSAT@LOCALNET.COM

Hey Rich.........stop shouting!!

(turn off that damn 'caps lock' button)

Hey Rich, I may just stop by your store in the coming weeks. I think maybe a Winegard yagi is what I might go with. Of course, that extra 12-14 miles to Toronto that I have to cover in Cheek. really drops the already weak DTV 66 signal. I may just have to wait for them to increase signal strength someday.

Attenuator was a no-go. Brought down the antenna today and checked the connections. All looks okay, although it definitely is that damn Radio Shack. I took off the pre-amp (anyone looking to buy a Winegard 8780 cheap?) and 5/9/11 are slightly worse off, but my UHF is back without overload. Once I figure out where I'm going to drill some holes, the rotor goes up next.

The input from all of you has been great so far. We've got a great DTV community here.

Must be nice, I still have a foot of snow on my roof - no antenna work for me

hey if ya comedown bring your winegard amp i might be able to give you some trade in value on a lower gain uhf version.
if ya need rotors i have them too both remote controlled and standard. i also have rotor wire. I have some used winegard yagis i had on a commercial project i had going id sell really cheap.still real good shape.
call me first at the shop 434-9216
Sorry about all the yelling didnt even realize i wa doing it!!!!
Rich.
B.t.W. Tornoto dtv were in this evening as well as erie pa and Rochester.
Warmer weather caused a little tropo inversion

Anybody get any test patterns from KB yet?

BTW - I can vouch for Rich W - he' s helped me with my sytem - Rich - I have not been able to see anything out of Toronto yet - the damn tree's still are affecting my reception too - but raising the antenna did help!

Dan

Rich,

What digital channels did you pick up from Erie?

I got Toronto and Rochester last but no Erie.

Any folks in Buffalo area picking up Toronto1 on channel 15 out of Hamilton. I'm just curious if they're using something directional for transmitting since I pick them up at 80% strenth on average from 45 miles to the NW

Now that WKBW is apparently testing color bars on 7.1 and 7.2 (very sporadic, mind you), I just had a thought / question.

Does anyone know if WNY will have any need for a VHF antenna after 2007? I mean, I've read some articles saying that some stations around the country may revert back to their VHF frequency, but what does that mean for us in WNY? How have you prepared? Are you banking on UHF only? Do you have any insider info on what our stations might do?

My dish 6000 receiver has always mapped channel 29 digital as 29-1 and 29-2. Now all of a sudden it's mapping only one channel as 14-1. Does this mean they are no longer using the hd subchannel with color bars, or is this a problem with the way the 6000 is operating? Channel 7 is mapping as 7-1 with color bars and 7-2 with regular programming. I wish everyone would get on the same page as far as mapping is concerned. I can't keep up with what digital channel number to look for when tuning in the locals. Is this a problem with my Dish receiver or a problem with the way the stations are broadcasting information?

The engineer at WUTV said they would stop doing bars on 29.1
at some point . . . it would seem they have stopped.

Last night I had to clear 29.1 out of the memory of my Samsung SIR-T 165
cuz it keep searching for an image on 29.1 . . . most annoying.

and YES, I wish the broadcasters would all get their PSIP / mapping issues together.

and WHERE is WKBW?????

Where did it go. I get no signal.
Is WKBW low power right now or off-air.

It appears they are only testing. The transmitter is being turned on/off, nothing now in the early evening. I left my Receiver on all day on ch-38 and sure enough it mapped in as ch7-1 and 7-2, so I know i'm able to receive it at my location.

Yes!! WKBW is testing and they are what people are saying "going in and out".
7-1 I get colored bars and Dolby Digital 2.0 audio.
7-2 Is EDTV.
This happen at 12:00pm. I'm getting a very good signal with no drop outs.

Hope we can get Stephen Kings Mini-series next week in HD

I'm getting 9 bars on my Samsung Reciever in the Stouffville, Ontario area.
Hopefully they will be fulltime soon with HD. No dropouts at my location either.

Hmmmm,

Thanks forthe timely tip, "stjefrey"

Alas, no WKBW-DT at 12;30 PM here, 6 miles from their transmitter.

I'll leave the receiver on chan 38 all day and see what happens

I just noticed my reciever suddenly remapped WKBW-DT to 38-1 and 38-2.
I'm wondering what they are doing??

GregHoey,

They keep going in and out. Keep checking. 1:10pm

New Cable Guy,

Your right! I'm now getting them on 38-1 and 38-2

So far here in Niagara Falls ON, I'm only getting about 9 dB for WKBW-HD.

Turn up the juice.

Sorry if I jump a little off topic here, but for fellow GTA folk-where are you getting your STBs from?
Being located at College/Landsdowne what type of antenna would i need.
feel free to p.m. if this is too O.T.
Thanks!

Hey, 9db is just fine. You should be able to recieve a picture with a signal as low as -18db. The FCC website says WKBW-DT has an STA to broadcast around approx. 350KW for now which is roughly half-power. WUTV-DT is only broadcasting at 35KW and they come in great. Digital signals seem to be way more efficient than analog ever was. An analog signal at -18db would look pretty snowy.

For digital television a solid 10 dB or better (at least for my FusionHDTV card) is usually necessary to receive a picture.