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Official JVC X30 / RS45 owner's thread! - Page 122

post #3631 of 4435
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fatshaft View Post

Please tell us HOW you mostly eliminated ghosting...please
Sorry I can't help you with tearing...my unit has no tearing whatsoever.
Thanks

I would love to hear this as well. The crosstalk canceler is a total joke so he cant be referring to that.
Edited by Toe - 7/5/12 at 4:25pm
post #3632 of 4435
Cannot get rid of ghosting in movies with the current technology, but I'm also interested in what he did to reduce it if that has some truth to it?

I've been testing my multi-depth parallax adjustment theories yesterday, and so far I see no fault in them, but admittedly I'm not an expert in this. I still think there is no way to eliminate all all that much ghosting on the JVC in movies (maybe?), but in gaming the potential should be there. We need the coordinate data to apply corrective transformations to the parallax by having a user run through a set of test patterns or adjust it in-game, in movies this data does not exist (well at least not accessible in the media formats we have).
Edited by coderguy - 7/6/12 at 4:50am
post #3633 of 4435
People talk about ghosting with home projectors, and while I do not plan on watching any 3D with my JVC (3D isn't a big deal for me), I will say this.

We were on vacation in the Los Angeles area last week and I took my youngest to see the Disney/Pixar movie Brave at the El Capitan Theatre in Hollywood. This is one of the most amazing theaters out there. Many movie premieres happen here, and the theater was just upgraded to be a showcase theater for the new Dolby Atmos sound setup. Everything was amazing, HOWEVER.... I noticed ghosting during the previews and part of the movie while my brain started to just ignore it.

So if ghosting exists in a premier level theater, how can we ever expect it to really be totally gone in the home theater market?
post #3634 of 4435
I have a x30 with massive ghosting and one cheap dlp with zero ghosting so it can be done...
post #3635 of 4435
Quote:
Originally Posted by nickbuol View Post


So if ghosting exists in a premier level theater, how can we ever expect it to really be totally gone in the home theater market?

It's already completely gone with a number of the 3D DLP's out there, some as cheap as the Acer 5360 for only $500. We'll never find a single hint of ghosting on the BenQ W7000 3D DLP. It's just not possible with this projector, even in the toughest scenes.

The SXRD and LCD projectors (HW30, VW95, Epson 5010) already took a big leap over the JVC's this year with faster panels and noticeably less ghosting in comparison.

JVC can do it, they should be well aware of what the competition offered this year. I just hope they don't have to sacrifice any of the excellent 2D quality to improve their 3D next year. A ghost-free (and flicker-free) JVC with best in class native contrast would be great to see.
post #3636 of 4435
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

JVC can do it, they should be well aware of what the competition offered this year. I just hope they don't have to sacrifice any of the excellent 2D quality to improve their 3D next year. A ghost-free (and flicker-free) JVC with best in class native contrast would be great to see.

Ditto. Sacrificing 2D is a no-no. 3D is nice but nowhere near as important as 2D. If JVC can get the ghosting to a MINIMUM I'll be happy with 3D...it doesn't have to be perfect for me. Also improved brightness in 3D would be nice. However, 2D is why JVC is so popular with projector enthusiasts and I hope they continue to improve it without sacrifice.
post #3637 of 4435
I'm not going to focus on what-if's or if next year's are better, I want to see what we can do now with what we have. Kind of burnt out on the speculation (no offense). I just want to see if I can find a way to get a tool to do multi-depth parallax for gaming. Even if just that one problem can be worked around (and so far my testing shows it can), then we need to get on NVIDIA to release a more sophisticated parallax tool. I'll be going in there in a moment to start pushing them. I was not even a gamer much, but interactive 3D can be pretty fun.
post #3638 of 4435
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

It's already completely gone with a number of the 3D DLP's out there, some as cheap as the Acer 5360 for only $500. We'll never find a single hint of ghosting on the BenQ W7000 3D DLP. It's just not possible with this projector, even in the toughest scenes.
The SXRD and LCD projectors (HW30, VW95, Epson 5010) already took a big leap over the JVC's this year with faster panels and noticeably less ghosting in comparison.
JVC can do it, they should be well aware of what the competition offered this year. I just hope they don't have to sacrifice any of the excellent 2D quality to improve their 3D next year. A ghost-free (and flicker-free) JVC with best in class native contrast would be great to see.

Let me ask you a question. If JVC was able to do that, would you even look at another projector?
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post #3639 of 4435
Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5 View Post

Let me ask you a question. If JVC was able to do that, would you even look at another projector?

not likely, you know i'm a big fan of the 2D on the RS55 (e-shift was the big star this year for me).

If the 3D could match the 2D, it would be projector nirvana.

ps. if you know something that can't be disclosed due to NDA, put me first in line for the fall pre-order. biggrin.gif
post #3640 of 4435
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

not likely, you know i'm a big fan of the 2D on the RS55 (e-shift was the big star this year for me).
If the 3D could match the 2D, it would be projector nirvana.
ps. if you know something that can't be disclosed due to NDA, put me first in line for the fall pre-order. biggrin.gif

Exactly..............Put me 2nd on the preorder list IF this is the case! tongue.gif I would love to quit dreaming about adding a DLP as well which is still on my mind constantly!
Quote:
Originally Posted by SED <--- Rules View Post

Ditto. Sacrificing 2D is a no-no. 3D is nice but nowhere near as important as 2D. If JVC can get the ghosting to a MINIMUM I'll be happy with 3D...it doesn't have to be perfect for me. Also improved brightness in 3D would be nice. However, 2D is why JVC is so popular with projector enthusiasts and I hope they continue to improve it without sacrifice.

For me, ghosting would have to be nearly non existent for EVERYTHING, not just blu ray which is bad enough as it is with the current models. Gaming in particular seems to be an absolute torture test for non DLP 3d displays, and the JVCs choke BIG TIME in this area. It will be interesting to see how much (if any........eek.gif) improvement the next round of JVCs get as far as 3d. There was virtually NO improvement going from the 40/50/60 to the 45/55/65 this year, but if history is any indication, we will get a redesigned model since JVC seems to be keeping the same basic design for 2 years which we are on right now with the current models. Ghosting needs to drastically reduce for ALL sources, flicker needs to be eliminated, more brightness would of course be very welcomed............I hope it happens, but not holding my breath. If I can get my damn Stewart screen sold along with my Marshall guitar amp which is the only way I can justify buying a 2nd projector on my budget, I am planning on splurging for the BenQ W7000 and staying with the 45 for movies/concerts, OR upgrading to the new JVC (selling the 45 and using the 7000/new JVC combo).
Quote:
Originally Posted by nickbuol View Post

People talk about ghosting with home projectors, and while I do not plan on watching any 3D with my JVC (3D isn't a big deal for me), I will say this.
We were on vacation in the Los Angeles area last week and I took my youngest to see the Disney/Pixar movie Brave at the El Capitan Theatre in Hollywood. This is one of the most amazing theaters out there. Many movie premieres happen here, and the theater was just upgraded to be a showcase theater for the new Dolby Atmos sound setup. Everything was amazing, HOWEVER.... I noticed ghosting during the previews and part of the movie while my brain started to just ignore it.
So if ghosting exists in a premier level theater, how can we ever expect it to really be totally gone in the home theater market?

The problem for me is now that I have seen ghost/flicker free 3d on a DLP (friend of mine has the Acer), my JVC is just not cutting it. Ghost/flicker free 3d is here NOW with single chip DLP so all other projector techs are compared to this benchmark in these particular areas. As far as the JVC goes, it fails miserably all things considered in the ghosting/flicker department vs a single chip DLP. frown.gif
Edited by Toe - 7/6/12 at 3:58pm
post #3641 of 4435
I for one can't believe JVC can't fix this ghosting with an updated firmware...I love so much my projector and have recently started to watch 3D and am frustrated to see all this ghosting. Had lots of friends a family over and it's embarrassing to the max when you need to explain to them that I was to stupid to know how bad it is!

For me 3D is awesome. What a wonderful experience! I wouldn't want to see a projector right now that DOES NOT ghost cause I'd want to shot myself!
Thank God this projector (RS45) freakin' rules in the 2D department!

Regards,
post #3642 of 4435
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toe View Post

Exactly..............Put me 2nd on the preorder list IF this is the case! tongue.gif I would love to quit dreaming about adding a DLP as well which is still on my mind constantly!
For me, ghosting would have to be nearly non existent for EVERYTHING, not just blu ray which is bad enough as it is with the current models. Gaming in particular seems to be an absolute torture test for non DLP 3d displays, and the JVCs choke BIG TIME in this area. It will be interesting to see how much (if any........eek.gif) improvement the next round of JVCs get as far as 3d. There was virtually NO improvement going from the 40/50/60 to the 45/55/65 this year, but if history is any indication, we will get a redesigned model since JVC seems to be keeping the same basic design for 2 years which we are on right now with the current models. Ghosting needs to drastically reduce for ALL sources, flicker needs to be eliminated, more brightness would of course be very welcomed............I hope it happens, but not holding my breath. If I can get my damn Stewart screen sold along with my Marshall guitar amp which is the only way I can justify buying a 2nd projector on my budget, I am planning on splurging for the BenQ W7000 and staying with the 45 for movies/concerts, OR upgrading to the new JVC (selling the 45 and using the 7000/new JVC combo).
The problem for me is now that I have seen ghost/flicker free 3d on a DLP (friend of mine has the Acer), my JVC is just not cutting it. Ghost/flicker free 3d is here NOW with single chip DLP so all other projector techs are compared to this benchmark in these particular areas. As far as the JVC goes, it fails miserably all things considered in the ghosting/flicker department vs a single chip DLP. frown.gif

EDIT: The other thing the new models need is some sort of gaming mode, or reduced lag in general. I am not a big gamer usually, but I have become an SSX addict over the last few months. The last week I have been playing SSX on my Panny plasma upstairs since my RS45 is out of commission for the time being and I would swear the game feels more responsive on the Plasma with its lower lag. I am entirely open to this being placebo, but it honestly feels just a bit more responsive with the lower lag vs my RS45. Certainly not night/day, but enough that it was noticeable. Again, this could all be in my head tongue.gif, but SSX feels just a bit more responsive on the plasma. Tell me if I am crazy................biggrin.gif
post #3643 of 4435
I have no problem with them improving 3D...but please, please don't mess with the 2D of these projectors! Not concerned with the end of the year releases. Hopefully by next year's models JVC will have made a nice leap across the board. I'm completely satisfied at the moment and have zero interest in other projectors. However, there's a 99.9999% chance my next projector will be another JVC. The next one will be the descendant of the RS55. biggrin.gif
post #3644 of 4435
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joesyah View Post

I have no problem with them improving 3D...but please, please don't mess with the 2D of these projectors! Not concerned with the end of the year releases. Hopefully by next year's models JVC will have made a nice leap across the board. I'm completely satisfied at the moment and have zero interest in other projectors. However, there's a 99.9999% chance my next projector will be another JVC. The next one will be the descendant of the RS55. biggrin.gif

Oh man, I totally agree. If better 3d comes at the expense of the 2d in any way, it is not worth it. Love the 2d on these machines!
post #3645 of 4435
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toe View Post

EDIT: The other thing the new models need is some sort of gaming mode, or reduced lag in general. I am not a big gamer usually, but I have become an SSX addict over the last few months. The last week I have been playing SSX on my Panny plasma upstairs since my RS45 is out of commission for the time being and I would swear the game feels more responsive on the Plasma with its lower lag. I am entirely open to this being placebo, but it honestly feels just a bit more responsive with the lower lag vs my RS45. Certainly not night/day, but enough that it was noticeable. Again, this could all be in my head tongue.gif, but SSX feels just a bit more responsive on the plasma. Tell me if I am crazy................biggrin.gif

Yes, definitely a gaming mode would be really great since I do like to play games sometimes. Seeing that the Sonys have a gaming mode and the JVCs don't is annoying. Still, movies are my number one priority though. I think faster panels will have a real positive impact on lag and motion which means that it would be wise if JVC includes them. I dunno, I think JVC should read what it's end users and potential customers want and keep us satisfied. That makes good business. Hopefully they read these forums and threads. smile.gif

And you know what would be awesome? Not dealing with bulbs anymore!! Lets get that LED tech or laser or something that lasts much longer than bulbs. I think the time has come to ditch bulbs and JVC should make that happen.

So lets see what I'd like: More contrast and black levels that rival CRT projectors, faster panels for better motion and little or no ghosting in 3D, brighter 3D, gaming mode for less lag, better and smoother frame interpolation, the ability to use FI in 3D, 4K inputs, and LED/laser instead of bulbs. Got that JVC? biggrin.gifwink.gif
Edited by SED <--- Rules - 7/6/12 at 5:50pm
post #3646 of 4435
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fatshaft View Post

I for one can't believe JVC can't fix this ghosting with an updated firmware..................................,

The source of the 3D crosstalk/ghosting with the JVC projectors is their LCoS (DILA) display chips simply have too long a response time. They are much slower in fully transiting from black to white than going from white to black. The higher the refresh rate (e.g., operating at 120Hz vs. at 96Hz) makes this response time limitation all that much worse for 3D crosstalk/ghosting. At this point the response time is marginal fpr 3D operation at 96Hz (i.e., 48Hz per eye) and clearly inadequate at 120Hz. This hardware limitation cannot be corrected via firmware and will require a successful research and development effort leading to a redesign of the LCoS chips. There also seems to be some unit-to-unit variations in the DILA chips so some projectors display more 3D crosstalk/ghosting than others. Also the response time of the DILA chips is temperature senitive with longer response times when cool and faster response time when hot (this same temperature relationship has been noted by some Sony projector owners). At this point its not clear if or when JVC will be able to complete such a redesign while (hopefully) still retaining the industry leading native black levels and on/off contrast ratio that no one wants to see degraded for 2D viewing.
Edited by Ron Jones - 7/6/12 at 5:56pm
post #3647 of 4435
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

not likely, you know i'm a big fan of the 2D on the RS55 (e-shift was the big star this year for me).
If the 3D could match the 2D, it would be projector nirvana.
ps. if you know something that can't be disclosed due to NDA, put me first in line for the fall pre-order. biggrin.gif

What I was getting at, a projector like that would come very close to the holy grail of projection systems for many of us and I am sure that projector engineers know this. If it could be done pretty simple then they would be doing this. In other words it must be a hard thing to accomplish using DILA panels. As many of you have said, you would not want to go backwards on 2D just to get better 3D. I am sure the projector engineers know this and probably feel the same way.
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post #3648 of 4435
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toe View Post

Exactly..............Put me 2nd on the preorder list IF this is the case! tongue.gif I would love to quit dreaming about adding a DLP as well which is still on my mind constantly!
For me, ghosting would have to be nearly non existent for EVERYTHING, not just blu ray which is bad enough as it is with the current models. Gaming in particular seems to be an absolute torture test for non DLP 3d displays, and the JVCs choke BIG TIME in this area. It will be interesting to see how much (if any........eek.gif) improvement the next round of JVCs get as far as 3d. There was virtually NO improvement going from the 40/50/60 to the 45/55/65 this year, but if history is any indication, we will get a redesigned model since JVC seems to be keeping the same basic design for 2 years which we are on right now with the current models. Ghosting needs to drastically reduce for ALL sources, flicker needs to be eliminated, more brightness would of course be very welcomed............I hope it happens, but not holding my breath. If I can get my damn Stewart screen sold along with my Marshall guitar amp which is the only way I can justify buying a 2nd projector on my budget, I am planning on splurging for the BenQ W7000 and staying with the 45 for movies/concerts, OR upgrading to the new JVC (selling the 45 and using the 7000/new JVC combo).
The problem for me is now that I have seen ghost/flicker free 3d on a DLP (friend of mine has the Acer), my JVC is just not cutting it. Ghost/flicker free 3d is here NOW with single chip DLP so all other projector techs are compared to this benchmark in these particular areas. As far as the JVC goes, it fails miserably all things considered in the ghosting/flicker department vs a single chip DLP. frown.gif

I think several RS55 and RS65 owners would disagree. The 4K and the added brightness were big improvements, especially for those with larger screens and close viewing distances.
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post #3649 of 4435
Hey everyone here are the settings I am using and like I said these seem to minimize the crosstalk pretty well across all my 3d movies (I have tried 15 titles). As mentioned it is critical to let the projector warm up before any serious viewing. I am using the monster vision glasses with the latest VIP firmware. Delay currently set to 41970 and Duty Cycle at 97. Parra lax on the JVC is set to 1 and crosstalk cancel white at -6. All NR off, lens Aperature at 0 and lamp power at normal. Hopefully this helps some of you out. While it isn't perfect Id sayit is more than possible.

P.s. Does anyone have a contact number for JVC. I wanted to call them about the image tearing I have but could only find an email contact form. thanks!
post #3650 of 4435
Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5 View Post

I think several RS55 and RS65 owners would disagree. The 4K and the added brightness were big improvements, especially for those with larger screens and close viewing distances.

Mike, sorry my post must not have been clear. I was referring ONLY to crosstalk/flicker when I made that statement which seems to be the general consensus and is my experience as well going from a 40 to a 45. Some even feel that the new models took a step BACK in the ghosting area compared to the first gen 3d models. There were certainly other areas where big improvements were made between the 40/50/60 and 45/55/65 as you mention.
post #3651 of 4435
Edit: double post
post #3652 of 4435
I guess I would have to see this in person because I never owned a projector and one of my options was the rs45.. Im trying to wait it out for release of the newer models but not sure when they would hit the streets.
post #3653 of 4435
IMHO, for gaming I kind of have my doubts that it would require a redesign of the LCOS chips, I really think that all we need is a multi-depth parallax adjustment at the video card level. Load up the NVIDIA TV play TEST pattern, and watch the linearity of the ghosting on the letters (amount of ghosting grows shrinks perfectly linearly as the letters move along the Z AXIS). Even on a runway in FSX, the middle painted line in the runway does a "ghost split" like a perfect triangle in 3D mode, and if I adjust the parallax to match the farthest point on the runway or the nearest point or the middle, the 3D effect is NOT lost despite where the adjustment is made (altered, but not lost).

The internal parallax correction cannot fix it because the formula is only linear if we have more than one DEPTH Value and two reference points, and only the video card has all the data it needs to do the correction in three dimensions, the others are applying the correction in 2d based on a single Z-axis (which is only useful for a projector that has ZERO ghosting, not on the JVC). NVIDIA just hasn't created this tool yet to be adjustable at multiple Z-axis, I'm assuming (hoping) they will eventually.
Edited by coderguy - 7/7/12 at 3:18am
post #3654 of 4435
What sucks is there is not many places in my area in Northeast Ohio that have projectors on display so I can view and see what I like..


Its going to be a toss of a coin soon or later for me and im sure I will be happy with it . I did the same thing with my sharp 70 inch and its fine lol
post #3655 of 4435
If are concerned about 3D quality, I would not buy the JVC, it's that simple.
post #3656 of 4435
More of the concern is probably lag issues with gaming. But then again I am months away from getting this done so only time will tell.

Going to start painting here within the next few weeks is my plan.
post #3657 of 4435
Become a simmer, then lag won't matter. You can do 6 windows or more simultaneously on a projector.

Top 3 - Sim Farm, Sim Train, Sin City
Bottom 3 - Flight Sim, Space Sim, Eco Sim

Once you've masted the 6 sims at once routine in 3D and can fly a plane while doing it without crashing, what else is there?
post #3658 of 4435
I moved my Gaming PC within HDMI cable range of my theater room so I can play FPS games on a 120hz monitor and flight sim's and a few other games where the lag isnt as noticible on the JVC.

My dream is for next years JVC to accept a 120hz input over Display Port or DVI and have a game mode but the likelyhood of that happening is slim to none! I wish the consumer projectors had accessory cards you could install for different types of input methods similar to higher end professional units.
post #3659 of 4435
Has anyone with similar FW update issue that I am having? This is the error screen I got after couple of tries, all network connection seems OK and followed instruction to the T, and the front light on my X30 turned Orange as mentioned in the instruction but that is it and eventually this timeout error returns. Any clue? mad.gif

363
post #3660 of 4435
Quote:
Originally Posted by breadvan View Post

Has anyone with similar FW update issue that I am having? This is the error screen I got after couple of tries, all network connection seems OK and followed instruction to the T, and the front light on my X30 turned Orange as mentioned in the instruction but that is it and eventually this timeout error returns. Any clue? mad.gif
363

Greetings,

I updated the FW on my RS55 this weekend and it went like clockwork in about 13 or 14 minutes. Can you tell us exactly what your LAN settings are on your PC/laptop as well as have you disabled the wireless adapter (on your laptop/PC) and disconnected the HDMI cables running to the projector?

Regards,
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