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Official JVC RS55/X70 owners thread. - Page 5

post #121 of 3605
11/26/11 at 12:57pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by deandob View Post

for those buying a second projector only for 3d, what model is recommended? I looked at the under 3.5k forum and couldn't locate a thread for folks just comparing models on 3d performance.

+1
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post #122 of 3605
11/26/11 at 12:59pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by deandob View Post

For those buying a second projector only for 3D, what model is recommended? I looked at the under 3.5K forum and couldn't locate a thread for folks just comparing models on 3D performance.

Acer h5360 is only $400 or if you want to just table mount it, the Optoma GT720 is $500. But if you can afford it, I say the acer 9500bd
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post #123 of 3605
11/26/11 at 1:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ericglo View Post

Which calibration package are you using?

I use Chromapure w/ the new EyeOne Display 3
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post #124 of 3605
11/26/11 at 1:21pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Owen View Post

You like everyone else can "complain" as much as you like if you think it will achieve anything, buy buying a product that you know does not fit your needs or has known issues that concern you and then set about complaining and expecting a fix does not make much sense to me. This sends JVC the message that people are silly enough to purchase their projectors with or without problems so why should they care about complaints?

Sorry didn't see later that Owen owns a 40/X3.
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post #125 of 3605
11/26/11 at 1:24pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by SED <--- Rules View Post

Awesome stuff so far Conan!

How do the blacks/contrast compare to the x7?

How does the native motion compare to the Sony VW90?

How does the sharpness compare to the VW90?

Is the high lamp fan noise bothersome?

Does the e-shift increase the overall picture quality?

Thanks!

Conan, thanks for your impressions and hard work. I know you are busy, and the above is just a reminder from a while back. I'm patiently waiting for answers to these questions. Thanks!
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post #126 of 3605
11/26/11 at 1:29pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by joerod View Post

I promise.

Wow... what's up buddy! Long time no hear!!

You still have your 50 or did you dump it for the Sony??
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post #127 of 3605
11/26/11 at 1:33pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by conan48 View Post

As you can see the ghosting at the edges is very noticeable. Normally the ghost image is faint and doesn't have the "hard" outline that I see with the X70. Ghosting is very dependent on the individual also. I remember when I got my VW90 and was like WTF, and others on the forum where praising the 3D including a certain rod member, and now everyone says how crap the VW90 was for 3D. Many people will most likely have little issue with the 3D and it does look very good overall.

Seriously, your paying the money for the 2D, and the 3D is there because they CAN do it but the only tech that will give you perfect 3D is DLP.

If you guys can afford a 6000.00 projector, I'm sure you can afford a 400.00 Acer and be ghost free forever

I can report this is the exact ghosting I saw on the x70 I was testing, and tried them on the new glasses
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post #128 of 3605
11/26/11 at 1:33pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

now look what you did, dejavu is going to quote this line forever.

When I had the 40 and 50 side by side, there were noticeable variances in ghosting, both with new lamps. The 50, by some chance, had less ghosting than the 40.

I wasn't expecting major changes in 3D, the panels are still the same speed as before, maybe a few software tricks. I am curious to hear Joerod's 55 vs 30/95 in 3D, especially with the tuned MV3D's glasses which can go a long way to reducing ghosting on the Sony's to almost nil. FI in 3D on the Sony shouldn't be underestimated when you see it next to the JVC, it's much easier on my eyes on the Sony vs. the JVC.

things i'll be curious once Jonstatt get's his X70
  • D65 lumens (X7 vs. X70) - lumens w/ profile=off
  • gamma - does it affect the gray scale as bad as it does on the 50/60/
  • cms - jon and Mannie were the original to find the CMS issues and know the problem well
other:
  • variances like even focus, convergence, etc.
  • 3D ghosting reduction on 20-30 minute warmup, still the same as last year?
  • long term - did the lamp issue get fixed? No one can answer this for a while.

My focus is perfect from corner to corner and convergence is almost perfect, and maybe some areas have half pixel off, but adding any pixel shifting does nothing to help convergence as it is close to perfect. There is also zone convergence now.

The lens memory works as advertised.

I will check for the warm up next time I turn the projector on.

I'll post more pics later.

Lawguy any specific image you wan't me to use? Where can I download a suitable image. I can post the convergence crosshatch pattern, and any other pattern from the projector.
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post #129 of 3605
11/26/11 at 1:36pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Monahan View Post

That looks bloody horrible.

yeah, but it's not that bad for every movie/scene.
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post #130 of 3605
11/26/11 at 1:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geof View Post

Food for thought....
Every comment I've read thus far states the new Crosstalk cancel control has no effect. Perhaps this will become more useful when the lamp starts dimming.....

Perhaps this has something to do with the firmware update needed (especially w/ Conan's comments then being notified about a fix)?

Could be that JVC as in the past is monitoring this thread.
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post #131 of 3605
11/26/11 at 1:42pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toe View Post

Did you miss the part where I said ~90% of my viewing is 2d and my RS40 kicked ass for this purpose? Obviously the 45 fits my needs better than anything else all things considered or I would not have bought one Having said that, the 45 like any projector is not going to be perfect and the weak points should be brought to the table in hopes of improvement.

Like I said, there are COUNTLESS examples where issues have been brought up and rectified either in that same model, or in later models. If we all did as you say and keep quiet and sit on our hands, a lot of these issues would not have been resolved, or at least not as quickly. What you see as "complaining" I see as constructive critique. This is certainly nothing new to forums though and if it bothers you, just ignore it. It certainly is not going to stop.


Nicely said Todd! +1!
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post #132 of 3605
11/26/11 at 1:46pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SED <--- Rules View Post

Conan, thanks for your impressions and hard work. I know you are busy, and the above is just a reminder from a while back. I'm patiently waiting for answers to these questions. Thanks!

Blacks look about the same as the X7, actually with the extra brightness it's hard to say because I'm not measuring the lumen output with a light meter. If someone want's to send me a light meter I'll do it

Contrast appears greater and has more pop in bright scenes, and I think may be better then the VW90 in this regard. It definitively has more impact on bright scenes then the X7.

The native motion may be better then the VW90, but it's hard to tell. I ran the motion tests almost a year ago on the Sony. I may post a youtube video with the store pan scene and I think you will be impressed with the native motion. Better then the X7. Also after watching some more Amazing Race, UFC, etc. The CMD is better too, but not as "clean" as the VW90. Still some artifacting visible but it's almost a non issue.

I would say the X70 is sharper then the VW90, and I found the VW90 very slightly sharper then the X7.

High lamp noise is I would say the same as the X7, and I found the Sony to be the quietest projector I've ever owned. It's noticeable on high on the JVC but not annoying.

I will first have to find out how to turn off eshift before I can do some a/b tests, but as of now the detail, and clarity is unmatched by any Projector I've owned, so I'm guessing eshift has something to do with it. I do sit around 9-10 feet from a 110" screen.
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post #133 of 3605
11/26/11 at 1:49pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toe View Post

It depends on what type of 2d you are watching I would say. Just about everyone who has compared a Sony to JVC for sports for example would claim the Sony champ for a variety of reasons including better native motion, better FI, better ANSI contrast, etc.......There are many other factors that make up the BIG picture besides native contrast.

I only watch BD movies on the projector, everything else is viewed on a 70" TV. Motion has never been an issue for my use, I dont expect film to look like video so I'm not looking for any improvement in that area.
Better ANSI contrast would be nice but of no use in my viewing environment which is not a black painted bat cave. I am looking into a DNP Supernova screen to address that issue as it will provide a huge improvident in ANSI, something which no projector can achieve.

That leaves black level and contrast as the only aspects of performance I would pay money to improve, the Supernona screen is first on the list and then an X90 if I still feel it necessary.
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post #134 of 3605
11/26/11 at 1:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Owen View Post

My comment was general and directed at people looking to buy, not you in particular.

I am not suggesting that people with problems should not complain, but complaining to JVC would be much more useful then winging on a forum.

I disagree. Sometimes complaining in a public domain like this forum will get much more attention since it reads as bad press vs somebody calling up JVC and making a single complaint that can not be read by the general public. I do agree that JVC should hear about it directly as well though, but like I mentioned, many good things have been accomplished through "complaining" with many various products both hardware and software that I have seen on hear over the years.
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post #135 of 3605
11/26/11 at 1:59pm
All the fuss that was made over issues with the previous model JVC's does not seem to have resulted in a fix so dont hold your breath this time around.
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post #136 of 3605
11/26/11 at 2:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by conan48 View Post

As you can see the ghosting at the edges is very noticeable. Normally the ghost image is faint and doesn't have the "hard" outline that I see with the X70. Ghosting is very dependent on the individual also. I remember when I got my VW90 and was like WTF, and others on the forum where praising the 3D including a certain rod member, and now everyone says how crap the VW90 was for 3D. Many people will most likely have little issue with the 3D and it does look very good overall.

Seriously, your paying the money for the 2D, and the 3D is there because they CAN do it but the only tech that will give you perfect 3D is DLP.

If you guys can afford a 6000.00 projector, I'm sure you can afford a 400.00 Acer and be ghost free forever;)




I have to say, that if I spend 6K on a projector ( ohh, wait...I have done that ) I definitely wouldnt want to have to spend 400 more, just to get a part off, what I expect the 6 K projector to do correct, done right AND probely one off the reasons to buy a expensive projector is to NOT have more then one projector hanging around

BTW. the only reason that I personally get rid off the 90ES, was because off the ghosting and the dim picture in 3D - like you !? - ( and I even dont see a lot off 3D films, but when I buy a expensive projector, who can do 3D, I want it to work acceptable in that area too - as I would expect for a projector in the 5 - 10 K price level.

So I was perfectly happy with the 90ES´s performance in area´s, that I did use ( 2D ) , but it still annoyid me, to have ( and paid for ) a projector,where part off its options ( the 3D )didnt work as good, as I wanted (and expected )it to do

But thats just my opion naturally

And I do also believe, that we will have to have a little more patience and give some more time to let more JVC´s X70 ´s come out, before we can jugde them


dj
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post #137 of 3605
11/26/11 at 2:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by conan48 View Post


The lens memory works as advertised.

How accurate is it Conan? Some Sony members have commented that the lens memory on the 95 is not very accurate.........is the JVC the same way?
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post #138 of 3605
11/26/11 at 2:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Owen View Post

All the fuss that was made over issues with the previous model JVC's does not seem to have resulted in a fix so dont hold your breath this time around.

Great attitude.......lets just give up!









Or it could be as it is well known that JVC has a 2 year cycle with the same basic technology/projector design. A LOT of these complaints will get results next year when the hardware/projector design is changed I would bet I would bet money on faster panels, FI for 3d, less ghosting, etc...............

Quote:
Originally Posted by krichter1 View Post

Nicely said Todd! +1!

Right on!
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post #139 of 3605
11/26/11 at 2:10pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by conan48 View Post

My focus is perfect from corner to corner and convergence is almost perfect, and maybe some areas have half pixel off, but adding any pixel shifting does nothing to help convergence as it is close to perfect. There is also zone convergence now.

Have you tried the zone convergence? Noticed any negative effects?

Thanks so much for the great objective impressions. With the projectors you've owned recently, they certainly carry a lot of weight.
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post #140 of 3605
11/26/11 at 2:25pm
Or it could be as it is well known that JVC has a 2 year cycle with the same basic technology/projector design. A LOT of these complaints will get results next year when the hardware/projector design is changed I would bet I would bet money on faster panels, FI for 3d, less ghosting, etc...............



Right on![/quote]

Hmm... maybe I should get the VW95 for this year, and then "upgrade' to RS555 next year when they have faster panel, which might solved the 3D issues. Tough decision.. For me, the 3D I can live with, but the bulb and high-fan noise will be a big issue for me. My PJ is only a few feet above my head, and I really hate hearing fan noise as in my work, I already need to deal with server that had tons of fans (I know, JVC will be nowhere near those noise level ) and I don't want any hint to remind me of it
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post #141 of 3605
11/26/11 at 2:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by fight4yu View Post

Or it could be as it is well known that JVC has a 2 year cycle with the same basic technology/projector design. A LOT of these complaints will get results next year when the hardware/projector design is changed I would bet I would bet money on faster panels, FI for 3d, less ghosting, etc...............



Right on!

Hmm... maybe I should get the VW95 for this year, and then "upgrade' to RS555 next year when they have faster panel, which might solved the 3D issues. Tough decision.. For me, the 3D I can live with, but the bulb and high-fan noise will be a big issue for me. My PJ is only a few feet above my head, and I really hate hearing fan noise as in my work, I already need to deal with server that had tons of fans (I know, JVC will be nowhere near those noise level ) and I don't want any hint to remind me of it [/quote]

I sent you an email.
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post #142 of 3605
11/26/11 at 2:35pm
Conan, when you were testing 3D on your X70, was this on high bulb mode with the aperture fully open? I have always found with the X7 that the least ghosting is visible in this configuration. If the X70 is brighter I was wondering if you therefore felt the need to close the aperture or even run in low bulb?
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post #143 of 3605
11/26/11 at 2:44pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by conan48 View Post

Lawguy any specific image you wan't me to use? Where can I download a suitable image. I can post the convergence crosshatch pattern, and any other pattern from the projector.

Yes! Please use the single pixel crosshatch test pattern from the AVS disk, which can be found here.

Make sure you use the single pixel one because that one is the most revealing. It looks like boxes with a single pixel in the center of each box.
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post #144 of 3605
11/26/11 at 2:49pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by fight4yu View Post

Or it could be as it is well known that JVC has a 2 year cycle with the same basic technology/projector design. A LOT of these complaints will get results next year when the hardware/projector design is changed I would bet I would bet money on faster panels, FI for 3d, less ghosting, etc...............


I hope that you are right but JVC took a step backward in some ways in moving from the RS15/25/35 to the RS40/50/60. JVC broke the CMS and used an in-house image processing chip (the genessa) when other chips would have been much better choices. These are engineering decisions that are motivated by keeping costs down.
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post #145 of 3605
11/26/11 at 3:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by deandob View Post

For those buying a second projector only for 3D, what model is recommended? I looked at the under 3.5K forum and couldn't locate a thread for folks just comparing models on 3D performance.

I would start here if you don't want to spend much for 1080p 3D.

http://www.avforums.com/review/Optom...or-Review.html

For a little more try this one.

http://www.projectorreviews.com/acer/h9500bd/index.php
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post #146 of 3605
11/26/11 at 3:11pm
Thread Starter 
pixel crosshatch.

FYI, the green you may see as convergence being off is not really there. That's the eshift image on camera.
LL
LL
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post #147 of 3605
11/26/11 at 3:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

now look what you did, dejavu is going to quote this line forever. [/list]

No I'm not! I'm bored with the Acer -- nothing to complain about. I'm going to buy something that has issues so I can join in on the fun here and do some serious bitchin, yea I said bitchin! Anyway it sure looks like I've got a lot to chose from this year. I'll have no problems finding something I can pay a lot of money for and I'll be guaranteed lots of complaining time -- now that's entertainment around here.
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post #148 of 3605
11/26/11 at 3:16pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by conan48 View Post

pixel crosshatch.

FYI, the green you may see as convergence being off is not really there. That's the eshift image on camera.

Thanks. That looks pretty good.

Is it pretty consistent over the whole screen?
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post #149 of 3605
11/26/11 at 3:16pm
Thread Starter 
Also for those in this forum in general. You will NEVER get perfect 3D if you go looking at LCOS or LCD. Only DLP can offer perfect 3D. It's the technology. DLP switches those little mirrors 2000 time per second! Native refresh rate is 2000hz baby.

Still, the ghosting should be the same or less then the X7 however. So I will investigate with JVC next week why there is more ghosting.

Yes, JVC does read this forum. I made sure they were aware of all the "issues", and they know.............
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post #150 of 3605
11/26/11 at 3:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lawguy View Post

Yes! Please use the single pixel crosshatch test pattern from the AVS disk, which can be found here.

Make sure you use the single pixel one because that one is the most revealing. It looks like boxes with a single pixel in the center of each box.

Here's what it looks like on the disc Conan...


Quote:
Originally Posted by conan48 View Post

Also for those in this forum in general. You will NEVER get perfect 3D if you go looking at LCOS or LCD. Only DLP can offer perfect 3D. It's the technology. DLP switches those little mirrors 2000 time per second! Native refresh rate is 2000hz baby.

Still, the ghosting should be the same or less then the X7 however. So I will investigate with JVC next week why there is more ghosting.

Yes, JVC does read this forum. I made sure they were aware of all the "issues", and they know.............


Nice perspective (I forgot about the large disparity between tech's when talking refresh rates)! As much as I enjoy(ed) the RS50, coming from the high end Sharp DLP 20K I do miss a lot of what it had to offer and always wondered had Sharp not gotten out of the high-end PJ market, what say a 20K 3D unit would have looked like today.
LL
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