Official JVC RS55/X70 owners thread. - Page 11

Not so much snide comments, but just people should understand this data takes a while, so I am not making any absolute claims of accuracy, not yet as that will come much much later after I have established the true accuracy (and this is difficult but over time it will happen). For many projectors I just don't know yet, as I don't have all the necessary data.

I don't believe the numbers I am seeing! I had to go back and check them several times.

1250 lumens high bulb, open aperture, shortest throw, MAX (colour profile=off)

1080 lumens high bulb, open aperture, shortest throw, THX

I could see that the normal viewing modes were much much brighter than the X7 yet the bulb was not THAT much more in lumens proportionally. So I was puzzled why I had to stop the aperture down so far to equal the same black level. Now I know why...the delta between MAX and usable D65 is much much better.

My guess is that the different modes use different scaling algorithims. More aggressive ones might be sharper but introduce more noise. Less agressive ones would not be as sharp but have less noise.

This sounds useful.

Jonathan, do you get the sense that motion handling has improved? Does eshift make any difference with motion handling? I wonder if the 0,1,2,3 setting have any effect in that regard....perhaps GaryB can clarify what these setting do...

I honestly haven't observed any difference in motion handling yet either in 2D or 3D. I need to do some more careful looking for that, but it seems pretty much the same.

Awesome thanks Jonathan!

Your lumens finding even in THX mode sounds fantastic (Wow!).

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...6#post21276136

Same thing has been found in the X30/RS45 thread.


http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...0#post21284000

Jon, do you recall the lumen drop off from color profile=off vs. THX on the X7 when it had a new lamp?

It's been a while since I measured on the RS50, but I remember something like a 30% drop in lumens.

my THX mode wasn't very accurate and the lumens dropped even more once I calibrated it for D65. This was about a 35-40% drop off from color profile=off. I am curious to see what the gray scale looks like on your THX mode.

thanks for all the info so far.

More like 35% drop for me to THX on my X7, so it clearly is improved. At the moment greyscale is actually a bit reddish. But that is to be expected on a new bulb. Better to start that way around though!

i'd love to know what happens if you swapped lamps. My original lamp (1/2011) and replacement (3/2011) were both down to about 82-83% brand new, forcing me to bring down the blue/green gains by a significant amount to get it to D65.

I wonder if the high reds is a result of some redesign of the lamp, or the internal filter changes that were being discussed on the new models.

I agree it would be a good test, but am not inclined to start swapping over the bulbs at the moment. Maybe someone else will do that test. My personal belief is that it is do with internal filter changes, because the bulb is backwards compatible. If its colour temperature was totally different it would mess up all the projectors without a re-calibration which would be particularly inappropriate for an X3.

Based on Conan's lamp photo it is the same lamp that's already been in use for awhile - QLL0194-002. The brightness increase is due to the filter changes from everything we've heard to date.

I have the same disease. It has a name: "Shiny Metal Syndrome". Sometimes it shows up as an audio/video addiction or (more expensively) an automobile addiction.

There are 12 step programs available

If anybody has the chance, I'd LOVE two bits of information.

1. Lumens at about 16' throw to a 110" diagonal 16:9 screen, high and low lamp.
2. Fan noise level in high and low lamp, ideally compared to the Sony 95.

Also, if anybody knows of an opportunity to see an X70 in the SF Bay Area, I'd love to know about it. I'd guess the Magnolia design centers will upgrade their X7s at some point, but I don't know when.

How did you check them? With your light meter or with a calibration meter?


Have you measured the grayscale and dE particularly at 100%. Based on experience with older JVC models, THX mode does not always mean the grayscale and gains are set accurately.


You may have been puzzled for good reason. Unless you have verified an excellent D65 dE at 100% we do not know if the gains are set properly. There would be even more headroom if the gains are too low, and there would be a hit to brightness if they are too high.


If the grayscale is reddish it sounds like the red gain (and perhaps another color too) needs to come down to reach D65. Doing so will affect the brightness.

Are you using calibration software and if so what package? It would be great if you can post a calibration report if available!

Also I know it would be a PITA to move the pj to measure at long throw, but hopefully you will have an opportunity to measure in low lamp at your current throw and at D65. Thanks!

I agree that any meaningful lumens measurement has to be taken after ensuring that greyscale is properly calibrated.

Still searching through our old stuff for some more numbers but look at this from our 50 thread:

Measurements made with the light meter were in normal mode. (not peak)

THX Normal lamp = 132 Lux
546 Lumens

THX HI lamp = 192 Lux
794 Lumens

USER 1, Color OFF, Normal lamp = 200 Lux
827 Lumens

USER 1. Color OFF, HI lamp = 294 Lux
1215 Lumens!

There are large variations in lumens measurements between people in every thread I've seen across all projectors. Some of it is lamp variance, room conditions, meter sensitivity, general measuring methods, and what not...

The biggest difference will be the color profiles and gray-scale, but we won't know how that is affected until someone does a proper calibration. To add to that you have calibration inaccuracies from people's "post calibrated" modes, their calibration meters may be lying or they may have just calibrated incorrectly and forgot something.

Check out Art's RS-60 measurements...
http://www.projectorreviews.com/jvc/...erformance.php

I try to stay between the two extremes with percentile averaging. This is why I use the average of reviews and calibrators over user reported methods as a slightly higher weighting, the user measurments are there to average any differences in discrepancies.

The variances can affect results a lot more than a few %, just depends.

Yet his zoom measurements do not make a lot of sense:

Effect of zoom on lumen output (THX mode):

Zoom out: 554
Mid-zoom: 497
Zoom in: 414

------------------------------------------------------------

Long story short, there is a lot of conflicting data, we won't know until we get a lot more measurements in for these newer projectors, but it seems for now there is a brightness increase, and it is probably significant after calibration, but we will find out soon enough.

Here are my initial readings I found off of the 50 forum along w/ Jon's initial contrast link on his 50:

Initial settings:

100% White Field
Picture Mode: User 2
Color Profile = Off
Temp = 9500 (wanted to see just how bright I could get it)
Gamma Normal
Lamp Power = HIGH
Lens Aperture = 0
Bulb Hours = 210
Screen: 110" (96x54") Seymour AT (non XD) @ .95 brightness

Estimated 925 Lumens

Now resetting bulb to LOW and Apeture = 0

Picture Mode: User 2
Color Profile = Off
Temp = 9500
Gamma Normal
Lamp Power = LOW
Lens Aperture = 0
Bulb Hours = 210

Estimated 552 Lumens


NOW switching the Color Profile on from initial settings below in HIGH lamp mode:

Picture Mode: User 2
Color Profile = STANDARD
Temp = 9500
Gamma Normal
Lamp Power = HIGH
Lens Aperture = 0
Bulb Hours = 210

Estimated 470 Lumens


NOW switching the Color Profile on from initial settings below in LOW lamp mode:

Picture Mode: User 2
Color Profile = STANDARD
Temp = 9500
Gamma Normal
Lamp Power = LOW
Lens Aperture = 0
Bulb Hours = 210

Estimated 352 Lumens


AND NOW Finally . . . Changing to:
Picture Mode THX w/ Initial D65
Lamp=LOW

Estimated 346 Lumens



Lastly my initial readings of Grayscale using the Rec709 profile :

Picture Mode: User 2
Color Profile = Standard
Temp = 6500
Gamma Normal
Lamp Power = LOW
Lens Aperture = 0
Bulb Hours = 211

Estimated 340 Lumens


Jon's Findings:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...1#post19978921

They need to be taken with a light meter.

Readings from an eye-one mean zilch.

Of course it was taken with a light meter (I did not provide these numbers within CP using my EyeOne; I cal'd using EyeOne then used my light meter off the screen).

No problem, it's just the way you wrote it down it looked like you took it with an eye-one. Sorry.

No worrys. I have a better one taken w/ my mastech meter but still looking.

Haven't been able to find my post on the updated lumens but I think the above is enough to prove Jon's point. Stuck at work debugging code but maybe this weekend I can find after I return from my trip up north.

Are JVC warrranties transferable if you sell it to a buyer used but originally purchased it from an authorized dealer?

+1....

The JVC warranty is not transferable. It runs to the original owner who bought from an authorized dealer.

Many after market warranties like Mack warranties are transferrable but you have to take some action to transfer the warranty.

I honestly have not noticed the white streaks, but I will do the Oppo screensaver test and report back.

For 3D I have the same observations as you. But I have noticed that the contrast level of 3D on the X70 is MUCH higher than the X7. And as such I suspect the ghosting increases in contrast as well. I did notice setting the white crosstalk setting to -8 helped. Then reducing contrast by as much as -20 ended up with an image more like the X7 with very little crosstalk. But there seems to be some kind of forced edge enhancement that is making the crosstalk worse than it should be. I am trying to get to the bottom of that.