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Frankenstein Theater Project

post #1 of 185
11/13/11 at 4:05pm
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So I've been looking to build an HT for a while but never had the room, now having moved over the summer I have a large room to use as a base (14'Wx22'Lx11'H) so I can finally start moving forward.
Lounge Floor Plan:

As with all rooms there'll be compromises, the room is fairly open to the rest of the house (I'm planning on curtains to fill those gaps) so I won't be putting too much time/effort into sound proofing. There are windows on my screen wall so I'll have to build a false wall/screen wall to cover them:
Screen Wall Plan:

My current plan is for two rows of seating (of which we'll use the front one and an existing sofa will provide the overflow) and then a bar/bar stool area at the back:

The room is on the second floor of the house so it's very easy to get underneath to run power/wiring etc. but above are the bedrooms (and solid floors) so it's much harder to go up.
We also have existing hardwood floors so the stage & riser will be floating structures (I can connect into the walls but not the floors) and I won't be carpeting them or the room.

Pictures of the room:
Screen wall:

Right wall:

Left wall (front):

Left wall (rear):

Rear Wall:
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post #2 of 185
11/13/11 at 4:06pm
Thread Starter 
Visual:
Projector: Panasonic AE4000
Screen: DIY AT - actual size TBD but big

Audio:
Amp: Pioneer VSX - 1021K
LCR: 3 x Triad on-wall Bronze
Sub Amp: Episode EA-AMP-SUB-1D-500
Sub: 2 x Episode ES-SUB-IW-DUAL8
Surrounds: 6 x Polk OWM3

Sources:
DirectTv whole home DVR (this could be a project in it's own right).
Apple TV (iTunes & Netflix)
Blue ray player - Sony
My own PC

Other:
Rack 1: Snap AV16U
Rack2: Snap AV16U

Acoustic & Fabric
OC 703
Wall treatment/frames - DMD Acoustic
- Blue 15 yards
- Black 8 yards (+5 screen wall) = 13
Curtain 1 - 9'x5'
Curtain 2 - 9'x6'
Curtain 3 - 5' x (19"-62")

Lighting
Insteon SmartLinc
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post #3 of 185
11/13/11 at 4:07pm
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Open Questions:
Things I need to resolve as this project progresses.

What to do about AT:
With hard floors and only really one wall where I can do Acoustic Treatment, I'm thinking of deadening the front wall and adding base traps in the screen wall corners, most of the left wall will be curtains anyway, I'm not sure it's worth doing much more.
I might also add vents to the riser so that it can act as a base trap.

Projector throw:
It looks like the throw distance will be 21-19', I decided to mount the PJ on the rear wall as otherwise I'd have to drop down 3+ feet from the ceiling and then work out how to get the wires to the PJ too, the downside to this is that the throw range is going to be longer than I'd like, I can reduce it by a couple of feet by using a longer wall mount but I'll still be looking at ~19'

Seating:
The second row will be the sofa that you can see in the photos, the front row may well end up being theater seats/recliners as most of the 4 seat sofas we've seen are in a similar price range ($1.5K - $2K).

HVAC:
We have two feeds into the room (in floor at front and rear of room), I'll be extending the front one to exit at the front of the stage. I'm not sure what to do about return feed (or if I need to, the room's not really going to be that well sealed but I don't know how hot it's going to get in there with the equipment + PJ + bodies.

Lighting:
There are 4 downlights currently in the room, I think I'll add additional lighting to the screen wall as otherwise it's going to be pretty dark in there, not sure otherwise.
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post #4 of 185
11/13/11 at 4:08pm
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Reserved for later updates 2
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post #5 of 185
11/13/11 at 4:08pm
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Reserved for later updates 3
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post #6 of 185
11/14/11 at 12:34pm
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Does anyone have any feedback on my rough screen wall design above?
I'm not sure if I should plan on the L&R speakers being outside the screen or if that puts them too close to the walls (and the unshown corner base traps) or should I also put them behind the screen?
On the subs, am I better off putting them under the screen as shown or further apart?
Also does anyone know if I can just frame this wall and have it open at the back and covered in material panels at the front or if I need to plan on sheetrocking the back so that the in-wall speakers sound better (or will it have no effect)?
All of the front speakers are in the screen wall so that the stage (probably 8" high) will be clear for children productions.
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post #7 of 185
11/14/11 at 2:00pm
Have you purchased your projector already? Have you done any tests with the it at that throw distance & screen size? That's an ambitious size of screen & throw for the AE4000U, I'd be concerned with it as your brightness is going to suffer greatly I think with it over time.

Do you have plans yet on what screen your going to match it with? I don't know if there is an AT screen material with a high enough gain to give you the brightness you'd need for the picture quality.

For example: Seymour AV Center Stage XD screen material is 1.2 gain (Which I just received for my AE4000U). With that material and your screen size you're throw should be around 15'. If you want a 20' throw you'd probably need at least a 2.0 gain screen which I don't think you'd find in an acoustic transparent material.

Others might have to give advice on it, it's just my first thought.

Nice space though, I really like the sunken living room!
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post #8 of 185
11/14/11 at 4:16pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by secondhander View Post

Have you purchased your projector already? Have you done any tests with the it at that throw distance & screen size? That's an ambitious size of screen & throw for the AE4000U, I'd be concerned with it as your brightness is going to suffer greatly I think with it over time.

Do you have plans yet on what screen your going to match it with? I don't know if there is an AT screen material with a high enough gain to give you the brightness you'd need for the picture quality.

For example: Seymour AV Center Stage XD screen material is 1.2 gain (Which I just received for my AE4000U). With that material and your screen size you're throw should be around 15'. If you want a 20' throw you'd probably need at least a 2.0 gain screen which I don't think you'd find in an acoustic transparent material.

Others might have to give advice on it, it's just my first thought.

Nice space though, I really like the sunken living room!

I've not purchased the projector and I also have concerns about the throw range & screen size, I'm not sure what else to try though in a similar price range, any suggestions?
I'm thinking of going with the Center Stage XD also as it seems to be one of the better AT materials.
The issue I'm struggling with is the ceiling height, the only other idea I've had on how to bring the projector forward is to build a half/false wall from the ceiling down above the bar to close to top of screen height and mount the projector on that?
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post #9 of 185
11/14/11 at 4:26pm
I think something above the bar would work for the projector. Also, I'd cover up the fireplace - you could use fabric covered panels on the entire side walls like the Bacon Race theater. And I'd consider tying in the riser with the existing steps from the foyer instead of stepping down to theater level, then back up the riser.
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post #10 of 185
11/14/11 at 4:36pm
I'd pull the bar towards the screen so the back side aligns with the wing wall that separates the two sections of steps. And extend the bar all the way to the wing wall. You would have one step down to the riser level, then turn left and have two steps down to the floor.

To get to the bar you go through that living room area. It would also make the bar area a little more roomy.

I'd cover the wet bar and that little recess on the same side (closer to the screen) with acoustic panels (bury and abandon the bar). You could put your equipment cabinet to the right of the existing wet bar.

Build a plant shelf along the sloped wall that opens into the foyer.

You're close enough to the screen that you don't need a huge one. My distances are similar and I really like my ~44" tall 2.35 screen.
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post #11 of 185
11/14/11 at 5:38pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by petew View Post

I think something above the bar would work for the projector. Also, I'd cover up the fireplace - you could use fabric covered panels on the entire side walls like the Bacon Race theater. And I'd consider tying in the riser with the existing steps from the foyer instead of stepping down to theater level, then back up the riser.

I'm leaving the fireplace for the moment but covering it with fabric panels could well be an option.
I like the idea of combining the riser with the steps, the only problem is the height, currently the riser calc comes out at ~12" and the steps are 8".
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post #12 of 185
11/14/11 at 5:46pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by petew View Post

I'd pull the bar towards the screen so the back side aligns with the wing wall that separates the two sections of steps. And extend the bar all the way to the wing wall. You would have one step down to the riser level, then turn left and have two steps down to the floor.

To get to the bar you go through that living room area. It would also make the bar area a little more roomy.

I'd cover the wet bar and that little recess on the same side (closer to the screen) with acoustic panels (bury and abandon the bar). You could put your equipment cabinet to the right of the existing wet bar.

Build a plant shelf along the sloped wall that opens into the foyer.

You're close enough to the screen that you don't need a huge one. My distances are similar and I really like my ~44" tall 2.35 screen.

That's an interesting idea that I hadn't thought of, let me tape it out on the floor and see what it looks like in reality, I'm reluctant to go too far forward as I'm currently probably close to 1:1 screen width to viewing distance for the front row.
The wet bar will be staying as that's where the popcorn and drinks dispensers are going (W&KAF)
The equipment will have to go at the back so that the stage is unhindered (same reason that the front speakers and subs are all in the screen wall).
I still have to work out the actual screen dimensions (once I've tried out a few to get an idea of how it really looks once the screen wall is in place), I'm leaning towards a combined 1:35/9:16 that would be around 130"x63" (I saw another theater build with this idea and it looks like a great way to cover the two formats).
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post #13 of 185
11/14/11 at 7:09pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Expat444 View Post

...currently the riser calc comes out at ~12" and the steps are 8".

A 16" riser should work out okay. With the bar top at 42" it's still above the back of the rear row sofa.

Challenging project you've got there!
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post #14 of 185
11/14/11 at 7:54pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by petew View Post


A 16" riser should work out okay. With the bar top at 42" it's still above the back of the rear row sofa.

Challenging project you've got there!

Tell me about it! I'm trying to keep the scope within the bounds of time & budget whilst ending up with a. Great room that the whole family will enjoy.........
At some point I need to sort out all my video sources and universal remote so that the family can operate the HT whilst I'm away.
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post #15 of 185
11/15/11 at 10:18am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by petew View Post


A 16" riser should work out okay. With the bar top at 42" it's still above the back of the rear row sofa.

Challenging project you've got there!

So I've looked at the room, an 8" riser will work, I can't do an 18" on without the step down at the front blocking the cupboard under the existing bar, I'll re-run the riser calc to see if I can raise the screen (within sensible limits) to get this to fit.
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post #16 of 185
11/15/11 at 11:38pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Expat444 View Post


So I've looked at the room, an 8" riser will work, I can't do an 18" on without the step down at the front blocking the cupboard under the existing bar, I'll re-run the riser calc to see if I can raise the screen (within sensible limits) to get this to fit.

So the plans have changed to accommodate the change in riser design, it will now fit flush against the lower step so it will be two steps down into the room then one more step down if you head to the front row of seats or back to the bar, I thought about extending the bar the full width if the room but don't like how it will effect the flow.
LL
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post #17 of 185
11/16/11 at 6:02pm
Thread Starter 
Further updates and questions, thanks for all the great comments and suggestions, the design has already changed significantly.

Here's a new of image to reflect my current ideas on the screen wall layout:
1) Are the speakers in the screen wall in the right places (should the L & R be as shown or behind the AT screen and are the subs in the correct place?
2) I'm thinking of adding a false 3' wall down from the ceiling above the bar and mounting the projector on it as it will shorten the throw distance to ~15' and we could also mount the second set of Polk OWM 3s on it where it meets the wall. This wall will be a frame covered with dark colored AT cloth (same as the screen wall). Any thoughts?
3) I'm wondering about using Polk OWM 5s instead of the OWM 3s as the rear surrounds and still mounting them on the rear wall above the sliding door to get more of a rear presence. What does everyone think?
LL
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post #18 of 185
11/18/11 at 12:35am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Expat444 View Post

Further updates and questions, thanks for all the great comments and suggestions, the design has already changed significantly.

Here's a new of image to reflect my current ideas on the screen wall layout:
1) Are the speakers in the screen wall in the right places (should the L & R be as shown or behind the AT screen and are the subs in the correct place?
2) I'm thinking of adding a false 3' wall down from the ceiling above the bar and mounting the projector on it as it will shorten the throw distance to ~15' and we could also mount the second set of Polk OWM 3s on it where it meets the wall. This wall will be a frame covered with dark colored AT cloth (same as the screen wall). Any thoughts?
3) I'm wondering about using Polk OWM 5s instead of the OWM 3s as the rear surrounds and still mounting them on the rear wall above the sliding door to get more of a rear presence. What does everyone think?

Ok, another minor modification to the screen wall, I've repositioned the speakers, I'll be refining the overall measurements in the next couple of days as I'm trying to get the design locked down as that's the first major item that's going to get built:
LL
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post #19 of 185
11/18/11 at 6:52am
Don't overbuild the screen wall. Check out this minimalist screen wall thread.

I would recommend doing the screen wall last, after your bar is built, after you have the projector installed.
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post #20 of 185
11/18/11 at 8:03am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by petew View Post

Don't overbuild the screen wall. Check out this minimalist screen wall thread.

I would recommend doing the screen wall last, after your bar is built, after you have the projector installed.

Thanks, that's a great thread I've been following with interest, the current screen plan wall is literally framing to support the speakers and the screen, covered by cloth covered panels for what isn't covered by the screen.
We're planning on building the screen wall first as it has all the speakers etc to be fitted into it but we'll be using a temporary screen for a while whilst we finish the room, get the PJ mounted and work out what screen size we actually want to install.
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post #21 of 185
11/18/11 at 8:21am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Expat444 View Post

Thanks, that's a great thread I've been following with interest, the current screen plan wall is literally framing to support the speakers and the screen, covered by cloth covered panels for what isn't covered by the screen.
We're planning on building the screen wall first as it has all the speakers etc to be fitted into it but we'll be using a temporary screen for a while whilst we finish the room, get the PJ mounted and work out what screen size we actually want to install.

I have read more than a few bad stories about what the dirt has done to projectors while the room was being finished.. I would mount it, test it and remove it till all sawing and sanding is complete and cleaned up.
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post #22 of 185
11/18/11 at 9:03am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Expat444 View Post

I'm leaning towards a combined 1:35/9:16 that would be around 130"x63"

I like the way you think!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Expat444 View Post

Are the speakers in the screen wall in the right places (should the L & R be as shown or behind the AT screen and are the subs in the correct place?

Most AT builds I've seen (including mine) put all three speakers behind the screen. There are advantages to keeping the speakers out of the corners (can be mitigated if not avoidable); and any effect of material in front of the three speakers will be the same. Also note that further apart does not always mean wider soundstage. I put my L&R pretty close to the 2.35 screen edges, inboard maybe 6 inches or so, with a hard toe-in, crossing in front of the LP, and the soundstage is very large.

As far as sub placement, there's really no way of knowing for sure until you try and measure, room interactions vary so much. Ideally, multiple subs wouldn't all be up front - but from an aesthetics perspective, many put them there (myself included - firing into opposite corners behind the false wall worked best for me, of available choices of locations behind the screen). Better from an acoustics perspective would have likely been mid-wall on different walls, but my subs are huge, and I wanted them hidden.
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post #23 of 185
11/18/11 at 9:08am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by airscapes View Post

I have read more than a few bad stories about what the dirt has done to projectors while the room was being finished.. I would mount it, test it and remove it till all sawing and sanding is complete and cleaned up.

Absolutely, it will only be in the room to make sure that we can mount it correctly to the false wall then it will be back in it's box until the room (except for the real screen) is finished.
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post #24 of 185
11/18/11 at 9:16am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad Horstkotte View Post

I like the way you think!



Most AT builds I've seen (including mine) put all three speakers behind the screen. There are advantages to keeping the speakers out of the corners (can be mitigated if not avoidable); and any effect of material in front of the three speakers will be the same. Also note that further apart does not always mean wider soundstage. I put my L&R pretty close to the 2.35 screen edges, inboard maybe 6 inches or so, with a hard toe-in, crossing in front of the LP, and the soundstage is very large.

As far as sub placement, there's really no way of knowing for sure until you try and measure, room interactions vary so much. Ideally, multiple subs wouldn't all be up front - but from an aesthetics perspective, many put them there (myself included - firing into opposite corners behind the false wall worked best for me, of available choices of locations behind the screen). Better from an acoustics perspective would have likely been mid-wall on different walls, but my subs are huge, and I wanted them hidden.

Thanks for the great input, I understand what you mean about placing the subs in other locations but for the moment I'm also planning on putting all the speakers either in the front wall or wall mounted at head height for the surrounds.
That way the stage and floor will be kept clear for the kids productions......
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post #25 of 185
11/18/11 at 9:24am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad Horstkotte View Post

I like the way you think!

Thanks, I've been following your build thread with interest and you were the one that gave me the idea!
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post #26 of 185
11/18/11 at 10:08am
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Updated room taping to show modified riser and false wall above bar:
1) Taken from back left corner, at top of wavy stairs.
2&3) Middle left side of room, at top of straight stairs.
4) From front/stage/screen wall.
LL
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post #27 of 185
11/18/11 at 10:15am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad Horstkotte View Post


As far as sub placement, there's really no way of knowing for sure until you try and measure, room interactions vary so much. Ideally, multiple subs wouldn't all be up front - but from an aesthetics perspective, many put them there (myself included - firing into opposite corners behind the false wall worked best for me, of available choices of locations behind the screen). Better from an acoustics perspective would have likely been mid-wall on different walls, but my subs are huge, and I wanted them hidden.

There's the potential that I could either move the subs to the right wall or add additional ones to that wall later, there aren't really any good places on the back or left walls to move/add them.
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post #28 of 185
11/21/11 at 10:39pm
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So I need to decide what to use to fill the window spaces that will be behind the screen wall (which will be lined with 1" OC703), I was thinking of using either thick polystyrene sheets from HD or I just found that they stock OC Foamular F-250 http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/...62&R=202085962
What does everyone think?
Thanks
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post #29 of 185
11/22/11 at 8:41pm
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Current iteration of build plans, I'm going to modify the screen wall & curtain wall to use 24" spacing so that I can insulate with OC703 later if I decide to go that route.
Anyone have any comments?
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post #30 of 185
11/22/11 at 10:51pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Expat444 View Post

Current iteration of build plans, I'm going to modify the screen wall & curtain wall to use 24" spacing so that I can insulate with OC703 later if I decide to go that route.
Anyone have any comments?

Not sure I follow - do you mean 24" OC stud spacing, or 24" between false wall and back wall, or ?

One doesn't usually use OC703 for insulation (in the wall) - rather, for acoustic absorption (on the wall).
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