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# The Once and Future Theater - Page 11

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.Tim

You'd have to make up the height difference, which I believe is 12-1/8".

Tim
I'm going to go with this.

For my records: the cut in the stairs for the second tread is 13.25" and the tread is 1"
By replacing the tread with 3/4" subfloor (actually 23/32 most likely) and 3/8 engineered flooring, but actual final riser height (outside the theater) will be 14 3/8" (minus 1/32) That makes it withing 1/8 of the original tread, so it's consistent with the staircase from the kitchen. That will also make it easy to have any other steps I build match up.

To make this happen, the first layer of 3/4 subfloor needs to sit, as Tim shows, 3/4 below that tread, or 12 1/8 above the existing flooring.

To make up the difference between 11.5 (one 2x12) and 12 1/8, I think I'll go with the joist isolators. They should bring up the joist by almost 1/2 (15/32), leaving just over 1/8. Either that won't matter, or I'll shave down the stair framing by 1/8". In either case, it's an upgrade all around.

This mundane conversation has been brought to you by the letter A, N, A, and L, and the numbers 15/32 and 23/32.

(EDIT: Well, the sharpest and most experienced builders among you may have noticed - this was a wasted mathematical exercise, since a 2x12 is 11.25 inches wide, not 11.5. Turns out, I think, anything nominal 8" and wider is 3/4 inch different, while 4" and 6" are 1/2 different. What a system we have.)

Ultimately, I have decided (months later) to use 3 layers of the 23/32 tongue and groove subfloor, atop the 2x12.

Edited by HopefulFred - 8/25/13 at 3:40pm

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Realistically, you could just rip down the 2x12 to the proper height to allow for 3 layers of 3/4" decking. Of course that can get pricey if that same construction carries over to your riser, but I have seen that as being close to the recommended construction method for a theater riser anyhow.

You are probably going to do this, but I did not see it mentioned....Once you remove the one step tread, I would install a 2x4 ledger board on the rise of that step to support the butt joints of the two layers of 3/4" ply. Plus I assume you will fill in behind with some framing where you removed the tread, even with supporting studs leading down to the concrete underneath the steps to make sure this first part of the landing is solid.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.Tim

I usually work from the size of the door.

30" door needs 32" between jacks, 35-1/4" between kings.
36" door needs 38" between jacks, 41-1/4" between kings.
Tim

Alright. I got off early from work today to come home and get some things done. I got the lawn fertilized, but I'm frozen on the door rough-in. I hate that this is the way I do this (of course I knew the whole thing would be custom - read: weird and non-standard - not to mention a learning experience... :/

from the article I linked to 2 weeks ago:
Quote:
Most new doors are 6 ft. 8 in. tall. Add 3/4 in. for the jamb, 3/4 in. for finish flooring, 3/8 in. for underlayment, and 3/4 in. for wiggle room at the top of the door, and the top of the trimmer (the bottom of the header) needs to be 82 5/8 in. above the subfloor. This height can vary slightly in a remodeling project depending on what's happening with the existing floors. Door widths vary, but an easy way to size the rough opening is to use the door width plus 5 in. as the distance between the king studs.

As he says, this can vary. My subfloor will be 14" above my current floor, so whatever number I come I come up with here, I'll add 14 to it.

6'8" door - yep.
3/4" for jamb - sure.
3/8" (not 3/4) for finished flooring
underlayement - umm... nope.
3/4" wiggle room - sounds like a good idea, but I wish it were less.

so instead of the header being 82 5/8" above the subfloor, I'm looking at 81 7/8

Adding 14 for my riser, my rough-in needs to be 95 7/8 tall, compared to my existing floor.

Alright. That's what I'm building.

I'll check back after I build it, before I nail it into the wall, to see if anyone disagrees with me.

Fred

p.s. Can you tell this makes me nervous?
Quote:
Originally Posted by TMcG

Realistically, you could just rip down the 2x12 to the proper height to allow for 3 layers of 3/4" decking.
I may do this inside the theater, where there will be carpet instead, but I will stick with 2 layers outside, and avoid the ripping.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TMcG

You are probably going to do this, but I did not see it mentioned....Once you remove the one step tread, I would install a 2x4 ledger board on the rise of that step to support the butt joints of the two layers of 3/4" ply. Plus I assume you will fill in behind with some framing where you removed the tread, even with supporting studs leading down to the concrete underneath the steps to make sure this first part of the landing is solid.
The thought that it would need reinforcing occurred to me, but I hadn't given much thought to the how. This sounds good. Thanks!
Wow, you guys have been busy while I was away

The door rough in doesn't have to be perfect. You just need to leave yourself room to put the door in there. Then you can shim it as necessary. Again, I'd try to get the king stud and jack stud plumb on the hinge side so you can attach your door directly to it.
Height for door RO is not too critical. I would figure on the larger side, especially since door frames usually have "ears" on the top-- the portion of the jamb that sticks up past the head jamb.

6'-10" is a good number IMHO.. which coincidentally is just about what you figured

Now, if you are going with a fnacy door bottom or threshold.. you may want to figure that in as well.

Tim
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.Tim

Now, if you are going with a fancy door bottom or threshold.. you may want to figure that in as well.

Tim
LALALALA! I don't hear you! I've already cut the stringers and the header. This is happening. (I already have my automatic bottom, shipped with my seals, GG, and silenseal.)
The only other gotcha I can think of is if you order a solid core door on an exterior frame, the jambs may be thicker than 3/4". I think mine are around 1-1/4".

Wait, if you're so busy framing a door, how do you have time to update your thread???????
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.Tim

Now, if you are going with a fancy door bottom or threshold.. you may want to figure that in as well.

That door bottom can be surface-mounted or recessed into virtually any door with no problem. If Fred gets a pre-hung door, typically speaking the side jambs suspend the door a good inch off the floor allowing plenty of room for the fancy threshhold. The only way a thresshold wouldn't fit is Fred cut down the side jambs at the bottom, thereby lowering the door.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TMcG

The only way a threshold wouldn't fit is Fred cut down the side jambs at the bottom, thereby lowering the door.
Now this is what an analysis paralysis analyst is good for - cutting through the whatifs and finding the bottom line. I feel better.

And J_P_A - just because you can't use a circular saw, update your thread, and go pick up take-out for dinner all at the same time, doesn't mean I can't. Actually, once I cut my door rough in parts, I had to wait until I could get in contact with my brother in law so that I could get my compressor back and run the nail gun. Now that the compressor is up to pressure, and I've eaten dinner, it's back into the breach I go!
Edited by HopefulFred - 3/7/13 at 6:23pm
Wouldn't it be funny if after all this, nothing was accomplished?

No, that wouldn't be funny.

This was not without incident, but it is accomplished. There are a number of big long screws where I would normally have used nails, but I don't feel bad about that at all. My framing nailer has developed another fairly significant air leak. I'll have to replace some more seals before I press it back into service for building the risers. Risers won't happen too soon, however. I've still got at least one (strongly considering two) layers of drywall to hang and finish before that.

It's almost time to "close the door" on this phase of building! Wacka wacka wacka!
Quote:
Originally Posted by aaustin

...............THAT'S HILARIOUS!!
Yesterday's slow afternoon at work that allowed me to go home and get something done has dragged into a slow morning today. I was able to get my framing nailer "rebuilt" - which is to say I took it apart and tried to figure out which o-ring was leaking, cleaned the sawdust out of it, and failed to find replacement o-rings for anything suspect. I did find one big seal that was cracked, and I was able to glue it back together (something I would recommend to no one, as an auto repair tech). Whether it was the glue, or removing the sawdust, or dumb luck, it's not leaking any more. So I'm back in business, just not making any money.

Now to find a 5/8 drywall supplier who can deliver with a forklift on Saturday.
Pay the extra \$1 sheet or whatever it costs to have it carried into the room. It will be the best money you ever spent on the roorm!
Amen! That stuff is heavy! I was pretty surprised the first time I picked up a couple sheets.

I think \$2/sheet is the going rate for a relatively easy walk-up around here.
I'm waiting on a call back. The guy said earliest delivery would be late Tuesday - so I'm scheduling for early Wednesday (my day off).

All of a sudden I'm having second thoughts. Should I have asked for 4x10 for my 9' walls? over two layers, that saves me about 10 sheets, and a lot of seams. But I can hang no full sheets - each one will be cut to fit.

Thoughts?
Quote:
Originally Posted by HopefulFred

I'm waiting on a call back. The guy said earliest delivery would be late Tuesday - so I'm scheduling for early Wednesday (my day off).

All of a sudden I'm having second thoughts. Should I have asked for 4x10 for my 9' walls? over two layers, that saves me about 10 sheets, and a lot of seams. But I can hang no full sheets - each one will be cut to fit.

Thoughts?

Brotha!!! Get the 54" x 12' sheets and use the sheets horizontally to get the 9' height. Also FAR less butt joints, typically speaking. You will definitely need a drywall lift, fyi, but it's soooooo worth it for the square footage those sheets cover. I only needed 20 sheets of this size to do one layer in my entire theater room.
Yeah, I second the motion to get bigger sheets. No matter what install method you are going to use, the 4x8 sheets will compound (not pun intended) the amount of work required to finish.

I would get the 10', cut them to the height of your room and do stand-ups. No butt seams. Especially with the OSB layer beneath this would far and away be the way I went. Much easier to install.

Tim
If you have a true (or close to it) 9' ceiling, then you can use "wide rock" as TMcG pointed out. It's 4.5' wide and I think you can get it in 8', 10', and 12' lengths. So two sheets on its side gives you 9'. That said, my room is not quite 9', so I'm planning on 10' sheets and standing them up as Mr. Tim suggested. More waste, but fewer joints.

I'll admit, after moving that 10' stuff around my basement, I'm afraid of working with 12' sheets with no help. Did I mention it's heavy?
Well, maybe I'm too easy to please, as a customer. They didn't have the 54x144 (4.5x12) in any of their nearby locations with 5/8 thickness, so I went with the 4x10.

60 sheets for 2 layers, delivered Wednesday morning. He didn't tell me the per-sheet price, but I think it works out to \$11.33, before tax and delivery. For comparison, a 4x8 sheet goes for 10.25 at Lowe's today - but they don't carry anything larger in 5/8. So in terms of \$/sqft, this is about 10% discount compared to Lowe's. And I'm just having them drop it in the garage - mostly because I want to be flexible about where it goes as the process continues. I still have lumber laying around for building the risers and soffits, so I'll have to do some reorganizing when I bring it in.

And here's the inevitable follow-up question: with three total wall layers - OSB, 5/8 DW, 5/8 DW - where would you put the GG? in half loads on every sheet of DW? or all at once and leave the third layer without CDL?

I'd prefer to get the GG out of the way and be able to hang the last layer without it, for the sake of time and cleanup - see what I mean?
Quote:
Originally Posted by HopefulFred

And here's the inevitable follow-up question: with three total wall layers - OSB, 5/8 DW, 5/8 DW - where would you put the GG? in half loads on every sheet of DW? or all at once and leave the third layer without CDL?

I'd prefer to get the GG out of the way and be able to hang the last layer without it, for the sake of time and cleanup - see what I mean?

Maybe Ted could chime in on this (or you can call them), but I would say don't waste your time or Green Glue on half-measures. It needs the recommended amount to work most effectively. So either do it between all the layers at 2 tubes per 4x8 sheet rate as per their instructions, or just do the two tubes per 4x8 sheet between the two layers of drywall only. Think of the first layer of drywall secured to the OSB as just securing the material to studding. Sure, the additional mass will help with dampening, but you are leaving a bit of potential soundproofing performance on the table if you don't GG between all sheets. What that translates to in the real world, I am not sure....
On drywall wasteage....

If you're doing it yourself you can probaly save some money by buying fewer sheets. What I found by having a crew hang it, is that your bigger cost is labor. Pros will not spend 5 minutes looking through the scrap pile for that perfect size piece to fit "right in there!" They take a full sheet, cut it and hang it. IF the cut piece they have in their hand RIGHT THEN will fit the next area, then they will use it. The crew of 4 that did my room hung 130 sheets (2 layers of 5/8s) in 10 hours. They showed up at 9:00 and by 9:10 drywall was going up. By 7:00pm they were cleaned up and gone. And that included tossing the pile of scraps (that nearly filled my double walkout that is about 6' deep) into the truck for disposal.

Granted I had a lot of odd cuts and angles, but I KNOW I would have spent HOURS going through the scrap pile to find that piece that I KNOW I cut 2 hours ago and will fit "right here!"

On Green glue - I would guess that you want to do1/2 tubes between both layers, but I suggest talking to Ted White. If I recall, you get about 80% of the benefit using 1/2 tubes.
Recommended coverage is 2 tubes per 4x8 sheet. You can use a 1/2 application of 1 tube per sheet and retain 70% of the damping, with the drop in performance likely evidenced in the LF.

You would not use 1/2 tube per sheet.
99, I missed it by that much!
Hahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!! Use the C.O.S. !!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ted White

Recommended coverage is 2 tubes per 4x8 sheet. You can use a 1/2 application of 1 tube per sheet and retain 70% of the damping, with the drop in performance likely evidenced in the LF.

You would not use 1/2 tube per sheet.

Just curious...if you get 70% of the benefit at a rate of one tube per 4x8 sheet....do two layers at the one tube per sheet rate exceed one layer at 2 tubes per sheet? I know the additional mass from the additional layer comes into play, but all things being equal that's the question I have.
Quote:
Use the C.O.S. !!

Not Crawl, you idiot, CRAWL!

Now we're off track!
The GG can only be deployed between two sheets.
I think he means the difference between two layers and three layers

I.e, does two layers with two tubes per sheet perform better/worse than three layers with one tube each.
Would either be better?

1 - OSB - 2TUBESGG - 5/8DW - 5/8DW

2 - OSB - 1TUBEGG - 5/8DW - 1TUBEGG - 5/8DW

3 - OSB - 5/8DW - 2TUBESGG - 5/8DW
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