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Official JVC RS55/X70 owners thread. - Page 122

post #3631 of 3669
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonStatt View Post

I was wondering that too! That's comparing last years X70 with this years X55 and while the X70 does maintain a contrast advantage (80k:1 vs 50k:1), it only achieves that with the aperture stopped down. Of course the X70 was a very good projector....and arguably e-shift 1 appeals to some as actually better than e-shift 2. Nevertheless with the bulb issues, I would have probably swayed towards the X55/RS4810

I shouldn't have said "a big step up", it's more of a noticeable improvement IMO. In terms of contrast, black level, and eshift1. Don't get me wrong, the rs4810 is a nice projector, but I prefer the sense of depth that the x70 offered over the rs4810. The eshift2 (even on film) had a much more digital look to me than the eshift1, but that is my opinion. I've owned a rs45 and rs46 as well, but the 4810 (outside of being able to have it more accurately calibrated) looked too similar to those models (to me) in contrast and black level to justify the extra cost. With the x70, I feel that the premium was justified because I could see the difference when doing an A to B comparison. Again, this is just me.

The RS4810 is better with 3D, but I don't watch much 3D so that wasn't a deciding factor for me. On a side note, I use the Monstervision Max 3D and like it much more than JVC's 3D glasses.

Gear mentioned in this thread:

post #3632 of 3669
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbn008 View Post

I shouldn't have said "a big step up", it's more of a noticeable improvement IMO. In terms of contrast, black level, and eshift1. Don't get me wrong, the rs4810 is a nice projector, but I prefer the sense of depth that the x70 offered over the rs4810. The eshift2 (even on film) had a much more digital look to me than the eshift1, but that is my opinion. I've owned a rs45 and rs46 as well, but the 4810 (outside of being able to have it more accurately calibrated) looked too similar to those models (to me) in contrast and black level to justify the extra cost. With the x70, I feel that the premium was justified because I could see the difference when doing an A to B comparison. Again, this is just me.

The RS4810 is better with 3D, but I don't watch much 3D so that wasn't a deciding factor for me. On a side note, I use the Monstervision Max 3D and like it much more than JVC's 3D glasses.


Fair enough, I been improving my room to the point where I can just see the limitations of my 4810. I'm curious what the ANSI contrast is for the 55, 75 and 95 are respectively. Currently I'm on low lamp -15 iris 80% or so max zoom. It's been a pain in the ass to measure contrast on a HP screen the best I got was 61000:1. My i1D3 only measures down to .002 cd/m2, I can hit that easily and it skews my contrast numbers as I can open my iris and still hit that. Not so sure it looks any different from 30000:1. I been contemplating whether an X75 would be noticeable in black level and ANSI.

I notice when I have the mouse icon on a completely black screen there is a blooming or halo effect. Very very slight but I can see it when I'm very close to screen.

I'm so scared to give Mike or Craig a call to see what specials they have on the RS56 and 66. I am super pleased with my 4810 now that my room is completely black velvet I can make use of all that contrast.
Edited by cischico - 8/5/13 at 5:09pm
post #3633 of 3669
Quote:
Originally Posted by cischico View Post

Fair enough, I been improving my room to the point where I can just see the limitations of my 4810. I'm curious what the ANSI contrast is for the 55, 75 and 95 are respectively. Currently I'm on low lamp -15 iris 80% or so max zoom. It's been a pain in the ass to measure contrast on a HP screen the best I got was 61000:1. My i1D3 only measures down to .002 cd/m2, I can hit that easily and it skews my contrast numbers as I can open my iris and still hit that. Not so sure it looks any different from 30000:1. I been contemplating whether an X75 would be noticeable in black level and ANSI.

I notice when I have the mouse icon on a completely black screen there is a blooming or halo effect. Very very slight but I can see it when I'm very close to screen.

I'm so scared to give Mike or Craig a call to see what specials they have on the RS56 and 66. I am super pleased with my 4810 now that my room is completely black velvet I can make use of all that contrast.


The ANSI contrast ratio is the same across the entire JVC range this year. In last year's model the ANSI contrast was actually lower (about 30%) for the X70/X90 models due to optical design constraints with the e-shift mechanism. Generally this years JVC range is regarded as having an ANSI contrast of around 400:1. Only the native on/off contrast ratio varies across the models. I am sure you would be able to see the improved contrast of an X75 over a X55 but whether its worth the increase in cost is down to your own personal evaluation. It is the law of diminishing returns and it is not a "chalk and cheese" difference. You are unlikely to get an X75 on -15 aperture because the light output is considerably dimmer at -15 due to the dual aperture mechanism.

To measure contrast properly you cannot really do it without a proper light meter. To avoid the range issues you describe, with a proper light meter, you stick it about 3 inches away from the lens.
post #3634 of 3669
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonStatt View Post

The ANSI contrast ratio is the same across the entire JVC range this year. In last year's model the ANSI contrast was actually lower (about 30%) for the X70/X90 models due to optical design constraints with the e-shift mechanism. Generally this years JVC range is regarded as having an ANSI contrast of around 400:1. Only the native on/off contrast ratio varies across the models. I am sure you would be able to see the improved contrast of an X75 over a X55 but whether its worth the increase in cost is down to your own personal evaluation. It is the law of diminishing returns and it is not a "chalk and cheese" difference. You are unlikely to get an X75 on -15 aperture because the light output is considerably dimmer at -15 due to the dual aperture mechanism.

To measure contrast properly you cannot really do it without a proper light meter. To avoid the range issues you describe, with a proper light meter, you stick it about 3 inches away from the lens.

I chose the X70 over the X75 because it was cheaper, but basically the same 2D image (as per avforums and projectorreviews; 3D was the advantage with the X75). Before I purchased the X70, I had the VW95ES and RS4810. I reached out to Art @ projectorreviews and Steve Withers @ AVforums (both who I respect for projector reviews) to ask them for their opinions and each said the same thing. In terms of strictly 2D picture quality, their personal rankings:

1. X75/ X70
2. VW95ES
3. RS4810

Steve Withers with AVforums: "If you aren't concerned about 3D then I'd go for the X70, beautiful 2D images with superior calibration controls compared to the X55 and superior blacks".

As a result, I purchased a X70 and did the comparison with all 3 projectors myself. I came to the same conclusion as Steve and Art. As far as the aperture is concerned, I had the 4810, and X70 both at -10, but the X70's blacks were definitely deeper for the same level of brightness. You're right, it is a law of diminishing returns, but there is a difference in picture quality if you're willing to pay for it.
post #3635 of 3669
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonStatt View Post

The ANSI contrast ratio is the same across the entire JVC range this year. In last year's model the ANSI contrast was actually lower (about 30%) for the X70/X90 models due to optical design constraints with the e-shift mechanism. Generally this years JVC range is regarded as having an ANSI contrast of around 400:1. Only the native on/off contrast ratio varies across the models. I am sure you would be able to see the improved contrast of an X75 over a X55 but whether its worth the increase in cost is down to your own personal evaluation. It is the law of diminishing returns and it is not a "chalk and cheese" difference. You are unlikely to get an X75 on -15 aperture because the light output is considerably dimmer at -15 due to the dual aperture mechanism.

To measure contrast properly you cannot really do it without a proper light meter. To avoid the range issues you describe, with a proper light meter, you stick it about 3 inches away from the lens.

Thanks for the info, What light meter do you recommend?
post #3636 of 3669
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbn008 View Post

I chose the X70 over the X75 because it was cheaper, but basically the same 2D image (as per avforums and projectorreviews; 3D was the advantage with the X75). Before I purchased the X70, I had the VW95ES and RS4810. I reached out to Art @ projectorreviews and Steve Withers @ AVforums (both who I respect for projector reviews) to ask them for their opinions and each said the same thing. In terms of strictly 2D picture quality, their personal rankings:

1. X75/ X70
2. VW95ES
3. RS4810

Steve Withers with AVforums: "If you aren't concerned about 3D then I'd go for the X70, beautiful 2D images with superior calibration controls compared to the X55 and superior blacks".

As a result, I purchased a X70 and did the comparison with all 3 projectors myself. I came to the same conclusion as Steve and Art. As far as the aperture is concerned, I had the 4810, and X70 both at -10, but the X70's blacks were definitely deeper for the same level of brightness. You're right, it is a law of diminishing returns, but there is a difference in picture quality if you're willing to pay for it.


Thanks for your inputs, Cedia is at the end of September, can't wait to see what is in store. I'm hoping for a true 4K model and the x75 and x95 contrast levels shift down to the lower models. Win win for everybody! But I do hope for faster panels it's been how many years now with the same panels?
post #3637 of 3669
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbn008 View Post

I chose the X70 over the X75 because it was cheaper, but basically the same 2D image (as per avforums and projectorreviews; 3D was the advantage with the X75). Before I purchased the X70, I had the VW95ES and RS4810. I reached out to Art @ projectorreviews and Steve Withers @ AVforums (both who I respect for projector reviews) to ask them for their opinions and each said the same thing. In terms of strictly 2D picture quality, their personal rankings:

1. X75/ X70
2. VW95ES
3. RS4810

Steve Withers with AVforums: "If you aren't concerned about 3D then I'd go for the X70, beautiful 2D images with superior calibration controls compared to the X55 and superior blacks".

As a result, I purchased a X70 and did the comparison with all 3 projectors myself. I came to the same conclusion as Steve and Art. As far as the aperture is concerned, I had the 4810, and X70 both at -10, but the X70's blacks were definitely deeper for the same level of brightness. You're right, it is a law of diminishing returns, but there is a difference in picture quality if you're willing to pay for it.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with the X70 as a purchase. I did very much enjoy the image produced by it. I am a 3D fan so the X75 fits my bill even more perfectly. I got lucky with the X75 and it is exceeding its rated contrast on my copy, so I am seeing more of a difference than one would typically expect.

While I completely understand choosing the X70 for its image quality and e-shift 1 mechanism, I am curious by Steve Wither's comments on the calibration controls. I thought the X55 had an identical set of controls to the X70/X75/X90/X95.
post #3638 of 3669
Quote:
Originally Posted by cischico View Post

Thanks for your inputs, Cedia is at the end of September, can't wait to see what is in store. I'm hoping for a true 4K model and the x75 and x95 contrast levels shift down to the lower models. Win win for everybody! But I do hope for faster panels it's been how many years now with the same panels?

Until HDMI 2.0 and Blu-ray 4K standard is all complete and out there....I won't be going anywhere near any 4K models. My guess right now is that JVC will not launch a 4K model this year, but demonstrate a prototype at the show so people know what is coming. I am concerned that people who buy these earlier 4K models may be left with a bitter taste when they find it out it won't play this or that in the future. And if manufacturers have the same concern, they may play it safe this year.....
post #3639 of 3669
Quote:
Originally Posted by cischico View Post

Thanks for the info, What light meter do you recommend?

I use a photographic light meter that I already had for my photograpy hobby (Another expensive hobby!). But people on here do very well with this

http://www.amazon.com/AEMC-CA813-Function-Lightmeter-Resolution/dp/B008S0AHSY/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1375777560&sr=8-1&keywords=ca813
post #3640 of 3669
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonStatt View Post

Until HDMI 2.0 and Blu-ray 4K standard is all complete and out there....I won't be going anywhere near any 4K models. My guess right now is that JVC will not launch a 4K model this year, but demonstrate a prototype at the show so people know what is coming. I am concerned that people who buy these earlier 4K models may be left with a bitter taste when they find it out it won't play this or that in the future. And if manufacturers have the same concern, they may play it safe this year.....

Any 4K projector that comes out this fall better have a clear upgrade path stated for HDMI 2.0. I couldn't imagine buying a 4K projector and not being certain that it will play 4K source material or that an upgrade isn't an option. I am very much wanting to get a new JVC projector this fall and might have the money for the 4K model and it would be discouraging if HDMI 2.0 is not addressed.

Mike
post #3641 of 3669
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonStatt View Post

There is absolutely nothing wrong with the X70 as a purchase. I did very much enjoy the image produced by it. I am a 3D fan so the X75 fits my bill even more perfectly. I got lucky with the X75 and it is exceeding its rated contrast on my copy, so I am seeing more of a difference than one would typically expect.

While I completely understand choosing the X70 for its image quality and e-shift 1 mechanism, I am curious by Steve Wither's comments on the calibration controls. I thought the X55 had an identical set of controls to the X70/X75/X90/X95.

I was wondering what he meant by that as well. I'd take the x75 over the x70 any day, but within my budget, I felt that the x70 was the better choice for me over the x55.
post #3642 of 3669
Hey Guys
My X70 got an issue of 100% blue colors form AVSHD. I set up these by the colorHCFR and colormunki display reference is AVSHD.
after adjustment the contrast ratio is 2.17, color tempture is around 6500k, look perfect, but I check the RGBCMY colors by my setting. The 100% blue from AVSHDlooks like way off become purple.
My set up as below
color profile: cinema 1
color Temp.: custom
correction value 5500k
gain red: 0
gain green -20
gain blue -100
offset red -9
offset green 4
offset blue 13
I got above number before going into custom gamma. The blue must reduce huge to get the RGB balance near 99~100%, but that cause blue way off the correct color, but the movie playback looks fine, I can not see any strange blue colors or become purple, but the AVSHD 100% blue chart looks like purple.
I don't get it ??

My lamp hour 200h
scree is the Da-Lite matte white (screen adjust no. 007 base on the list)

whats wrong with my blue color?? mad.gif
post #3643 of 3669
Quote:
Originally Posted by crabarts231 View Post

Hey Guys
My X70 got an issue of 100% blue colors form AVSHD. I set up these by the colorHCFR and colormunki display reference is AVSHD.
after adjustment the contrast ratio is 2.17, color tempture is around 6500k, look perfect, but I check the RGBCMY colors by my setting. The 100% blue from AVSHDlooks like way off become purple.
My set up as below
color profile: cinema 1
color Temp.: custom
correction value 5500k
gain red: 0
gain green -20
gain blue -100
offset red -9
offset green 4
offset blue 13
I got above number before going into custom gamma. The blue must reduce huge to get the RGB balance near 99~100%, but that cause blue way off the correct color, but the movie playback looks fine, I can not see any strange blue colors or become purple, but the AVSHD 100% blue chart looks like purple.
I don't get it ??

My lamp hour 200h
scree is the Da-Lite matte white (screen adjust no. 007 base on the list)

whats wrong with my blue color?? mad.gif

This will sound harsh but I believe it is a design defect in the RS55's.
I had this happen to mine and nothing I tried would fix it. JVC told me I was "too picky". I have personal knowledge of at least 4 other RS55's with purple'ish blues and I'm semi-convinced that most, if not all, will eventually end up with purple blues.

What I did notice is that if you set all three gains to zero then blue becomes blue again. The problem with this is the WB is WAY off. But if you dial in a proper WB blue becomes purpleish as blue gain is reduced (my blue gain was -140 (vs your -100).......talk about purple mountains majesty....somehow though Clint Eastwood westerns look funny with purple skiies (oops, there I go again being "too picky"). Changing the lamp does not help.

I suggest you contact your dealer and discuss it with him. There is no way you should have to settle for purple blues with only 200 hours on the machine. I will also note that one (non-US) person had JVC tell him that the problem was NOT normal so maybe you'll have better luck with JVC USA at this point in time (other than being told you're "too picky").

You may be able to reduce the problem some if you have a Lumagen - leave all 3 gains set to 0 and correct WB in the Lumagen. This worked for one person but in my case there was too much correction needed to achieve a decent artifact free image. Your results may vary.....
Edited by Geof - 8/31/13 at 11:48am
post #3644 of 3669
Got it, seems like what you said that the WB is way off, but the video/film playback looks fine. Forget about the blue as long as it looks fine in the movie. cool.gifcool.gif
post #3645 of 3669
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geof View Post

This will sound harsh but I believe it is a design defect in the RS55's.
I had this happen to mine and nothing I tried would fix it. JVC told me I was "too picky". I have personal knowledge of at least 4 other RS55's with purple'ish blues and I'm semi-convinced that most, if not all, will eventually end up with purple blues.

What I did notice is that if you set all three gains to zero then blue becomes blue again. The problem with this is the WB is WAY off. But if you dial in a proper WB blue becomes purpleish as blue gain is reduced (my blue gain was -140 (vs your -100).......talk about purple mountains majesty....somehow though Clint Eastwood westerns look funny with purple skiies (oops, there I go again being "too picky"). Changing the lamp does not help.

I suggest you contact your dealer and discuss it with him. There is no way you should have to settle for purple blues with only 200 hours on the machine. I will also note that one (non-US) person had JVC tell him that the problem was NOT normal so maybe you'll have better luck with JVC USA at this point in time (other than being told you're "too picky").

You may be able to reduce the problem some if you have a Lumagen - leave all 3 gains set to 0 and correct WB in the Lumagen. This worked for one person but in my case there was too much correction needed to achieve a decent artifact free image. Your results may vary.....

Unfortunately I believe you are right on as this one person is finding even after our hours of conversation with you & Jonathan on balancing this, most of my scenes now appear to have the dreaded purplish hue (and as you know Geof that's with the Lumagen!). I think I'm at roughly 550hrs. wink.gif
post #3646 of 3669
Also you don't want your offsets above 0 for any color as this raises the black level on all JVC's which is a big no-no.

Mike
post #3647 of 3669
Quote:
Originally Posted by krichter1 View Post

Unfortunately I believe you are right on as this one person is finding even after our hours of conversation with you & Jonathan on balancing this, most of my scenes now appear to have the dreaded purplish hue (and as you know Geof that's with the Lumagen!). I think I'm at roughly 550hrs. wink.gif
Ah, that really sucks Kevin. I wasn't too confident on your machine when we talked about it way back when and it sounds like it has drifted more towards magenta since then...what is your blue gain now?

I trust you'll be watching CEDIA reports with renewed interested this year?
post #3648 of 3669
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geof View Post

Ah, that really sucks Kevin. I wasn't too confident on your machine when we talked about it way back when and it sounds like it has drifted more towards magenta since then...what is your blue gain now?

I trust you'll be watching CEDIA reports with renewed interested this year?

Ya know it's been so long since I've touched the Lumagen I'm not really sure where I'm at these days but I really haven't done another 125pt cal since we were going through all your "JVC nit picking" (God your picky!) biggrin.giftongue.gif after the new year. I should really dig in and do it all over again but with all my other priorities this spring/summer (all my dental surgeries remember?), I really haven't spent much time anal-yzing over the 55's PQ, (maybe that's not such a bad thing since I'm just enjoying movies these days during my recuperation phase!).

Not sure this year will gain anything of real substance over the 55; especially after reading thru the recent "2014 JVC's..." thread this week (doesn't sound like anything more than a few tweaks and as Jonathan said... maybe another 10K or so in CR (whoop-dee-do!)). That and having to foot the bill on four different surgeries... I'm poor these days! It'll still make for some good reading though! smile.gif
Edited by krichter1 - 9/1/13 at 2:39pm
post #3649 of 3669
Alright, I checkee some more video, like the Legend of flight IMAX, a lot of blue scene. One of them is the introduction the first 787, the flight belongs to ANA. I am kindof familiar with ANA. The color of ANA is light and dark blue. The light blue becomes light purple, so does the dark blue, but not that obvious.
The purplish become more obvious after I found out this issue. There is no way to adjust WB in Taiwan by the jvc official service.
I think I have 2 options here. Keep 6500k and all my settings or use the preset to get the best contrast setting, but forget about the 6500k (I'll use cinema or THX to adjust)
post #3650 of 3669
I had to use 6500K and then use my Lumagen XE3D with CALMAN to get things a bit better. 5500K starting point always resulted in a purplish blue for my setup. SJ
post #3651 of 3669
Two questions, if you please:

1. My calibration seems to have drifted as I'm getting a more magenta/purple hue to the image (and the dreaded redish/purple lips on actors starting to happen).
Will putting in a new bulb get the image somewhat closer to the original look of calibration? (Since it was calibrated with a fairly new bulb)?

2. I have only one pair of 3D glasses that I bought with my RS55 projector, and now I want to buy several more. Any suggestions which I should buy? The ones I own are JVC 3D glasses and are marked as
"PK-AG1-B" if that's helpful. Should I just order the same glasses again? I'm also wondering about future compatibility with any new JVC projector I might buy in the next year or two (or three).

Thanks for any input!

(And...holy gawd those glasses are expensive! If I wanted to buy 4 glasses so the family could watch 3D it would cost with taxes around $800. Eight. Hundred. Dollars. To watch some films in 3D.
Gee, I wonder why 3D hasn't really taken off for home viewers...)
Edited by R Harkness - 9/12/13 at 5:56pm
post #3652 of 3669
I'll try to set colorhcfr at D75 and do all over again.
For me contrast is top1, then colors, the last is the colortempture. Honestly myself prefer a little bit high color tempture thhat makes image colder. Even when I shoot photos, I do the same way.
Lumage is way beyond affordable to me. If I want to buy, I"ll buy the one like 2041, 2042 could upscale to 4k, but thats too expensive to me.
Edited by crabarts231 - 9/13/13 at 1:23am
post #3653 of 3669
Quote:
Originally Posted by R Harkness View Post

(And...holy gawd those glasses are expensive! If I wanted to buy 4 glasses so the family could watch 3D it would cost with taxes around $800. Eight. Hundred. Dollars. To watch some films in 3D.
Gee, I wonder why 3D hasn't really taken off for home viewers...)

I paid $29.00/pair for some Samsung 3D RF glasses that work with the Epson and and new Sony 3D projectors. Four pairs of glasses for under $120.00. At this point in time the cost of the glasses should not be a big deal.
post #3654 of 3669
Hi all. Was wondering if anyone can post the settings that u use? I now have it on THX. I am awaiting professional calibration. Was wondering if I can tweak the settings to get the image looking better. biggrin.gif. Thanks.
post #3655 of 3669
Quote:
Originally Posted by stlcity View Post

Was wondering if I can tweak the settings to get the image looking better. biggrin.gif. Thanks.
Generally speaking, no. That's why there are adjustments and controls available. If there was only one "best" set of settings that everyone should use, they wouldn't provide most of the adjustments as there would be no point.

There are variances in every projector which is why they provide adjustments. The only way to properly calibrate it (either yourself or by a pro) is using a meter so that you can take readings while you make adjustments in order to achieve the best you can towards known standards like HD (Rec709). Your pro will (or should) measure and adjust greyscale, colour gamut (primaries/secondaries), gamma, and do other simple adjustments like contrast/brightness to avoid crushing/clipping.

Kal
post #3656 of 3669
I went back and work again, I changed the color space to Video, the range almost fit with REC709
The seting as below:
Color profile: Video
Color Temp: Custom
Gamma: Custom
CMS: Off
The CIE is much better

why the color profile Cinema would keep the purplish issue, but the Standard or Video won't......so strange.
post #3657 of 3669
Best source of replacement bulbs for these projectors?
post #3658 of 3669
Hello all,

I need some help with my JVC X70. I was doing some calibrations with the JVC and noticed when displaying a 20% grayscale window there was a fair amount of, what I can only call, noise in the picture. It looks like some kind of digital noise (it pulses even on a static screen almost like mosquito noise). I did a search for this and found that this was apparently a known issue with the RS40. Has anyone else noticed this? When looking through higher grayscale levels all the way up to white you can see it, but it becomes less apparent. You can't really see this from a seated position too well. You need to be close to the screen. I just want to make sure that I am not the only one experiencing this...

Thanks in advance,

John
post #3659 of 3669
I forgot to add one other thing: It appears the OP on this thread also identified this "visible" noise in his initial review. Again, any thoughts would be helpful.
post #3660 of 3669
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bullitt5094 View Post

Best source of replacement bulbs for these projectors?

AV Science is always a good place to start. smile.gif
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