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The Once and Future Theater - Page 8

post #211 of 1066
Thread Starter 
Here's the followup to the previous video, and the evidence that I got something accomplished today. Pardon the poor quality of the video - I shouldn't record this late in the day.

Tomorrow, it's cleanup, insulation, and assemble the drywall lift. If that all goes well, I may start hanging some OSB.
post #212 of 1066
Framing looks good. I may have missed something, but shouldn't you be running your wiring, conduit, etc. before OSB?
post #213 of 1066
Thread Starter 
Originally Posted by aaustin View Post

Framing looks good. I may have missed something, but shouldn't you be running your wiring, conduit, etc. before OSB?


You would think that the wiring would come first, wouldn't you? And I always figured I would do it in that sequence as well. Then I got around to analyzing my soundproofing schemes, and I realized that all the power would come through the equipment closet, along with the low voltage stuff. The equipment closet is positioned against the rear wall of the theater, where there is easy access through the wall into both the riser and the soffit. I'll have penetrations through the wall into the riser for sub cables and power (for outlets and lighting), and then I'll have penetrations through the wall into the soffit, for speaker cable, video etc to the projector, and power to the stage, to the projector, and for lighting. The only other penetrations through the wall will be HVAC, and they come through the rear wall into risers and soffits as well. So the bottom line is that I need the wall boards in place on the inside of the theater, an probably the soffit and riser rough framed, before I start poking any holes in my aquarium. I won't need any backer boxes or putty pads - just some silenseal.

Speaking of Silenseal, my order left Saginaw yesterday, and is already in Ohio this morning. It should be here by the end of the day tomorrow - Kudos to John at Soundproofingcompany.com for his expert help in preparing my order.

4 Pails Green Glue
1 Speedloader
1/2 case Silenseal
1 automatic door bottom
1 set door seals 870 AA
post #214 of 1066
Be prepared to get more Silenseal. I went through a full case pretty easily. Ended up with a case and a half. I will have a little left over when I'm done I think. Sealing all the OSB joints and the framing at the floor took most of it. Granted I had the IB enclosure and the equipment room to do as well so maybe you will have enough. Just in case, I did find Green Glue Acoustic Sealant at my local Menards. Not the cheapest but if you need some ASAP and can't wait for shipping it might get you by.
post #215 of 1066
Thread Starter 
Thanks for the tip vanice. John explained to me that by overlapping my seams in the wall construction, I would use a lot less caulk. I went through the dimensions of the seams he said I should cover, and I think it only worked out to 180-200 feet. At 40ft/tube, 4.5-5 "should" be enough, but we'll see.
post #216 of 1066
No problem. I went ahead and sealed all seams and corners on my OSB before drywall. I also made sure that none of my seams fell in the same place. I may have double caulked the floor to wall joint (once after framing and once after OSB), I can't remember. The 90 degree corners are the ones that really used up a lot.

Good luck with the OSB. It's nice because you finally start to get a sense of the actual room. It's a good motivator to keep pushing forward.
post #217 of 1066
Thread Starter 
I forgot to ask yesterday - this is one of those BIGmouthinDC questions - but I'm sure one of my regular readers will know, right?

Should I be using regular drywall screws for the OSB? does it matter? what length for 7/16 OSB?

When I buy them, should I be buying enough for the next layer of drywall as well, or will I want a different screw?

And how many is enough.... each sheet should get one every 10 inches or so along each joist. So that's 36 per sheet? (either 4 rows of 9 or 6 rows of 6, depending on orientation relative to joists) I really need to write this down where I won't have to keep estimating.

Ceiling = (21.5 x 12) + (2 x 4) = 266 sqft*
Right wall = 21.5 x 9 = 193.5 sqft
Left wall = 21.5 x 9 = 193.5 sqft
Front wall = 12 x 9 = 108 sqft
Rear wall = (12 x 9) + (4 X 9) = 144 sqft*

*these dimensions are rounded up.

Total surface area, not counting riser, soffit, stage = 865 sqft

36 screws into a 32 sqft sheet, is 1.125 screws/sqft, so 865 sqft needs (865 x 1.125) 973 screws. That should get me the first layer of wall (OSB) up. (certainly, there will be variation from this prediction - I'm not going to go buy only 1000 screws and then be amazed when I run out.)
post #218 of 1066
I may have missed it but are you doing clips and channels or are you attaching straight to the wood framing?
post #219 of 1066
I am pretty sure code says screws should be spaced 16" apart on the walls and 12" on the ceiling. On my walls without any channel, I used 1 5/8" for the first layer and 2 1/2" for the second.

Is there a reason why you aren't using 5/8" or even 3/4" OSB? The heavier mass is much better.

Thanks for clearing up the wiring by the way. That is a great way to do it since it minimizes penetrations in the walls. The only thing I wonder about with that plan is how you will do outlets and switches. It seems like your acoustic treatments alone may not be thick enough to cover a surface mounted box.
Edited by aaustin - 9/12/12 at 8:28am
post #220 of 1066
Thread Starter 
vanice - no clips or anything - just decoupled framing. The ceiling joists I hung sit on walls that are totally free-standing. There is no connection whatsoever between my framing and the rest of the house. I briefly considered clips and channel, in the (perhaps vain) hope that it would help match acoustic impedance among my surfaces. I decided not to, mostly due to cost/complexity vs moving the noise floor in my room.

aaustin - I may spread out the screws a little more. That'll save some time and money. I considered the extra mass of thicker OSB, but didn't for a couple reasons. Really it was a split-second decision that I made using this rationale: 7/16 was significantly cheaper and will be easier to hang by myself. I'm already going with two layers (OSB plus Dywall) and can add a second layer of drywall as well. In fact, three total layers was what John (soundproofing company) encouraged me to do.

Assuming I end up with 3 layers, total; should that change my spacing for screws in the first layer? I don't expect that I can reliably screw the third layer into the studs and joists. I actually think I shouldn't; in order to allow the GG to do it's job, I think I should avoid screwing the outer layer(s) directly to the framing. The extra load on the first layer might need better support from more screws - but maybe I'm being paranoid?
post #221 of 1066
Thread Starter 
Originally Posted by aaustin View Post

...how you will do outlets and switches.
I think I'm going to mount them all in the surfaces of the riser and stage. It may be necessary to do what damelon did and put some in columns - but again in the interest of floor-space, the columns I will likely build will have very small footprints (feetprint wink.gif ), and may not be conducive to outlets.
post #222 of 1066
Screw all of the layers into the studs. I don't know how much I'd trust 7/16" OSB to hold up one let alone two layers of drywall. 7/16" isn't much for a screw to bite into. A good trick for hitting the studs every time is to mark their locations on the floor before hanging anything.

I'm not 100% sure on this, but screwing both layers to the studs should have no effect on the Green Glue's performance. It's what the Soundproofing Company recommends in their instruction manuals after all.

I'd also be wary about deviating from the spacing by much. That code is for one layer of drywall. Two layers means twice the weight and twice the number of screws. It may take one more 5lb box of screws, but, for me at least, the $25 spent on that would be well worth it to have ceiling that I know won't sag or come down.

I like the idea of putting the outlets in the riser and stage, but won't you still have at least one box on the wall for switches?
post #223 of 1066
You should be fine with 1 1/4" course thread drywall screws for your OSB layer. I would suggest 1 3/4" or 2" for the second layer. Aaustin is right, try and hit the studs for each layer. The good thing about the OSB is that if you should happen to miss a few the OSB will grab it.
post #224 of 1066
Thread Starter 
Originally Posted by aaustin View Post

It's what the Soundproofing Company recommends in their instruction manuals after all.
Well that shows you how closely I read the instructions...

And, yes. There will be one single gang wall plate for the Grafik Eye SeeTouch panel (or similar) - I always for get that one.
post #225 of 1066
Thread Starter 
Originally Posted by vanice View Post

...try and hit the studs for each layer.
Chalk lines it is! And thanks for the screw dimension recommendation.
post #226 of 1066
Originally Posted by vanice View Post

You should be fine with 1 1/4" course thread drywall screws for your OSB layer. I would suggest 1 3/4" or 2" for the second layer. Aaustin is right, try and hit the studs for each layer. The good thing about the OSB is that if you should happen to miss a few the OSB will grab it.

I would agree with this on the walls. It would seem counter-intuitive to couple the drywall directly to the studs, although I have no scientific basis for that assumption.

In practicality I don't think strength would be an issue. I would just use enough screws to hold the first sheet on, then use conventional screw spacing on the second layer.. Provided you are going to do both layers on the same day.

post #227 of 1066
Thread Starter 
I just thought I'd check in here. I've not made much in the way of photo-worthy progress, though I have had a few minutes here and there to get ready to hang the OSB, which I still haven't actually started yet. frown.gif

The prompt for my posting tonight is the near-disaster that happened in the living room this afternoon. The wife and I are in the living room, folding laundry and watching TV. I get up to take some pants to the closet, and she yells from the living room, "Fred!" I called back, "yes?" She yells, more emphatically, "Fred, come here!" So I drop what I'm doing and come back. She's crouched down in front of the entertainment center, the dog is working his sniffer - she points into the entertainment center and says, "Something's on fire!" My first thought is "Where is a fire extinguisher?" - which I'm still not sure about - I'll go check - and then it occurs to me - This must be an electrical fire - unplug everything! Luckily the TV is mounted on an articulating mount, so I swing it out of the way and pull the power strip out of the wall.

Nothing had actually burst into flames, but some of the electronics plugged into the power strip had LEDs blinking off as the power strip began to fail. The smell of smoke was distinct.

The power strip seems to have failed internally. My wife's first guess was that there had been some mechanical stress on the power cable, and something must have been damaged or frayed inside the case. That seems like a reasonable prediction, but I'm not sure that there is evidence for that mode of failure. Anyway, here's the photographic evidence.

Notice in the first picture the melted spot on the back of the case, and the smoke/scorching on the sheathing of the power cable.

In this second picture, you can see several burnt components. It looks to me like the source of the heat was a soldered component near the power cables - I don't know what type - I might have said capacitor, but I don't think that's right - it's rectangular. This power strip was the sort with switchable outlets and an RF remote to activate and de-activate those outlets. It's branded as Belkin and is about three or four years old.

Of course, the good news is that we were there when it started and apart from $30 worth of power strip, there seems to be no real damage. Hopefully, my next update will be of more real progress.
post #228 of 1066
Yikes! Good thing you were around (good reminder to change the batteries in your smoke alarms!)

Do you think it may have been overvoltage from the utility co?

post #229 of 1066
Thread Starter 
I'd be surprised if it was over-voltage, but I really couldn't say.
post #230 of 1066
Sheesh! Glad you were home and were able to contain the situation. I have had a dryer plug go bad before and had to summon the fire department to the house to make the Mrs. feel better about my fire assessment abilities not a good feeling at all. We have fire extinguishers on every level of the house "just in case". Very happy for you that the power strip is the only casualty!


post #231 of 1066
Originally Posted by HopefulFred View Post

I think I'm going to mount them all in the surfaces of the riser and stage. It may be necessary to do what damelon did and put some in columns - but again in the interest of floor-space, the columns I will likely build will have very small footprints (feetprint wink.gif ), and may not be conducive to outlets.

A lot of it depends if you are going to do the standard pre-drywall/final insepctions on your room. If you are going the standard inspection route, you will need outlets (Well, Gang boxes) spaced along your walls (Check your local code for exact distances) every X feet. In the case of having the wiring come in the interior of the room rather than have all of the gang boxes built in wall, it should be placed in conduit and exterior gang boxes for the inspection, even if it is inside the columns (or the front wall) and then you can extend cable from there to a gang box on your column if you so choose. I cheated a bit when it came to some of those rules, though once it was done it would meet inspection rules, it wouldn't have passed a pre-drywall inspection due to the absence of the gang boxes at the time, which would have been required. You could state this to an inspector, that you plan on mounting them on the interior surface walls, which would then be concealed later, but that would still be post-drywall. I'm not sure what an inspector would do in those cases. Just food for thought!
post #232 of 1066
Thread Starter 
What's an inspector? wink.gif
post #233 of 1066
Thread Starter 
You've heard of baby-steps - well it came to my attention that phrases like that are standardized by ISO - I've submitted a plea to have the term changed to Fred-steps.

It's been about seven weeks since I actually accomplished anything. Here's what I did today.

I knew that working around the plumbing like I am was going to make things a little tedious and require some extra precision. What's disappointing is to just get the hang of using my drywall lift and then realize that there will only be four full sheets of OSB to hang - everything else will be notched partial sheets.
post #234 of 1066
So. Fred. Progress? smile.gif

post #235 of 1066
Thread Starter 
A little. smile.gif

Not much really. Other people post pictures and their threads go "Well, I framed the basement this week..." And I think, "When did you do that? Don't you have a day job?"

I'm still hanging OSB from the ceiling. The results are looking pretty solid, but it'll take me a while yet. Thursday, I spent about 90 minutes custom cutting and hanging two sheets of OSB. The excuse is that they have totally irregular dimensions and notches cut in them for plumbing to pass through, but the reality is that I am slow, even with some help. Thanks for checking in and prodding. Unfortunately, after 10 hours on the clock today, I'll probably spend most of tomorrow raking leaves and such. We had a piece of dead tree fall and break a window this week. The rest of the tree needs to come down. Also yesterday was my birthday, and Tuesday we had special tickets to Cirque du Soleil, which is in town. Can I pile on some more excuses? wink.gif

The real lesson here is one of planning and preparation. I chose to build teh room within a room and not give op the headroom, and not move the plumbing. The cost of that is the complication I'm dealing with now - and will continue to deal with until the soffits are up and closed in. Hopefully the walls will go faster.

Oh, along those lines - a question. With 9' tall walls (almost), and multiple layers of drywall/OSB (4x8 OSB, and I haven't bought drywall yet), where would you start the full sheets of OSB. I'm thinking vertical and pressed against the ceiling would produce the best result, then filling in with smaller pieces along the floor, so that the weight of the ceiling is best transferred in the walls. But that will be harder than just leaning the large pieces against the wall and letting them stand on the floor while I screw them to the wall. Whatever I do now, I'll do something different for the second layer, overlapping seams. Assuming I apply full sheets pressed tightly against the ceiling - any tips from anyone for doing it as a one-man operation?
post #236 of 1066
First and foremost.. Happy Birthday!

I don't think it really matters which way you install the OSB. If it were me, I would measure up 48-1/4" on one side of the room and mark the stud. Then measure from that line to the ceiling. Take that measurement and measure down from the ceiling on the other side. Snap a chalk line between the two marks.

Install the first layer of OSB to the line.. will probably require a flat pry bar, depending on how flat your floor is.

Install the second row of OSB on top of that.

Measure and rip a strip for the last piece that abuts the ceiling.

If you have a laser level, it gets much easier.

In any event, the reasoning is you do most of the adjusting on the lowest piece. With a foot-operated-pry-bar it's pretty easy for one person. Then you can rest the second row on the first row. Very little muscle involved.

post #237 of 1066
Thread Starter 
Thanks Tim! Sounds like a good plan.
post #238 of 1066
Momma says progress is progress as progress does. Sorry channeling a little Forest Gump there. Just remember how you eat an elephant is the same way you build a theater. One bite at a time.


post #239 of 1066
Thread Starter 
Indeed, sir. Thanks for the reminder.

Sometimes it feels more like this.
post #240 of 1066
Thread Starter 
I forgot - not only did I have a birthday, my build thread did too!

We're close enough to exactly one year in that I figured I'd commemorate with a photo.

This was the first in-progress image I posted, 11/26/2011.

Here we are, from approximately the same vantage, one year later.
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