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Official JVC RS55/X70 owners thread. - Page 4

post #91 of 3669
These should be sold only as 2D in my opinion. And 3D should be one of the added on features like 2D-3D conversion and lens control. I wonder how much it would cost if it was being sold strictly for 2D... What 2D projector is the equivalent to JVCs? When the RS25 and RS35 came out they were priced with a msrp of $8k and $10k, maybe they should do this instead of labeling these 3D.

Gear mentioned in this thread:

post #92 of 3669
Quote:
Originally Posted by fight4yu View Post

let's pray that it does something magical.. Joe, please make this your priority after your honeymoon!!

I promise.
post #93 of 3669
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toe View Post

Then they should just remove the 3d "feature" completely. If however they are going to advertise this as a 3d projector, which obviously they are, it is open to critical debate/comparison vs other models. IF the ghosting gets worse as the hours are tacked on like previous models, these projectors are flat out broken IMHO from a 3d standpoint and JVC deserves all the **** the consumer gives them (IMO).

As far as lamp life, this is also a valid concern. Some people are willing to take the risk, others are not. Those willing to take the risk though have every right to go in cautiously optimistic so to speak considering the mess that is the 40/50/60 as far as the lamp issue is concerned. IF this issue is still present, JVC deserves whatever backlash it gets from the hard core projector community. The next year should be very interesting as far as these new models are concerned and it will be interesting to see what happens.

Anyone who takes an interest in this or similar forums should know about the second rate 3D performance so buying a JVC and then complaining about the 3D issues that you where aware of before purchase makes no sense to me.

Much the same can be said about potential lamp issues, if its a significant concern buy another brand and be happy.

Buying a JVC and then complaining is not sending JVC a message they will take much notice of. Buying another projector brand will get the massage across much more effectively.
post #94 of 3669
Quote:
Originally Posted by xb1032 View Post

Would you purchase a convertible and be happy with your purchase not knowing if you could put the top down after so many drives because of a potential design flaw with the automobile knowing the manufacturer probably wouldn't cover it if it's under warranty?

If you know about the problem and buy anyway who's the fool.
post #95 of 3669
Quote:
Originally Posted by Owen View Post

If you know about the problem and buy anyway who's the fool.

I think the difference is that we are NEVER told by JVC that the lamp and 3D issues are "real".. no one expect those to be "real". If JVC comes out like Apple did with the Antenna gate problem, then it is a different story because at least Apple admit the problem.. so if you still insist on buying, then definitely it is the user problem.
post #96 of 3669
Manufacturers only admit to a problem when they are left with absolutely no other choice, so expecting JVC to come clean is unrealistic and wishful thinking.

Its up to the buyer to determine if 3D performance is adequate before purchase and expect that ghosting my increase as the lamp ages.

As for the lamp, its yet to be seen if performance is sub standard and it will take some time for that to be determined. Until then those who cant accept the possibility of inconvenience or expense due to early lamp dimming or failure should consider other options.

For those who want the 2D performance the JVC's have to offer there is no other choice, a failed lamp is a risk you have to accept.
post #97 of 3669
I would wait for change my AE7000 for the RS-55 in december, but i will not risk it now. I brought the VW-95 and i will wait until march for see how the RS-55 will behave, for now i will delay my dream to put a JVC in my home. I am in Brazil and here will be very difficult to change the lamp or replace the projector. So, its better wait, at least in my case.
post #98 of 3669
Food for thought....
Every comment I've read thus far states the new Crosstalk cancel control has no effect. Perhaps this will become more useful when the lamp starts dimming.....
post #99 of 3669
sony 95
post #100 of 3669
We don't have enough information to form any conclusions yet.

It is too early to trash and it is too early to praise.

The only thing I can say is that JVC needs to work on its product launches because this is the second year in a row that things have been screwed up.

I think people are right to be skeptical, especially those who are RS50 owners, but lets have a little patience.

One thing is sure that I have heard very good things from people that I trust about the Sony vw-95, so this is no time for JVC to be resting on its laurels. For the first time in a long time JVC faces real competition both on performance and price.

Competition is good for us!
post #101 of 3669
Until Sony can provide a projector with comparable native contrast to the JVC's I don't see them as competitive for 2D, which is my only interest.

With around 400 hours on my X3 the only aspect of performance I would like to see improved is contrast and black level, so an X90 is the only upgrade I would consider.
post #102 of 3669
Quote:
Originally Posted by Owen View Post

Anyone who takes an interest in this or similar forums should know about the second rate 3D performance so buying a JVC and then complaining about the 3D issues that you where aware of before purchase makes no sense to me.

Much the same can be said about potential lamp issues, if its a significant concern buy another brand and be happy.

Buying a JVC and then complaining is not sending JVC a message they will take much notice of. Buying another projector brand will get the massage across much more effectively.

It makes perfect sense to "complain" about the 3d performance or ANY other issues that arise. If the issues are not brought up, there is less of a chance they will get fixed in future models or via firmware (if possible). Bringing up the issues is good for everyone in the long run.

There are countless examples on this forum alone where issues have been brought up, or as you say people "complained", and the issue was either resolved within that model (via firmware or other means) or improved/corrected with future iterations. If everyone was like you and said nothing, a lot of these issues would not have been resolved. People speaking up about ALL these issues is good for everyone no matter if you realize it or not.

Having said all that, I am buying my RS45 for its 2d mainly since ~90% of my viewing is that and I LOVED my 40 for 2d. I still have every right to bring up whatever issues I may find for 2d or 3d just like anyone else and we should be encouraging others to do the same, not sit on their hands so to speak.

I guess what I am getting at and I hope its obvious is I dont agree with you (and you me) which is OK I stand by my previous comments that if JVC is going to sell these as 2d/3d projectors then all critique/debate is fair ground.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Owen View Post

Until Sony can provide a projector with comparable native contrast to the JVC's I don't see them as competitive for 2D, which is my only interest.

With around 400 hours on my X3 the only aspect of performance I would like to see improved is contrast and black level, so an X90 is the only upgrade I would consider.

It depends on what type of 2d you are watching I would say. Just about everyone who has compared a Sony to JVC for sports for example would claim the Sony champ for a variety of reasons including better native motion, better FI, better ANSI contrast, etc.......There are many other factors that make up the BIG picture besides native contrast.

You have no constructive "complaints" about your X3 AT ALL besides getting better black level? You are easy to please I must say. The RS40 is the overall best projector I have owned, but there is always room for improvement and quite a few areas I would like to see get better with future models.
post #103 of 3669
You like everyone else can "complain" as much as you like if you think it will achieve anything, buy buying a product that you know does not fit your needs or has known issues that concern you and then set about complaining and expecting a fix does not make much sense to me. This sends JVC the message that people are silly enough to purchase their projectors with or without problems so why should they care about complaints?
post #104 of 3669
I am sure jvc will notice when more and more start moving to Sony or other brands.
post #105 of 3669
We should wait to see if the firmware change fixes the issue. It seems that this 70 got out before it should have. I think we will have answers to most questions in a few weeks when the units get out.
post #106 of 3669
Quote:
Originally Posted by Owen View Post

You like everyone else can "complain" as much as you like if you think it will achieve anything, buy buying a product that you know does not fit your needs or has known issues that concern you and then set about complaining and expecting a fix does not make much sense to me. This sends JVC the message that people are silly enough to purchase their projectors with or without problems so why should they care about complaints?

Did you miss the part where I said ~90% of my viewing is 2d and my RS40 kicked ass for this purpose? Obviously the 45 fits my needs better than anything else all things considered or I would not have bought one Having said that, the 45 like any projector is not going to be perfect and the weak points should be brought to the table in hopes of improvement.

Like I said, there are COUNTLESS examples where issues have been brought up and rectified either in that same model, or in later models. If we all did as you say and keep quiet and sit on our hands, a lot of these issues would not have been resolved, or at least not as quickly. What you see as "complaining" I see as constructive critique. This is certainly nothing new to forums though and if it bothers you, just ignore it. It certainly is not going to stop.
post #107 of 3669
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toe View Post

Did you miss the part where I said ~90% of my viewing is 2d and my RS40 kicked ass for this purpose? Obviously the 45 fits my needs better than anything else all things considered or I would not have bought one

My comment was general and directed at people looking to buy, not you in particular.

I am not suggesting that people with problems should not complain, but complaining to JVC would be much more useful then winging on a forum.
post #108 of 3669
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lawguy View Post

We don't have enough information to form any conclusions yet.

It is too early to trash and it is too early to praise.

The only thing I can say is that JVC needs to work on its product launches because this is the second year in a row that things have been screwed up.

I think people are right to be skeptical, especially those who are RS50 owners, but lets have a little patience.

One thing is sure that I have heard very good things from people that I trust about the Sony vw-95, so this is no time for JVC to be resting on its laurels. For the first time in a long time JVC faces real competition both on performance and price.

Competition is good for us!

Little early to report that JVC has screwed anything up.
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post #109 of 3669
So far, those who have received their X30/X70 are observing ghosting and crosstalk on 3D, so its mostly likely to be a slight defect that will not be corrected.
Also, the 30 minute warm appears to still be required like the previous models according to the post in the X30/RS45 thread.

It seems we then assume the early bulb failures and dimming will also be present???

I guess we have all been warned by these initial observations and buy knowing the risks.

I was hoping to dive in to a JVC this year but now I'm not sure.

Btw: Magnolia HiFi sells these and are not aware of these issues from previous models and either will their customers.
post #110 of 3669
Quote:
Originally Posted by Owen View Post

If you know about the problem and buy anyway who's the fool.

I am purchasing the RS45 and yes I am taking a risk but the point isn't whethr I am a fool or you are. The point is if the projector is being marketed as a 3D projector then is should perform as advertised. And from your suggestion to Toe if others didn't complain on forums and only complained to JVC then we wouldn't know if issues were wide spread. Enough complaints gets the attention of manufacturers and yes they do check forums like these.
post #111 of 3669
I'm sure glad people complain about their projectors. That way I have a heads up about potential issues. I'm not buying a JVC this year because 3D is important to me. I appreciate the comments about "ghosting" so I know what to stay away from. If I didn't already have a 2D projector I'm happy to live with for awhile I would be tempted to buy a JVC for 2D only and a 1080p DLP for 3D - some are actually doing this and I understand why.

What really astounds me is the huge difference in tolerance among forum members when it comes to 3D crosstalk -- either that or quality control is non-existent.
post #112 of 3669
Thread Starter 
Wow. Everyone needs to relax This thread started so nice and now it's already a JVC bashing fest. If anyone has a right to bash JVC it would be me due to the crap I had to deal with the X7. But, I don't judge an entire company or their product line up due to one bad projector (yes, I know other people had issues too, but mine were to the next level)

I've done a lot more watching and I will confirm that the 2D is REALLY good. I actually get goose bumps watching the same material I've seen before. I've watched a few movies from start to finish, and the level of detail the X70 produces is unmatched. You can see what every metal, fiber and texture is made off. You notice creases, patterns on walls, bad paint on sets, etc. Really nice and pulls you into the movie.

I'm not positive, but it looks like ANSI contrast has gone up dramatically also (need someone like Sowk who does ANSI measurements) to test it. But, bright scenes really pop WAY more then on the X7, even with the IRIS clamped down.

I don't do professional reviews, or any measurements. I used to in the CRT days but I find that once you go down that route, it's an never ending path, and actually stops me from enjoying the reason I bought the projector. To WATCH movies and not to fiddle with CMS, greyscale, gamma, etc after every movie, and then while watching movies wondering if I need a recalibration because i've had the projector going for 20 hours, or if my greyscale has shifted due to some bulb age. I will get x70 calibrated and then leave it until a lamp change (hopefully won't happen to soon) but I can tell you I've owned over 15 projectors and I know what makes a good picture, and the X70 is the real deal. I can't wait until we also get some "professional" reviews from the likes of Cine4home or some of our members. The only thing with "professional" reviews is that they tend to focus all about the numbers and colour charts etc, but don't really provide an opinion. I find cine4home is like a really good spec sheet with accurate numbers but when have they ever compared one projector to another in subjective analysis. I know what my eyes see, and it likes what it see

On to 3D. Watched some more content (I have over 60 3D blurays) and it's not as bad as I originally thought. For live action stuff, the ghosting is not really that bad, but some movies like Giants of Pantagoria (sp) destroy the X70, and still have more ghosting then the X7, but the majority is not too bad. It seems to stand out more so in animated movies, but again it was much worse on cars 2, and Despicable Me, then on How to Train your Dragon or Open Season.

The Positives on the 3D are: Brighter, sharper, and better colour.

The Negatives are: more ghosting.

I wonder if the whole process of keeping the shutters open longer to increase brightness is the sole reason for the ghosting? If the shutter is open to long it will not block out the image from the other eye. Maybe they can add a mode that lets you choose the brightness level (shutter speed) at the expense of ghosting. Also the ghosting doesn't look normal. It reminds me of overdrive ghosting which I had on an LCD where the panels are driven way to hard and produce a strange contour around edges to the ghosting. I'll post pics.

Also, I don't have a final firmware so who knows if that fixes anything, not to mention I don't have the new JVC glasses which may better sync to the new shutter speeds.

DON'T JUDGE THE X70 ON 3D YET. We don't know enough, and need more user feedback and final firmware.

I use a carada 110" BW screen. I've been mainly using the THX preset which looks very accurate (by eye) with great shadow detail, and great colour.
post #113 of 3669
Thread Starter 
As you can see the ghosting at the edges is very noticeable. Normally the ghost image is faint and doesn't have the "hard" outline that I see with the X70. Ghosting is very dependent on the individual also. I remember when I got my VW90 and was like WTF, and others on the forum where praising the 3D including a certain rod member, and now everyone says how crap the VW90 was for 3D. Many people will most likely have little issue with the 3D and it does look very good overall.

Seriously, your paying the money for the 2D, and the 3D is there because they CAN do it but the only tech that will give you perfect 3D is DLP.

If you guys can afford a 6000.00 projector, I'm sure you can afford a 400.00 Acer and be ghost free forever
LL
LL
LL
post #114 of 3669
Thread Starter 
pics of the service menu and Software version.
LL
LL
post #115 of 3669
Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5 View Post

Little early to report that JVC has screwed anything up.

I guess that people can disagree but I think that when dealers pull units from customers and the launch is delayed over a firmware issue that there is some evidence that the launch is not going smoothly.
post #116 of 3669
Quote:
Originally Posted by conan48 View Post

pics of the service menu and Software version.

How about a pic of a single pixel crosshatch pattern?
post #117 of 3669
Dear conan or any expert in projector world
How about in 2d whiche flowing projector you recommended for me the most impotrent for me black/ sharpness /bright i am concering for movie only 3d will be seconde use
1-jvc rs60
2-jvc rs55
3-Sony vw95es
4-any other brand
post #118 of 3669
Quote:
Originally Posted by conan48 View Post


If you guys can afford a 6000.00 projector, I'm sure you can afford a 400.00 Acer and be ghost free forever

now look what you did, dejavu is going to quote this line forever.

When I had the 40 and 50 side by side, there were noticeable variances in ghosting, both with new lamps. The 50, by some chance, had less ghosting than the 40.

I wasn't expecting major changes in 3D, the panels are still the same speed as before, maybe a few software tricks. I am curious to hear Joerod's 55 vs 30/95 in 3D, especially with the tuned MV3D's glasses which can go a long way to reducing ghosting on the Sony's to almost nil. FI in 3D on the Sony shouldn't be underestimated when you see it next to the JVC, it's much easier on my eyes on the Sony vs. the JVC.

things i'll be curious once Jonstatt get's his X70
  • D65 lumens (X7 vs. X70) - lumens w/ profile=off
  • gamma - does it affect the gray scale as bad as it does on the 50/60/
  • cms - jon and Mannie were the original to find the CMS issues and know the problem well
other:
  • variances like even focus, convergence, etc.
  • 3D ghosting reduction on 20-30 minute warmup, still the same as last year?
  • long term - did the lamp issue get fixed? No one can answer this for a while.
post #119 of 3669
For those buying a second projector only for 3D, what model is recommended? I looked at the under 3.5K forum and couldn't locate a thread for folks just comparing models on 3D performance.
post #120 of 3669
Quote:
Originally Posted by conan48 View Post

As you can see the ghosting at the edges is very noticeable. Normally the ghost image is faint and doesn't have the "hard" outline that I see with the X70. Ghosting is very dependent on the individual also. I remember when I got my VW90 and was like WTF, and others on the forum where praising the 3D including a certain rod member, and now everyone says how crap the VW90 was for 3D. Many people will most likely have little issue with the 3D and it does look very good overall.

Seriously, your paying the money for the 2D, and the 3D is there because they CAN do it but the only tech that will give you perfect 3D is DLP.

If you guys can afford a 6000.00 projector, I'm sure you can afford a 400.00 Acer and be ghost free forever

That looks bloody horrible.
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