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The Once and Future Theater - Page 6

post #151 of 1066
Thread Starter 
I'm tired. Whatever Captain I had in me is gone.

My friend Travis was here this morning. We got all the wood inside and sorted,
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then my Dad came through town and helped. We had time to build most of one wall.
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At that point, I ran out of nails.

What?! Ran out of nails?! On the first day?

Well, I still have a box of 2000 nails I haven't even opened. Unfortunately, the framing nailer they're designed for is unusable. I bought it used from a private seller on Amazon (back in March), and hooked it up for the first time today. It promptly leaked all the compressed air from my tank right out through the leaky seals. sadface. So we built what we could from the nails I had on hand, and I'll have to locate a rebuild kit for my "new" Stanley Bostitch N80SB-1 Framing Stick Nailer.
post #152 of 1066
Thread Starter 
Chuckling at my own stupendous sense of humor about my clever picture with the pile of wood outside, I invited my dear wife to come admire my joke. She puts down the kindle and comes to see how funny I am. "That's kinda cute, right?" I say. She smiles. "It is funny: somebody else thinks you need a haircut too."

Which one of us is the funny one, I ask you!
Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGmouthinDC View Post

Haircut and a Shave?
post #153 of 1066
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cheezit73 View Post

Hi Fred, I am mostly a lurker here but reading this reminded me of when I won my Grafik Eye off of Ebay. I totally know how you feel, you will love it, what model did you get? I was lucky enough to find a great deal on Ebay for the RS232 control module so now I can even control each of the individual zones intensities not just scenes its awesome! Good luck on your drywall stack!

-Brent
Thanks for posting Brent. I'm always glad to see that someone else is following along.

I got a used GRX-3506. I would have enjoyed the RF features of the newer RadioRA models, but I will be very happy with this one. I still need to figure out how to get a custom engraved seeTouch wallstation. I am planning on putting the main unit in the closet and wiring the seeTouch into the theater so as to keep the look more sleek and minimized. There's just so many details in the Lutron catalog - like, what's the difference between an "insert" and a "non-insert" panel? I tried to speak with the lighting folks at Lowes about it, since the Lutron website lists them as retailers, but they know less about it than I do and the catalog on the desk doesn't even have Grafik Eye components in it...
post #154 of 1066
Thread Starter 
Oh, I almost forgot - you can't have a work day without at least one unexpected trip to the store, right?

Today's unplanned adventure came thanks to a $200 Duo-Fast DF-27 .27 Caliber Powder Actuated Tool. I have given up on waiting for my boss's buddy - who volunteered to lend my his Ramset. Instead I bought the next-to-last 27 caliber (red loads capable) tool on the shelf at the local Lowes. I figure I can get most of my money back on craigslist or eBay when I'm done. The first one worked exactly 9 times before the trigger jammed or something - I think maybe the reload/reset mechanism wouldn't catch at the end of it's travel and reset the pin. In any case, that one went back to the store. Once I had waited for about 10 minutes for someone to bring a ladder to get the last one off the top shelf, we were back in business.

So, I wouldn't say it gets my highest recommendation, but the red charges certainly does the job! (most of the time)
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post #155 of 1066
You can also rent those things fairly cheap - you just have to stay focused and get the sill plate done in a day to get your money's worth out of the rental. Will also save you the hassle of selling the tool onward.

They also make these things called concrete nails where you can drive them in without predrilling. Now, your hammering skills have to be good to get them fully seated without bending the nail, but hey.....get a little Captain in your first!!
post #156 of 1066
Quote:
Originally Posted by HopefulFred View Post

I just thought I'd jump back in here to say that I've been busy... ...thinking... and planning.


I got around to some more complete and careful plans. They're not entirely complete yet, but they've gotten me this far:



From this vantage you can see the new riser/stair landing, and the weird way I've been thinking about dealing with the window and stair situation.


As you may recall (probably not - I'll recap), originally in order to avoid two doors and a walkway through the theater, I moved the entrance to the rear and planned to close the whole side wall. The new rear entrance and 20+ feet length required a new pathway into the "lobby" area. I opened the wall at the foot of the stairs (documented earlier) in order to have a new doorway. To have the entrance to the theater at riser height, I had to find a way to get the outside floor up to the same height, which was the same as the second step up the stairs... so the large riser is born...


From there, the simple choice is to have a straight rear wall, from the edge of the window straight across to the foot of the stairs. This wastes a little floor space and puts the rear wall only about 2.5 or 3 feet from the back of the second row. So by pushing back the center section of wall, I get a couple extra feet in the middle of the room and a convenient "nook" to build an equipment rack. I've drawn it here with access from the foot of the stairs and a small closet door to access the back of the components. I hope to install grafik eye components in there as well as routing exhaust air through there to both move "dead vent" air out of the theater as well as provide airflow across the components.


I'd love to hear thoughts about this compromise. Also, what can I do with the awkward space by the window? The corner is only about 3.5 feet from the window, so it's not big enough for a table, which was my original hope. Maybe a built in cabinet? not sure if it's worth trying to get plumbing for a wet bar there. Also, the window is pretty low there - less than three feet from the new floor, I think. I could drop the riser off into the corner if I needed the height, but it's still a small space...


For anyone interested, I've uploaded the sketchup file to sendspace.
http://www.sendspace.com/file/xub4wv

Looks like the sendspace file has been deleted. Can you please re-up? We have a similarly shaped room and I'd love to take a look at your sketch-up file.
post #157 of 1066
Thread Starter 
strange. maybe after a couple weeks with no activity, they remove it or something. I'll upload my current version tonight. You should know, however, that other people are much better with sketchup than I am, so I may be putting things together in some kind of dumb way that will make it harder to work from. Also, I have tweaked it to include some speakers and such, so it's a little cluttered. If I have a plane version, I'll upload that, but I think the cluttered version is the only one I've got.
post #158 of 1066
Thread Starter 
post #159 of 1066
Thanks for the re-up! I couldn't get your sketch-up file to load on my mac. I'll try the PC when I get home.

Perhaps I missed it, but what are your final room dimensions?
post #160 of 1066
Thread Starter 
Right at 12 feet wide, by 9 feet tall, by either 21 or 23 feet long, depending on which section you measure. (I think - working from memory) I haven't woried too much about actual dimensions of the finished room, as I know I'll loose a bunch to treatments and such.
post #161 of 1066
Thread Starter 
I'll make no claims about my skill at framing. It's not noteworthy - but it's happening. smile.gif
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What I am sure about is my attention to detail. Let's just hope it pays off.
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Also, it's hot around here. I don't have a thermometer in the basement, but it's 92 in the ATL right now. I'm sweaty and taking a break.
post #162 of 1066
Quote:
Originally Posted by HopefulFred View Post


Also, what can I do with the awkward space by the window? The corner is only about 3.5 feet from the window, so it's not big enough for a table, which was my original hope. Maybe a built in cabinet? not sure if it's worth trying to get plumbing for a wet bar there. Also, the window is pretty low there - less than three feet from the new floor, I think. I could drop the riser off into the corner if I needed the height, but it's still a small space...

If you dropped the riser off by the window, or even maybe a little further in than the corner, maybe some other options open up. You've advanced several ideas, none of which I can think of anything better wink.gif

I actually think the resonator sounds neat, not such a bad dream in my opinion. How many people can say they have their very own Helmholtz Resonator!

If you dropped the riser off there, you could have an even lower area from which to pull cold air with the dead vent system. Would a table be more feasible with the riser not in that space? A bench under the window and a table in front. You'd have to scoot out to your right and then walk up the stairs. But then the table is kind of low in height compared to people standing on the riser, that might be weird. Also, the riser looks majestic as you have it drawn, symmetrical and all that. I'm sure you'll come up with a good idea for the area.
post #163 of 1066
Quote:
Originally Posted by HopefulFred View Post

I got a used GRX-3506. I would have enjoyed the RF features of the newer RadioRA models, but I will be very happy with this one.

I have been looking into the Grafik Eye stuff myself. Since I love lights that's part of the fun for me. I'm planning to get a QS series with wireless support. But apparently in wireless mode the wired cables don't work anymore, so kind of have to choose one or the other or plan to upgrade all the external accessories later if started wired. I've been thinking a GRX-3506 would make life easier because then I don't have to choose between wireless/wired... Choosing is always the hard part.
post #164 of 1066
Thread Starter 
Thanks for checking in Daniel. Choosing is the hardest part - and Lutron doesn't really make it easy. I figure that given the option, I'd rather be wired than wireless. So sticking with the earlier series (35xx) just means more careful planning for future needs.

The riser issue is still tough for me. As I get the are framed in (slowly, like everything else in this process) I really start to feel the "smallness" of that corner space. I'm looking into running some plumbing to put a small sink in there - maybe a space for a kegerator. I'll revisit once I get the walls all framed in.
post #165 of 1066
So.... Where are our updates? It's way to hot outside in this part of the country to blame the lack of updates on yard work or any such thing. So I'm sure you have lots and lots of progress to report, right? biggrin.gif
post #166 of 1066
Thread Starter 
HA!
post #167 of 1066
Thread Starter 
No, seriously - there will be updates....

soon? I sure hope so. I have excuses if you want them, but while they're true, they're mostly cop-outs - (out of town guests, still tending to the rental, sister with car trouble... this list goes on.)
post #168 of 1066
Thread Starter 
I have non-progress and good news. First, my sister and her lovely nearly-6-month-old baby are coming to town this weekend, bringing my brother-in-law, who has committed to helping me frame all day Sunday. I'm sure we'll get the rest of the walls up, and maybe the ceiling joists too. (cross your fingers, but don't hold your breath)

Also, my good friend Kim has pulled some library strings (she is a librarian at a "state university system of Georgia" school library) and gotten me my second bit of theoretical reading. If you don't have access to a university library, I suggest you make friends with some librarians - they're good people.

A couple months ago, I actually read (as in, not just referenced, but sat down and read - though not every single page) Acoustic Absorbers and Diffusers: Theory, Design and Application (Cox and D'Antonio). This was not much for good reading. It is, here and there, referenced as some sort of gold-standard in acoustic treatment design and construction. Well, I am not a book reviewer, but I can tell you that a) it's not fun to read ( smile.gif ) and b) extraordinarily technical. If you are not an engineer (the sort who does multi-variable calculus for fun) this is largely over your head in terms of math. While the authors claim it is application-based and practical, that's only in comparison to a purely theoretical treatment of the subject. To be honest, there is very little I read in that book that I hadn't already read in the acoustical treatments master thread - that which was new was largely useless to a DIYer. It does define the general relationships between things like wavelength and diffusor design features, or the differences between diffusion and scattering, but if you're reading the book to learn those things, you're going about this all wrong.

So, tonight I'm starting on my second book relating to home theater acoustics. I'm much more hopeful that this will be fruitful. If any of you have interest in this book, I'd be happy (and interested) to search the book for answers to your questions. Feel free to post here or send PM. Pictures or it didn't happen, right? And if you're curious, this book is a lot bigger, but still less costly than the Cox and D'Antonio - actually reasonable at less than $50, if it proves useful.

Sound Reproduction: The Acoustics and Psychoacoustics of Loudspeakers and Rooms, Floyd Toole.

Edited by HopefulFred - 8/30/12 at 6:43am
post #169 of 1066
Quote:
Originally Posted by HopefulFred View Post

I have non-progress and good news. First, my sister and her lovely nearly-6-month-old baby are coming to town this weekend, bringing my brother-in-law, who has committed to helping me frame all day Sunday. I'm sure we'll get the rest of the walls up, and maybe the ceiling joists too. (cross your fingers, but don't hold your breath)

Wow, that's nice of your BIL to volunteer to get up at 6am on a Sunday smile.gif Then again, with a 6 month old child that is probably sleeping late!

What is the plan for the ceiling joists? Are you going to sit them on top of the walls, or frame them into the walls? I noticed you have bridging in the existing first floor.

Tim
post #170 of 1066
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.Tim View Post

What is the plan for the ceiling joists? Are you going to sit them on top of the walls, or frame them into the walls? I noticed you have bridging in the existing first floor.

Tim
The plan has been to notch the bridging. The existing floor joists are 2x12, and my new ceiling joists are 2x8. Plus they'll be lower by around an inch or two. That should leave 4 inches of intact bridging at the top of each joist bay. I don't know if that's a code issue or not, but the architect friend I showed the space to didn't flinch when I said it - so I'm proceeding, unless you are very persuasive with a counter-argument.

And yes it is nice of him to volunteer. It's sort of a trade between us. I fix their clunker (driving from Atlanta to Athens on my day off - and I call it a clunker but it's not that bad, plus if it is a clinker I have only myself to blame, as I helped them pick and buy it.) and he brings his considerable building/framing experience to bear in my basement. I'm happy with the trade.
Edited by HopefulFred - 8/30/12 at 8:27am
post #171 of 1066
Nope, there's no problem with removing/notching the bridging. It's only required when you have sawn lumber over 2x12 (when's the last time you saw a 2x14?), so in practicality bridging is never really required for sawn lumber. It is a good practice though.

Tim
post #172 of 1066
Thread Starter 
Well the work-day has come and gone. There has been lots of progress in framing. My brother-in-law is both experienced and hard-working, so we got a lot done in only 5 or 6 hours. We didn't get everything done, but I'll show you later. It's too late and dark down there with all the framing in the way of the light for me to take any worthwhile pictures tonight.
post #173 of 1066
Thread Starter 
Here's what we've got - a dark room. The floodlight I bought last black Friday is blowing bulbs. Now sure what to make of that, but it means I need to use the flash, and video is pretty well impossible right now. :/


From inside the room, with the flash, you can see back to the rear wall. We've left a 40" opening for a door. Not sure what I'll actually need - any advice?


There are two small places where I haven't yet engineered a framing solution. One is just working around the drain where it goes back out to the street at the screen-end of the room. I'm not too concerned. The other is midway down the right wall, and I'm not quite sure what the best option is. I've built wall up to the problem area from each side, and need to tie them together. Based on the ceiling design and overhead floor joists, there won't be a ceiling joist to support in this area, but I need to do what I can to assure that the walls are well tied and as cleanly sound-proofed as possible. Ideas are appreciated. Let me know if there's more that you want to see - I'll take more pictures.


Happy Labor Day!
Edited by HopefulFred - 9/4/12 at 10:22am
post #174 of 1066
Thread Starter 
A couple things have come together to get me next week off from work, so I need to make the most of it. The primary reason is that we have a new puppy. Axel needs some training. I'll be home with him all next week - working on house-training and name-learning.

The secondary reason, the one that needs more planning, is that I'll be in the basement finishing my framing. That really shouldn't take more than one day to frame in the closet and tie in the walls, so I'll be doing a few other things, like setting up to run wires and load insulation.

Given the ceiling area will be chock full of joists, no batt insulation is going to fit properly. I'm thinking that a blown-in product is the best solution. I'm not sure how that works. The videos I've seen on the internet are all about blowing insulation either into attics or into fully built walls. Neither of those is what I need to do, since I don't want to build walls only to cut holes in them - though I suppose I could cut holes in the first layer and then add the second layer without too much negative impact on sound isolation. Does anyone have experience or recommendations to offer?
Edited by HopefulFred - 9/4/12 at 10:45am
post #175 of 1066
I don't think blow-in insulation is recommended because there is a possibility for too much compaction and recoupling your walls.

I know it will probably be a pain, but can you cut the batts to fit?

What a beautiful dog by the way! What breed is he?
post #176 of 1066
Quote:
Originally Posted by HopefulFred View Post

That really shouldn't take more than one day to frame in the closet and tie in the walls, so I'll be doing a few other things, like setting up to run wires and load insulation.........

Oh....... Oh no........ No no no..... He didn't really just say that did he? You never say, "That shouldn't take more than......." rolleyes.gif


Seems like when they use that blown in stuff in an open ceiling they put up some sort of netting that catches and holds the stuff up.
post #177 of 1066
Thread Starter 
Good point about compacting and recoupling - I've read that and forgotten it - definitely not what I want to do. But cutting batts is going to be a huge hassle... maybe there's another way.

And he's a pound puppy - he was found alone and riddled with ticks, so the humane society took him in. They guess he's Grate Dane and Labrador Retriever. Seems like a fair guess.
post #178 of 1066
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by J_P_A View Post

they put up some sort of netting that catches and holds the stuff up.
This is what I need! I was thinking about plastic sheeting - but that's a vapor barrier problem. If there's a net that will hold it, that's what I want.
post #179 of 1066
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by J_P_A View Post

Oh....... Oh no........ No no no..... He didn't really just say that did he?
post #180 of 1066
The product that they staple to the bottom of the joists is called "Insul-net". They will make one 4" hole per fill zone and blow in until full. then they tape the net "flap" back into position. Fairly quick and easy, but it could be pricey.

The pros use a cellulose (NOT fiberglass) that goes in with what's called a "wet pack" technique. They slightly mist the cellulose during the application so it sticks together and compacts. It provides PLENTY of sound insulation and is actually what THX recommends for their theaters, fyi.

But either blown in fiberglass or cellulose will come at a significant price premium vs. fiberglass bat. So if you are on a shoestring budget you will probably just have to suck it up and install batt insulation yourself. Good luck!
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