Decision time: HSU VTF-15h (2) or CHT VS-18.1 (2) - Page 8

The respective rooms will dominate the sound there, and graphs will be posted here.

FYI, crazyravr and myself are getting together this thurs evening.

Tesseract, as for a graph, here is one for my room.

Hey Jim....would you mind if I crash the party....since I'm not doing anything Thrs evening anyways?

Drop in Bill :-)

Just for fun, here's the FR graph of the CHT CS-18.T subs the OP heard last weekend...

Oh crap...the missus is working evenings that night...I'll see if I can arrange something and I'll let you know.
Thanks, Bill...

What kind of smoothing/resolution are you two using for the graphs?

Those CHT subs aren't mine, so I don't know what smoothing factor is being used. I've PM'd the subs' owner - it's up to him to chime in (or not) with the info.

This is a good question, one I was wondering myself. But LF extension does shows through regardless of the resolution.

I was just informed that "smoothing is 1/6th" for the CHT graph.

My 18.T's look nothing like that graph in my room. I'm relatively flat until about 25 Hz then its downhill from there. I'm jealous

So am I.

Then again, my room's a little over 50% larger than his (~3,375 cu.ft. for me vs. ~2,025 cu.ft. for him) and I'm flat to ~17Hz with my SS-18.T before things drop off. Not too shabby...

no smoothing 1/48th. A big difference between 1/6 and 1/48.

Isn't it a little unfair to make such a statement about this sub since:
-Wasn't it improperly leveled???
-It was one sub when most everything you listened to cost twice as much and/or were dual config.
-When I saw it rated close with the BIC F12 I about pee'd myself. I have both of these subs and the BIC F12 doesn't even come close to the F15.
I know it isn't the best sub, but it seems like there were some preconceived notions before this even took place....and I think you can tell that from how the thread spoke mainly of 3 subs.
Yes, I'm aware that a Submersive and Captivator would destroy my Rythmik, but come on dude.

Hey, how'd my graph get over here? Yes the 18.1T graph is mine. The Omnimic does default to 1/6 smoothing so that's what I happened to use. I did run it with other settings, but it's still basically flat with just more ripples, similar to yours. 'sputter1' you have a great graph, glad to see both setups have nice FR. My room is 15x18 basement room, EQd with Audyssey Multi EQ-XT, and some minor tweeking on the Dayton amp EQ. Very happy with my results, as you should be with yours. Enjoy the bass!!

Hey F1 - About 2,000 ish cubes +/- 150 cubes or so. Great size for dual sealed subs. That's some impressive room gain! Ever though of measuring it? What the room is adding to the natural response of the subs?

Hey PBC,
You can send me a PM on how to measure that. I know you've posted it before, just can't remember where. Don't have much time for monkeying around with measurements (little kids), but the Omnimic sure makes it easier.

Hey, if you're ever in this neck of the woods and feel like doing some measuring...

Or you can just post it here so I can know how to do that too.

Or feel free to PM the info.

OFF TOPIC - SORRY OP -- but I'll answer this question...

Do you prefer master violinist in a professional sports stadium?

My point was just that it got lost in the room. I meant no offense in the humerous attempt at portraying that.

Take a look at the average scores... It wasn't a bad sub, but to really compete with the others that day would have likely required quads (or more). Every single other sub that followed seemed quite a bit more audible --- the votes show that to be the case in nearly all opinions. I mean no foul and no disrespect. The rythmic sub in multples would likely be very well received. Remember that my personal preference for home theater is for the kind of volume and tactile feedback you feel in a hatchback with a couple quality subs.

I know the feeling, got a 4 year old and another on the way. Not much time for anything these days.

.... and my MobilePre went bust a few days before I met with Jim and Bill at Jim's house (Sputter). Here's a thread where I "think" I got it right near the end (see post 80) ... admittedly no one responded as to whether it was a correct method.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...1#post20284941

Hmmm .... looking at this now I think my room gain numbers are off as I was comparing to the post EQ'd line at the LP vs the pre-EQ line at the LP.

In a nut shell you'd need to measure the following way:

1. Make sure Audyssey is disables for all tests.
2. Make sure the Dayton amp is not providing a boost or any EQ.
3. Unplug all speakers from your AVR. Plug the subwoofer into a single FL or FR preout. Ensure the FR and FL speakers are set to large to defeat any crossover.
4. Put the sub in the center of the room (actually, this isn't overly necessary as my measurements were almost identical at 0.5" regardless).
5. Put the mic on a stand, and place the end of the mic directly facing the center of the driver, about 0.5" away.
6. Run a sweep in REW or OmniMic (make sure you don't have clipping so you may need to keep the volume low given the mic is so close).
7. Plug the sub back into the subwoofer output, and and run a sweep with say a 120hz cross-over (no rhyme or reason to the x-over).
8. Now put the sub into it's main position. Place the Mic at the LP and keep it in that exact position.
9. Run the same sweep with the 120hz crossover.
10. Plug the sub back into the FR or FL preout and again set the speakers to large and defeat any crossovers.
11. Run the sweep again with the mic not moved from the OP.

Once you have all these sweeps, you then have to figure out where to "line them up" on the graph. I'm assuming Omnimic (I think you use that) has functionality similar to REW that lets you put all those sweeps on one graph, and then let's you move each sweep line up or down on the grid?

Hard to explain in words, but once you have the sweeps you'll see what I mean. I think you only need 3 measurements but I just can't recall which.

I'll have to go back to that session one day to check the measurements an remove the smoothing (just found smoothing helped with figuring out where to line them up).

Edit: May be worth starting another thread here or in the DIY section on doing these measurements as others can help out. Or just tack on to my thread above.

So you're saying the only way to get good bass in that room is to buy 4-$1000 Rythmiks or a couple $2000 subs? Or are you saying to get the kind of tactile feel that you like, you'd need 4 of them?. My room is larger than his...but I sit near field. I have all the bass I want in my sweet spot, but to fill the room I'd need 1 more. 4 would be insane. I'm not trying to attack you...it just seems unfair to comment at all on the Rythmik if the level was set too low. Anyway...sorry OP.

Four rythmics in a 4000 cubic foot room would be my preferencial minimum - or a smaller demo room. Kwarney said it was auditioned at the limits of its known comfort levels. That fact was also evidenced by the visual of the intense driver movement. Let's move this discussion to PM or the huskeromaha thread.

Perhaps insanity should be my plea ;p

I thought this might be worth repeating.... any sign of the OP? Its been awhile, curious if he has auditioned the VTF-15 (or still plans to).

I believe Jim (Sputter) had mentioned it in post 212 above about getting together.

Thanks, I missed that amidst the other stuff!

You're going about it the right way:
- Narrow down your selections to one or two (or a few) options.
- Audition them (or similar), if possible.
- Buy and enjoy.

As mentioned previously, I'm really curious to know how you end up liking the VTF-15H subs and also how you think they compare to the CHT subs. Unlike some folks, I find a subjective opinion to be just as interesting as a pretty chart. It's not as "objectively definitive", to be sure, but it's interesting nonetheless.

How good is your aural memory? Most people would be hard pressed to make an accurate comparison between different subs in different rooms on different days. Hopefully your impressions will be sufficient, but many would find the task difficult. Even with both subs in the same room A/B testing can be difficult, that's why charts and graphs were invented!

I agree...we had 3 different subs in Sputter's room and it was difficult trying to discern which was which or sounded better. In the end... I believe asthetics and cost will play a large part in the decision...JMO.

They, along with subjective opinion, usually do. At the end of the day, the important thing is to be happy with what you bought - you like how it looks, how it sounds to you in your HT space, and what it cost - and not what graphs tell you you *should* have bought.