I need some advice on 2 conductor in wall speaker wire. I was about ready to order AudioQuest FLX-14/2 14 guage in wall wire. I checked the Monoprice site and found some 12AWG CL2 for a lot less $$. Other than the guage, what is the difference? Please help.
I'm trying to complete this small in wall project in my living room...mounting my UN55C8000 Samsung and running the needed wires. I have the HDMI and speaker wire figured out. I want to run out of the back of the TV's optical out with a toslink optical cable back to my processor for things like Pandora, which I found out that the TV only sends a stereo signal. I'm okay with that.
My problem is that I can't seem to find an optical cable approved for in wall installation. Why? Any help here??
My easy solution is to simply use the Blu-Ray's apps, but I really like the app format on the TV.
Perhaps I should have asked unrelated speaker questions on a different section...sorry.
Your right but I thought I read somewhere that Audioquest uses pure silver in some of their cables which is said to be a better conductor than copper. I would imagine it could get pretty expensive but I swear that I read they use pure silver in something. I then read in a completely different article that silver is actually a better conductor than gold plate. Can anyone here confirm this or am I just imagining things?
Anyhow, I like to use 12 guage for everything. If you get it from Monoprice, its not that much more expensive and I know if I used anything thinner, I would always be wandering, what if. I guess its more of a piece of mind type thing. If you have the money then why not? Right?
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Originally Posted by ObsceneJesster /forum/post/21222046
I then read in a completely different article that silver is actually a better conductor than gold plate. Can anyone here confirm this or am I just imagining things?
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Anyhow, I like to use 12 guage for everything. If you get it from Monoprice, its not that much more expensive and I know if I used anything thinner, I would always be wandering, what if. I guess its more of a piece of mind type thing. If you have the money then why not? Right?
I get my piece of mind knowing that I didn't spend any more than I had to and still get the best results possible. There's more useful things to spend my hard earned on than copper I don't need.
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But perhaps since optical cables are not electric there is no code covering them
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Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice /forum/post/21222219
I get my piece of mind knowing that I didn't spend any more than I had to and still get the best results possible. There's more useful things to spend my hard earned on than copper I don't need.
I understand where your coming from. My front sound stage only needed 16 gauge but my surrounds needed 12. It was just easier buying the 12 in bulk than splitting it up between two different sizes.
There is a band wagon of "it's just snake oil" fanboys just as big as the band wagon of "it's worth the money for premium cables" fanboys, and each group will reference tests and charts and electrical theory and critical listening sessions until they wear their finger tips off typing responses and counter responses.
From my real-world, professional AV sales/install/tuning career and my own personal ownership of high-end A/V products I've come to the conclusion that to me there is an audible to the naked ear difference between solid and stranded copper cable of different qualities and constructions, but whether it's worth the extra money is up for debate. If you A/B compare speaker wire on something as simple as a $100 boom box with a good demo track you can hear a subtle difference in the sound quality between 2 types of cables. I went from AQ Type2 speaker (preterminated w/ banana plugs) to AQ Gibraltar speaker wires (preterminated with banana plugs) for my Martin Logan Theos speakers and there was a definite and audible difference between the two. Whether it was worth hundreds of dollars is debatable but for peace of mind I didn't wan't my $5,000/pr speakers hooked up with $210/pr speaker wires that could potentially degrade the sound. I use monoprice or basic AQ bulk wire wire for all my in-ceiling ambient music speakers with my Sonos system and it works great for that, but I'd never use it on my primary system, I like more insulation and thicker conductors of heavier gauge and solid (non-stranded) copper. Your speaker wires are typically running passed a bunch of high current devices in most systems so if your wire is just protected by a 1/32" rubber sleeve that seems like an obvious entry point for interference.
I wouldn't guarantee that there are no code implications for optical cable. Part of the building code is preventing the spread of fire through firebreaks etc even if the cable is not the cause of the fire. I'd still look for an in-wall rated cable on that basis. In the event of a fire your insurance company would love to deny coverage if they could.
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Originally Posted by mopar04 /forum/post/21231648
There is a band wagon of "it's just snake oil" fanboys just as big as the band wagon of "it's worth the money for premium cables" fanboys, and each group will reference tests and charts and electrical theory and critical listening sessions until they wear their finger tips off typing responses and counter responses.
The only valid method of testing cables is double-blind. To date no properly conducted double-blind tests have ever shown any correlation between price and performance. We engineers never dismiss proven results. But the cable industry is even shorter on proof than it is long on claims.
I dont have the money to spend in godly ammounts on speaker cables however, if I had the money....Why not? Everyone has a different opinion and im not going to sit here and tell someone they wasted there money. If its a piece of mind thing, I get it. If whether or not you can really hear a difference or if its all just in your head, that's not for me to decide or dispute.
To all the new guys here wandering if high end cables make a difference, I would say this. Unless you've spent thousands of dollars on your speakers, what's the point in using cables that cost almost as much as the speakers themselves. Get yourself a roll of 12-14 AWG and use it for all of your speakers. That way, you dont have to worry about measurements or purchasing multiple sizes. If you get the cable from Monoprice, you might save yourself a couple dollars going with 16AWG over 14AWG and if that couple of dollars is worth it then so be it. Its not worth it to me, therefore I use 12AWG on all my runs whether they are 10 feet or 40 feet.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mopar04 /forum/post/21231648
There is a band wagon of "it's just snake oil" fanboys just as big as the band wagon of "it's worth the money for premium cables" fanboys, and each group will reference tests and charts and electrical theory and critical listening sessions until they wear their finger tips off typing responses and counter responses.
From my real-world, professional AV sales/install/tuning career and my own personal ownership of high-end A/V products I've come to the conclusion that to me there is an audible to the naked ear difference between solid and stranded copper cable of different qualities and constructions, but whether it's worth the extra money is up for debate. If you A/B compare speaker wire on something as simple as a $100 boom box with a good demo track you can hear a subtle difference in the sound quality between 2 types of cables. I went from AQ Type2 speaker (preterminated w/ banana plugs) to AQ Gibraltar speaker wires (preterminated with banana plugs) for my Martin Logan Theos speakers and there was a definite and audible difference between the two. Whether it was worth hundreds of dollars is debatable but for peace of mind I didn't wan't my $5,000/pr speakers hooked up with $210/pr speaker wires that could potentially degrade the sound. I use monoprice or basic AQ bulk wire wire for all my in-ceiling ambient music speakers with my Sonos system and it works great for that, but I'd never use it on my primary system, I like more insulation and thicker conductors of heavier gauge and solid (non-stranded) copper. Your speaker wires are typically running passed a bunch of high current devices in most systems so if your wire is just protected by a 1/32" rubber sleeve that seems like an obvious entry point for interference.
mopar04, I'll have to agree with u on this! I, too, have AQ for my HT system. Each time I've made the upgrade, I've heard things I didn't hear before. At this time, I'm using Volcanos for the front three speakers (Dynaudio C2s). And for interconnects, I went from Cheetas to Wild Blue Yonder. To most, it may sound like an overkill, but I believe that my system warrants the upgrade. And yes, I hear a difference with the new cables...and it's not subtle either! In reference to what one of the other guys was saying, I know that some manufacturers say that their cables are made of silver. But the reality is that they are actually copper with silver plating. It is my understanding that this is not the most ideal. And yes, AQ uses solid silver in their cables. And I can tell u that there is a noticeable difference in sound quality. Whether one likes what they hear, is a difference story! And let's not forget the equipment that is being connected with the various cables. So long for now.
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Originally Posted by sparks81 /forum/post/21235127
mopar04, I'll have to agree with u on this! I, too, have AQ for my HT system. Each time I've made the upgrade, I've heard things I didn't hear before. At this time, I'm using Volcanos for the front three speakers (Dynaudio C2s). And for interconnects, I went from Cheetas to Wild Blue Yonder. To most, it may sound like an overkill, but I believe that my system warrants the upgrade. And yes, I hear a difference with the new cables...and it's not subtle either! In reference to what one of the other guys was saying, I know that some manufacturers say that their cables are made of silver. But the reality is that they are actually copper with silver plating. It is my understanding that this is not the most ideal. And yes, AQ uses solid silver in their cables. And I can tell u that there is a noticeable difference in sound quality. Whether one likes what they hear, is a difference story! And let's not forget the equipment that is being connected with the various cables. So long for now.
I have read people say that they heard things that they never heard before when they changed amps. This is the first time I read people say the same thing when they switched speaker wires!
As long as there are people who like to spend more and think that they hear things that they never heard before, there will be manufacturers who sell expensive speaker wires and cables.
OP: Just go with the Monoprice 12 gauge. This thread is closed
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Originally Posted by ObsceneJesster /forum/post/21232450
I dont have the money to spend in godly ammounts on speaker cables however, if I had the money....Why not? Everyone has a different opinion and im not going to sit here and tell someone they wasted there money. If its a piece of mind thing, I get it. If whether or not you can really hear a difference or if its all just in your head, that's not for me to decide or dispute.
To all the new guys here wandering if high end cables make a difference, I would say this. Unless you've spent thousands of dollars on your speakers, what's the point in using cables that cost almost as much as the speakers themselves. Get yourself a roll of 12-14 AWG and use it for all of your speakers. That way, you dont have to worry about measurements or purchasing multiple sizes. If you get the cable from Monoprice, you might save yourself a couple dollars going with 16AWG over 14AWG and if that couple of dollars is worth it then so be it. Its not worth it to me, therefore I use 12AWG on all my runs whether they are 10 feet or 40 feet.
have you considered that some have the money to spend thousands of dollars on speakers have that money because they don't randomly throw it away....
actually, here at avs, it is up to people to dispute when "casual observations" are contrary to "properly tested results"...
this keeps others from randomly throwing away money.... when people claim "results that aren't subtle" when it's obvious from basic science that any results would at best be extraordinarily subtle (i.e. below audible threshholds), it's up to others to step up to the plate and save new members from themselves...
alternatively, one can frequent sites where you can safely claim that the moon is made out of green cheese without rebuttal...
i agree on "buy a big roll of 12 gauge from monoprice and use it for everything"...
...well, I still haven't figured out if im going to run the optical toslink through the walls, even though it is not rated for that. I also need to run three low level subwoofer cables the same way...didn't seem to find anything approved for in wall...help would be appreciated.
There are varied opinion about high price cables vs cheap cables. Is there a sonic deference? Think that a ferrari drives better than a ford. , Ever wonder why. The Ferrari is made of better materials, better traction etc and of course it cost much more.
Same thing with your cables, expensive cables are made of better materials, better, conductor, better shielding, less interference and cost much more. Now if you have a basic HTIB make no sense you buy a $500 pair of speaker wire you wold not hear much more if any sonic improvement. your speaker cables should be the best for your equipment when I upgrade my monster cables to audioquest i could hear a noticeable sound quality improvement and I believe that better cables give better quality sound.
With all this I must say the best sonic improvement you can get from your system is upgrading to better speakers.
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