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Official JVC RS55/X70 owners thread. - Page 95

post #2821 of 3520
Quote:
Originally Posted by cdnscg View Post


Thanks codeguy. I'd prefer to leave the lamp on normal, with the aperture to 0. I'm not a fan of the noise of the high lamp setting. I'm interested in a 2:35 135" high gain screen which should give me more brightness, then I can close the iris, but first must address the fact that my walls and ceiling are painted light colors. Just convinced the wife that they need to be darkened, but without creating a black walled bat cave. Will look at darker blues or grays with a matte finish.

Dunn Edwards Sierra Vista! It is a darker flat gray and I have never heard a complaint about the color! It is dark enough to bring out the details of a projector but still has a warm feel to the room when you walk into it.
post #2822 of 3520
Okay, it's my understanding that CMD, Mode 1 and 2, turns the eShift feature off. And Mode 3 and 4 turns the eShift feature on. Am I correct in assuming that with CMD in the 'Off" position, the eShift feature is 'On'?

BTW, IMO, the manual sucks.
post #2823 of 3520
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharp1080 View Post

Dunn Edwards Sierra Vista! It is a darker flat gray and I have never heard a complaint about the color! It is dark enough to bring out the details of a projector but still has a warm feel to the room when you walk into it.

I'm obviously paint sight impaired, because I couldn't find the color 'Sierra Vista' on their sight. Please send a link if possible Sharp.
post #2824 of 3520
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rutgar View Post

Okay, it's my understanding that CMD, Mode 1 and 2, turns the eShift feature off. And Mode 3 and 4 turns the eShift feature on. Am I correct in assuming that with CMD in the 'Off" position, the eShift feature is 'On'?

BTW, IMO, the manual sucks.

CMD Settings have no effect on eshift.

CMD 1 & 2 insert blank frames and CMD 3 & 4 insert interpolated frames.

Eshift is always on by default (in 2d modes, it is off when watching 3D). In fact it comes on at every power on and you have to intentionally turn it off in the service menu or using the demo mode.
post #2825 of 3520
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geof View Post

CMD Settings have no effect on eshift.

CMD 1 & 2 insert blank frames and CMD 3 & 4 insert interpolated frames.

Eshift is always on by default (in 2d modes, it is off when watching 3D). In fact it comes on at every power on and you have to intentionally turn it off in the service menu or using the demo mode.

Not according to Thomas J. Norton with Home Theater magazine. In the April issue, he clearly states that Mode 1 and 2 turns eShift 'OFF'. Whereas Mode 3 and 4 has eShift 'On'. But he doesn't specify on eShift when CMD is turned Off.
post #2826 of 3520
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rutgar View Post

Not according to Thomas J. Norton with Home Theater magazine. In the April issue, he clearly states that Mode 1 and 2 turns eShift 'OFF'. Whereas Mode 3 and 4 has eShift 'On'. But he doesn't specify on eShift when CMD is turned Off.

I don't use CMD but I'll check modes 1 & 2 next time I turn on the projector. CMD OFF does not disable shift though.
post #2827 of 3520
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geof View Post

I don't use CMD but I'll check modes 1 & 2 next time I turn on the projector. CMD OFF does not disable shift though.

Okay, thanks. I'm with you. I don't use CMD either. After playing with the different CMD modes, I felt that leaving it off gave me the best results.
post #2828 of 3520
I'm curious about the view of other RS55 owners on this subject:

I continue to be blown away by the clarity and contrast dynamics this projector produces. I personally have never seen a sharp and detailed an image as this before, let alone one that looks as high contrast. It's closer to a flat-panel in terms of it's dynamics than I've seen from a projector. My RS55 has been calibrated by a very well respected calibrator, so I doubt this arises from a calibration issue per se. In fact, my calibrator (umr) suggested that projectors like the JVCs are starting to offer un-filmlike levels of contrast - more than one may need, or even want, when it comes to faithfully reproducing the look of projected film. If that is so, I wonder if this is what I'm confronting here.

And that gets me into the issue I want to raise: I'm finding the image overall less film-like than I'm used to (having come from my previous RS20, which I compared extensively to the RS55 before I sold it to my friend...I still watch movies on the RS20 at my friend's house as well). It's not the color, which seems to be dialed in quite accurately and looks film-like and natural. Rather, it is perhaps the increase in contrast (or so it appears).

I've been trying to pin down why and it seems to come down to the brightest areas of the image. The black levels look much the same as my RS20, but the brightest high-lights look really, really bright. This is very positive in many respects - street lights during night scenes, night city-scape shots etc, look positively brilliant - the street lights now look less iike light on film, and more like bright lights shining in the night, which improves the vibrancy and realism. At the same time, it looks less "film-like" to me.

As an example, I'm linking to two screen shots from the Blu-Ray screenshots thread:



This image above from Taxi Driver looks pretty film-like to me in terms of it's contrast/brightness of the hanging light bulb in the shot. It looks to me like a light bulb a shot on film. Whereas on my RS55 that light bulb would be really bright, looking almost like a real light bulb hanging in the image.
Again, it feels more realistic, like I'm in the room, but it does feel less film-like, less "cinema" in a way.

Likewise in a shot like this:



The bright white tape would be much brighter, really popping off the screen, in a way more realistic, but also maybe more exaggerated.

In essences, the black levels of my RS55 seem essentially the same as my RS20, but everything at the the very top end of the brightness scale, highlights on eyes, faces, metallic reflections etc, all have a greater sense of brilliance, brightness and contrast that makes those areas look more real...but also edges it to more "real" and even more to HD video vs film.
It seems to a signature that the projector brings to film after film. Sometimes I love it; sometimes it seems to undercut a bit of cinematic quality (just as the "soap opera" effect of frame interpolation does for movies on film...and no, I do not turn on my CDM/frame interpolation on the RS55).

So my question is: Do you find anything similar to the effect I've mentioned? Any thoughts, opinions on the subject?
post #2829 of 3520
After being a cinema projectionist for more than 35 years all I can say is thank God the image from the RS55 & 65 looks different to what you see at the cinema!

No way do I want to reproduce the look at home of what I see in cinemas today, who wants dull lifeless images, ever so soft focus, scratches, Xenon lamps not aligned, black masking not aligned correctly, poor sound, the list goes on and on.....

No way! the images I get from my RS65 are truly incredible, 500% better than any cinema!!!!

And thats speaking from someone who's been in the business for a mighty long time.
post #2830 of 3520
Quote:
Originally Posted by craig john View Post

I have 450 hours on my projector and the image is noticeably less bright than it was at 100 or 200 hours. I have no way to measure the light output, other than to get my calibrator back here. It it worthwhile reporting this to JVC?

Craig

That post from 2 weeks ago was prophetic. This afternoon, I went to the theater to watch the Flyers/Pens game... and the bulb is dead. I don't know exactly how many hours, but I'm guessing about 500.

Craig
post #2831 of 3520
Rich, do you get the same impressions with eShift turned off? The upscaling/sharpening definitely creates an image different than the original source. IMO the vast majority of the time it looks better. However, film purists may not agree...
post #2832 of 3520
Quote:
Originally Posted by craig john View Post

That post from 2 weeks ago was prophetic. This afternoon, I went to the theater to watch the Flyers/Pens game... and the bulb is dead. I don't know exactly how many hours, but I'm guessing about 500.

Craig

Wow, that sucks .. big time. You might as well replace it with the uber-inexpensive "Diamond" lamp if there is one available.
post #2833 of 3520
Quote:
Originally Posted by R Harkness View Post

I'm curious about the view of other RS55 owners on this subject:

I continue to be blown away by the clarity and contrast dynamics this projector produces. I personally have never seen a sharp and detailed an image as this before, let alone one that looks as high contrast. It's closer to a flat-panel in terms of it's dynamics than I've seen from a projector. My RS55 has been calibrated by a very well respected calibrator, so I doubt this arises from a calibration issue per se. In fact, my calibrator (umr) suggested that projectors like the JVCs are starting to offer un-filmlike levels of contrast - more than one may need, or even want, when it comes to faithfully reproducing the look of projected film. If that is so, I wonder if this is what I'm confronting here.

And that gets me into the issue I want to raise: I'm finding the image overall less film-like than I'm used to (having come from my previous RS20, which I compared extensively to the RS55 before I sold it to my friend...I still watch movies on the RS20 at my friend's house as well). It's not the color, which seems to be dialed in quite accurately and looks film-like and natural. Rather, it is perhaps the increase in contrast (or so it appears).

I've been trying to pin down why and it seems to come down to the brightest areas of the image. The black levels look much the same as my RS20, but the brightest high-lights look really, really bright. This is very positive in many respects - street lights during night scenes, night city-scape shots etc, look positively brilliant - the street lights now look less iike light on film, and more like bright lights shining in the night, which improves the vibrancy and realism. At the same time, it looks less "film-like" to me.

As an example, I'm linking to two screen shots from the Blu-Ray screenshots thread:



This image above from Taxi Driver looks pretty film-like to me in terms of it's contrast/brightness of the hanging light bulb in the shot. It looks to me like a light bulb a shot on film. Whereas on my RS55 that light bulb would be really bright, looking almost like a real light bulb hanging in the image.
Again, it feels more realistic, like I'm in the room, but it does feel less film-like, less "cinema" in a way.

Likewise in a shot like this:



The bright white tape would be much brighter, really popping off the screen, in a way more realistic, but also maybe more exaggerated.

In essences, the black levels of my RS55 seem essentially the same as my RS20, but everything at the the very top end of the brightness scale, highlights on eyes, faces, metallic reflections etc, all have a greater sense of brilliance, brightness and contrast that makes those areas look more real...but also edges it to more "real" and even more to HD video vs film.
It seems to a signature that the projector brings to film after film. Sometimes I love it; sometimes it seems to undercut a bit of cinematic quality (just as the "soap opera" effect of frame interpolation does for movies on film...and no, I do not turn on my CDM/frame interpolation on the RS55).

So my question is: Do you find anything similar to the effect I've mentioned? Any thoughts, opinions on the subject?

How did umr replicate the conditions of your screen and room to perform such an excellent calibration? Or does it have less to do with the particular set-up, than the PJ itself being calibrated? Would your RS55 look as good in my or another's room with different conditions? I ask, because what you describe sounds fantastic, and I would surely like to replicate.
post #2834 of 3520
Quote:
Originally Posted by pepar View Post

Wow, that sucks .. big time. You might as well replace it with the uber-inexpensive "Diamond" lamp if there is one available.

I spoke to Mark Haflich at AVS today. He hooked me up with JVC Pro Customer Support and they are sending me a replacement bulb. Can't ask for better CS than that.

Craig
post #2835 of 3520
@R. Harkness
You'll need OCD meds to fix that problem, don't worry I could use some myself.
Just make a different calibration in a separate mode, hence adjust it to your liking.

When I saw Super8 on the $100,000 commerical 4k Sony projector, I was thinking, wow no pixels, so analog looking even for a digital projector. That said, Super8 was hilarious because they purposefully added noise and artifacts into some of the filming to cause it to have more of a film look at times. The high pixel fill of TRUE 4k is amazing, but the overall movie experience was still a mixed PQ bag (would have to watch more movies on the Sony 4k to know for sure). Keep in mind the film look is mostly going to the way-side, only a tiny percentage of movies are even filmed on 35mm anymore, so it'll only be pre-2010 movies mostly (really pre-2008). Even when they have a 35mm reel, I believe the source originated as digital usually and they are re-printing them to a reel so some movie theaters with older projectors can play new movies still.

Sometimes they re-master the film to try to make it look more film-like. The last movie I recall being in 35mm was Tree of Life I believe, but not 100% sure, however if you google it, you'll see 90%+ movies are digital now. It's kind of like a record vs. a CD, there are times where I think analog still has more natural smoothness and realism than digital, but 4k helps and so does e-shift.
post #2836 of 3520
Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

The aperture must be closed to maximize contrast, period. The other thing that affects contrast is the mounting position (throw distance) of the projector, farther back = higher contrast, closer up = brighter image. The calibration can also affect it though, but I mean other than that...

For 130", I agree with JonStat, 1.5 or so minimum gain up to 2.0+ optimal. This also depends on how heavy of a projector user someone is per year, if someone puts 200-500 hours of use per year is all, they probably don't mind replacing those lamps once every 1-2 years. For heavier users, you really need to get as much brightness as possible, overkill is better than underkill.

Coderguy, thanks for the tips. All this talk of a higher gain screen has definitely got me interested. If I can up the gain to the 1.6 - 2.0 range, then shut down the iris to get a higher contrast ratio, it sounds like a whole lot of WIN.

I had read a little on high gain screens about 'hot spotting'. Can anyone here with a 1.6 - 2.0 gain screen attest to this effect and wether or not it is an issue for you?

Lastly can someone recommend a high quality screen in this gain range? I am in Australia so I'd need something I can get in Au.

Cheers,

Scottie
post #2837 of 3520
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geof View Post

I don't use CMD but I'll check modes 1 & 2 next time I turn on the projector. CMD OFF does not disable shift though.

FWIW, CMD Modes 1 & 2 do turn eshift Off. CMD Modes 3 & 4 leave eshift On (and eshift is on with CMD Off).
post #2838 of 3520
Also, not sure if this has been mentioned in the previous 93 pages...

I had NEVER experienced rainbow effect as I had previously only owned a HD950 from JVC and never did a demo of any other machine.

The other night I switched on CMD (can't recall which setting) and I suddenly realised I was seeing the rainbow effect. It was only happening if I flicked my eyes across the screen from one portion to another. It wasn't bad, but as soon as I knew I was seeing it, I couldn't stop focusing on it.

Actually to be honest, I'd forgotten that CMD was turned on, and I was thinking that this projector in general had the rainbow effect (for me) and my old projector didn't. I did breathe a sigh of relief when I realised the effect was gone after I switched off CMD.

Has anyone else noticed this? Is what I'm seeing even rainbow effect? I'm seeing a multi coloured (though mostly bright pink/purple) silhouette of the image as I move my eyes.

Anyone got any ideas as to why this might be happening with CMD on but not off?

Scott
post #2839 of 3520
Oh and another question..

When you say "Iris fully closed", does that mean lens aperture on -15?

Scott
post #2840 of 3520
Quote:
Originally Posted by scott_richardson View Post

Oh and another question..

When you say "Iris fully closed", does that mean lens aperture on -15?

Scott

Yes
post #2841 of 3520
RS55/X70 owners, so how are your bulbs doing so far? Any sudden dimming issues or blow ups? I'm planning to buy either JVC's or Sony's next projector and I'm leaning toward the JVC but I don't want to be hassled and annoyed with bulb problems.
post #2842 of 3520
Quote:
Originally Posted by SED <--- Rules View Post

RS55/X70 owners, so how are your bulbs doing so far? Any sudden dimming issues or blow ups? I'm planning to buy either JVC's or Sony's next projector and I'm leaning toward the JVC but I don't want to be hassled and annoyed with bulb problems.

All of the JVCs use the same lamp.
post #2843 of 3520
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joesyah View Post

All of the JVCs use the same lamp.

Yes sir, I realize that but I was wondering if JVC has fixed the problems with the lamps on the new models. I want to get JVC's next model and I'm hoping that I won't have to deal with faulty lamps. That's why I want to know how are they doing so far.
post #2844 of 3520
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geof View Post

... (and eshift is on with CMD Off).

Okay. That's what I was wanting to know. Thanks Geof
post #2845 of 3520
Quote:
Originally Posted by scott_richardson View Post

Coderguy, thanks for the tips. All this talk of a higher gain screen has definitely got me interested. If I can up the gain to the 1.6 - 2.0 range, then shut down the iris to get a higher contrast ratio, it sounds like a whole lot of WIN.

There is no hot spotting on the HP screen and no real visible texture either (not enough to matter), as it looks like a regular screen once setup properly, only brighter.

The Da-Lite High Power 2.4 gain and the Black Diamond by SI are the two to look at for brightness. The black diamond is more for ambient light, the HP is more for added brightness in a dark room. There are mounting things to be aware of on the HP screen (brightness viewing cone), so that it works best for 1-2 people viewing per row, but you can do 4 but the people on the outer edge of the row will not see it as bright. You also have to mount the projector lower on a shelf or use a long drop pole in order to realize most of the gain (2.0 or so). You can theoretically get about 2.2 gain from it if you mount it right to the side of your head but it's inconvenient just for that tiny boost. Most mounting spots will be 1.6 to 2.0 gain from it.
post #2846 of 3520
Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

The Da-Lite High Power 2.4 gain and the Black Diamond by SI are the two to look at for brightness. The black diamond is more for ambient light, the HP is more for added brightness in a dark room. There are maximum sizes the HP screen is available in, so you might need it custom cut by calling Da-Lite (I don't know the max avail size, I guess 130"ish to 135"ish I think). Many of us use the HP screen, Zombie uses it and you may have seen his thread on the shootout he did. I'd say at least 10% of the JVC posters in here are using the HP screen. Zombie had a custom cut HP screen at 142", I think he emailed a manager or had a contact, but they might do it for you.

There are some slightly better screens potentially that some prefer compared to the HP (Stewarts?), but the HP screen is a good all-around performer and the added brightness helps. I am not hugely familiar with that many other screens, some others can weigh in.

There are mounting things to be aware of on the HP screen (brightness viewing cone), so that it works best for 1-2 people viewing per row, but you can do 4 but the people on the outer edge of the row will not see it as bright. You also have to mount the projector lower on a shelf or use a long drop pole in order to realize most of the gain (2.0 or so). You can theoretically get 2.2 gain from it if you mount it right to the side of your head but it's inconvenient just for that tiny boost.

Thanks mate. OK interesting. I think I came across the HP screen in my searches earlier today. I saw this video...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VabVeI5HfSA

Looks pretty impressive. Going by that I think my row of 4 seats will handle it fine. The left and right furthest seats are not THAT FAR off-axis, as they're a fair way back in the room.. in fact soon I will be upgrading my HT room to have a riser and will be moving the row of 4 to the very back of the room, with a three seater or two seater in front of them.

My only concern is projector positioning. I have an 8 foot ceiling and the projector hangs only about 1 foot from the roof. It's directly overhead..

What are the costs for the Da-Lite's?

Scott
post #2847 of 3520
I don't remember exactly, but www.projectorzone.com often has some good "sale" prices on them. As always, pulldown screens will be cheaper than fixed or motorized.

Added:
Here is a direct link to one...
http://www.projectorzone.com/Da-Lite...SR-65x116-HDTV
post #2848 of 3520
Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

I don't remember exactly, but www.projectorzone.com often has some good "sale" prices on them. As always, pulldown screens will be cheaper than fixed or motorized.

Added:
Here is a direct link to one...
http://www.projectorzone.com/Da-Lite...SR-65x116-HDTV

Gee I wish we could get AT screens with a higher gain than 1.16 as mine is.
post #2849 of 3520
Quote:
Originally Posted by scott_richardson View Post

Thanks mate. OK interesting. I think I came across the HP screen in my searches earlier today. I saw this video...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VabVeI5HfSA

Looks pretty impressive. Going by that I think my row of 4 seats will handle it fine. The left and right furthest seats are not THAT FAR off-axis, as they're a fair way back in the room.. in fact soon I will be upgrading my HT room to have a riser and will be moving the row of 4 to the very back of the room, with a three seater or two seater in front of them.

My only concern is projector positioning. I have an 8 foot ceiling and the projector hangs only about 1 foot from the roof. It's directly overhead..

What are the costs for the Da-Lite's?

Scott

Minimal value getting an HP if the projector is ceiling mounted as the screen is retro reflective. One need to have the projector a bit above the viewer and a bit back. Not much higher than 2ft(600mm) or so above the viewing plane, if the gain is to be realised.

I use two of them a 2.8 and a 2.4
post #2850 of 3520
He can just lower the projector a tad to increase the brightness, I didn't calculate the gain exactly, but if he sits up and isn't reclining, it is probably 1.4 to 1.5 mounted at that ceiling height. I have a DLP and a JVC in the same room, the DLP is mounted at about 8 foot high or so and I get around 1.2 gain and it looks great on the HP screen.
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