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Official JVC X30 / RS45 owner's thread! - Page 7

post #181 of 4435
nd trade offs and within a particular price class different companies will make different trade offs. It is important to choose wisely and not necessarily rely on the opinion of another. Know the competency of those offering opinions and make choices based on the performance characteristics that are most important to you. These will not necessarily be those of another.

If you chose any of the JVCs, you will be buying from a fine compny who makes damn good projectors.
post #182 of 4435
Quote:
Originally Posted by kutlow View Post

uuuhhh oooooo

My wife stuffs her bra too... is that a bad thing?? Oh... you meant kleenex... never mind!

Quote:
Originally Posted by kutlow View Post

at 400.00 dollars cheaper than the sony 30 I hope JVC did in fact fix the bulb issue however the initial report says they didnt. We will have to wait and see. I dont know about you but sitting on the seat waiting for 30 miniutes to be able to watch a 3D movie will drive me and my guests nuts! I guess we could all arm wrestle of play spades. lmao

Or... stuff some stuff.
post #183 of 4435
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

Kelvin - Natural mode looks pretty good. Do you know which meter RickyJ using?

I have to come and hang out on the AV forums, between you, Jon & Manni, it's calibration discussion nirvana!

I can't remember the name of the meter but it's pretty high end as Ricky is the UK Chromapure dealer so this meter is used to create the offsets/calibration check for i1Pro meters for example.

Jon and Manni are the hard core calibrators compared to me. I haven't done mine for nearly 200 hours.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tigerfan33 View Post

I didn't see any lumen numbers posted on that review or did I miss it?

Probably aren't any as it's more a calibration report than a lumens and contrast check.
post #184 of 4435
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelvin1965S View Post

I can't remember the name of the meter but it's pretty high end as Ricky is the UK Chromapure dealer so this meter is used to create the offsets/calibration check for i1Pro meters for example.

It's X-rite Display 3. Prolly D3 Pro. The reports tells the name.
post #185 of 4435
Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

@ssabipro
That is a hard call, but can you really get the RS-40 much cheaper than a new RS-45, if so then yah, hard call, but I'd tend to want the new warranty and a fresh lamp. That said, you might want to wait for more data if you can afford to wait.

The below isn't directed at Zombie, as he has the RS-50 and not the RS-45, but this is generally what I have found to be true in these forums...

There are variances in convergence for sure, but the Sony's lens is said to have a focus uniformity issue, this means a default slight loss in sharpness even before the variance.

Couple more points about Sony hw30 vs. JVC RS-45

The RS-45 still should calibrate decent, and at closest throw the BEST MODE is around 1000 lumens!

For 3D, yes the Sony wins, but I think people are being BIAS'd against the JVC's 2D simply because they prefer the Sony in 3D and they want to believe their projector performs better in every category. For Sports, I'll give the benefit to the Sony here as well, but for movies, I don't believe it...
I have seen this happen over and over and over and over again in this forums. As a matter of fact, the number of times I've been disappointed by people in these forums making claims about a projector doing so many things better than another I can't even count on two hands. There is very little UN-BIASED info, it is there, but you really have to try hard to find it.

It is not a dig at anyone, I used to do the same thing when comparing projectors, you have to go into a certain state of mind to become un-bias'd, it's almost like acting, if you don't get your mindset right when comparing projectors, you will instantly favor one or the other and see things that don't exist, we've all done it before, even Art has done it. It's hard not to. I think what most people are seeing in POP on the Sony vs. the JVC is simply processing issues and calibration and sometimes brightness (when JVC lamp dimmed), not ANSI contrast. A DLP with much higher ANSI and a sharper picture is believable to have a little more POP in bright scenes, but for now I don't believe it when speaking of the Sony hw30 vs. the JVC. Do I believe the JVC OTB might look worse than the Sony OTB, yah I do, but after a calibration I don't think the Sony will beat the JVC in POP, I think the reverse will occur, because every time for me, the sharper projector wins in POP, I'm not taking the 1 in 10 bet that ANSI contrast matters going from 300:1 to 450:1.

When I had less experience with the 3 techs (DLP, LCD, LCOS), I had owned a Sony vw70, at first I thought it looked sharp like a DLP, but after you watch it for a while, your eyes start to see the difference, part of the issue is you need to watch the right type of content, and an untrained eye can think anything looks as good as anything else in certain content. Even at first I knew something bothered me about the older Sony, but it took me a little while to figure out that even though the TEXT was super-sharp, the convergence correction was overly-softening the VIDEO. The hw30 is better, but my point isn't that, it's just that a lot of people will say a lot of things about the JVC vs. the Sony, but you really need someone that doesn't have favoritism to look at both. So far I haven't seen anyone make the comparison of the RS-40 to the Sony hw30 or RS-45, so I cannot say for sure, but I'm leaning towards the JVC is going to be the better projector for movies.

Whenever I trust non-pro's (and sometimes even pro reviewers as well are guilty of it), and someone has a projector with a really good feature that does something really well, the projector tends to get over-hyped in other areas and it often turns out to be nothing more than a bunch of BS. I've seen this every time I buy and analyze a projector, turns out no matter how good a projector is, there are still flaws and I can still find one in the same price range that beats it in at least a couple categories, even if it loses in others, hence the tradeoffs.

excellent points Coder!! thanks again my friend
post #186 of 4435
Quote:
Originally Posted by krichter1 View Post

Yeah but you and I both know that has to be the worst one out today bro!

No doubt about it. Patagonia is the worst ghoster I have seen on my RS40. The problem is as my lamp aged, other titles started approaching that level (none got there, but they were working towards it). To me, this is the single biggest issue with 3d on the first gen JVCs (maybe this is fixed, but I doubt it). If the ghosting could stay as it was when the bulb was new, it would be tolerable.

The other problem for me Kevin is I have viewed my friends little Acer DLP a number of times now and seeing completely ghost free 3d gives you a different perspective on ghosting in general. What was minor ghosting to me before seems like a bigger issue now.

I still say anyone who is serious about 3d should look to DLP. I would love to go with a 2 projector setup once I find a DLP that fits my needs AND is priced in the range I want to spend for a 3d only projector. I hope I dont get kicked out of the band for saying that! I loved my RS40 for 2d (and is the reason I have a 45 coming), but the 3d aspect (on my 40 at least) is/was flat out broken all things considered IMHO Warm up time, flicker, ghosting, increased ghosting as the lamp ages.............uhhggg! DLP has NONE of these issues. Some of these issues such as warm up time are not exclusive to JVC however since Panny owners and even 1 95 owner is reporting "warm up time", but the point is that non DLP 3d has some serious drawbacks right now IMO.

Some wont agree with what I am saying which is totally cool.......this is just my opinion/perspective from what I have seen at this point.
post #187 of 4435
The main thing that I see, JVC made claims and advertises 3D with this projector.

If 3D is unwatchable because of ghosting, then that is false advertising.

The Problem is that there is no ghosting/crosstalk/flicker STANDARD. Whatever the Manufacturer deems acceptable is the standard. SbS and TnB are unwatchable on the x3.

So the question is what is acceptable? right now I am somewhere around 50 hours. I just watch Pirates 4. It did have a bit of ghosting, but only is some scenes. The flicker was bad. I was able to watch it but the issues are still present.

But I know from other reports and going through a bad bulb at some point 400-500 hours the 3d will be unwatchable, unless they fixed this bulb issue, if its even a bulb issue.
post #188 of 4435
so are you guys saying the jvc bulb issue is still there?
post #189 of 4435
Quote:
Originally Posted by kutlow View Post

so are you guys saying the jvc bulb issue is still there?

Don't know.....There are claims from JVC people at CEDIA this issue was fixed.

but contrary to that there have been people with 3 bulb failures.

I take everything with a grain of salt, but there are to many bulb issues still going around.
post #190 of 4435
Quote:
Originally Posted by space2001 View Post

Don't know.....There are claims from JVC people at CEDIA this issue was fixed.

but contrary to that there have been people with 3 bulb failures.

I take everything with a grain of salt, but there are to many bulb issues still going around.

pittyful, jvc must think we idiots?
post #191 of 4435
I guess we have to ask ourselves, are we AVS'ers in the minority of people buying projectors, if the answer is yes then why would JVC care what we say or think. As that would mean the majority of people buying their projectors don't read the news/ write-ups we do about their products on forums like these.
post #192 of 4435
maybe we need an occupy JVC stand?
post #193 of 4435
Quote:
Originally Posted by freebits View Post

It's X-rite Display 3. Prolly D3 Pro. The reports tells the name.

For the greyscale and gamma runs. The Orb optronics SP100 for the gamut measurements (apart from the user gamut).

Also the D3 had been profiled against the Orb before taking the greyscale and gamma runs
post #194 of 4435
Quote:
Originally Posted by tigerfan33 View Post

I didn't see any lumen numbers posted on that review or did I miss it?

I'll try and get the AEMC out later
post #195 of 4435
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toe View Post

No doubt about it. Patagonia is the worst ghoster I have seen on my RS40. The problem is as my lamp aged, other titles started approaching that level (none got there, but they were working towards it). To me, this is the single biggest issue with 3d on the first gen JVCs (maybe this is fixed, but I doubt it). If the ghosting could stay as it was when the bulb was new, it would be tolerable.

The other problem for me Kevin is I have viewed my friends little Acer DLP a number of times now and seeing completely ghost free 3d gives you a different perspective on ghosting in general. What was minor ghosting to me before seems like a bigger issue now.

I still say anyone who is serious about 3d should look to DLP. I would love to go with a 2 projector setup once I find a DLP that fits my needs AND is priced in the range I want to spend for a 3d only projector. I hope I dont get kicked out of the band for saying that! I loved my RS40 for 2d (and is the reason I have a 45 coming), but the 3d aspect (on my 40 at least) is/was flat out broken all things considered IMHO Warm up time, flicker, ghosting, increased ghosting as the lamp ages.............uhhggg! DLP has NONE of these issues. Some of these issues such as warm up time are not exclusive to JVC however since Panny owners and even 1 95 owner is reporting "warm up time", but the point is that non DLP 3d has some serious drawbacks right now IMO.

Some wont agree with what I am saying which is totally cool.......this is just my opinion/perspective from what I have seen at this point.


Oh no Todd I agree with you. In fact I had the opportunity this last summer to help a buddy install the little Sharp 17K and I was mildly impressed. Not so much from a 2D perspective but was left with an impression that should one of these come my way I could find a spot for it for 3D which was rock solid (albeit that is it's Achilles heal... not a good value for the price).

Both Geof and Owen made some good points about this years models and one could argue that JVC released this years model as a "do over" for last years mistakes (and give us a few Easter eggs to make us happy until next years redesign comes along).

That being said I'm still looking forward to this years release because as long as they correct CMS/Gamma/Lumens/Bulb life I will be a happy camper and live with the slight 3D shortcomings (I say slight because even on my RS50 at 300 hours still did a fantastic job w/ a well produced 3D disc (it's the bad one's it has problems with; but don't they all?!).

If the 3D is improved even a tad I'll be happy with this years effort!
post #196 of 4435
Quote:
Originally Posted by space2001 View Post

The main thing that I see, JVC made claims and advertises 3D with this projector.

If 3D is unwatchable because of ghosting, then that is false advertising.

The Problem is that there is no ghosting/crosstalk/flicker STANDARD. Whatever the Manufacturer deems acceptable is the standard. SbS and TnB are unwatchable on the x3.

So the question is what is acceptable? right now I am somewhere around 50 hours. I just watch Pirates 4. It did have a bit of ghosting, but only is some scenes. The flicker was bad. I was able to watch it but the issues are still present.

But I know from other reports and going through a bad bulb at some point 400-500 hours the 3d will be unwatchable, unless they fixed this bulb issue, if its even a bulb issue.

Are you using the new JVC 3D glasses?
Just wondering if the newer ones are the same or better.

Also, what is the speculation on why the warm up time of ~30 minutes is required.
For the bulb or panels to stabilize?
post #197 of 4435
Quote:
Originally Posted by 42Plasmaman View Post

Are you using the new JVC 3D glasses?
Just wondering if the newer ones are the same or better.

Also, what is the speculation on why the warm up time of ~30 minutes is required.
For the bulb or panels to stabilize?

The speculation is the response time of the JVC LCoS (DILA) panels is marginal at best and we do know that generally the response time for LCD and LCoS improves at higher temperatures. Thus the warm-up time is necessary to get the LCoS panels hot enough for the response time to improve to the point that a new image is more or less able to fully replace the previous image (i.e., for the other eye) fast enough to avoid excessive crosstalk (ghosting). As the lamps get older and start to dim they probably are also less effective at heating the LCoS panels and as a result the crosstalk becomes a issue even after a warm-up period.
post #198 of 4435
Quote:
Originally Posted by space2001 View Post

But I know from other reports and going through a bad bulb at some point 400-500 hours the 3d will be unwatchable, unless they fixed this bulb issue, if its even a bulb issue.

The projector hasn't even been widely released yet... what other "reports" are you referring to that leads you to the 400-500 numbers? It sounds like you are speculating based on the experience a minority of users had on last year's model. I share your concerns about lamp life on the RS45 but other than waiting for data from a large sampling of users there is just no way to know what possible lamp issues there may be.
post #199 of 4435
I'm about the order the RS45 and would appreciate it if any of you could answer a couple of questions. In normal lamp mode, how loud is the Projector? I will be using an existing ceiling mount and it will be directly over a sofa, so operating noise may be an issue for me.

Also, what are the height, depth, length, and weight of your projector? I haven't been able to obtain this info from JVC's web-site.
Thanks in advance?
post #200 of 4435
Quote:
Originally Posted by johng View Post

I'm about the order the RS45 and would appreciate it if any of you could answer a couple of questions. In normal lamp mode, how loud is the Projector? I will be using an existing ceiling mount and it will be directly over a sofa, so operating noise may be an issue for me.

Also, what are the height, depth, length, and weight of your projector? I haven't been able to obtain this info from JVC's web-site.
Thanks in advance?

Instructions here

http://uk.jvc-service.net/public/doc...&Model=DLA-X30
post #201 of 4435
Quote:
Originally Posted by 42Plasmaman View Post

Are you using the new JVC 3D glasses?
Just wondering if the newer ones are the same or better.

Also, what is the speculation on why the warm up time of ~30 minutes is required.
For the bulb or panels to stabilize?

I am using the X3 and using original glasses not the new ones. have a 30 minute warm up time helps the ghosting, but it not like its night and day.
post #202 of 4435
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Jones View Post

The speculation is the response time of the JVC LCoS (DILA) panels is marginal at best and we do know that generally the response time for LCD and LCoS improves at higher temperatures. Thus the warm-up time is necessary to get the LCoS panels hot enough for the response time to improve to the point that a new image is more or less able to fully replace the previous image (i.e., for the other eye) fast enough to avoid excessive crosstalk (ghosting). As the lamps get older and start to dim they probably are also less effective at heating the LCoS panels and as a result the crosstalk becomes a issue even after a warm-up period.

Ron, this seems like a reasonable explanation. I swapped in a new lamp the other night into the RS50 and once it's warmed up, there is a noticeable difference in ghosting vs. the 400 hour lamp.

I am curious to hear from the new 45/55 owners if this is still the case. I'd like to see the L / R Stereo images at cold boot and then again @ 30 mins.

http://www.tridef.com/support/3d-test-images.html

I don't see this on the HW30, it's pretty much ready to go right after turning it on. It might reduce 5-10% after a few minutes, but it's relatively stable from a cold start up.
post #203 of 4435
Quote:
Originally Posted by mnn1265 View Post

The projector hasn't even been widely released yet... what other "reports" are you referring to that leads you to the 400-500 numbers? It sounds like you are speculating based on the experience a minority of users had on last year's model. I share your concerns about lamp life on the RS45 but other than waiting for data from a large sampling of users there is just no way to know what possible lamp issues there may be.

A minority of people reporting bulb issues on last years models?
post #204 of 4435
Just got a call from Mike.....
...... they have started shipping the 45's.

Mike mentioned he already received a few with the bulk following soon. He also would have enough to fill all the AVS pre-orders.

I should get mine soon. My CC is now being charged.
____
Axel
post #205 of 4435
Quote:
Originally Posted by WTS View Post

I guess we have to ask ourselves, are we AVS'ers in the minority of people buying projectors, if the answer is yes then why would JVC care what we say or think. As that would mean the majority of people buying their projectors don't read the news/ write-ups we do about their products on forums like these.

There are many people like me who are mostly silent observers. You pros dissect the performance in many ways. Which is duly noted by everyone interested in.. I am sure (hopefully) JVC pays attention to the stuff brought up by these forums. But again, some topics may not be as important to a regular Joe like me.. For eg. I don't even know what FI in 3D mean.

Ghosting is something i learnt in these forums, and even flicker for that matter..
post #206 of 4435
Quote:
Originally Posted by Axel View Post

Just got a call from Mike.....
...... they have started shipping the 45's.

Mike mentioned he already received a few with the bulk following soon. He also would have enough to fill all the AVS pre-orders.

I should get mine soon. My CC is now being charged.
____
Axel

I guess you were the lucky guy who took my place.
post #207 of 4435
Benito at AVS just made my day!!!!! My RS45 will be shipping shortly!!!!!

Is it weird that my heart was pounding when I heard Benito's name at the other end of the phone, LOL? No one tell the wife.....she'll never understand.

He also helped me out with screen selection (first projector), now I just need to look at my budget and figure out which way I'm going! Carada, Da-Lite, or Stewart are at the top of my list, but all at completely different price points. Which way is everyone else going? I only need a 106" screen, and I have a lot of flexibility in projector placement, as close as 13' and as far back as 15-16' if necessary, ceiling mounted. Speaking of which, I need a mount too!

Decisions, decisions.....thanks Benito!
post #208 of 4435
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ericglo View Post

I guess you were the lucky guy who took my place.

soooorrryyyyy

____
Axel
post #209 of 4435
Quote:
Originally Posted by krichter1 View Post

Oh no Todd I agree with you. In fact I had the opportunity this last summer to help a buddy install the little Sharp 17K and I was mildly impressed. Not so much from a 2D perspective but was left with an impression that should one of these come my way I could find a spot for it for 3D which was rock solid (albeit that is it's Achilles heal... not a good value for the price).

Both Geof and Owen made some good points about this years models and one could argue that JVC released this years model as a "do over" for last years mistakes (and give us a few Easter eggs to make us happy until next years redesign comes along).

That being said I'm still looking forward to this years release because as long as they correct CMS/Gamma/Lumens/Bulb life I will be a happy camper and live with the slight 3D shortcomings (I say slight because even on my RS50 at 300 hours still did a fantastic job w/ a well produced 3D disc (it's the bad one's it has problems with; but don't they all?!).

If the 3D is improved even a tad I'll be happy with this years effort!

Hey krichter1, give me a call.
Reply
Reply
post #210 of 4435
Thank you, Ripley. That's what I was looking for.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ripley161 View Post

Instructions here

http://uk.jvc-service.net/public/doc...&Model=DLA-X30
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