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Official JVC X30 / RS45 owner's thread! - Page 56

post #1651 of 4435
I have a question for JVC owners out there. In the RS menus there is a black level adjust control (no not the brightness control). When you use it, various test patterns pop up. The manual says use the control for adjusting black level (Thank You so much manual writer for telling me that, I never would have guessed, and the manual gives the range in integers of the control), but that's it. Exactly what does the control do and how does one use the patterns that pop up to err set the control err correctly. Playing around, it one wants maximum on off, it would seem the control needs to be set to minimum which is a negative integer.
post #1652 of 4435
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toe View Post

One of the options in the service menu resets the lens to a no shift state. The other option resets the default position to however you have the lens shifted at the time. If you tried the latter option first, I assume the 2nd option will have no effect at that point.

Oh dear. This highlights the potential danger of going into the service menu and clicking on things just to see what happens. I made the exact same mistake a couple of years ago, but fortunately I knew how to restore this.

As you said, Toe, I think the original poster has messed up their centre lens position and lost the original notion of centre. So when then selecting the right option, it will just stay where it is now.

The only cure for this is to re-find true lens centre. A laser pointer can work well for this, by ensuring it is around the centre of the glass facing towards the front. Use something sticky that won't leave a mark on the screen to indicate this point. Then display a test image where it is clear what the central point of the image is (such as a grid pattern with a cross hair smack in the middle). Then use the lens shift to line up image centre with your mark. And then finally go into the service menu and choose "lens position reset".

The correct option which I believe is just called "lens center" is the one that should be used. If you see a warning come up like "reset lens data", then you have got it wrong!
post #1653 of 4435
If anyone wants to buy a pair of the NEW JVC glasses from me, let me know, I'll discount it from the new price. I am going to use something else.

I watched some 3D finally, mostly just VUDU previews. I will like the effect for scenery disks, but I have mixed feelings about it for movies. I can see myself enjoying it now and then, but also hating it at times enough to where I won't like it for many movies.

Lens Reset
---------------
Posted earlier by Geoff
Caution is advised because one selection actually takes the current position and makes it the new center (not sure what the command is called).

There is an IR command (which is not on the JVC remote) that will center the lens to the no shift position. The IR hex code is:

0000 006D 0001 0011 0141 00A0 0014 003C 0014 003C 0014 0014 0014 0014
0014 003C 0014 003C 0014 003C 0014 0014 0014 003C 0014 0014 0014 0014
0014 003C 0014 0014 0014 0014 0014 003C 0014 003C 0014 02E6
-------------------------------------------------
Another alternative

You can just measure the difference between the center of your lens to the center of the screen, then you will just move the len shift back exactly that amount. It will be hard to get it exact unless you have the projector mounted low like on a table or shelf, but you can get it within an inch or two. If you have it on a table, you can place something a few feet in front of the lens (like any pattern that marks an exact center bullseye, then just measure the distance from the lens to the bottom of the table and get the bullseye to match the distance of the center of the lens, something like that.
post #1654 of 4435
Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 4 View Post

I have a question for JVC owners out there. In the RS menues there is a black level adjust control (no not the brightness control). When you use it, various test patterns pop up. The manual says use the control for adjusting black level (Thank You so much manual writer for telling me that, I never would have guessed, and gives the range in integers of the control), but that's it. Exactly what doexs the control do and how does one use the patterns that pop up to err set the control err correctly. Pkaying around, it one wants maximum on off, it would seem the control needs to be set to minimum which is a negative integer.

Mark, we have indeed been having a conversation on this both in this thread and the RS55 one. We are not quite sure yet what it does! It does not seem to elevate the black floor in the same way raising brightness does.

The original intention of the feature was for rooms where lighting changes. So for example, for daytime viewing, you would just drop into this Black Level, adjust until you can see the second box (then probably drop one click back), and hey presto, all presets will now be adjusted for your ambient lighting.

To be clear the test pattern is just two black boxes. You raise the control until the right black box becomes "different" to the left one. Then, you might want to drop one click back. Job done.
post #1655 of 4435
Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 4 View Post

I have a question for JVC owners out there. In the RS menues there is a black level adjust control (no not the brightness control). When you use it, various test patterns pop up. The manual says use the control for adjusting black level (Thank You so much manual writer for telling me that, I never would have guessed, and gives the range in integers of the control), but that's it. . Pkaying around, it one wants maximum on off, it would seem the control needs to be set to minimum which is a negative integer.

I'll tell you what I know, but I'm not sure it'll be much help, would need to use a meter to be sure about the effects.

It defaults at 0 which is the minimum and I only see 1 test pattern pop-up when adjusting it, I left it at the minimum. The test pattern that pops up is just 2 squares, the left side is the previous value or the lowest value (say 0), and the right side is the newly adjusted value. As you adjust it the right side gets brighter kind of like if you were looking at a PLUGE pattern for brightness but with only 2 squares. I don't know if the idea is to use it like a pluge and adjust it until you see it get brighter and them back down one notch or what, I didn't have to mess with it to get my brightness/contrast detail showing correctly with the S&M test.
post #1656 of 4435
Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

I watched some 3D finally, mostly just VUDU previews. I will like the effect for scenery disks, but I have mixed feelings about it for movies. I can see myself enjoying it now and then, but also hating it at times enough to where I won't like it for many movies.

have you watched any 3D BD's or just SBS previews so far?
post #1657 of 4435
Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 4 View Post

This is really getting scrambled.


If you own Spectracal with the autocal bundle, you do not need a Lumagen to automate the calibration process. Autocal Spectracal works by hooking your laptop up to the projector OR a Lumagen or DVDO Duo for automation purposes. It will interface directly with the JVCs. If you want to fully calibrate a JVC RS45, you will need to add an external CMS to the JVC and one can do so by adding a Lumagen, DVDO Duu, Wideo Forge etc.

Things like a Lumagen do so much more that just provide a CMS (and a fully working, linear, speedy one, something that can't be said for every CMS) its a shame that most people can't seem to afford it or if they can want to live in oblivian that it won't raise their projector to a whole nother level. I know because I just lost my Lumagen to the effects of a lightening strike and it is being repaired. Its obvious how much my picture has deteriorated with the Lumagen working and doing its thing even though many of my projectors have a CMS.


No one doesn't NEED anything with respect to any calibration. One may want certain degrees of acccuracy measured in color calibration terms as De. People traditionally babble about how they after hours of tweaking have obtained des of less than one as if this is some special red badge of courage. Human beings really can't decern differences as small as De of 2 and acccepted Des are within the range of 2 or 3. And remember Des are only with respect to your probe which very likely the cheaper it is, is not very accurate even if calibrated at the probe factory or by its reseller.

The two hot cheap probes in the DIY calibration community are the Chromapure Display 3 Pro and the Spectracal C6. They are both essentially the same probe made by Xrite and our calibrated by Chromapure and Spectracal respectively. The C6 comes with some doodads. Costs somewhat more. But cheap probes that for best results should be caibrated against a high priced probe everytime it is used. Why use a cheap probe. The probes are very fast compared to much more expensive longer lasting for accuracy but very slow probes.

But I degress. If your probe is say 1 De off (you will never know) having a one De error on the other side may be in fact more accuracy than a measured De of 0. Point is quit when yo get a De of two, you are just wasting time trying to get any closer and you certainly don't err need it.

Thanks for correcting my mistake regarding the C6 and Display3, I forgot the C6 was Calman specific and cost more than the i1d3. What I meant was i1d3/c6 (and I have edited my post). I also meant that I didn't think HCFR was an option anymore compared to what am i1d/c63 with Calman or chromapure can offer.

I didn't mention the gamma autocalibration with the Calman JVC add-on because I was thinking full autocal, for which you need an external VP with the rs4x. But you are right to correct me, some users do manage to get gamma/greyscale autocal on an rs4x that way. Have you tried personally?

By the way, some professional users do NEED accuracy (and have the tools to measure it), but this is OT here.
post #1658 of 4435
I would suggest everyone saving the default Lens Shift position into memory until they are satisfied that they are done with the default position for testing (is that is even possible, I never tried it).

Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

have you watched any 3D BD's or just SBS previews so far?

No movies yet, I watched most all of the SBS previews. The glasses do not fit and they feel like they are drilling into my head. Why make $160 glasses that have absolutely zero size adjustments, also the coverage area of the glasses is way too small so that it's more like watching 75% of the screen in 3D. Really poor design aesthetically, but maybe they will fit people with skinny heads.

On the Fright Night preview, I really thought the first part of the preview in the neighborhood looked really awesome in 3D, felt like I was standing there. The only problem I see with 3D is a lack of consistency in depth.

I shouldn't say I will hate movies in 3D, that's pre-judging, I do like the effect at times when it is done right, but I'm worried about consistency and of course the ghosting is a big downer.

I'm not sure if when I see a little blur that is always ghosting or not, but I can tell on some scenes (like Tangled 3d free preview when he is riding the horse, severe ghosting to the point of outline effect and fringing). Then in the scene before that when he is dancing, it was very clear for the most part. Still a lot of times the 3D effect causes it to look blurry.

Also sometimes it looks fake, but I can see it being somewhat amazing for scenery for sure, and I like scenery disks, so I will enjoy it overall but maybe will need a DLP to really use it.
post #1659 of 4435
Thanks for the replys, I should have asked first...

Should the lens center be in the middle of the projector's case hole (where the lens is installed)? If I compare lens center to the hole center, looks like it's little off in horizontal direction. But what about vertical? Where is the default position? In the middle of maximum up/down positions?
post #1660 of 4435
It should ship in the default zero'd position. Did you already adjust the lens position after you received the projector?

The lens center is halfway up on the lens, and it should match up to the center position of the projected area vertically and horizontally if the position is at zero offset (no lens shift). So if you project a bullseye, the bullseye should be in the same position as the center of the lens to get back to zero lens shift.
post #1661 of 4435
So for a complete and total newbie to calibrating gamma/greyscale, you guys would recommend either the Chromapure Display 3 Pro or Spectracal C6? Where can a rookie learn how to calibrate gamma and greyscale? I have often thought of trying this out, but have not done so yet. Sounds like a great thing to learn especially if these drift with time.

Thanks
post #1662 of 4435
Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

It should ship in the default zero'd position. Did you already adjust the lens position after you received the projector?

The lens center is halfway up on the lens, and it should match up to the center position of the projected area vertically and horizontally if the position is at zero offset (no lens shift). So if you project a bullseye, the bullseye should be in the same position as the center of the lens to get back to zero lens shift.

Both my 40 and 45 shipped with the lens shifted in the extreme up vertical direction.
post #1663 of 4435
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toe View Post

Both my 40 and 45 shipped with the lens shifted in the extreme up vertical direction.

That's weird, mine shipped in the default position unless I am remembering wrong (perhaps).
post #1664 of 4435
Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

It should ship in the default zero'd position. Did you already adjust the lens position after you received the projector?

I already adjusted the lens position. But again: should the reset position be that where the lens is centered inside the case hole? I think that is the shipping position because lens cover is then centered.

Just take a look at the optics and you'll see that the whole lens moves, not just some parts inside it.
post #1665 of 4435
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toe View Post

So for a complete and total newbie to calibrating gamma/greyscale, you guys would recommend either the Chromapure Display 3 Pro or Spectracal C6? Where can a rookie learn how to calibrate gamma and greyscale? I have often thought of trying this out, but have not done so yet. Sounds like a great thing to learn especially if these drift with time.

Thanks

Calibration guide for dummies, it's not too hard to learn. You can buy an Eye One LT for $120 and use HCFR but it's hard to do gamut with it (but RS-45 has no CMS, so no worries really). The cheap eye one isn't as accurate as the more expensive meters, but it can still get the gamma perfect and it can also do gray-scale fairly well. It doesn't work under 20 IRE or so, so for the dark scenes gray-scale (getting color tint out of the blacks), you will have to go by eye, that is the main disadvantage of the eye-one.
post #1666 of 4435
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toe View Post

Both my 40 and 45 shipped with the lens shifted in the extreme up vertical direction.

I think you might be right. When I shelf mounted my 45 the first image was lighting up my ceiling.
post #1667 of 4435
Quote:
Originally Posted by TimoJ View Post

I already adjusted the lens position. But again: should the reset position be that where the lens is centered inside the case hole? I think that is the shipping position because lens cover is then centered.

Just take a look at the optics and you'll see that the whole lens moves, not just some parts inside it.

You can't judge it like that, you have to literally project a pattern that has a bullseye onto something. You could use the default green grid under the lens shift, but the center is a little hard to see exactly on this. If you stare at the lens parts to line it up you could damage your eyes, lol...

You need to get the bullseye to be exactly the same distance from the floor as the center of the lens, and also the same distance horizontally, you could measure from your wall I suppose. There are different ways to do it, you could put a white cardboard box in front of the projector on a table and then adjust lens shift until the bulls eye is the same distance above the table as the lens itself.
That way you don't have to do as much tedious measuring.
post #1668 of 4435
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toe View Post

So for a complete and total newbie to calibrating gamma/greyscale, you guys would recommend either the Chromapure Display 3 Pro or Spectracal C6? Where can a rookie learn how to calibrate gamma and greyscale? I have often thought of trying this out, but have not done so yet. Sounds like a great thing to learn especially if these drift with time.

Thanks

The Display Pro 3 and the Spectracal C6 are the same meters. Repeat after me, they are the same meters. One works with the Chromapure software and the meter is calibrated by Chromapure employees andthe C6 works with Spectracal and is calibrated by Spectracal employees. Each probe is licensed to work with a certain copy of the respective software.The C6 is more expensive and comes with some doodads like carrying case and tripod head. The choice is between what software you want to own, Chromapure or Spectracal and the various options each of those two provides. We sell both Chromapure and Spectracal and there are deals which change from time to time to save one some money. Best to call us to discuss options and deals. The companies are strong competitors.
post #1669 of 4435
Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 4 View Post

The Display Pro 3 and the Spectracal C6 are the same meters. Repeat after me, they are the same meters. One works with the Chromapure software and the meter is calibrated by Chromapure employees andthe C6 works with Spectracal and is calibrated by Spectracal employees. Each probe is licensed to work with a certain copy of the respective software.The C6 is more expensive and comes with some doodads like carrying case and tripod head. The choice is between what software you want to own, Chromapure or Spectracal and the various options each of those two provides. We sell both Chromapure and Spectracal and there are deals which change from time to time to save one some money. Best to call us to discuss options and deals. The companies are strong competitors.

Thanks Mark. I will give you a call when I take this step. Might not be until the New Year.

Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

Calibration guide for dummies, it's not too hard to learn. You can buy an Eye One LT for $120 and use HCFR but it's hard to do gamut with it (but RS-45 has no CMS, so no worries really). The cheap eye one isn't as accurate as the more expensive meters, but it can still get the gamma perfect and it can also do gray-scale fairly well. It doesn't work under 20 IRE or so, so for the dark scenes gray-scale (getting color tint out of the blacks), you will have to go by eye, that is the main disadvantage of the eye-one.

Would this be good enough then for just doing gamma/greyscale? Is it worth it to shell out more $$$ for the display pro 3/Spectracal C6? No CMS in the 45 so I am not worried about being able to do that.
post #1670 of 4435
I reseted the center so that the lens is now in the center of the case's lens hole. It was easy job, you just need a suitable plastic stick that just goes between the lens and the case hole and adjust lens until it's in symmetrical distance. I fail to understand coderguys' logic, but I'll read it again, maybe it all becomes clear to me (and I'll readjust to new center position..).

Few things I noticed:
Correct place to reset the lens to factory 0-position is in the Option menu (inside projector Service menu). Select there Lens Center and 'yes' option.

Wrong place is in the Adjust menu, there is Lens Position Reset. It overwrites default 0-position with the current lens position.

Both settings ask "reset data" so that gives you no clues which is the correct one...

That remote control hex-code for reset does not seem to work. (I have programmed other JVC hex-command that do work, so I think/hope this is not an user error)
post #1671 of 4435
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonStatt View Post

Mark, we have indeed been having a conversation on this both in this thread and the RS55 one. We are not quite sure yet what it does! It does not seem to elevate the black floor in the same way raising brightness does.

The original intention of the feature was for rooms where lighting changes. So for example, for daytime viewing, you would just drop into this Black Level, adjust until you can see the second box (then probably drop one click back), and hey presto, all presets will now be adjusted for your ambient lighting.

To be clear the test pattern is just two black boxes. You raise the control until the right black box becomes "different" to the left one. Then, you might want to drop one click back. Job done.

Thanks Jon. Sometimes its hard for me to keep up with all the threads especially at this time of years when we are shipping a lot of projectors and I am busy testing them etc.

I wonder how the control should be set for blackpit environments. I have just left it set to minimum once I measured long throw minimum iris on off and saw how raising the control lowered on off.

I much prefer using the old glasses to the new ones. I find the brightness increase of the new glasses to be indistinguishable to the new ones. This is not surprising since they are specified as letting 5% more light through which would equate to only seeming about a little over 2% brighter to ones eyes and switching between the old and new to my eyes makes no perceptable difference. The lenses in the old are much larger (taller) than the new and much less obtrusive into one fields of version. The new ones are rechargeable and have an on off switch. The old ones need a new battery occasionally but turn off and on automatically when receiving an IR signal from the emitter. I would gladly trade the inconvenience and expense of an occasional new battery for the higher field of vision. Perhaps I wil be attacked by certain friends for being critical of a manufacturer' accesory but really, there are many choices out there for glasses and really glasses are a personasl preference sort of thing. I watched a new 3D flick last night called 3D Safari. My wife and I spent 10 weeks shooting (photography and video) in Kenya and Tanzania many years ago and we were at 90% of the locations used for shooting in the movie. I did find the 3D very exagerated from being there. Whilein real life being able to get quite close to the animals, many real life shots are at some distance using telephotoes and 3D just isn't there to ones eyes if you are say more than 40 or so feet from an object. But very enjoyable none the less and brought back a lot of good memories. Minor ghosting from time to time but very infrequent.

I will repeat, the3D performance of the RS45 is much improved over the RS40. There is much less ghosting and the annoying flickering of the ghosting on the RS40 is gone.

Under extreme contrast conditions such as a very light sky with black lettering or an object against such background, minor ghosting is visable but for the most part ghosting is gone. Very very enjoyable 3D and really great 2D. I can't find the words to express how good this machine is.

I think it amusing to pick a 3D because it doesn't ghost. It just means picking a 3D with low contrast scenes. It has nothing to do with the 3D itself. Anyhow, with the JVC, ghosting is so infrequent, it can essentially be ignored and the content watched just for the contents sake and the immersive experience that content provides.
post #1672 of 4435
Quote:
Originally Posted by johng View Post

Thanks mouradb, you wouldn't happen to know what page of the manual this is explained?


As I mentioned in previous post, the manual sucks: it gives very superficial information and confusing since it covers all 3 JVC models.

Closed reference to user settings in on page 52.
post #1673 of 4435
Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 4 View Post

Thanks Jon. Sometimes its hard for me to keep up with all the threads especially at this time of years when we are shipping a lot of projectors and I am busy testing them etc.

I wonder how the control should be set for blackpit environments. I have just left it set to minimum once I measured long throw minimum iris on off and saw how raising the control lowered on of.

I much prefer using the old glasses to the new ones. I find the brightness increase of the new glasses to be indistinguishable to the new ones. This is not surprising since they are specified as letting 5% more light through which would equate to only seeming about a little over 2% brighter to ones eyes and switching between the old and new to my eyes makes no perceptable difference. The lenses in the old are much larger (taller) than the new and much less obtrusive into one fields oif version. The new ones are rechargeable and have an on off switch. The old ones need a new battery occasionally but turn off and on automatically when receiving an IR signal from the emitter. I would gladly trade the inconvenience and expense of a new batter for the higher field of vision.

I will repeat, the3D performance of the RS45 is much improved over the RS40. There is much less ghosting and the annoying flickering of the ghosting on the RS40 is gone.

Under extreme contrast conditions such as a very light sky with black lettering or an object against such background, minor ghosting is visable but for the most part ghosting is gone. Very very enjoyable 3D and really great 2D. I can't find the words to express how good this machine is.

I think it amusing to pick a 3D because it doesn't ghost. It just means picking a 3D with low contrast scenes. It has nothing to do with the 3D itself. Anyhow, with the JVC, ghosting is so infrequent, it can essentially be ignored and the content watched just for the contents sake and the immersive experience that content provides.

Mark, I disagree about the ghosting between the 40/45, but we could just be experiencing unit to unit variation. My 45 ghosts in the same scenes that my 40 did. The crosstalk canceler is useless as well IMHO from what I have experienced.

I also disagree about fllicker. If anything, I find flicker slightly more noticeable on the 45 for whatever reason. This may just be due to a new bulb, but there is certainly no improvement to my eyes in either of these categories at least with the 40/45 that I had/have.

Also, some have reported seeing MORE ghosting on the new models such as Joseph. His 45 is clearly ghosting more than his 40 doing A/B comparisons. I assume this is simply unit to unit variation as well.

Have you tried any 120hz content yet? I have not on the 45, but if its like the 40, ghosting is even worse than with blu ray. How much or little the JVCs ghost seems to depend on what you throw at it. Crank a depth slider up to MAX in a game for example will make the ghosting distracting it is so bad (at least on some games).

Also, it is still a TBD if ghosting can/will increase with age on some of these units like many of us experienced. My 40 got noticeably worse somewhere around 300-400 hours. Will these machines do the same thing? Time will tell.......

Thanks for the glasses info. I assume you did not see any difference in ghosting between the new/old glasses?
post #1674 of 4435
Does anyone has an explanation why (while playing a bluray movie) the player shows a rate of 24p while my RS45 shows 1080p60? My picture mode is default 'Film'?

The receiver is set to Auto.
post #1675 of 4435
Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 4 View Post

Thanks Jon. Sometimes its hard for me to keep up with all the threads especially at this time of years when we are shipping a lot of projectors and I am busy testing them etc.

I will repeat, the3D performance of the RS45 is much improved over the RS40. There is much less ghosting and the annoying flickering of the ghosting on the RS40 is gone.

You are pretty much the only one saying the 3D is better on any of the new models. I have not seen many say that. Did you compare them side by side? My rs40 does not flicker and only really shows ghosting on a few select titles. I am beginning to think it is total luck of the draw in getting a JVC that has good 3d performance. Their Q C is obviously lacking or they just don't care.
post #1676 of 4435
Quote:
Originally Posted by nohjy View Post

You are pretty much the only one saying the 3D is better on any of the new models. I have not seen many say that. Did you compare them side by side? My rs40 does not flicker and only really shows ghosting on a few select titles. I am beginning to think it is total luck of the draw in getting a JVC that has good 3d performance. Their Q C is obviously lacking or they just don't care.

Quite a few have reported unit to unit variation as far as ghosting goes. If somebody is seeing more or less ghosting on the new or previous gen JVCs I am betting is mostly dependent on that.
post #1677 of 4435
Quote:
Originally Posted by TimoJ View Post

I reseted the center so that the lens is now in the center of the case's lens hole. It was easy job, you just need a suitable plastic stick that just goes between the lens and the case hole and adjust lens until it's in symmetrical distance.

Looks like centering the lens in case's hole in vertical position is not the correct method since now vertical shift does not go low enough. I had to adjust center position a little lower to get the vertical shift to go where it used go.

So since the center is also used for adjustment limits, resetting the center to a wrong place may allow you to move optic's adjustments over the mechanical limits and possible cause damage to the gears...
post #1678 of 4435
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toe View Post

Both my 40 and 45 shipped with the lens shifted in the extreme up vertical direction.

Mine as well, I tested mine dead center...power up the unit and no picture

I thought my unit was DOA...well after a short while I looked up into the ceiling of my unfinished basement and saw the menu
post #1679 of 4435
If no-one buys my glasses, I may have to cannabilize them and create a headband, they don't fit.
What the heck was JVC thinking, that they'd be selling these projectors to little people with small heads.
post #1680 of 4435
I have only plaed with one RS45. I have it for calibration and review. I saw a few 40s last year. I am also compsaring 3D on some non JVC 3D capable machines. The RS45 I have which belongs to a customer who's name I won't review, is very good in 3D IMO.
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