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LG Plasma Panel tweaks for better blacks. - Page 46

post #1351 of 1390
Hi cobaltqube,

Very helpful information. I appreciate all the input.

I can live with the issue regarding the floating blacks or ABL. It doesn't happen on majority of the content I watch. Although, I did some more tweaking of the pots and i have observed, at least on my set, SET-DN affects my black levels more than SET-UP. It seems that SET-UP affects my floating black issues. SET-UP clockwise appears to only affect my sets black level during transition scenes (you know when a movie fades to black then goes to a new scene, kind of like when switching inputs). The more I have SET-UP clockwise, the darker those blacks are. If we could only have the same black levels when it switches input.biggrin.gif

And that black level measurement, Wow! I knew from the beginning that it won't be as black as a Panasonic set, but seeing those numbers eek.gif. For comparison, the LG 50PG60 2008 Plasma measures 0.113cd/m2! And VT60s measuring 0.005cd/m2! (source:http://www.avsforum.com/t/1471147/comparison-of-black-levels)

Now I want to get a meter myself and see my TV's measurement.

Just a little disappointing that LG's own 2008 plasma beats out their newer model one in black level. And to top it off, those plasmas can drastically improve their black levels because they respond to pot tweaks better than our 2013 models.

That said, I still enjoy my TV and considering i only paid $850 or £525 for a 60inch 3D Smart TV. For what you get, it's still a very good value, just wished that those pot tweaks did a little more.

No TV is without fault, or they would have stopped making new ones, I have to stop looking for defects:p. Because if you look hard enough, you will find something;)

For now, I'll just enjoy it!
Edited by germz92 - 10/1/13 at 10:13am
post #1352 of 1390
Quote:
Originally Posted by germz92 View Post

Hi cobaltqube,

And that black level measurement, Wow! I knew from the beginning that it won't be as black as a Panasonic set, but seeing those numbers eek.gif. For comparison, the LG 50PG60 2008 Plasma measures 0.033cd/m2! And VT60s measuring 0.005cd/m2! (source:http://www.avsforum.com/t/1471147/comparison-of-black-levels)

For now, I'll just enjoy it!

Whoa! You almost gave me a heart attack.. Thankfully, the values you mentioned are actually in Foot Lambert(fL) and not cd/m2. The value I referenced, was in Candela/m2(cd/m2)

So, the 0.15cd/m2 actually converts to 0.044 fL, which now doesn't look as bad I initially thought when reading your post. I was ready to break my TV! But yes, still, it is very poor that a 2008 set(0.033 fL) trumps a 2013 on black level. Very sad indeed that our sets also does not really respond well to the pot tweaks.. frown.gif

So could you actually see visible differences when adjusting your SET-DN pot? You mentioned you experienced pic noise/pixel misfires? Also, what did VsC do for you when adjusted fully counterclockwise?

Let me know, every little counts! wink.gif
post #1353 of 1390
Sorry for the almost heart attack cobaltqube.tongue.gif I forgot to convert the LG 2008 number, but the VT60 was already in cd/m2. I've edited the posting and converted it: 0.113cd/m2 for the LG 50PG60 2008 Plasma.

On my set, SET-UP only affects mll from 10 to 1 o'clock position. SET-DN appears to give me the most response from 3 to 6. It also introduces misfires. What I found out is that i could tweak SET-DN further clockwise if my SET-UP does not go beyond the "sweet spot"(10 to 1). I found that, on my set, I could turn SET-DN the furthest without any misfire when my SET-UP is at 1 o'clock position.

Using the Spears & Munsil PLUGE low test. SET-DN definitely darkens the black bars and background. SET-UP, once again only shows change from the sweet spot. VSC still doesn't appear to affect anything.Clockwise or counterclockwise, nothing I can see.

So in short(at least on my set):

SET-UP: Affects mll from 10 to 1 o'clock position. Affects how far SET-DN can go clockwise.
SET-DN: Affects mll the most from 3 to 6 o'clock position. Produces misfires the more you go clockwise.
VSC(VY on others): Doesn't seem to do anything to the image or black level.

These are the results from just one TV, others will differ. Hope this information helps.
Edited by germz92 - 10/2/13 at 9:09pm
post #1354 of 1390
Hehe, no worries!

That's great! Thanks for sharing your exact procedure, I will have to give that a go, as I have not tinkered with SET-DN whilst SET-UP was between the 10-1 o'clock position. I am hoping I can squeeze some more out of the set so I can finally put it to rest.. However, I will have to do this while the wife is away.. Hmmm.. wink.gif

What do misfires look like, I haven't experienced any yet so I am not sure what to look out for. Then again, I'm sure I'll notice something is not right.

Thanks for the info again!
post #1355 of 1390

Hello all!

I'd like to try the black tweak on my 50PA5500. :D

 

But I have a question:

to remove the back I must also remove the stand?

Someone who has already tried this tweak on PA5000 could tell me how to do that?

 

thanks to all ;)
post #1356 of 1390
cobaltqube, misfires are when pixels fail to switch colors. It'll be easy to spot if you have a solid bright color onscreen. Although you probably know that by know since my reply took too long biggrin.gif. Also if you have any suggestion, I've been debating on which calibration device to buy.

siuseppe, You must remove the stand. After you remove the stand, then you can access the back panel screws behind it. I don't suggest doing it by yourself unless you're trying to hide from you're wife like cobaltqube.. Hehe.
Edited by germz92 - 10/7/13 at 1:24am
post #1357 of 1390
Thanks germz92 smile.gif

I'll bear that in mind when I take the panel off again, Haven't an opportunity yet, will have to sponsor the wife for a shopping spree or something, otherwise she'll keep pestering me lol

I will let you know once I do, and whether or not I am able to drop the mll by a little more. I'll keep the meter on the screen when I make the adjustments and should then be able to see in real-time when it drops or rises(mll)

I can't really recommend a colorimeter for you, as I have nothing to compare it against, this is my first one! But the x-rite i1Display Pro 3 seems to be a solid choice, and seems to be one of the more accurate colorimeters out there. At least when pitted against the Spyders..?

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1483043/can-you-please-reccd-a-hdtv-calibrator

http://www.gamutprints.com/2012/04/i1display-pro-vs-spyder-4-and-spyder-4-quick-review/

http://nativedigital.co.uk/site/2013/04/i1display-pro-vs-spyder4elite/

You'd have to get additional software though, as the i1Profiler software are mainly for PC displays. I am using colorHCFR at the moment(free), but Chromapure and Calman also offer package deals with the i1Display pro and their software.. Anyway, go check it out smile.gif

I will let you know what measurements I get as soon as I have had time to open the set again, and get fiddling with the pots!

Cheers
post #1358 of 1390
Quote:
Originally Posted by germz92 View Post

siuseppe, You must remove the stand. After you remove the stand, then you can access the back panel screws behind it. I don't suggest doing it by yourself unless you're trying to hide from you're wife like cobaltqube.. Hehe.

Thanks germz92!

Ok, I must remove the stand.

So there must be a helper that  takes in a vertical position the tv. 

I'm not married so no problem :D

post #1359 of 1390
Just found out what VSC really does on my set. At first I thought it did nothing because I was adjusting it in it's own. What I did was turn it back and forth to look for changes but end up setting it back to its default position as I see no changes in black level. However, I was tweaking a little last night and found that if I leave VSC full counterclockwise, SET-UP and SET-DN responded better. When I turned both those pots full clockwise, my jaw dropped! Edward Scissorhands was currently playing and it was a night scene of someone in a car (never really seen the movie). The night sky was just jet black. Pretty much bezel black. I was just in awe. However, the celebration was short lived. As the scene switched from night to day, misfires flooded the screen. Darn it! I really wanted to keep that setting but there were just to many wrong pixels. I tried cranking down SET-UP and SET-DN till the misfires disappeared but that point seems to just bring me back to where my black levels were after the first tweak.

What I saw is that VSC clockwise makes the SET-UP, SET-DN less responsive, in terms of lowering mll, but also produces the least misfires. Counterclockwise makes those pots more responsive but a produces the most misfires.

Right now I am doing a balancing act to find a setting where I can achieve the lowest mll with as little misfires.

So the 60PH6700 is capable of a very low mll but just produces too much misfires to achieve it. Anyone know if any of the power supply pots will help me keep my super black settings while reducing misfires?
post #1360 of 1390
Hi germz92,

Thanks for sharing that! I tried fiddling again last night, but I can't say that I experienced the same joy you have! I think my panel is now at the lowest MLL it can offer..

Here's what I did:

From the start, my SET_UP was cranked fully clockwise as this is the pot that made the most noticeable difference in MLL the last time I fiddled with the pots. MLL measured in at 0.15cd.m2(.0.044 ftL) at the time. I tried your procedure as follows:

Returned everything to default positions.
Adjusted SET_UP to 1 o'clock position - MLL rose to 0.19 cd/m2 (0.055 ftL)
Adjusted SET_DN fully clockwise - no misfires, and could not see(by eye alone) MLL dropping, but measured 0.17 cd/m2 (0.050 ftL)
I then adjusted SET_UP fully clockwise again - measured 0.14 cd/m2 (0.041 ftL)

No huge difference, and certainly not that noticeable to the naked eye, nor was it jet black like in your experience frown.gif

I then messed around further, and decided to see what VS does....

I adjusted my VS pot counterclockwise very slowly until I eventually went all the way. Guess what, the MLL dropped to 0.12 cd/m2 (0.035 ftL)... An improvement, but it's still not great.. I mean there are LCD's that will knock this TV out of the park!!? frown.gif

Oh, and also, to quote Wietsew, I have also noticed the unfortunate side effect of setting VS all the counterclockwise - more image retention... Not sure if I want to sacrifice a cleaner looking panel for this small gain in black level...? I mean even when having the menu up for a short time seems to stick around on the screen when running though test patterns.. Not cool. Oh yes, and I cranked VZBIAS fully clockwise, as I noticed some misfires when I turned VS all the way counterclockwise. This made the misfires go away.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wietsew View Post


Like others have mentioned already VSC doesn't do anything to picture quality and VS affects the sharpness of the image and influences the VZB pot's setting. First I turned VS counterclockwise until noise appeared and backed off a little after that. For VZB I did the same procedure for a sharp picture without misfires.

The blacks and contrast are better now then the first time the tv was modded, but there's an unfortunate side effect. Image retention is worse than it was before now so decided to enable the pixel orbiter to prevent this.

I have watched scenes from various movies like Bourne Legacy, Star Trek, Iron Man and have noticed no ill effects thus far. The back cover is still off in case something does crop up, so I will be watching a fair amount of content with a keen eye

All in all, I cannot fault my picture quality, it is great, especially after I calibrated my greyscale(DeltaE lower than 1!) and gamma to 2.2. I will PM you some pics of the graphs when I have a chance, don't want to post them here as it is not relevant to the thread and don't want to be shouted at tongue.gif

But I do not know if I can live with this black level, where in 2013, it is worse than any of its following predecessors!!! I can't help but feel cheated?

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1250816/black-level-measurements-of-recent-lcds-and-plasmas-enjoy

50PG60(hometheatermag) 0.033fL
60PS80(hometheatermag) 0.023fL
50PK550(chadB) 0.0132fL
50PK750(chadB) 0.026fL
50PK950(flatpanelshd) 0.0116fL

I just can't fathom how a newer product fares worse than their older ones... It is beyond me...

germz92 - You will have to get a meter now so that we can compare results! tongue.gif I am very very curious to see what levels you are getting on your set!
post #1361 of 1390
Quote:
Originally Posted by rob80b View Post

Hi Guys/Girls

After starting this thread almost two years ago it's nice to see folks are still tweaking.
Haven't taken any measurements but my PX950 still looks as black as when I first adjusted the pots back in 2011.

Hi Rob,

Are you able to take a measurement of your PX950? I am very curious to compare my shoddy results with others' smile.gif

Many thanks
post #1362 of 1390
Hey all,

After almost a month since first tweaking the pots on my LG 60PH6700, I have finally put the screws back on smile.gif I worked on my set the whole night yesterday. Tweaking every single pot and pretty much going through all the combinations of clockwise and counterclockwise. I tried everything from matching the voltages on the label to just eyeballing the TV while turning the pots. At the end, I ended up pretty much matching the sticker label except with a little variance on the Y-SUS Board as these gave me optimal results.

My results we're not quite what i was expecting. Not nearly as good as some people were getting. I know this is might be a generalization, but I don't think the 2013 sets really respond well to these tweaks. While it might not be the case for others, it is for my TV. Anyway, to try and save you guys with the 60PH6700 (I don't know if this applies to other sets) a few hours of your life, if you want to tweak your set, just tweak SET-UP and SET-DN. What i discovered is that even though the other pots might give you a little lower mll, you end up increasing the mll anyway because they introduce misfires and noise and you have to compensate by turning the other pots to clear up the picture. For example, turning VSC counterclockwise gets you lower mll but then misfires happen. You then have to compensate by turning SET-DN or SET-UP counterclockwise to reduce errors which increases your mll. In the end, you'll be back to where you were before in terms of black level. You have to find how far you can lower your black before it starts causing errors. I settled on a point where the black levels are not as low as it can go but the picture has no errors. If you can live with a few misfires, you might be able to achieve lower black levels than I did. As for me, I cannot stand any wrong pixels or increased noise so i give up a little bit of black level for a nice and clean picture. That's just me.

Now, I am not discouraging 2013 owners from tweaking more than just SET-UP and SET-DN. I just wanted to share my experience on my panel and help other owners and try to make things easier. If you do get better results or find something I have missed using the other pots, please let us know wink.gif

With that said, I'm still glad I tweaked my set. I did, in the end, get better black levels. It did make my display better, and it's free!

Update: Here are pictures of my results.


With LED back light:


These pictures make the TV black levels look a bit darker than they are in person.

Here is one with a longer exposure:


All three pictures have the black bars on the top and bottom. You can barely make out the fist two, but the third shows it quite well.
Edited by germz92 - 10/13/13 at 12:15pm
post #1363 of 1390
Has anyone done this tweak on a LG60PS11?
post #1364 of 1390
Thanks for sharing that, germz92.

I can confirm the same especially after experiencing pink mist from cold start ups now since messing with the other pots... I will also set everything back to default factory positions, and just adjust Set_Up fully clockwise(as I had it before) It is just sad that even with Set_Up fully clockwise, I still measure 0.15cd/m2 - p*iss poor!

I am hoping that my RGB 5050 LED strip(which I'll be using as a bias light too) will improve the black perception for me.. I will stick it out with this TV for a while, maybe a year or two. But when I buy again, I will be sure to save up enough for a Panasonic. They are not going to stop making plasma's next year as everyone seems to think.

Anyway, thanks again to all for all the tips and advice, I guess a slight improvement is better than nothing, and as germz92 said, it's free smile.gif

Cheers
post #1365 of 1390
Best settings for this tv across the board ....
Under standard picture settings
Panel light 100
Contrast 91
Brightness 53
Sharpness 30
Color 53
Tint 0
Color temp 0
Dynamic contrast off
Dynamic color off
Super resolution off
Gamma high
Noise reduction off
Mpeg off
Black level low
Real cinema off
Tru motion off

Took a week to tweak but was well worth it
Let me know what u think
post #1366 of 1390
hi everyone, interesting thread.

has anyone tried the the tweaking on this years plasmas namely the pn6500. I have the uk version pn650t, would the same process apply to this model ? any help or guidance would be much appreciated as I am a bit apprehensive on doing this but am very tempted.
post #1367 of 1390
Has anyone tried this on the cheaper 60PN5300 or the 60PN5700? They are both good for the price $600 and $750 respectively. Im considering trading up for a new LG. I have a 2009 samsung B series plasma. Im not impressed with the black level but I was hoping to get a cheap LG and try to tweak the black level. My samsung is a power hog plus it buzzes and throws off considerable heat.
post #1368 of 1390
Yes these settings are for the 60pn5700....
post #1369 of 1390
Hey guys I have a 60PA6500 I adjusted set-up clockwise, and my blacks are improved, I wanted to check my VA voltage to confirm it is set to what The panel recommended. I have a fluke digital multimeter, are the values on the back voltage or ohms and if its voltage where do I check it? And also where do I check the Vs voltage
post #1370 of 1390
Never mind I figured it out
post #1371 of 1390
They are voltages. It's been years since I did mine, but there is some sort of service/training manual released by LG that is circulating on this forum. Get a copy. It shows exactly how to measure the voltages and how to do the adjustments. They are measured across various resistors and connectors. You need to be *really* careful not to short anything out by accidentally touching test leads together, or Puff! Find the manual.
post #1372 of 1390
So are some of the files still available from the PZ950 series? I clicked the links but they did not work.

I want to try this but I thought my black levels look good (60pz950)

when I get close to the screen on a black screen I see yellow artifacts all over the place does this mean that my set has its black levels set too high already?
post #1373 of 1390
Quote:
Originally Posted by rrussell50 View Post

So are some of the files still available from the PZ950 series? I clicked the links but they did not work.

I want to try this but I thought my black levels look good (60pz950)

when I get close to the screen on a black screen I see yellow artifacts all over the place does this mean that my set has its black levels set too high already?

Usually this can be alleviated by turning down the brightness a little. If not, dial back the voltage a little bit until the artifacts disappear. There's a fine line between achieving the set's best black levels through adjustment and having correctly calibrated brightness levels, however.
post #1374 of 1390
Outside of removing my panel, can any of you please list the "Generally Accepted Calibration Settings" for optimum PQ on my 60PZ950?

Thanks! smile.gif
post #1375 of 1390
Quote:
Originally Posted by goldark View Post

Usually this can be alleviated by turning down the brightness a little. If not, dial back the voltage a little bit until the artifacts disappear. There's a fine line between achieving the set's best black levels through adjustment and having correctly calibrated brightness levels, however.

Yea my tv is calibrated and it still there however I really never noticed it until I was up at the tv cleaning it. I guess that is why I was so happy with the black levels, But two things one I still would still love to read those files ,

2nd - does anyone have the service menu codes to get into it? I have the ISF 8741 lock code but I would like to poke around the Service menu if possible to hopefully re-calibrate it without going through so many menus.
post #1376 of 1390
Quote:
Originally Posted by pioneer 1985 View Post

hi everyone, interesting thread.

has anyone tried the the tweaking on this years plasmas namely the pn6500. I have the uk version pn650t, would the same process apply to this model ? any help or guidance would be much appreciated as I am a bit apprehensive on doing this but am very tempted.

I have the same set, also looking for an answer to this. Don't want to strip the TV and find that I can't do it.
post #1377 of 1390
Hi folks. I have LG PV450 and turned my Setup full clockwise and the Vs about one notch counter. I now have this. Which of the 2 potis are likely causing this condition?

Thank you!

post #1378 of 1390
setup - rotate counter clockwise until it goes away
post #1379 of 1390
Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post

setup - rotate counter clockwise until it goes away

Will do. Will it take a few secs to fade while i'm making the adjustment and thus I should just turn it a little at a time and give it a sec to respond? or just keep turning until the point it turns back white right away?

This pic above is on the white wash screen.

Thank you!
post #1380 of 1390
There is no "fade time" but the area affected will get smaller as you rotate.
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