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The Once and Future Theater - Page 27

post #781 of 1066
Probably too much heat from the sander.. and/or crappy sandpaper.

You shouldn't have to bear down to get results.. the paper should do the work. That looks like the result of applying too much pressure (generating to much heat) or the sandpaper getting loaded.

I've had good luck with Mirka and 3M Fre-cut Gold.

Edit: you may want to use a heavier grit to remove the bulk.. 220 or 180. Then work your way up.

post #782 of 1066
Mr. Tim is right. I immediately saw that and thought crappy clogged sandpaper is creating too much frictional heat.

Still easily salvageable, you just have to work up to your final finish grit.

Oh, and +1 on the Mirka sandpaper. I always just bought "the sandpaper" at HD, Lowes.....well, a neighbor woodworking friend gave me a sheet of the Mirka and I couldn't believe the difference my novice hands could feel. Shocked at the difference in quality, actually.
post #783 of 1066
Thread Starter 
Well, you learn something every day. Thanks guys. I'm glad I'll be able to fix it.
post #784 of 1066
And now we both know. Don't take this the wrong way, Fred, but I'll be learning this one from your mistakes.
post #785 of 1066
Thread Starter 
I had cheaped out a little when I bought sandpaper the first time, thinking I would just use sheets and a block for the rougher stuff, just finishing with the 320 on the pneumatic sander at work. After looking at how things were going and the feedback about the sandpaper, I went back to the woodworking shop this morning and bought some 150 and 220 3" discs to fit on the sander. Much better!

I was able to complete sanding on one of the cabinets while I was off this morning. I took them to work, but had to get back home for some other things this afternoon, so the other cabinet will have to wait a couple more days. It's not perfect, but it's much improved and totally adequate for my standards. If I were shooting for a high-gloss black or something like that, I'd still have lots more work to do, just to fill in all the little pits on the corners and such. As it is, I'm very happy with it as is. I don't think I'll get paint on it today, but soon.

This view of the top shows where I screwed the inner baffle too close to the edge and it bulged out some. There are a number of those spots, as well as a couple router gouges. They've all been handled to my satisfaction.

post #786 of 1066
Thread Starter 
Here's where I stand with paint. I pulled everything out a few nights ago to get it started, and read the secret instructions, only to find out I didn't really have what I needed. The simple instructions for Milk Paint are "mix with water, paint." The complete instructions, printed on the insert that you don't find until you open the package include: "if you are painting a dense wood, like birch, you should add our other product, Extra Bond." I considered buying it from Amazon, but I wouldn't have been able to get it before Friday, and would have paid double the list price to have it shipped, so I went back by the fancy woodworking shop and picked up a bottle of extra bond this afternoon - then came home and got it all together.

I've got the paint powder (silver package, top left) the extra bod (white bottle) assorted cups and trays and the foam roller than Milk Paint says should be least likely to make streaks (after spray, which would give the most even finish, but too much hassle for me - plus they say spray at 30psi, so my HVLP sprayer is not what they want). The finishing guru at the shop says use a hand mixer, scrape off the foam, then strain with cheese cloth.

When I mixed up the first batch, figuring proportions by eye, I thought I would get by without straining. I did, but shouldn't have. The first batch I mixed up was a little on the thick side, and had less Extra Bond than it should have. Here you ca see (I hope) how foamy it is. There seemed little chance that the foam would rise to the top to be scraped away, so I got started as is.

Here's the results of the first coat:

I kept with the same cabinet. The first coat was dry to the touch on the first panels I painted by the time I got all the way around, so I just started again - still working from the same batch of paint. At this point, I got a little nervous because I was getting a lot of little bubbles in the paint as I rolled it on. I hadn't seen any in the first coat at all. This picture is hard to see, but there is a field of bubbles, each about 1mm, and about 2mm from the next bubble. They seemed to not make a difference and disappeared as the paint dried. I was also able to work much of the foam out by overworking the paint with the roller after it was running low on paint.

About this time, I was running low on paint and wanted to get more Extra bond into the next batch to start fresh on the second cabinet. So I mixed up another batch, using the recommended proportion of Extra Bond (50%! but I didn't measure) and the paint came out a lot thinner. I strained it through cheese cloth to avoid the clumps that I was beginning to pick up on the roller toward the bottom of the first batch of paint. You can see the wood grain pretty clearly with this coverage. If not for the wood filler, I might like to leave it like this. Here's a couple shots of the first coat on the second cabinet:

After two coats on the second cabinet, I was running low again, so I beefed up with lots of pigment (maybe a little more water) to make the third batch of paint. It was very thick. Straining it took a long time - I had to un-double the cheese cloth (going from 4 layers to two). Eventually, it was ready. This picture may not convey the viscosity, but trust me, it was high.

I put two coats from the thick batch on each cabinet. I'm not sure if I'm done yet - I could use some advice. The portions without wood filler look great. They're just what I envisioned. This picture is the best representation of the color, and don't mind the two dark spots - they're some kind of photographic artifact.

The problem is still the areas with wood filler. The color is inconsistent. The flash magnifies the problem, but it's evident under normal light as well. The paint had dried for about an hour - maybe more - by the time I took this photo.

I still have the ceramithane to apply eventually. I am reasonably happy with the texture of the cabinets, but they might benefit from a light sanding. What can I do to get the color to match?
post #787 of 1066
First off, I'm digging that color! It wasn't what I was expecting when you said barn red, but I like this a lot. I'm anxious to see what colors you end up going with in the room.

As far as the uneven color, again I'm pretty useless here. My first thought is that you may have needed some sanding sealer or primer. That doesn't do you much good now, though. Not sure how to correct it other than sand and add more coats.
Hopefully someone with some actual experience will chime in.
post #788 of 1066
I'm afraid I wouldn't be much help either, but perhaps a quick call to the woodworking supply place could get you the answer you need. Interested to hear what you find out.
post #789 of 1066
Additional drying time might even it out. If it's still evident I would give it a few days to cure, sand and put another coat on.

Besides that, the finish looks great! It's not a color I would have thought of.. but it looks really good.

It reminded me of Brad's thread.

post #790 of 1066

What you have here is an example of different absorption rates of the filler versus the wood. This is why I always use a sealing primer on my speaker projects. You can keep putting on more paint and eventually you will have clogged all the pores and it will become uniform or you can sand, put on a primer and then paint again.
post #791 of 1066
Thread Starter 
Originally Posted by BIGmouthinDC View Post

or you can sand, put on a primer and then paint again.
this is what I was afraid of. Will I need to sand all the way down to wood and filler?

Got any recommendation for primer?
post #792 of 1066
Sanding is just to get it smooth again if you have any imperfections, no need to go to the bare wood. If also gives a little more tooth to the surface for the primer to bond. As for what primer you really need to test the compatability of your paint with various primers. Just grab a scrap. put on the primer let it dry and paint.

on this project I used a spray can sanding primer. I think it was actually a Rustoleum product intended for auto body work. If you want to roll something on I would try the one labeled stain blocker compatible with latex paint.

post #793 of 1066
I went the keep putting on more paint-route on one of my first projects.... think I ended up with 6-7 layers before it was ok.

Like the colour too, I think people are too scared of colour. I have both green and purple subwoofers and people who've only seen pictures before coming to my place almost always comment that they're more discreet IRL than they thought.
post #794 of 1066
Thread Starter 
I'll get back with you guys about hit after I speak with the finishing guy at the shop, on Wednesday. Thanks for the feedback. I think I'll end up priming and repainting, like BIG said - but since that won't happen before I get a day off work, I'll take the time to cart the cabinet over to the shop and ask them in person before I commit to any course.

In the mean time, I'm looking for a low voltage (and hopefully low cost) equivalent of this:

I'll need two. If you've seen this, let me know. This version, stocked at Lowes, includes the power outlet and everything. I don't need that - this will just be for subwoofer signals and such, but it's in/near a pathway, so it needs to be rugged.
post #795 of 1066
I have two of these exact in-floor units and I can tell you that you don't have to install a high voltage receptacle. It would be just as easy to install a low voltage decora insert like this: http://www.westsidewholesale.com/leviton-41646-w.html?mr:referralID=23bee52b-1f2b-11e3-bae4-001b2166c2c0 for up to six low voltage wire terminations in a single gang. Lowe's also carries this one: http://www.tselectronic.com/shop/product/Carlon-E971FBDI-2-Drop-In-Floor-Box/1039 which comes with a built-in two-port insert for low voltage wires. Personally, I like the nickel plated one you picked out and would just make that one work. Real metal cover, good looking (as these things get) and wire pass-through with the lid closed.
post #796 of 1066
Thread Starter 
Originally Posted by TMcG View Post

Personally, I like the nickel plated one you picked out and would just make that one work. Real metal cover, good looking (as these things get) and wire pass-through with the lid closed.
I agree about those features - they're kind of must-haves for me. It's just silly that you have to buy the whole kit-n-kaboodle just to throw out the receptacle. I also found this: http://www.legrand.us/wiremold/floor-boxes/raised-floor-boxes/crfb-multi-service-round-recessed-floor-boxes/crfb-multi-service-round-recessed-floor-box.aspx#.UjefTcaURck but I bet it's more expensive and it's part of their commercial line, so good luck finding it for sale anywhere. It's conceivable that Lowe's has their catalog at the electrical desk and I could have them special order it for me, but there would be no product support or guidance about making sure I got all the bits I needed for it to work as intended. (I hate Lowe's)
post #797 of 1066
Graybar, LeGrande, Siemens, Extron and a host of others in the commercial market have tons of these things, but they're all expensive. That box you picked out is $136. Most are in the hundreds of dollars and have an unbelievable number of options to get exactly what you need, adding to the cost. I'd say $40 plus the quickport insert and be done with it.
Edited by TMcG - 9/16/13 at 5:59pm
post #798 of 1066
Thread Starter 
I think I'll take your work for it. Incidentally, Home Depot stocks it for $2 less - and they even have two on the shelf, according to the website anyway.

Thanks for the info TMcG - timely and direct to the solution as always. smile.gif
post #799 of 1066
Do you need a cover? Could you use a recessed box like this? Could be suitable if it was under your seating.

That being said, if you absolutely need floor boxes, I would spring for the $40. Either that, or find a way to avoid them altogether.

post #800 of 1066
Thread Starter 
Thanks Tim. I think I'm going to spring for he $40 boxes with the lids. In reality, I could probably get away with what you linked, but it would limit my flexibility, and flexibility is a central design tenant for me.

The boxes will definitely be in the floor (riser), and not under seats. I'll have a couple more under seats for seat power, but this is for subs. So I am unwilling to commit to placing the subs directly over them - even though they will probably end up that way.
Edited by HopefulFred - 9/18/13 at 7:01am
post #801 of 1066
Thread Starter 
Originally Posted by TMcG View Post

Interested to hear what you find out.
I took my cabinet up to the shop this morning and had a chat with the guys there. One of them even called up the folks at Milk Paint and we came to the conclusion that the best solution would be more thin coats. That's fine with me. There were concerns over primer compatibility, so the solution with the fewest unknowns wins.

The bad news is that I'm a total numbskull and should have waited until I had the drivers on-hand before I cut the baffle. I cut the hole too big - seriously too big. My diameter is 15 3/8. I don't know how I talked myself into believing that would work for a 15" sub - just not thinking, I guess. Anyway, I think it's recoverable and may actually improve the overall look through the solution.

The driver's overall diameter should just barely fit inside the hole I cut, so I'll switch to a recessed mount. The solution is going to be to cut another small baffle portion that will be the mounting surface for the driver. After I have the driver in hand, I'll confirm the diameter, cut the hole, and then cut it in half so that it can fit inside the cabinet. Then I'll screw it through the front, with plenty of clamps and glue. Then fill the screw holes and paint again. The only lingering undecided detail for me (I think) is finishing the inside edge of the existing cut-out. Obviously it will need paint, but I'm thinking a smallish roundover - maybe 3/8 - then wood filler and paint. Lots of sanding...
post #802 of 1066
I feel your pain on the driver cutouts.. I did the same thing. *cough*Post 767*cough*

What about making a fabric grill? Then you wouldn't haven't to worry so much about the aesthetics. I'll even send you some black fabric smile.gif

post #803 of 1066
Thread Starter 
I know, Tim, I know... That was the first thing I thought: Tim warned me.

A grill is not a bad idea. I just don't like them. If it comes to that, then so be it.
post #804 of 1066
I hate to hear about your sub problems, but it sounds like you have a workable solution. I suppose the only suggestions I can make is to choose your screws carefully and to clamp the new baffle to the old baffle well so that the two pieces pull together tightly when you screw them together. I only say this because I rarely follow this advice and I always end up regretting it smile.gif
post #805 of 1066
Thread Starter 

I don't have a lot of really good pictures of today's work, but there was lots of good progress made. The last two steps of the staircase into the basement were demolished and the new riser got framed in!

The 8" return duct got routed as well as the drain pipe for the sink that will go in. I'm not terribly happy about the final location we ended up with for the return plenum, but it should be very effective without being the worst soundproofing choice.

I haven't quite settled on how the duct will get routed through the wall, but it's in the wall space now, so I guess I just need to build a plenum that fits in the wall. If this is a bad choice, or someone has tips that can improve the soundproofing of such an arrangement, let me know. smile.gif

It was a long day of work, and cleanup didn't really happen, so here's the last picture. You can see that we got one complete layer of subfloor down, but there are no steps down from the landing. I'll have to get to those in the next couple days. Right now, because of the missing layers of subfloor, the step down to the landing is nearly two inches taller than the others, and the step off the landing is 12" instead of having an additional 7" step.
post #806 of 1066
Subscribed. I am enjoying watching the progress. Keep up the good work!
post #807 of 1066
Are you going to line the stud cavity? You can also use some wall stack if you want to duct the return up the wall. My HD carries it.

post #808 of 1066
Thread Starter 
Originally Posted by bigfelter View Post

Subscribed. I am enjoying watching the progress. Keep up the good work!
Thanks! I'm trying. smile.gif

Originally Posted by Mr.Tim View Post

Are you going to line the stud cavity? You can also use some wall stack if you want to duct the return up the wall.
This was what seemed to make sense - honestly I don't see much difference between using a wall stack and not. I just want the quietest solution - for both sound containment and air flow noise.

Any ideas? Maybe I'll need to double drywall that area.
post #809 of 1066
Are you planning to build a dead vent of some kind either inside or outside the room?
post #810 of 1066
Thread Starter 
I need suggestions. I have that staggered stud wall space and potentially some extra space under the sink there.

I could potentially reconfigure and go through the wall under the riser decking. That would mean a lot of cutting. There may not be enough space based on the joist on the theater side. I'd have to make some careful measurements to check feasibility. Certainly the simplest choice would be to seal the stud cavity, cut a hole, and hang a register - that would also be the worst for soundproofing, I believe.

Hit me with your ideas.
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