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LG Plasma Panel tweaks for better blacks. - Page 3

post #61 of 1329
11/15/11 at 5:31pm
I can vouch for the much improved blacks. Measurements coming as soon as my D3 gets here!
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post #62 of 1329
11/16/11 at 7:24am
I'm glad this tweak is taking off in popularity. It really does make a difference.
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post #63 of 1329
11/16/11 at 8:28am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bhazard View Post

I'm glad this tweak is taking off in popularity. It really does make a difference.

Hi Bazard,

Have you had a chance to directly compare your current MLL on your PZ950 with the better Panasonics and Samsungs?
Also I'm curious to know for those who have tweaked their panels, when viewing films which are already borderline when it comes to crushing black if the tweaks have a tendency to crush the blacks further and lose shadow detail on those films.
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post #64 of 1329
11/16/11 at 8:38am
No. Infact the shadow detail improves in clarity.
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post #65 of 1329
11/16/11 at 8:49am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Turrican4D View Post

No. Infact the shadow detail improves in clarity.

Thanks Turrican, that's what I was hoping thinking a lower MLL would give a better contrast ratio in dark scenes.
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post #66 of 1329
11/16/11 at 2:35pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by rob80b View Post

Hi Bazard,

Have you had a chance to directly compare your current MLL on your PZ950 with the better Panasonics and Samsungs?
Also I'm curious to know for those who have tweaked their panels, when viewing films which are already borderline when it comes to crushing black if the tweaks have a tendency to crush the blacks further and lose shadow detail on those films.

It still doesn't match what Panasonic and Samsung top models can do, but it is much better than what LG offers as stock.

Give it a shot, I think you're going to like the results.
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post #67 of 1329
11/16/11 at 2:40pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by rob80b View Post


Hi Bazard,

Have you had a chance to directly compare your current MLL on your PZ950 with the better Panasonics and Samsungs?
Also I'm curious to know for those who have tweaked their panels, when viewing films which are already borderline when it comes to crushing black if the tweaks have a tendency to crush the blacks further and lose shadow detail on those films.

No crushed blacks, at all, on mine after tweaking.

I have followed Turrican's Directions to the tee and am amazed on how unbelievable PQ is, not just deeper blacks, but the overall pics on this TV is mind-blowing!!

One thing though, once in a purple moon, I might get a white pixel or two misfire only upon changing the channel. Going to be hard to know if I fix because only occurs seldom.

What I should do without compromising the blacks I currently have????? Sniff, sigh. Which one could be causing this?

I have VA turned Turned all the way clockwise.
VY is full countercw.
SET_UP was clockwise all the way but had to turn back some due to noise (red and colored streaks)
SET_DOWN...uhhh, don't remember but I tweaked while looking at front of set to also remove some noise in the black letterbox bars.

Also, which one of the 4 is most "responsible" for the deepest blacks?

I thought didn't have to remove back panel again but guess I will have to even though looks beautiful.

Those last few pics I posted which show positions should be DISREGARDED due to having to re-tweak because noticed some of those red dots in MENU SETTINGS of TV only. Will post again once re-tweaked.


PEACE
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post #68 of 1329
11/17/11 at 12:26am
Quote:
Originally Posted by derod68 View Post

Also, which one of the 4 is most "responsible" for the deepest blacks?

From what I've read in this forum and in the documents, Set-Up is the main player here.
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post #69 of 1329
11/17/11 at 6:08am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Voz View Post

From what I've read in this forum and in the documents, Set-Up is the main player here.

Yea...does look that way.
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post #70 of 1329
11/17/11 at 6:33am
Yup, if one would use Set_Up only (all other six on default position) on my display, he could get 0.020 cd/m2 on/off mll and if he would use the Set_Dn pot only (other six pots default) he could get an mll of 0.030 cd/m2 (on/off).
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post #71 of 1329
11/17/11 at 7:04am
Thread Starter 
From the PZ950 thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turrican4D View Post

Hehe

Even on my own PK350 I tried very different approaches. One method included Va full clockwise and the one I am using at this moment is the opposite-> Va full counterclockwise.

Each method has consequences for the other pots. If I set Va full clockwise, I cannot go so far with Set_Dn and I can't use Vs-Boost.

If I set Va full counterclockwise, I have more headroom for Set_Dn but a little less headroom for Set_Up but I can boost Vs a little bit, to make up for that, so that I have again the headroom for turning Set_Up more clockwise.

Generally are Set_Up, Set_Dn and Vy the only three of the seven pots, which have a direct influence on the black level.

Also generally there are three pots, which can cause vertical noise patterns-> Vs, Set_Dn and Vy.

One could say with Va full clockwise the danger of getting pixelmissfires out of a black screen to a bright screen (Disney Castle on Disney BDs for example) is not so high as it is with Va counterclockwise, but with counterclockwise the chance of getting missfires during an actual moviescene is lower.

If one decide to better just get some little pixelmissfires sometimes for getting even more out of his panel mll wise, he could experiment mit the pot VSC, cause with VSC at the right sweet spot, the ability of your panel to erase false fired pixels can be sped up.

VZB also has a sweet spot, that you can find the best with halflit secenes leike the one in "The American" ight at the sturt, when Clooney lies there with his soon to be dead girlfriend-> You turn VZB full counterclockwise: The picture will have lost its depth. Now you move slowly(!) micrometer for micrometer clockwise just to the point, where this moviescene jumps back to depth and contrast.

This is what you might get with the seven pots, if you set it too much clockwise or counterclockwise:

VZB____: noise (clockwise) or dullness (counterclockwise)
Vs_____: noisy whites/pixelmissfires (clockwise) or dullness/extreme pixelmissfires (counterclockwise)
VA_____: none obvious erros but possible pixelmissfires with static fullgreen screen (clockwise)
VSC____: None obvious errors or artifacts
Vy_____: noise/less MLL (clockwise) or better MLL (counterclockwise)
Set_Up_: pixelmissfires/better MLL (clockwise) or bad MLL (counterclockwise)
Set_Dn_: noise/better MLL (clockwise) or bad MLL
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post #72 of 1329
11/17/11 at 7:07am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Turrican4D View Post

Yup, if one would use Set_Up only (all other six on default position) on my display, he could get 0.020 cd/m2 on/off mll and if he would use the Set_Dn pot only (other six pots default) he could get an mll of 0.030 cd/m2 (on/off).

Since the PZ950 gets about 0.09 stock, it is a noticeable improvement. Huge thanks providing this info. I was one of the first to try it aside from yourself and I'm glad I did.
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post #73 of 1329
11/17/11 at 7:27am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bhazard View Post

It still doesn't match what Panasonic and Samsung top models can do, but it is much better than what LG offers as stock.

Give it a shot, I think you're going to like the results.

I'm itching to see the results on my PX, problem is I've almost zero free time (I post from my shop when I usually have a few free minutes here and there) and a trick back so I need help getting the set off the wall and onto the stand.
As it currently stands my PX950 is very close to the Panasonic ST30, so if LG hasn't maxed out the black adjustment on my PX the results should be interesting and hopefully match the top current plasmas.
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post #74 of 1329
11/17/11 at 7:49am
Rob, Turrican, and Bhazard...you guys rock!!!

Here is my Motto for this Thread...

"Once you go Black, you never Tweak Back"

I know corny but couldn't help it.
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post #75 of 1329
11/17/11 at 9:33am
Question for all. I adjusted the Set_Up and my TV looks fine, but I've noticed when watching football if a team has red or orange jerseys it bleeds a little. Is that from moving Set_Up all the way clockwise, or just the set in general (I have the 60PV450). Just wanted to know before I take the back off again to try and adjust it.
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post #76 of 1329
11/17/11 at 9:36am
Just tried it on a Zenith 50".

I will say it looks a lot better. Pioneer Kuro blacks? You're dreaming. It looks like a low end 2010 model Samsung.

It seems to take a bit of working to get it right. Watch some scenes that pan with white you'll notice any misfires there. I'd say it took me an hour to get it to the point where it was perfect in terms of better black levels, and no problems in any type of scene.

My advice mark the settings and you can set it back if you screw up.

It gives the picture the pop the set is missing.
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post #77 of 1329
11/17/11 at 10:58am
Pretty cool stuff. I always find it interesting when consumers can figure out display enhancements/improvements such as this that manufacturers cannot/will not do.
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post #78 of 1329
11/17/11 at 11:23am
Quote:
Originally Posted by heisman6183 View Post

Question for all. I adjusted the Set_Up and my TV looks fine, but I've noticed when watching football if a team has red or orange jerseys it bleeds a little. Is that from moving Set_Up all the way clockwise, or just the set in general (I have the 60PV450). Just wanted to know before I take the back off again to try and adjust it.

The only way to know is to dvr a game like that and adjust on the fly. It could be coming that way from your content provider too.

I left about 6 of the 30 screws on the back for easy access from now on.
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post #79 of 1329
11/17/11 at 11:30am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidHir View Post

Pretty cool stuff. I always find it interesting when consumers can figure out display enhancements/improvements such as this that manufacturers cannot/will not do.

Well hobbyist know “Never let well enough alone”, otherwise it’s not a hobby, and if it wasn’t a hobby we wouldn’t frequent these forums, and if we didn’t frequent these forums we would be like the 90% or more LG users who do not know better, and sometimes to know is not necessarily better, but then again we’re hobbyist.
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post #80 of 1329
11/17/11 at 11:44am
That's it, I don't think I can squeeze any more without some type of consequence. I am very pleased with my final results.

Here are my latest pot settings...

Set_Up full throttle clockwise.
VA Full throttle counter cw.
Set_down and VY in their positions below.
LL
LL
LL
LL
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post #81 of 1329
11/17/11 at 11:55am
On my 50PK550, set_up seemed to make the most difference with just a small tweek of Vy. I found it helpful to switch between a color bar pattern (some pixel misfires show up only with certain colors) and a screen geometry pattern (black background) to set the pot levels. Thanks to Turrican4D, I am finding out what effects the different pots have. After I upgrade my display meter, I will do this again to see if I can squeeze out a little lower mll.

I was planning on looking at the new plasma offerings coming after CES next year and replacing my PK550. After doing these tweeks, I am not. This has greatly increased my satisfaction with my current display!
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post #82 of 1329
11/17/11 at 12:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by yrly View Post

Just tried it on a Zenith 50".

I will say it looks a lot better. Pioneer Kuro blacks? You're dreaming. It looks like a low end 2010 model Samsung.

It seems to take a bit of working to get it right. Watch some scenes that pan with white you'll notice any misfires there. I'd say it took me an hour to get it to the point where it was perfect in terms of better black levels, and no problems in any type of scene.

My advice mark the settings and you can set it back if you screw up.

It gives the picture the pop the set is missing.

I agree with you, I did it on my 50" zenith too, it improved the blacks alot, I could tell immediately, also the picture just pops now as the contrast has increased too.
However, the blacks do not compare to my daughters 720 samsung she got the beginning of the year, the samsung has way better blacks and color IMO.

but nevertheless, I am extremely happy with this tv and its a keeper for sure..
all I did was setup-Up full clockwise, Vs one tick counter-clockwise. it took no more than 20 mins.

cheers..
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post #83 of 1329
11/17/11 at 12:19pm
This might be possible on some Samsungs too. I had fixed a Samsung HPT4254 circa mid 2007 I bought at a garage sale and gave it to my son for his bedroom that had a busted power supply. I always thought it looked too bright, and I tried tinkering with it in the service menu, but was never able to achieve what I considered a good black level, and having had a Vizio from the same general era, I figured better was possible. I speculated that the set's firmware had adjusted to compensate for the aging of the panel, the new power supply, having more power due to whatever aging of the other power supply, put out more and thus the black leel suffered.

After doing this Zenith this morning I popped it open and found similar pots. I figured what the heck $50 garage sale TV can easily be replaced Black Friday if I messed it up. Figuring whatever firmware had adjusted the voltage up for the aging of the panel I dropped the VA on the power supply to minimum. This will cause pixel misfires if too low. So I upped it until it was stable first. This dropped the black level quite a bit from the get go. Then I tweaked the same three pots that the LG/Zenith has. If you adjust the one too far one way or the other you'll get pixel misfires and speckles. I adjusted that to where it had no speckles first. Then adjusted the other two until I achieved a good black level. There is one on the X board which seemed to have no noticable effect. This one you had to do with solid color screens and make sure it had no misfires on any given color.

After it was done? Much better. About the same as last year's Samsung.
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post #84 of 1329
11/17/11 at 1:27pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by yrly View Post

This might be possible on some Samsungs too. I had fixed a Samsung HPT4254 circa mid 2007 I bought at a garage sale and gave it to my son for his bedroom that had a busted power supply. I always thought it looked too bright, and I tried tinkering with it in the service menu, but was never able to achieve what I considered a good black level, and having had a Vizio from the same general era, I figured better was possible. I speculated that the set's firmware had adjusted to compensate for the aging of the panel, the new power supply, having more power due to whatever aging of the other power supply, put out more and thus the black leel suffered.

I would believe any set that has access to the potentiometers on the Sus-board and Power supply boards should be able to be tweaked, as was done on the Panasonics last year to try and retrieve the original black levels, although results will vary according to manufacturer and individual panels.
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post #85 of 1329
11/17/11 at 1:36pm
Thread Starter 
Now for all those getting their feet wet, I'm curious if the perceived grey black you were experiencing was on all sources and program material.
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post #86 of 1329
11/17/11 at 1:46pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by rob80b View Post

Now for all those getting their feet wet, I'm curious if the perceived grey black you were experiencing was on all sources and program material.

All sources, very noticeable. PX had a slightly better black level than the PZ, but not by much. Both were grey/black.
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post #87 of 1329
11/17/11 at 4:55pm
Just did this on my 60pk950. Only setting that seem to change the pq was the Set-up. Messed with down and VY but really didn't' notice any pq changes. Down all the way clockwise did change the picture in to a big blot but anywhere else there wasn't any changes.

Blacks are definitely darker, inky. Not a huge improvement but very noticeable. But the best part about doing this mod is a cleaner picture. I've always had an issue with this tv having a noisy "grainy" picture. With the Set-up all the way clockwise the picture looks clean... as in hardly any noticeable video noise, great bluray like "dave matthews & Tim Reynolds" looks almost like looking though a window. Picture was great before but now its just about perfect.

Very quick and easy mod!
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post #88 of 1329
11/17/11 at 10:03pm
Would this be possible on an LG PS80 (PS8000)? Are the pots labeled the same way?
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post #89 of 1329
11/17/11 at 10:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by therunemeister View Post

Would this be possible on an LG PS80 (PS8000)? Are the pots labeled the same way?

I thought that black levels on Plasmas are already quite good and it is the LCDs that need some tweaking. This thread is an eye opener but I would still think twice or may be thrice before opening my Plasma apart.
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post #90 of 1329
11/18/11 at 4:34am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by therunemeister View Post

Would this be possible on an LG PS80 (PS8000)? Are the pots labeled the same way?

http://136.166.4.200/contents/Displa.../50/50PS80.htm
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