Official JVC X30 / RS45 owner's thread! - Page 125

Just to clarify --- are you suggesting that RS45 owners were feeding their projectors with a 4:4:4 color space, but when they added the Darbee it would no longer work?

I find it entirely frustrating that JVC's support can't answer these kind of technical questions. They basically told me, try all the different settings. If they work, they the projector can handle them.

Thanks kind of a glossed-over answer, tho.

What do you do if your screen isn't on the list?

I have Seymour Center Stage XD. Just pick something similar in gain? Seems more complicated than that. As an example, the Carada Classic White is supposed to have a 1.0 gain and the X30/RS45 set to Mode A. For their brilliant white (1.4) and high contrast gray (0.8) they say to leave it off.

The Seymour XD is supposed to have a gain of 1.2 so it doesn't really fit the mix. I could just keep going down the list until I find something with a 1.2 gain, but again, it seems that it is probably more complex than that.

My guess is that it really has to do with color too.

Any ideas on what should be chosen in my case?

You guys that are updating your firmware, what is the update providing for you?

I don't know where the release notes are as I never bothered to update mine yet, but I found this from earlier in the thread:

1) Fixed the problem of remaining picture mode display on screen when pushing [picture mode button] of remote controller.
2) Fixed projector inoperative under certain conditions.
3) Deleted the message for fine adjustment when calling Lens memory.
4) ?? -- I think there was one more thing maybe, but did not see it posted.

Thanks Coder for the info. Mike had indicated that there may have been some sort of fix for those who have CIH screens but he wasn't exactly sure what it was. It sounds like item #3 is what I'm seeing once the lens memory screen change has completed. If I choose no to not fine tune the menu opens up.

I've been playing around with my RS45 set-up using the Spears and Munsil disc.

I have an Oppo 93 BD player... which sends the audio and video to my Elite 21THX AVR.

Question:

In the contrast section of the Spears and Munsil disc, I can successfully set the contrast on the first pattern (black bars on top of screen, white bars on bottom of screen) so that the first white bar (on left) can only faintly be seen. The next contrast test are the 4 squares (White, red, blue.. etc).
I cannot make any adjustments on the contrast setting on the RS45 that will allow me to see the shaded squares on the inside. The Spears and Munsil online guide says this means the projector is clipping. HOWEVER, If I go into the Oppo 93 picture settings, I can make some alterations to the contrast settings there that allow me to see the shaded parts of the squares.


Hmmm... I'm a little lost.


I readily admit that I'm not an expert, yet(!), on projectors ;-). But could someone talk me through this and tell me what actions I should take? Or what this all means?

I would think the XD would fall under the A category, similar to the other acoustic screens on the list, as most of them are white and of similar gain, around .8-1.0. I have the centerstage XD as well and I'm going to give A a try.

If your screen is not on the list I would advice you to run a grayscale, gamma and color gamut for each screen mode and pick the one with the best initial results.

Next time when I calibrate my screen, I'll measure what differences the screen adjust makes in fL, grayscale, gamma, color, hue and color luminance.

Go to the hdmi settings of the jvc and set hdmi from normal to super white.

This is a big issue on every projector, only led laser (I hope) would remedy this. Those calibrators used to do normal TVs only (LCD, Plasma, etc), where there is almost no issue over time (once a year is enough now), and aren't really used with projectors, where you need to do new calibrations every 100~200h due to lamp issues.

So lets hope in future projectors overcome this lamp issue asap. As for calibrators, they need to know the "in deep" differences between TVs and projectors.

Yah, I know some of the calibrations I came across were generic ones done by "TV Shops". The worst was when the image was below 12 fL and the gamma was set too high below 20 IRE, the image was way too dark in some scenes with no detail.
Edited by coderguy - 7/22/12 at 4:00pm

Interesting... just out of curiosity... what does this do?

I was just searching through the threads... the above quote is a great set of questions....

I'm looking for the best settings to go in concert with my Oppo 93.

I'm a little confused about the color space question... I'm guessing the person posing this question was talking about the color space setting . I talked to Oppo and they said leave it on YCbCr (4:4:4). However, I am interested in more detail on the HDMI input selection (i.e. super White)... Is super white the setting to be used with Blu Ray players?
Edited by tsand72 - 7/22/12 at 4:21pm

I have never messed with an Oppo, but the most important thing is to match the player setting with the video projector. The only way to know for sure it is not improperly altering the image, is to check it with clipping patterns. You can get the patterns from Spears and Munsil, DVE, or the AVS Rec709 disk. You want to check the ramp patterns and the squares.

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1344913/rgb-vs-ycbcr-where-is-the-best-place-to-do-the-color-conversion-player-or-display

As far as Super White, from what I remember there are only a few blurays encoding with that info. Some said you could see some VERY minor enhanced detail in things like clouds, but I never tested it myself. It's really not a big deal, the biggest thing is to get the absolute black level matched and to ensure no clipping with the test patterns. I don't think you will notice much difference regardless of your settings as long as you get the clipping issues taken care of.

Added:

This article explains it well:
http://www.audioholics.com/tweaks/calibrate-your-system/hdmi-black-levels-xvycc-rgb

.
Edited by coderguy - 7/22/12 at 5:35pm

Okay, here's a dumb question:

Could you clarify what you mean by "match the player setting with the video projector"?? Want to make sure what you mean by that.


When I played the spears and munsil disk, I could eliminate clipping by going into the Oppo 93 Picture Settings and lowering contrast. Without doing that, I was unable to properly see the images that S and M said I would be able to to see if the Contrast was set correctly.

Made me nervous to go into the player and start messing with the settings like that...

^^^^ I might have just found the answer to my own question....

By matching, do you mean that the color space on the Oppo and the color space on the JVC need to match?

For example, if I set the color space on the Oppo to YCbCr 4:4:4, then I need to go into the settings for the JVC and set the Color Space to YCbCr 4:4:4?

I believe that the JVC has an "Auto" color space setting... perhaps I should just set the color space setting to Auto???

The Oppo folks told me they suggested setting the Oppo player to 4:4:4

Generally, it is a highly debated topic because 4:4:4 and 4:2:2 convert differently between different devices. Yes, I would generally leave it at AUTO as long as the clipping patterns work out, that way you do not have to change it back and forth for different sources (it will auto-detect, although you can memorize it per source I suppose). 4:4:4 on the Oppo is probably the best thing to do I am guessing.

Again though, if you get the clipping out and the colors look right and everything checks out, I have my doubts that any of this stuff makes all that much difference, maybe a tiny bit. Usually some devices will just fail in certain modes or conversions and then you have to fiddle with and re-measure the clipping and ramp patterns until it comes out right. That is my experience anyhow.

I just joined the owners club of a RS45 and have a semi-funny story.

I wasn't planning on buying my projector yet, but Mike at AVS temped me with a good price so I went ahead and got it. So it arrived yesterday and I took the box down to the theater (not finished yet) and unboxed it and sat it on my riser (no mount yet). In true guy fashion I plugged it in and started playing around with lens shift and sorting through menus while throwing the image on the BLACK front wall. I haven't gotten the screen built yet. I had a roll of Seymour XD waiting for the build (122" wide scope).

Well the pic on the black wall wan't horrible but I thought, "hey you have a large amount of left over poly batting" so I tacked up the poly batting to the false wall frame and tah dah, crappy white screen! That was followed by me yelling upstairs, "hey, someone bring me a bluray movie". I pulled the Panasonic 500 out of the rack and plopped in The Dark Knight. After a little adjusting to frame the poly batting, there was a large movie!!!! But no sound. So a 6' jumper of RCA cables ran over and plugged in the RCA cable to the front of my receiver. SHAZAM! I had sound now! So another quick yell up the stairs to everyone to "get down here NOW" and we were all watching about 15 minutes of the movie. I was grinning from ear to ear and my wife and daught said, "It looks fuzzy!"

Well duhhhh, it's projected on poly batting! Either way seeing this tease has really motivated me to get going on the theater. Can't wait for it to be done. And for the record, I didn't think it looked "horrible" on the poly batting.
Edited by BroncoSport - 7/24/12 at 9:41am

I think I have about 2 hours on my projector from projecting onto a concrete wall
I didn't go as far as hooking up sound, I was happy enough with the picture

Can't wait to get it on a screen

We showed (I didn't watch) 3 full movies and a ton of demo material (that I did watch) with our RS45 projected onto a brown painted and textured wall until we got the screen up.

I was impressed both before and after getting the screen.

I actually owned a sub-$100 Elite screen at one time that looked worse than a regular painted wall. A regular painted wall was sharper than the screen.
My HP screen beats my wall in sharpness though (I would hope so). It was that free Elite screen PJ manufacturer's often give away as a promo with a PJ purchase (Viewsonic, and some others). The screen weave pattern made the image worse than the wall, it was funny. I would guess if someone did a correct DIY paint job for HT, then it might be as sharp as a high quality screen.
Edited by coderguy - 7/25/12 at 11:33pm

I haven't been on the site for months and I certainly haven't kept up with this thread, but I just thought I would mention that we absolutely love our RS45, even for watching satellite TV.

This absolutely astounds me as I had much lower expectations when we bought it.

We have a high end Samsung 55" LCD TV upstairs and I and others always considered it to have a gorgeous picture, but now I can't even bring myself to watch content on it. Its become the kids TV. The RS45 is our "go to" display machine for any serious media viewing.

has there been any news on the new jvc pj coming out in Dec?

So far nothing. I'm guessing we have to wait until September 5th in CEDIA or a little before.

It can be Nov too.

Very unlikely anyone will see them in November, but anything is possible

ehhh ets not talk about next year's model when some of us haven't unboxed this year's model

They will be announcing new models at Cedia in September.

When they will be out is hard to say. They have been on time before, meaning November/December. But more often than not things slip into early the following year.

I remember when I ordered mine and I was telling you I didn't care what place I was in line as long as it came in a few months....of course they were relatively on time this year

Now next time when I actually have an operating theater, I want to be first

Isn't that always the way? When you need it, you cannot get it. When you don't...it is knocking on your door!