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LG Plasma Panel tweaks for better blacks. - Page 33

post #961 of 1329
1/28/12 at 11:49am
Quote:
Originally Posted by rob80b View Post

Make sure you are using a full white screen when doing the measurements..

Yes of course, I used full white screen.
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post #962 of 1329
1/28/12 at 12:06pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by rob80b View Post

Try the Yrr (rising ramp time) clockwise as I mentioned in the previous post.if you haven't already.

For anyone just getting into the tweaking on the LGs or other makes, the Ramp_up, Set_up or as in the Samsung "rising ramp time", these are all basically the same and will have the most affect on lowering the MLL, the other pots may not need to be adjusted and probably only need to moved if you are setting the set to factory panel labels and for tweaking in order to get more head-room for the Set_up.
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post #963 of 1329
1/28/12 at 12:32pm
Thread Starter 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tweaking

"Tweaking
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This article is about hardware and software tweaking. For the drug-induced behavior, see Stereotypy. For other uses, see Tweaker (disambiguation).

Tweaking refers to fine-tuning or adjusting a complex system, usually an electronic device. Tweaks are any small modifications intended to improve a system.

In electronics, it is a synonym for "trimming." Analog circuit boards often have small potentiometers or other components on them that are used to calibrate or adjust the board as a service procedure: the small insulated screwdriver used to turn them is often called a "tweaker.""
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post #964 of 1329
1/28/12 at 12:49pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by caruga View Post

Hello everyone

What is the difference in voltage between the initial settings and the labels on your TV?

I'm trying to play a long time ago with VS and after that set_up we no longer work as before.

I am using the settings that are on the label, and if you return to the default VS voltage is much lower than the sticker.

I apologize for the bad english

Quote:
Originally Posted by rob80b View Post

Make sure you are using a full white screen when doing the measurements..

Quote:
Originally Posted by caruga View Post

Yes of course, I used full white screen.

Hi caruga

Do you mean when the pot is returned to the factory location, if so that is possible, I would just adjust the pot to where the meter reads the same as the sticker, for example if it was originally at 12 o"clock the new position might now be at 1 or 2 o'clock.
And this is important, did you adjust the pots in the order as stated in the manual? Vs, Va, -Vy, VSC, VZB and finally Set_up, Set_dn.

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post #965 of 1329
1/28/12 at 1:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post

Was able to lower mll by 0.003 ftL (not much but heh, it's a start).

Adjustments made:

1. Vs (same as LG) 205 V -> 198 V (full CW)

this had the side effect of lowering Vsc (which is equivalent to LG's Vy)

2. Vsc (corresponds to LG Vy) -190 V -> -170 V (full CW)

Both of these adjustments had small mll effects and the combination led to the 0.003 ftL reduction.

Ve (equivalent to LG's VZb?) was not adjustable after the above tweaks and dropped from 80 V to 75 V

Va was also not adjustable and stable at 58V

No bad effects noticed so far (misfires etc.), will watch some stuff to confirm.

I'm guessing the greatest MLL effect will come from the waveform adjustments (set_up/dn, ramp, etc). The other voltages matter very little on the LG.

EDIT: I see Rob already said this ^^^. I concur. I suggest setting all the other voltages to factory specs using a multimeter.
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post #966 of 1329
1/28/12 at 1:36pm
Hi rob80b

I'll try to explain my problem ...

When I first worked (at the very beginning of the HIFI forum) I got a great depth of black, using only set_up.

But after a few days returned to his old gray black.

After that I tried with VS and went a little too far, and TV has made restart.


Everything is still OK, black is not any worse than before (gray black) but set_up no longer so great an impact as the earlier (before the restart of TV)

I set the voltage as it says on the label but still no progress is being made with set_up and set_dn.

Earlier set_up gave me an excellent depth of black is set at about 12 o'clock, and now they can not profit even when you set it to all the way to 4 hours.


Just to add that I have done everything in order and everything is written in the manual.
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post #967 of 1329
1/28/12 at 3:32pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by caruga View Post

Hi rob80b

I'll try to explain my problem ...

When I first worked (at the very beginning of the HIFI forum) I got a great depth of black, using only set_up.

But after a few days returned to his old gray black.

After that I tried with VS and went a little too far, and TV has made restart.


Everything is still OK, black is not any worse than before (gray black) but set_up no longer so great an impact as the earlier (before the restart of TV)

I set the voltage as it says on the label but still no progress is being made with set_up and set_dn.

Earlier set_up gave me an excellent depth of black is set at about 12 o'clock, and now they can not profit even when you set it to all the way to 4 hours.


Just to add that I have done everything in order and everything is written in the manual.

Some of those who have adjusted the VS appear to be having the same occurrence, you may need to reset the control board as explained by Turrican4D

Quote:
Originally Posted by losservatore View Post

finally the blacks are back again and I found out how turrican trick the board.okay this is how he explain and im going to correct some things see after the EDIT WORD..This is how it worked to me read after the EDIT WORD.


Originally Posted by Turrican4D View Post

Anyway, I got deeper with my german PK350 (aka US PK550) than before and that is without the MLL getting lighter again after a few days.

a) Before I turned the set on, I made sure, that I had already found the optimum settings for all pots besides Vy-, Set_Dn and Set_Up

b) I set Vy-, Set_Dn and Set_Up full counterclockwise

c) I turn the TV on and let itself warm up with a fullscreen movie for about three to four hours

d) I turn the TV off and remove the power cord.
EDIT:dont wait till the tv power light completely turn off and go to the next step quick

e) I removed the LVDS-cable from the Y-Board.
EDIT:disconnect the ribbon cable that runs from the CONTROL BOARD TO THE Y-SUSBOARD just disconnected from the Y SUS BOARD and disconnect the LVDS cable that runs from the CONTROL BOARD to the MAIN BOARD just disconnected from the CONTROL BOARD still dont let the light of the tv completely turn off it have to be quick in order to go to the next step.

f) Turned the TV on again and let it warm up for half an hour.
EDIT:in order to do this step you need to connect the power cord and turn on the tv.
remember that the panel is off but the boards are on let the boards warm.

g) Turned Set_Dn to the exact location I knew it won't result in any noise

h) Turned Set_Up the same amount than before clockwise, but after that went futher clockwise (slowly) until I reached a point, where there were some little clouds of missfired pixels began to arise

i) I turned Vy- some very little amount - the pixelmissfires disappeared
EDIT:dont try this step the panel is off while all the boards are on not sure why he write that.

j) I turned the TV off and removed the power cord again.

k) I connected the LVDS-cable again with the Y-Board.
EDIT:connect the ribbon cable from the Y-SUS BOARD and connect the LVDS cable.

l) Turned the TV back on


EDIT: hope this help better to understand turrican tweak....This tweak also works to reset everything back to normal after you mess with the vs boost lol.just turn the vs pot to original position and go thru the whole process again.
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post #968 of 1329
1/28/12 at 4:06pm
I've already tried this but without success.

set_up and set_dn unfortunately behave the same, only it seems to me that the picture is a little lighter and cleaner.

The service manual on page 57 is an explanation of how to solve the problem.

quote

NOTE: If
Abnormal settings
cause excessive
brightness then
shutdown,
Remove the LVDS
from Control
board and make
necessary
adjustments.
then reconnect
LVDS cable,
Select White
Wash and adjust
correctly.


But there is no explanation for the necessary adjustments should be made.
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post #969 of 1329
1/28/12 at 4:49pm
Tweaked my 50pk550 once again. I think black levels are now below 0.01 ftL, and set_up is now a little past 1 o'clock position (default 10 o'clock, full clock 4 o'clock). Probably will get an eyeone display 2 in the near future to measure the mLL, because the spyder 2 wont even register a reading below 0.013 ftL. First step i did was set all voltages back to panel specs. Then wound set_up to 1 o'clock position. This time I used the checkerboard and alternate the black and white windows to look for the random red pixels. I kept getting about 10-20 vagrant red pixels popping up at different parts of the screen. Next I moved Vy full clockwise and VSC almost full clockwise, which seems to remove some of the random red pixels. Next, I moved VZB slightly clockwise and noticed almost all of the vagrant pixels disappeared. Hence, I started moving set_up to about 1:30 o'clock position and saw only one or two more random pixels. Now I am very happy with the result and I will probably not open up that my LG 50pk550 anymore unless anything else happens. I have been watching tv all day today and I could only make out about one or two vagrant red pixels up close, so I'm perfectly ok with that. Thanks for the suggestion to do the tweak once again to get a better mLL.
P.S. the alligator clips did help me get a steady VSC and Vy reading after having white wash on for at least 10 mins.
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post #970 of 1329
1/28/12 at 5:04pm
resisting.....

the....

tempatation....

to....

tweak.....

a.....

third.....

time.....
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post #971 of 1329
1/28/12 at 9:51pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by caychanh30 View Post

Tweaked my 50pk550 once again. I think black levels are now below 0.01 ftL, and set_up is now a little past 1 o'clock position (default 10 o'clock, full clock 4 o'clock). Probably will get an eyeone display 2 in the near future to measure the mLL, because the spyder 2 wont even register a reading below 0.013 ftL. First step i did was set all voltages back to panel specs. Then wound set_up to 1 o'clock position. This time I used the checkerboard and alternate the black and white windows to look for the random red pixels. I kept getting about 10-20 vagrant red pixels popping up at different parts of the screen. Next I moved Vy full clockwise and VSC almost full clockwise, which seems to remove some of the random red pixels. Next, I moved VZB slightly clockwise and noticed almost all of the vagrant pixels disappeared. Hence, I started moving set_up to about 1:30 o'clock position and saw only one or two more random pixels. Now I am very happy with the result and I will probably not open up that my LG 50pk550 anymore unless anything else happens. I have been watching tv all day today and I could only make out about one or two vagrant red pixels up close, so I'm perfectly ok with that. Thanks for the suggestion to do the tweak once again to get a better mLL.
P.S. the alligator clips did help me get a steady VSC and Vy reading after having white wash on for at least 10 mins.

Given the fact that you ended up moving the VY and VSC almost fully clockwise anyway, was there clear benefit to having measured them to spec to begin with?

Secondly wondering if anyone has determined the correct "LVDS" cable to disconnect for a "reset" tweak?
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post #972 of 1329
1/28/12 at 9:57pm
I'm considering pulling the trigger on a pz950 right now... let me get this straight:

I CAN get the black levels near to or equal to my 9G elite?
72hz works properly?
No panasonic/samsung equivalent of FBr?

What am I missing other than that this is the best deal in plasma when using the tweak?
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post #973 of 1329
1/28/12 at 11:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cinema626 View Post

I'm considering pulling the trigger on a pz950 right now... let me get this straight:

I CAN get the black levels near to or equal to my 9G elite?
72hz works properly?
No panasonic/samsung equivalent of FBr?

What am I missing other than that this is the best deal in plasma when using the tweak?

No. Not even with the best tweaking.

If you buy now, you are likely to get one mfg after May 2011. These may have multiple problems that even perfect black cannot make up for. Read the PZ950 thread. I am getting my second service visit Tues. If you do want to take the chance, I suggest you save even more money and get the PZ750. The only difference is the TruBlack Filter which adds DSE/moire that can't be fixed. I don't think it adds enough contrast or reduces glare enough to meet the claims by LG or warrant the higher price.

I'll trade you, even if you have a 50".
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post #974 of 1329
1/28/12 at 11:49pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ratm View Post

resisting.....

the....

tempatation....

to....

tweak.....

a.....

third.....

time.....

Too...

Funny!!
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post #975 of 1329
1/29/12 at 2:38am
Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post

Was able to lower mll by 0.003 ftL (not much but heh, it's a start).

Adjustments made:

1. Vs (same as LG) 205 V -> 198 V (full CW)

this had the side effect of lowering Vsc (which is equivalent to LG's Vy)

2. Vsc (corresponds to LG Vy) -190 V -> -170 V (full CW)

Both of these adjustments had small mll effects and the combination led to the 0.003 ftL reduction.

Ve (equivalent to LG's VZb?) was not adjustable after the above tweaks and dropped from 80 V to 75 V

Va was also not adjustable and stable at 58V

No bad effects noticed so far (misfires etc.), will watch some stuff to confirm.

Zoyd are you able to point out on photo where these pots are. Some time ago I opened up my 64" d plasma and boosted Vs to maximum as I enjoyed the added brightness, but did not spot the Vsc or Ve, etc. pots. Perhaps start an equivalent Samsung thread on the topic?
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post #976 of 1329
1/29/12 at 5:51am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cinema626 View Post

I'm considering pulling the trigger on a pz950 right now... let me get this straight:

I CAN get the black levels near to or equal to my 9G elite?
72hz works properly?
No panasonic/samsung equivalent of FBr?

What am I missing other than that this is the best deal in plasma when using the tweak?

Hi Cinema626

Well I wouldn't go that far, yes some of us are extremely happy with the results but Pioneers panel technology is different from all the other manufacturers, see xrox's thread for further information,
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...php?p=19515158
There is no guarantee to the quality of the individual panels, even with the same model the results vary and to say the tweaks are trouble free that varies also.
I do not think I'd buy an LG hoping to tweak it into one of the best performers available but this thread has helped a great deal in making previous owners happier with their purchase. I purchased my PX950 not for it's black level, which wasn't bad to start with, but for it's overall color, grayscale and picture quality, which I compared to the Panasonic VT25 on numerous occasions before making my decision. The fact that tweaking has enabled my PX to match the current Panasonics was just the luck of the draw, and a happy coincidence seeing that I started this thread.
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post #977 of 1329
1/29/12 at 6:51am
Quote:
Originally Posted by muzzakus View Post

Zoyd are you able to point out on photo where these pots are. Some time ago I opened up my 64" d plasma and boosted Vs to maximum as I enjoyed the added brightness, but did not spot the Vsc or Ve, etc. pots. Perhaps start an equivalent Samsung thread on the topic?

good idea, I'll start a samsung mll tweak thread. btw, I adjusted Yrr and reduced mll to 0.007 ftL (from 0.016 ftL). No obvious ill effects so far, I'll have to watch closely for the next few days to confirm.
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post #978 of 1329
1/29/12 at 8:02am
Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post

good idea, I'll start a samsung mll tweak thread. btw, I adjusted Yrr and reduced mll to 0.007 ftL (from 0.016 ftL). No obvious ill effects so far, I'll have to watch closely for the next few days to confirm.


Isn't it a little hard to believe that this adjustment is just becoming popular now when plasmas have been out for so long? Suddenly people are getting kuro blacks with inexpensive LGs with a simple turn of a screwdriver.

Given that black levels are probably the most talked about differentiating performance metric between rival plasma brands, how is it possible that this is just coming out now?
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post #979 of 1329
1/29/12 at 8:19am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by rpauls View Post

Isn't it a little hard to believe that this adjustment is just becoming popular now when plasmas have been out for so long? Suddenly people are getting kuro blacks with inexpensive LGs with a simple turn of a screwdriver.

Given that black levels are probably the most talked about differentiating performance metric between rival plasma brands, how is it possible that this is just coming out now?

It really comes down to the current (improved) panels being used, maybe a few tweakers did try in the past but the results were minimal.
No manner of adjustments on my 2008 LG PG25 comes close to what I was able to achieve with the PX950.
But for some black levels are not everything, even if I hadn't matched my brothers Panasonic ST30 MLL, I still much preferred the color and gray-scale on my LG PX950.
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post #980 of 1329
1/29/12 at 8:59am
Quote:
Originally Posted by rob80b View Post

It really comes down to the current (improved) panels being used, maybe a few tweakers did try in the past but the results were minimal.
No manner of adjustments on my 2008 LG PG25 comes close to what I was able to achieve with the PX950.
But for some black levels are not everything, even if I hadn't matched my brothers Panasonic ST30 MLL, I still much preferred the color and gray-scale on my LG PX950.

I agree completely that there is much more to PQ than black levels, but black levels can be easily measured, and are therefore often quoted in reviews. There is no doubt MLL sells. It's harder to quantify the other aspects. So far, which brands/years have been benefiting from the tweak? I've heard of at least one panasonic and one samsung.
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post #981 of 1329
1/29/12 at 9:51am
i did the tweaks all 7 and all was great and till today its flickering in bright scene,how can I get it to go away?
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post #982 of 1329
1/29/12 at 9:59am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by rpauls View Post

Isn't it a little hard to believe that this adjustment is just becoming popular now when plasmas have been out for so long?

Quote:
Originally Posted by wiremite View Post

I did get a kick out of tweaking my brother Bob's LG. Seeing in real tiime the grey bars turn pitch black was very satifying. The black level definitely matches (exceeds!?) my ST30 black levels. That a little analog knob could have so much control seems comical when you consider the advanced technology that gets poured into these panels.


I believe that's the reason this thread gained in popularity, once word got out that one could tweak/improve their set with just some time and a screw driver what was there to lose.
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post #983 of 1329
1/29/12 at 10:07am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by shield1280 View Post

i did the tweaks all 7 and all was great and till today its flickering in bright scene,how can I get it to go away?

Hi Shield,

Do you mean the whole image ore just specific areas of the image and does it happen with all sources? What are your settings, contrast, brightness, source etc, was something else changed in the chain?
And when you say all 7, why?
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post #984 of 1329
1/29/12 at 11:49am
Quote:
Originally Posted by rob80b View Post

Hi Shield,

Do you mean the whole image ore just specific areas of the image and does it happen with all sources? What are your settings, contrast, brightness, source etc, was something else changed in the chain?
And when you say all 7, why?

VZB____: noise (clockwise) or dullness (counterclockwise)
Vs_____: noisy whites/pixelmissfires (clockwise) or dullness/extreme pixelmissfires (counterclockwise)
VA_____: none obvious erros but possible pixelmissfires with static fullgreen screen (clockwise)
VSC____: None obvious errors or artifacts
Vy_____: noise/less MLL (clockwise) or better MLL (counterclockwise)
Set_Up_: pixelmissfires/better MLL (clockwise) or bad MLL (counterclockwise)
Set_Dn_: noise/better MLL (clockwise) or bad MLL.

contrast 80.brightness 54.sharpness H39 V24.color 50.

its not the whole image its just in the center and upper part of the tv.when its a white backgroound or a sky the it flickers.havent tried my br player yet,i notice this today on my satelite,but it wasent there the day before when i did this. iam going to try brightness at 52 and see if that helps.

PS:check my br player and popcorn,and its there but not as much as on satelite.
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post #985 of 1329
1/29/12 at 2:16pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by shield1280 View Post


its not the whole image its just in the center and upper part of the tv.when its a white backgroound or a sky the it flickers.havent tried my br player yet,i notice this today on my satelite,but it wasent there the day before when i did this. iam going to try brightness at 52 and see if that helps.

You may have to back off a bit on the Set_up if it bothers you, does it still appear after the set warms up.?
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post #986 of 1329
1/29/12 at 3:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by rob80b View Post

You may have to back off a bit on the Set_up if it bothers you, does it still appear after the set warms up.?

yes its still there even when the tv warm.i have lowerd my contrast to 70 and its alot better,i can still see it but its not so much when the contrast was set to 80.i will try to back it of on set_up tomorrow and see if it helps.thx for the help rob.
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post #987 of 1329
1/29/12 at 3:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by rob80b View Post

Obviously a scope is handy and you will see what you are doing, but unlike the voltage settings you can do Set_up/Ramp-up by eye, just note where the factory setting is.

Thanks for the nudge (and thread). I literally did not believe my eyes after this adjustment. But triple checking all my pattern measurements verifies its the real thing. No bad side effects as yet, I hope it sticks long term.
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post #988 of 1329
1/29/12 at 3:39pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by rob80b View Post

Try the Yrr (rising ramp time) clockwise as I mentioned in the previous post.if you haven't already.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post

Thanks for the nudge (and thread). I literally did not believe my eyes after this adjustment. But triple checking all my pattern measurements verifies its the real thing. No bad side effects as yet, I hope it sticks long term.

I guess the race is officially on now, time for you Samsungers to mosey on and start you're own thread
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post #989 of 1329
1/29/12 at 3:41pm
Started at 2pm today. here
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post #990 of 1329
1/29/12 at 3:42pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by rob80b View Post

I guess the race is officially on now, time for you Samsungers to mosey on and start you're own thread

Or even better, start on a new group thread "How low can you go"
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