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How long does it usually take SVP 10e to render 1hour 3D bluray ISO of TD10 3D video?

post #1 of 27
Thread Starter 
Just joining 3D videos taken by a Sony TD10 and rendering an ISO for burning a 3D Bluray.

How long does it normally take Sony Vegas Pro 10e to do a 1-hour compilation?

Just doing it right now and looks like it's gonna take an entire day!

I'm using the Sony MVC 1280x720-60p, 25 Mbps video stream Template.

BTW for some reason I do not see my ATI 4870 graphics card in the GPU acceleration option but I don't know if that even matters in this case as I am not using any transitions or effects of any kind.
post #2 of 27
The render time will depend on your hardware - in VP 10e mainly on your processor. ATI support was added with Vegas Pro 11, rendering support in Vegas Pro 10 was für nvidia only (and did not add a lot of performance).

Even with a fast i7 2600K overclocked to 4.4 Ghz rendering of 50i TD10 footage to 720 50p takes about two times of the video length. So what processor do you use?

Maybe you give Vegas 11 a try? But make an image of your system before you do so.
post #3 of 27
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfgang S. View Post

The render time will depend on your hardware - in VP 10e mainly on your processor. ATI support was added with Vegas Pro 11, rendering support in Vegas Pro 10 was für nvidia only (and did not add a lot of performance).

Even with a fast i7 2600K overclocked to 4.4 Ghz rendering of 50i TD10 footage to 720 50p takes about two times of the video length. So what processor do you use?

Maybe you give Vegas 11 a try? But make an image of your system before you do so.

My apologies, I'm actually using Sony Vegas Pro 11. My system includes an Intel i7 2.66 oc'd to 4.0ghz, 12gb DDR triple-channel, ATI 4870 1gb, Win7 64bit, 2xOCZ 60GB SSD in Raid0 where SVP11 is installed, and rendering to 2xWD Velociraptor 150GB drives in Raid0.

Hope that's enough info
post #4 of 27
Well, after checking the knowledge base the issue seems to be that your ATI card is not supported:

Quote:


AMD/ATI

Requires an OpenCL-enabled GPU and Catalyst driver 11.7 or later with a Radeon HD 57xx or higher GPU. If using a FirePro GPU, FirePro unified driver 8.85 or later is required.

https://www.custcenter.com/app/answe...t4XzFKaw%3D%3D
post #5 of 27
The variables in your question are too many to give a precise answer. Your best approach is to develop your own benchmarks using a standard length video clip. Even your i7 processor has so many varieties and core threads that the range of speed is quite wide.
post #6 of 27
Thread Starter 
Thanks for the feedback guys!

After about 3 hours I got the blue screen of death.

Trying PD10. Looks so much simpler, time remaining says 01:06:01 left
post #7 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by f13dfx View Post

After about 3 hours I got the blue screen of death.

But that is something that is not typical für Vegas Pro 10e.

Do you run an overclocked system?
post #8 of 27
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfgang S. View Post

But that is something that is not typical für Vegas Pro 10e.

Do you run an overclocked system?

I thought my i7 920 2.67ghz overclocked to 4.0ghz isn't stable enough to handle SVP 11
post #9 of 27
Thread Starter 
Well, I burned a 3D bluray of 1 hour & 45 minutes of Europe footage taken by Sony TD10 in PD10. The resulting bluray for the most part played fine, but I noticed that the video was jittery where there was a lot of motion involved. I'd say that the footage taken of still subjects and when I wasn't moving around were perfect.

Any explanation for the jittery part and how that could be cured in PD10?
post #10 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by f13dfx View Post

Well, I burned a 3D bluray of 1 hour & 45 minutes of Europe footage taken by Sony TD10 in PD10. The resulting bluray for the most part played fine, but I noticed that the video was jittery where there was a lot of motion involved. I'd say that the footage taken of still subjects and when I wasn't moving around were perfect.

Any explanation for the jittery part and how that could be cured in PD10?

Explanation is that the re-encoding done by PD10 to burn this to "bluray" is a compromise producing "less than optimum" results.

How about giving SVP a try at burning just the scenes (go back to the original material) that are jittery with PD10. Use 720p60 output from SVP. Does that give you better results? Did turning down the overclocking make SVP work? I haven't used 11 yet, though 10e had problems with crashing when there wasn't enough disk space on the system drive, and this can occur with SSDs which are typically smaller than hard drives.

The original bluray format allows 3D in 720p60-3D and 1080p24-3D, but not the native format of the TD10 camcorder, which is 1080i60-3D. This is why SVP and PD10 convert the bluray output, since 1080i60-3D is not compatible with "bluray."

There is an newer format than bluray, that can also be burned to bluray media, which is called AVCHD 2.0. AVCHD 2.0 allows the native 1080i60-3D of the TD10 to be played from bluray disks without needing to re-encode it or convert it.

Although AVCHD 2.0 can be burned to bluray BD-R media, the resulting disk is not a "bluray." The resulting disk is "AVCHD 2.0." The point is that there are very few players that will play this.

There is a discussion of the tool to burn these AVCHD 2.0 disks in the following thread. The tool (PMB 5.8) is free for TD10 users. Editing is limited to making trimmed segments and joining them. There are no menus, no transitions, no tweaking of the signal. The arguments put forth in the first posts by people other than the thread originator are not informative, and best ignored.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1364668

Since there is no re-encoding, the output is the exact same quality that the TD10 records. There is very little time spent waiting, other than burning the disk. Playback is currently limited to Sony 480 580 and 780 bluray players (updated firmware) on burned media. Joined file output from PMB can also be played back on the TD10 itself, or several software players.
post #11 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by f13dfx View Post

Well, I burned a 3D bluray of 1 hour & 45 minutes of Europe footage taken by Sony TD10 in PD10. The resulting bluray for the most part played fine, but I noticed that the video was jittery where there was a lot of motion involved. I'd say that the footage taken of still subjects and when I wasn't moving around were perfect.

Any explanation for the jittery part and how that could be cured in PD10?

I have posted a complete work flow for this in the PD10 thread. I have achieved full jitter stability for all shooting, including quick pans and snap zooms ( well, as snappy as I could do with the TD10 ) I have now replicated the results on 3 1 hour+ video projects.

My results are now a 3D BD in 1080 24p x 1920 with full 3D menus and DTS sound. The motion is as smooth as commercial movies on Blu Ray. Average bit rates measured on the disk are 18Mbs with peaks hitting 24Mbs.
post #12 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Landis View Post

I have posted a complete work flow for this in the PD10 thread. I have achieved full jitter stability for all shooting, including quick pans and snap zooms ( well, as snappy as I could do with the TD10 ) I have now replicated the results on 3 1 hour+ video projects.

My results are now a 3D BD in 1080 24p x 1920 with full 3D menus and DTS sound. The motion is as smooth as commercial movies on Blu Ray. Average bit rates measured on the disk are 18Mbs with peaks hitting 24Mbs.

Smooth 1080p24-3D from the TD10 going to bluray without requiring AVCHD 2.0 support is attractive since all 3D bluray players can play it in 3D.

Plus we can get the menu for the disk with PD10, which neither PMB nor SVP 11 alone do. DTS for the 5.1 is icing on the cake.

It takes a lot of steps and processing time to get there. PMB is comparatively clumsy to use, though we get the original 5.1 and full video quality. The Sony 480 AVCHD 2.0 player was less than $110 street price last time I looked.

I made an outline of Don's flow in the appropriate thread at this link:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...1#post21213701
post #13 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by f13dfx View Post

Well, I burned a 3D bluray of 1 hour & 45 minutes of Europe footage taken by Sony TD10 in PD10. The resulting bluray for the most part played fine, but I noticed that the video was jittery where there was a lot of motion involved.

Take care. Here you start with 1080 50i not with 1080 60i, as Don does. And you do not find a 720 50p template at the moment in PD10, what would be the easiest output form if you come from 1080 50i. Both the conversion to 1080 24p or 720 60p - the PD10 does not offer more at the moment - may be jittery.

The only thing that I still have not tested yetis if the conversion from 1080 50i to 1080 24p has been improved in Vegas Pro 11 really, and I still wonder a little bit that Don is satiesfied with the conversion 60i to 24p. In Vegas Pro 10e ist was not fine, result was jittery.
post #14 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfgang S. View Post

Take care. Here you start with 1080 50i not with 1080 60i, as Don does. And you do not find a 720 50p template at the moment in PD10, what would be the easiest output form if you come from 1080 50i. Both the conversion to 1080 24p or 720 60p - the PD10 does not offer more at the moment - may be jittery.

The only thing that I still have not tested yetis if the conversion from 1080 50i to 1080 24p has been improved in Vegas Pro 11 really, and I still wonder a little bit that Don is satiesfied with the conversion 60i to 24p. In Vegas Pro 10e ist was not fine, result was jittery.

Although he may be shooting in Europe, he might be using a 60i camcorder.

I would prefer that there be no conversion to 24p at all, but want the menus so PMB isn't good enough.

Does a European version of the Sony S480 player playback AVCHD 2.0 content made with PMB 5.8 that is 50i ??
post #15 of 27
Well, I do not know if he uses an NTSC or PAL model of the TD10.

If the Blu Ray player is able to playback AVCHD 2.0 - yes. The new Sony models have that capability.

If he uses 50i, a nice conversion to 24p is possible - with stretching the video by about 4% and deinterlacing. But that is not possible for 60i.
post #16 of 27
Thread Starter 
The TD10 European footage was shot in NTSC......if that's what you were wondering

I'm trying out the Nvidia GTX570 along with SVP11. With GPU acceleration it looks like it's rendering a 720-60p 3D Bluray ISO @ 6hours for every 20minutes of footage. Have my rig running @ 4ghz again stable so far. Just joing all the clips from footage shot in Barcelona (approx 100 minutes). No transitions or FX of any kind; only inserted markers for chapters. Just wanna burn a 3D bluray to play on PS3. At this rate it's going to take 30hours to create the ISO (per Don's workflow).

SVP11 benchmark page claims that for a 3.2ghz a GTX570 running in GPU accelerated mode is 3.9x faster than SVP10 when rendering AVC-HD.

Again there may be several variables, but is the above rate I'm getting 3.9x faster?

I'm wondering if I should stop and try Don's workflow to get jitter free results as outlined by Richard in PD10. Plus added to the fact that I am able to burn a bluray with menus, transitions and special FX.

Again my rig specs are:
Intel Core i7 920 overclocked to 4.0ghz.
12gb Corsair Triple-Channel DDR.
2x60gb OCZ SSD in Raid0 Win7-64 w/SVP11 & PD10.
2x150gb WD Velociraptors Raid0 for rendering to.
EVGA GTX 570 with latest drivers.
post #17 of 27
I think that is really long. Be aware that the increase in speed will also depend on what processor you use, and how the settings are.

I have done some tests, based on a small HDV project published in the SCS forum by an user.


http://www.sonycreativesoftware.com/...783&Replies=15

You could use his project to test your system - I took the third event in his project, what is about 15 seconds and includes a color correction. And rendered that with my i7 2600K 4.4 Ghz overclocked. His footage is 1080 50i, so I rendered to 720 50p.

My results are shown in the attachement - but using the GTX 570, I end up with 22 seconds, if I enable CUDA for the preview (preferences, view) AND cuda in the render dialog. So 22 seconds rendering time for 15 seconds footage would mean, that I end up with 30 Minutes for 20 Minutes footage. The differences I still see is that the test project uses HDV but not MVC footage, and it uses PAL footage not NTSC footage.

I have tested here also my Quadro 2000D and the GTX 570, and have compared that with pure CPU based rendering.

post #18 of 27
I have the following benchmarks for you-

On Machine #1
Quadcore Q9300 with 8Gb Ram rendering to a Raid) pair of 7200RPM 1 TB hard drives No GPU acceleration:

My SVP V11 rendering time is about 10:1 ( one hour timeline requires 10 hours rendering)
The timeline has numerous clips with slomo reverse, color correction, cropping and added CG titles and PIP graphics.

Machine #2
i7-950 with 12Gb Ram and Radeon HD6850 GPU 2 x 7200 RPM hard drives in Raid0

Bench mark on the same project is 5.5:1 ( one hour time line takes 5.5 hours to render)

End point is a 720 60p 1280 ISO file.

Rendering this same timeline to a TB Full 2160 24p x 1920 using MC AVC custom codec takes 9 hours. This file is then imported to PD10 for 3DBD authoring



Just for fun, I wanted to test my new computer on just a bunch of clips from the TD10 with no editing and the render time to ISO file was 1.5 to 1.
post #19 of 27
Thread Starter 
Hi Don,

Those benchmarks seem more logical. Is there another setting that I may have possibly missed (enabling CUDA in Preview settings). All I did was check to see in Preferences > Video > GPU Acceleration automatically defaulted to NVidia GTX card for this current rendering.

I'm on the road right now. Plan to go back home in 3hours to see if I have the CUDA setting enabled (although I never did see such a setting anywhere).
post #20 of 27
Thread Starter 
Don,

So is Machine #2 your new rig? Or have you put together a totally new Machine #3?

I'm thinking of doing a fresh install of Windows 7 64bit with just SVP11 and PD10 installed to see if things get better.
post #21 of 27
Quote:


So is Machine #2 your new rig? Or have you put together a totally new Machine #3?

#2 is the latest build and my fastest system. #3 is not for video editing, just web surfing and stock trading stuff. I rarely mention it here.

Quote:


I'm thinking of doing a fresh install of Windows 7 64bit with just SVP11 and PD10 installed to see if things get better.

My i7-950 is like that but I do have Photoshop and some other apps installed that I use related to video editing.
post #22 of 27
Thread Starter 
Thanks for the info Don. Gonna reinstall Windows 7 with SVP11 and will report back
post #23 of 27
Have you performed a ram test on your system? Didn't you once report a BSOD? That is commonly caused by some bad ram. James posted some references elsewhere to a test for this. I thought he said it is best to do the test before installing OS. FWIW- I did not do the test.
post #24 of 27
Thread Starter 
Okay, happy to report so far that I did a fresh install of Windows 7 64bit with SVP11 all by itself and right now rendering at a rate of 2:1.

Will report back after I burn and view ISO.
post #25 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by f13dfx View Post

Okay, happy to report so far that I did a fresh install of Windows 7 64bit with SVP11 all by itself and right now rendering at a rate of 2:1.

So, the benchmarks were not absurd really. For a 15 sekond testclip (HDV plus color correction) the rendering time was 31 seconds, so 2:1. With the usage of cuda and the Geforce GTX570 I see an improvement to 22 seconds, so something about 1.5:1.

Since I had used 720 50p MVC, I have redone the same test with 1080 24p too:

CPU only, Cuda preview disabled: 38 seconds or 2.5 :1
CPU only, Cuda preview enabled to GTX 570: 33 seconds or 2.2 :1
Use GPU if available, Cuda preview enabled to GTX 570: 31 seconds or 2.1 :1

Since you also use a GTX 570, it is worthwile to play with the different combinations of the render dialog (CPU only, GPU if available, automatic) and the preferences/views setting (no cuda, cuda support by GTX 570). Different combinations will deliver different numbers!
post #26 of 27
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfgang S. View Post

Since you also use a GTX 570, it is worthwile to play with the different combinations of the render dialog (CPU only, GPU if available, automatic) and the preferences/views setting (no cuda, cuda support by GTX 570).

Hi Wolfgang,

Can you step me through where you change the preferences/views setting (no cuda, cuda support by GTX 570) that you are able to access.

Also, what version drivers are you using?

Thanks in advance.
post #27 of 27
You have two settings:

1) you can enable or disable the cuda support for the preview. This is done in the options/preferences/video, and there the GPU setting (it is the third). You can set this to off or to a GPU, for me there are two nvidia Corporation (Geforce GTX 570 and Quadro 2000D).

2) the second setting enables or disables the render suppor in the render dialog of the AVC encoders - so for example in the Sony AVC encoder you finde at customization template and video the point "encode mode", where you have the choice between "rendering using CPU only" or "automatic" or "rendering useing GPU if available".

For the GTX 570, I use the 285.62, for my Quadro I use 285.58.

Vegas is Pro 11 build 425.
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